The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas

[dancrilis]

Spoiler: (tenative) Alignment

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Good Characters
Haley, Elan, Shojo are Chaotic Good	#936	2014/01/12

Wouldn't the above suffice for the chaotic good column - are multiple entries needed?

*EDIT: this post has the quoted text edited to reflect my intention.

[Jasdoif]

Wouldn't the above suffice for the chaotic good column - are multiple entries needed?

I believe you're talking about broadening this entry to cover Elan and Shojo, as well as Haley:

Haley is Chaotic Good

#936

2014/01/12

Facts about cosmological forces are largely unrelated to what people feel about themselves and others. Haley feels she is not "Good enough" based on a complex set of personal experiences and insecurities; the universe still dumps her in the Chaotic Good box, next to Elan and Shojo.

Anyway, the individual quotes do address different points that specifically brought alignment into question in the first place: Haley's insecurity, Elan's different treatment of Tarquin and Nale, and Shojo's dearth of story relevance. There's value in being able to link to a post that makes a specific case like that.

What's everyone else think?

[Peelee]

I like the individual links because it covers the reasoning for each in addition to confirmation, which is super helpful when I'm trying to find a quote to use in discussion.

[Throknor]

I like the individual links, because it covers the reasoning for each in addition to confirmation, which is super helpful when I'm trying to find a quote to use in discussion.

I hate wasting space for just "me too", but I wouldn't want it to look like it is unsupported.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

My plan was to move the existing chaotic government entry into the "general" area of the Alignment section with some rewording; and put the proposed Shojo entry with the rest of the Good character entries. So the overall Alignment section would look like:

Spoiler: (tenative) Alignment

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General Information
The Morality of Deception "Taking advantage of someone is neither Good nor Evil, inherently. What matters is what you take advantage of them for."	#981	2015/04/28
"Lovable" Does Not Mean "Not Evil" Case in point, Thog.	#936	2014/01/11
Genocide is Always Evil See also here.	#935	2013/12/24
Alignment and Authorial Intent What does the Giant mean when he says X character is Y alignment?	#903	2013/07/23
🍍🍌Azure City's Chaotic Government Azure City's chaotic government (under Shojo) was still good, not evil.	#891	2013/06/06
Elan and Nale's Parentage How did it affect their alignment? The Giant can't fully answer because of events yet to be revealed. Elan spared Nale's life because of Elan's understanding of what it means to be good.	#815	2011/11/18
Alignment and Environment Enor and Gannji were not operating wholly outside the ethical framework of the Empire of Blood. This doesn't change the nature of their acts but does mean that the acts are not as indicative of their overall alignment as some might suppose.	#812	2011/10/25

D&D Alignment
Usefulness of the alignment system in D&D games A great aid for teaching new inexperienced players how to roleplay.	#921	2013/09/29
"Lawful" vs "Legal" More here and here.	#891	2013/06/03
D&D's Alignment System Thoughts on how it could be improved.	#838	2012/02/18
About Lawful Alignments On being Lawful in D&D and the OOTS.	#281	2006/02/15

Specific Characters
Evil Characters
Everyone on Tarquin's Team is Evil And Tarquin is kind of like the Elan of their team. See also: here.	#934	2013/12/08
Redcloak is Evil	#830	2012/01/23
Tarquin is Lawful Evil	#763	2010/12/07
Belkar is Chaotic Evil	#251	2005/12/01
Nale, Sabine, and Thog are all Evil	#142	2005/01/20
Good Characters
Haley is Chaotic Good	#936	2014/01/12
Elan is (Still) Chaotic Good Elan let Tarquin fall because he was using a different interpretation of Chaotic Good.	#936	2014/01/11
🍌Shojo is Chaotic Good	#891	2013/06/05
Durkon is Lawful Good	#798	2011/07/27
Neutral Characters
Girard is Chaotic Neutral	#980	2015/04/25
Who Else is Neutral A long list of Neutral characters in the comic. See also here.	#903	2013/07/22
Enor & Gannji are True Neutral	#812	2011/10/24
V is True Neutral (and Always Was) "Vaarsuvius was never Neutral Good"; strip #11 does not suggest otherwise.	#801	2011/08/17

That seems fine to me. It does make more sense the quote about Shojo (a character) is in the character section while the quote about his government (not a character) isn't. And also what Peelee said.

[Jasdoif]

Well, I suppose there's little sense putting this off any longer...Looks like strong support on Shojo's alignment, and little in the way of condensing other alignment entries together, so!

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Proposed Additions/Updates for Index 6.5
🍍🍌Azure City's Chaotic Government Azure City's chaotic government (under Shojo) was still good, not evil.	#891	2013/06/06	Updated at my discretion.
🍌Shojo is Chaotic Good	#891	2013/06/05	No vote required, will be included.

With nothing eligible to be voted on, there will be no vote; the Index has been updated.

---

Any bets on if a new Patreon Q&A is going to come out in the near future, now that I've given up on waiting for it to do these two entries in the same update?

[Fyraltari]

New batch of answers is here!

Spoiler: the answers.

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1.) Kevin Bumgarner: Was the dream V had in #623 an actual event that happened, or was V just having a bad dream based on their decision to run from battle?

Yes, it’s intended to be a memory. In the D&D rules that OOTS is loosely based on, elves don’t actually sleep—ever—and therefore do not dream. They simply enter a trance and meditate to review old memories, deciding what to keep and what to allow to fade. That’s what V is doing in that part, except they’re getting stuck on one particular memory. I used that as a riff on the classic technique of opening a scene with a dream sequence, to go back and show something that we didn’t get to see the first time.

2.) Michael Curley: Has Elan told his mother about Nale's death? Or is he waiting to see her in person?

I don’t think he would have had the opportunity to do so yet. He can’t cast sending the way Durkon and Vaarsuvius can. I suppose he could have asked one of them to send it for him, but his mother doesn’t know either one. So that would result in a strange elf or dwarf contacting her telepathically out of nowhere to tell her that her son is dead, which seems like the sort of thing Elan would be emotionally sensitive enough to avoid doing.

3.) River Psmythe: For the MitD I’ve seen a lot of speculation out there on what it is, and my two questions tie into that. I’m hoping these can be answered without spoiling anything. I realize saying who would be, so I’m hoping only for yes/no here. First, has anyone out there that you’ve seen guessed right? Second, has anyone out there made a guess or come to the wrong conclusion but made you think ‘that’s better than what it really is, even for a second?’

Obviously I cannot answer the first question. If I say yes, then everyone will go scouring through the internet to get a fixed list of what he could or could not be, and if I say no, then they will throw out all the existing guesswork and start over. Either way, I’ll be spoiling something. And besides which, I don’t really read what people are speculating in the first place and I’m not about to start, so I have no actual way of knowing.

For the second question: No, because if he was something else then it wouldn’t fit everything that is going to happen and has already happened. It’s not a guessing game I added to the strip just for extracurricular fun and games, it’s part of the story. There’s no answer that’s better than what he is because everything written for the last 15 years has been written with that answer in mind.

4.) [bɜnd͡ʒəmɪn t͡ʃəɹkaskʰi]: what made you decide to add a new character to the main cast so late in the story?

I presume you’re referring to Minrah, in which case the answer is clearly, “I didn’t, really.” Minrah is traveling with the team and helping them out, but she is not a member of the main cast, which is and has always been numbered at six. She’s closer to Blackwing or Bandana—an important ally, but not a main protagonist. The difference is, I’m not going to be delving deeply into Minrah’s backstory and she’s not going to get a huge amount of solo spotlight time to work through whatever personal issues she needs to sort out in her life. To be honest, there’s not going to be enough room for that from here on out. She has an important role to play, certainly, both in terms of her working relationship with Durkon and some specific events that will be happening, but the story is not really going to focus on her development.

So the answer to the qustion of why I decided to add her, regardless of her character status, is that bringing her in gave me a unique opportunity to look at my main characters from the outside and see how they’ve changed since the beginning of the comic. And to tell new jokes—it’s always good to have a fresh face with a new point of view so I’m not rehashing the same gags over and over.

5.) joel kramer: The artwork upgrade for the Julio Scoundrél story in SSaDT bears a striking similarity to that in Utterly Dwarfed. Did you use that short story as a test for the art upgrade in the main strip or did the main strip upgrade idea come first?

I suppose more the former, but I wasn’t actually thinking of it that way. I was casting about looking for a way to make the art more special for the Julio story and came up with that solution. Some of the techniques I used in that story I really liked, so when I was getting frustrated by the limits of my regular style toward the end of Blood Runs in the Family, I started thinking about porting the more helpful parts over to the main strip. But not all of it; the shadows in the Julio story would’ve been a nightmare to start using on every panel of the color comic, and I didn’t really like how the speech balloons came out. So yeah, I guess it was a test bed, but it wasn’t an intentional one at the time.

6.) Leo Barlach: How often do you go back to old comics when writing new ones? For example, to connect Hylda and Durkon's plot last book, how much did you need to check comics from the first book?

Less often than I should, because I keep making mistakes where I think my memory is better than it is. But certainly yes, for something like Hilgya’s reappearance, I thought it was important to go back and look at exactly what was said and done in that original scene. I don’t know how to really quantify that, other than to say I try to do it more often than I think I should and end up doing it less than I actually need to.

7.) K G: How much thought do you put into your characters’ names? I was wondering at what stage in the creative process you assign a name to a new character, and the extent that the name is influenced by that character’s prospective personality. In particular, I was thinking of Vaarsuvius’s similarity to Vesuvius, but I’d also be interested to know if there’s any significance in the more common names.

I am much more influenced by how names sound than by any meaning for them. The important thing is for names to sound different from one another so it’s hard for readers to confuse characters. After all, people butcher the name Xykon constantly (Zykon, Xyklon, Xkon) but everyone still knows who they’re talking about because no other character in the strip has a name even close to his. My big mistake in this category came early, when I named the starting dungeon the Dungeon of Dorukan even though I had Durkon in my main cast.

For the name Vaarsuvius, no, I wasn’t specifically trying to reference Mt. Vesuvius. I was trying to come up with something that sounded elaborate and vaguelly formal, in order to differentiate V from the other one-word name character, Elan. I wanted V to have a unique first syllable and a name that didn’t look the same as anyone else’s in print. Any connection to anything in the real world most noted for exploding in a overwhelming display of fiery obliteration is a pleasant coincidence, though I suppose it’s possible that as V progressed, that aspect of their character may have been influenced by their name rather than vice versa.

8.) Erin S.: Something that's been nagging me for a while; did you intend to make V "genderqueer" (quote marks because of the explanation from the first round of questions) from the start, or was it just a happy accident?

It was more or less a happy accident. I’ve told this story before, but it basically came about because early readers of the first few strips disagreed on V’s gender, and rather than correct anyone, I latched onto and ran with that. So if you define “the start” as the literal very beginning, then no, but if you definie it as “the first 5 or 6 strips” then yes. And no, it doesn’t matter what I thought V’s gender was before those readers said anything, because it turns out I was wrong.

Even though I played it for laughs at times during the early days, I always tried to make it so that V themselves was never the butt of the joke; it was always Belkar looking like a fool for caring so much, or Roy getting frustrated because he’s uncomfortable with ambiguity. I don’t know if I succeeded at that, but that was my intent. Generally, readers’ feedback on V has always been very positive, though I do think some of the jokes from those early days probably wouldn’t stand scrutiny today. At this point, though, it’s just become something that’s a fact about the character, who I think is far more defined by their actions during the story than their gender presentation.

9.) Abraham Kotev emet: Would you consider publishing new comics on a constant pace? Once a week, for example? I would love it if I could expect when the next comic strip will be released. Sometimes it's couple of days and sometimes it can arrive to two weeks.

This is a question that I have addressed many times in the past, but I realize that not everyone sees everything I’ve written, and also some readers are relatively new to the comic and may not have been around years ago when I used to talk about it more frequently, so I think it’s important that I give a definitive answer: What you’re suggesting is not something I can actually do.

I can’t flip a switch and speed up the pace of creating comics. I publish them as soon as each one is finished, give or take some time differences (I don’t generally update in the middle of the night). So if a strip takes two weeks to show up, that’s because it took two weeks to make. That might be because the art was particularly complex, especially for new scenes with splash panels or the like. It might also mean the script was unusually difficult, which can itself take several forms. The current strip as of this writing, #1208, is a good example of a situation where the entire conversation occurring needed to be continually finessed to make sure it was saying exactly what I wanted it to say. Sometimes I will complete an entire comic and then realize that something else needs to happen before those particular events to give them context, so I put that aside and start a new page—which often leads to that second page coming out faster, unless I see yet more problems in the interim and need to rework it. The fact that there is no opportunity for editing the story after each installment is released means that I must make sure all of the work of fitting it into my overarching tale needs to happen during the creation of that individual strip, rather than during a traditional “editing pass,” and there’s no way to put a fixed limit on how long that process takes. It varies wildly.

Now, you might think to yourself, “But such-and-such comic produces pages at a higher pace!” Well, I’m not the author of such-and-such comic, I’m the author of this one. I fully concede that other creators are far more efficient at producing finished artwork than I am, even artwork that is significantly more detailed than mine, and further I am willing to stipulate that I would probably be more successful and happier and just generally better off if I could match their creative output pace. I can’t. I wish I could. After literally every comic, I say to myself that I’m going to post the next one in two or three days, and it only rarely works out that way. There are a lot of reasons why, ranging from physical limitations related to my health to economic circumstances such as the need to simultaneously be working on paid products in order to pay my bills. Maybe, if I was perfectly healthy and independently wealthy, I would produce faster. But maybe not; it is not unheard of for me to spend a whole day staring at my script looking for a punchline. And maybe I could build up a buffer of completed strips if I didn’t post any for a few months, but I try to do that every time I take a hiatus and what usually happens is that I obsess over the art and words too much and take a month to finish each one. Sometimes, the only thing that forces me to stop fiddling with a comic and push it out the door is the pressure of knowing how many days it’s been since I updated.

So there’s no way for me to speed the process up other than being a different person with different issues, at which point this would probably be a different story. If you want this exact story, I’m sorry to say that you’re stuck with this particular messed-up brain attached to this specific beat-up thumb, and they’re both already working at their maximum sustainable pace.

10.) Gregory Pratt: Any thoughts on trying to get OOTS back into a magazine again?

No, I don’t think so. I’ve tried it twice, first with Dragon Magazine and then with Gygax Magazine, and I think I don’t really enjoy the format. I can’t tell much of a story with a comic that only comes out one page per month where not every reader will necessarily have bought the previous issue, and I certainly can’t write one as complex as the online comic without the ability for readers to reference an archive. It was fun when I did it, but I’m really a lot more interested in the story than thinking up one-off gags over and over, especially when I can’t hang them on the ongoing plot.

11.) Tomer Mlynarsky: Why did Nale hate Malack so much as opposed to the rest of Tarquin's gang?

This question is sort of a category error, in that it presumes that the variable between how much Nale plotted the murder of Malack versus how much he plotted the murder of everyone else was the strength of his feelings about Malack, rather than the difficulty of the murder itself. In other words, Nale likely hated them all equally but spent more effort planning Malack’s death because Malack was harder to kill. Given his well-documented love of intricate plans, it’s reasonable to assume that he viewed it as a puzzle that was enjoyable to solve in its own right.

12.) Brian Leybourne: Will there ever be another not-in-the-main-storyline book (such as 0, -1, 1/2 and D) or will OOTS as a whole be wrapping up at the end of this book?

Both things can be true. OOTS as a whole will be wrapping up at the end of this book, but that’s still a while off and there are a few more events that need to be recounted before that happens. I suppose I also can’t rule out some stories that don’t get released until after the main series ends, but there are no plans for a full-on spin-off or sequel or what have you.

13.) Andrea: We love the Order of the Stick coloring book from the Kickstarter campaign. Would you ever be willing to create more coloring pages for your youngest fans, even just as PDFs on Gumroad?

That’s a great idea. I feel like I should also point out in the meantime that all five existing sets of the A Monster for Every Season line of print-out game miniatures include a black-and-white line art version that can be used for coloring. Each set has 300-400 different monsters you can print out and color. And then you can cut them out and fold them up into little figures you can play with. I mean, your kids. Your kids can play with them. Wink.

I vote we include the whole lot.

[Schroeswald]

This is what I get for having a life, I miss stuff like this, don't worry, I'll do better and from now on never stop checking the forums ever. Since Fyraltari simply reproduced the answers, I'll keep the tradition up (and also cause I have my opinions and whatever)

1.The dream-like thing V is having in 623 is a memory V is going over. I'll go with a weak yes cause its a bit ambiguous.
2. Elan hasn't really had the chance to tell Elan's Mother about Nale's death. I haven't seen many people talking about this as a question so I'll go with a light no.
3. Their is no choice for the MitD better than what he is, because he has to be what he is for what has happened and is going to happen. I feel like similar stuff is already there so add this to that if its there, if I'm wrong yes.
4. Minrah is not a main character, she is an ally, who was added to show a different perspective on the core six (and tell new jokes). Clear cut yes.
5. Rich deliberately ported some of the techniques from the Julio Scoundrel story into the main comic. Not really sure.
6. Rich looks back at older comics more than he thinks he needs to but less than he should. Light no
7. Rich chooses names based on how they sound rather than literal meaning, some stuff on V's name in particular. Maybe, idk
8. Information on V's gender and the history. I think most of it was said before but the bit about trying to avoid V's gender being the butt of the joke is interesting as an add-on.
9. Stuff on updating and Rich's pace. Yes, its interesting with a enough new information.
10. Rich isn't interesting in putting OOTS in a magazine again because he couldn't really tell a story. Maybe?
11. Nale planning to kill Malack was so complex because it was harder than killing the rest of the Vector Legion, not because he hated him more. This is interesting definitely yes
12. Stuff about side books, I'm not sure enough on what its saying to decide if its good enough maybe
13. Rich thinks more coloring pages would be a great idea (and in the meantime, a Monster for Every Season does have line art where you can color stuff). I'd say yes

[Ortho]

Any bets on if a new Patreon Q&A is going to come out in the near future, now that I've given up on waiting for it to do these two entries in the same update?

Off by only three days...


And I second Fyraltari's vote: nothing's really worth excluding, so let's include them all.

[Emanick]

New batch of answers is here!



I vote we include the whole lot.

1.Yes for the answer about V's dream. It's story-related enough and interesting, and it clarifies something that's potentially confusing. I wouldn't be terribly sorry to not see it indexed, though.
2. Yes - interesting insight into Elan's decision-making process. Basically, if something is story-related and interests me, it's an automatic yes from me.
3. No, everything here has already been said somewhere else.
4. Yes; reading this really helped me understand how Rich sees Minrah's status in the story, and clarified why she was introduced at such a late juncture.
5. I'm not voting on this one. It doesn't interest me, but I can imagine why it might interest other people. Basically, I can't tell whether it would be important to people who care about this sort of thing.
6. No. I don't think this is a particularly significant question or answer.
7. Yes, definitely. How an author thinks about names and what priorities he has in mind when choosing them is very interesting for lots of aspiring writers (or at least it is to me). It's also interesting, and probably surprising, at least to most readers, that the connection between Vaarsuvius and Vesuvius doesn't seem to be deliberate.
8. Yes, with the proviso that, as Schroeswald suggested, it should be an add-on to an existing entry. Most of the information is old but there's some new stuff, most notably the statement that Rich "was wrong" about V's gender being fe/male early on, and Rich's intent in how he wrote the jokes about V's gender.
9. A weak yes, but only as an add-on to an existing entry. There's very little new information here, although some of the details are new.
10. Yes - it's notable that Rich doesn't think OOTS will appear in a magazine again, and it's also interesting to hear why he thinks that.
11. Yes. A bit weird, because it contradicts what I thought that comic was saying fairly clearly - that Nale had a specific hatred for Malack above and beyond any hatred he had for the rest of the Vector Legion - but because it does that, it clearly provides new information about an important character, so it obviously merits inclusion.
12. No, there isn't any new information. The only potentially useful new stuff there is that Rich still hasn't ruled out other side books, but since we already have confirmation that he hasn't ruled that out from not-that-long-ago, I don't think it's worth including this. Also, as Schroeswald said, it's not the most clearly-written answer, so honestly, including it might obfuscate more than it would enlighten.
13. No, this is basically just telling a fan that he likes her idea and reiterating some information that is already public.

[Fyraltari]

This is what I get for having a life, I miss stuff like this

I’m not sure how to react to this.

[Schroeswald]

I’m not sure how to react to this.

I wasn't the very first person to inform the thread of the post because I was doing something besides focusing only on the forums, and that means I did something wrong, I can never not be the very first person to post in the thread about it.

[Gwynfrid]

Most of these would be good additions.

12. No, there isn't any new information. The only potentially useful new stuff there is that Rich still hasn't ruled out other side books, but since we already have confirmation that he hasn't ruled that out from not-that-long-ago, I don't think it's worth including this. Also, as Schroeswald said, it's not the most clearly-written answer, so honestly, including it might obfuscate more than it would enlighten.

Most of the answer boils down to "maybe", so it's not super useful. Still, I don't think we have a quote that explicitly says the Giant has no plans for a sequel. This alone is worth including, imo.

I think we can include everything as-is, except:

3. Redundant with the "The MitD Reveal is a Crucial Part of the Story" quote and its add-on.

8. Redundant with the "V's Gender History" quote. I'm not convinced the additional remarks in yesterday's answer are important enough to warrant an add-on.

9. This isn't entirely new, but is the clearest version of the answer to a question that pops up pretty regularly. I suggest adding this answer, and making the existing "A Buffer of Strips Wouldn't Help" quote an add-on to it.

13. Isn't about the comic.

[Jasdoif]

13. No, this is basically just telling a fan that he likes her idea and reiterating some information that is already public.

13. Isn't about the comic.

I'm not even sure how I could make a meaningful entry out of that one...I'm pretty sure allusions to the Giant's various A Monster for Every Season posts are exactly the kind of thing Rule B-3 is supposed to prohibit, and the nonanswer is (obviously) not substantive.

---

Anyway, assuming that gets resolved somehow....

Spoiler: Summary

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#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Voters
1	"Was the dream V had in #623 an actual event that happened, or was V just having a bad dream based on their decision to run from battle?" (A memory.)	5	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against:
2	"Has Elan told his mother about Nale's death? Or is he waiting to see her in person?" (No, he hasn't.)	4	1	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against: Schroeswald
3	"For the MitD I’ve seen a lot of speculation out there on what it is, and my two questions tie into that. I’m hoping these can be answered without spoiling anything. I realize saying who would be, so I’m hoping only for yes/no here. First, has anyone out there that you’ve seen guessed right? Second, has anyone out there made a guess or come to the wrong conclusion but made you think ‘that’s better than what it really is, even for a second?’" (Not answering, and that can't happen.)	3	2	Vote-able	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050 Against: Emanick, Gwynfrid
4	"what made you decide to add a new character to the main cast so late in the story?" (Didn't, though Minrah still has important roles.)	5	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against:
5	"The artwork upgrade for the Julio Scoundrél story in SSaDT bears a striking similarity to that in Utterly Dwarfed. Did you use that short story as a test for the art upgrade in the main strip or did the main strip upgrade idea come first?" (Not deliberately, but technically yes.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Gwynfrid Against:
6	"How often do you go back to old comics when writing new ones? For example, to connect Hylda and Durkon's plot last book, how much did you need to check comics from the first book?" (Not often enough.)	3	2	Vote-able	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Gwynfrid Against: Schroeswald, Emanick
7	"How much thought do you put into your characters’ names? I was wondering at what stage in the creative process you assign a name to a new character, and the extent that the name is influenced by that character’s prospective personality. In particular, I was thinking of Vaarsuvius’s similarity to Vesuvius, but I’d also be interested to know if there’s any significance in the more common names." (Most important that they sound distinct from each other.)	4	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against:
8	"Something that's been nagging me for a while; did you intend to make V "genderqueer" (quote marks because of the explanation from the first round of questions) from the start, or was it just a happy accident?" (Not at the very beginning, but close.)	4	1	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick Against: Gwynfrid
9	"Would you consider publishing new comics on a constant pace? Once a week, for example? I would love it if I could expect when the next comic strip will be released. Sometimes it's couple of days and sometimes it can arrive to two weeks." (No.)	5	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against:
10	"Any thoughts on trying to get OOTS back into a magazine again?" (Not likely to happen.)	4	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against:
11	"Why did Nale hate Malack so much as opposed to the rest of Tarquin's gang?" (He didn't, really.)	5	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid Against:
12	"Will there ever be another not-in-the-main-storyline book (such as 0, -1, 1/2 and D) or will OOTS as a whole be wrapping up at the end of this book?" (Maybe another sidestory book after the main story ends, but nothing's planned.)	3	1	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Gwynfrid Against: Emanick
13	"We love the Order of the Stick coloring book from the Kickstarter campaign. Would you ever be willing to create more coloring pages for your youngest fans, even just as PDFs on Gumroad?" (Advertising copy.)	3	2	Vote-able	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050 Against: Emanick, Gwynfrid

Spoiler: Breakdown by Poster

Show

Voter	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13
Fyraltari
Schroeswald
mjp1050
Emanick
Gwynfrid

[137beth]

1.) Kevin Bumgarner: Was the dream V had in #623 an actual event that happened, or was V just having a bad dream based on their decision to run from battle?

Huh, I just realized I've been wildly misinterpreting that scene all along. I thought it was showing a current scene of Azurites who have somehow survived the last few months in Azure City without being caught, and that the person who thinks they bumped into V didn't actually do so (since V is long gone). I thought it was just to set up the joke of the soldier saying "I hope you choke," followed by V gasping.

It never occurred to me that it was a flashback to something that V was remembering.

[Peelee]

Huh, I just realized I've been wildly misinterpreting that scene all along. I thought it was showing a current scene of Azurites who have somehow survived the last few months in Azure City without being caught, and that the person who thinks they bumped into V didn't actually do so (since V is long gone). I thought it was just to set up the joke of the soldier saying "I hope you choke," followed by V gasping.

It never occurred to me that it was a flashback to something that V was remembering.

Panel 1 of 623 is more or less a direct continuation of panel 8 of 452.

[hamishspence]

True - but the link's wrong. This is 623.

Panel 1 of 623

[Sir_Norbert]

Ooh, we voting? I know I'm not a thread regular but I'd like to be in your chart with the smiley faces.

Spoiler: My votes, if it counts:

Show

1. No, it's about a single strip that was almost 600 strips ago, not interesting at this point.

2. Yes, new information about recent in-comic events.

3. Undecided, it's similar to earlier answers on the MitD but it's nice to have a couple of points stated this clearly.

4. Yes, relevant to current arc of the comic.

5. Yes, interesting background information.

6. Yes, interesting background information.

7. Yes, same.

8. Yes (could be added to the current entry on V's gender). Makes things really clear.

9. Yes, unfortunately people do ask this kind of thing a lot.

10. Yes

11. Yes, fills in some important background.

12. No, redundant with "There will be seven books", which we have.

13. No opinion.

[theangelJean]

Ooh, we voting? I know I'm not a thread regular but I'd like to be in your chart with the smiley faces.

Not an official vote yet, but it's actually even more influential - and yes, your opinions get to be in the chart! This is where the thread decides what does and doesn't need a full vote. Also, welcome!

[Kish]

Include them all.

[Jasdoif]

Ooh, we voting? I know I'm not a thread regular but I'd like to be in your chart with the smiley faces.

Well, not formally a vote at this point...but you can certainly express your opinions that way. Normally it'd just be a bunch of conversion about a new comment the Giant made; but with this many coming in at once, lists (that look a vote) are easier for everyone to keep track of.

And if you can post, you can vote; so your opinion would still count if this was a formal vote.

---

Anyway, again assuming someone comes up with a way #13 would not violate Index rules....

Spoiler: Summary

Show

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Voters
1	"Was the dream V had in #623 an actual event that happened, or was V just having a bad dream based on their decision to run from battle?" (A memory.)	6	1	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Kish Against: Sir_Norbert
2	"Has Elan told his mother about Nale's death? Or is he waiting to see her in person?" (No, he hasn't.)	6	1	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against: Schroeswald
3	"For the MitD I’ve seen a lot of speculation out there on what it is, and my two questions tie into that. I’m hoping these can be answered without spoiling anything. I realize saying who would be, so I’m hoping only for yes/no here. First, has anyone out there that you’ve seen guessed right? Second, has anyone out there made a guess or come to the wrong conclusion but made you think ‘that’s better than what it really is, even for a second?’" (Not answering, and that can't happen.)	4	2	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Kish Against: Emanick, Gwynfrid
4	"what made you decide to add a new character to the main cast so late in the story?" (Didn't, though Minrah still has important roles.)	7	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against:
5	"The artwork upgrade for the Julio Scoundrél story in SSaDT bears a striking similarity to that in Utterly Dwarfed. Did you use that short story as a test for the art upgrade in the main strip or did the main strip upgrade idea come first?" (Not deliberately, but technically yes.)	5	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against:
6	"How often do you go back to old comics when writing new ones? For example, to connect Hylda and Durkon's plot last book, how much did you need to check comics from the first book?" (Not often enough.)	5	2	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against: Schroeswald, Emanick
7	"How much thought do you put into your characters’ names? I was wondering at what stage in the creative process you assign a name to a new character, and the extent that the name is influenced by that character’s prospective personality. In particular, I was thinking of Vaarsuvius’s similarity to Vesuvius, but I’d also be interested to know if there’s any significance in the more common names." (Most important that they sound distinct from each other.)	6	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against:
8	"Something that's been nagging me for a while; did you intend to make V "genderqueer" (quote marks because of the explanation from the first round of questions) from the start, or was it just a happy accident?" (Not at the very beginning, but close.)	6	1	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against: Gwynfrid
9	"Would you consider publishing new comics on a constant pace? Once a week, for example? I would love it if I could expect when the next comic strip will be released. Sometimes it's couple of days and sometimes it can arrive to two weeks." (No.)	7	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against:
10	"Any thoughts on trying to get OOTS back into a magazine again?" (Not likely to happen.)	6	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against:
11	"Why did Nale hate Malack so much as opposed to the rest of Tarquin's gang?" (He didn't, really.)	7	0	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish Against:
12	"Will there ever be another not-in-the-main-storyline book (such as 0, -1, 1/2 and D) or will OOTS as a whole be wrapping up at the end of this book?" (Maybe another sidestory book after the main story ends, but nothing's planned.)	4	2	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Kish Against: Emanick, Sir_Norbert
13	"We love the Order of the Stick coloring book from the Kickstarter campaign. Would you ever be willing to create more coloring pages for your youngest fans, even just as PDFs on Gumroad?" (Advertising copy.)	4	2	Include	In Favor: Fyraltari, Schroeswald, mjp1050, Kish Against: Emanick, Gwynfrid

Spoiler: Breakdown by Voter

Show

Voter	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13
Fyraltari
Schroeswald
mjp1050
Emanick
Gwynfrid
Sir_Norbert
Kish

[Personification]

Yes to all.

[theangelJean]

By the way, anyone here a Patron? There's a total of one comment on the Patreon post, and it's a question which has an answer here in the Index. Anyone want to go link it for that supporter?

[137beth]

I'd say include all.

[Fyraltari]

I would like to retract my support of answer #13.
I still support the inclusion of the other twelve, though.

[Jasdoif]

I would like to retract my support of answer #13.
I still support the inclusion of the other twelve, though.

So noted. Probably just as well; without a viable entry there's not really much sense in tracking it....

---

Anyway, so we're up to....

Spoiler: Summary

Show

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Voters
1	"Was the dream V had in #623 an actual event that happened, or was V just having a bad dream based on their decision to run from battle?" (A memory.)	8	1	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Sir_Norbert
2	"Has Elan told his mother about Nale's death? Or is he waiting to see her in person?" (No, he hasn't.)	8	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Schroeswald
3	"For the MitD I’ve seen a lot of speculation out there on what it is, and my two questions tie into that. I’m hoping these can be answered without spoiling anything. I realize saying who would be, so I’m hoping only for yes/no here. First, has anyone out there that you’ve seen guessed right? Second, has anyone out there made a guess or come to the wrong conclusion but made you think ‘that’s better than what it really is, even for a second?’" (Not answering, and that can't happen.)	6	2	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Emanick, Gwynfrid
4	"what made you decide to add a new character to the main cast so late in the story?" (Didn't, though Minrah still has important roles.)	9	0	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against:
5	"The artwork upgrade for the Julio Scoundrél story in SSaDT bears a striking similarity to that in Utterly Dwarfed. Did you use that short story as a test for the art upgrade in the main strip or did the main strip upgrade idea come first?" (Not deliberately, but technically yes.)	7	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against:
6	"How often do you go back to old comics when writing new ones? For example, to connect Hylda and Durkon's plot last book, how much did you need to check comics from the first book?" (Not often enough.)	7	2	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Schroeswald, Emanick
7	"How much thought do you put into your characters’ names? I was wondering at what stage in the creative process you assign a name to a new character, and the extent that the name is influenced by that character’s prospective personality. In particular, I was thinking of Vaarsuvius’s similarity to Vesuvius, but I’d also be interested to know if there’s any significance in the more common names." (Most important that they sound distinct from each other.)	8	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against:
8	"Something that's been nagging me for a while; did you intend to make V "genderqueer" (quote marks because of the explanation from the first round of questions) from the start, or was it just a happy accident?" (Not at the very beginning, but close.)	8	1	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Gwynfrid
9	"Would you consider publishing new comics on a constant pace? Once a week, for example? I would love it if I could expect when the next comic strip will be released. Sometimes it's couple of days and sometimes it can arrive to two weeks." (No.)	9	0	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against:
10	"Any thoughts on trying to get OOTS back into a magazine again?" (Not likely to happen.)	8	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against:
11	"Why did Nale hate Malack so much as opposed to the rest of Tarquin's gang?" (He didn't, really.)	9	0	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against:
12	"Will there ever be another not-in-the-main-storyline book (such as 0, -1, 1/2 and D) or will OOTS as a whole be wrapping up at the end of this book?" (Maybe another sidestory book after the main story ends, but nothing's planned.)	6	2	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Emanick, Sir_Norbert

Spoiler: Breakdown by Voter

Show

Voter	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Schroeswald
mjp1050
Emanick
Gwynfrid
Sir_Norbert
Kish
Personification
137ben
Fyraltari

[Jaxzan Proditor]

With the exception of 13, I think they're all fine to include. I'm a bit on the fence about 1, 3, and 12 but not to the point where I am actively against their inclusion.

[Jasdoif]

Spoiler: Summary

Show

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Voters
1	"Was the dream V had in #623 an actual event that happened, or was V just having a bad dream based on their decision to run from battle?" (A memory.)	8	1	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Sir_Norbert
2	"Has Elan told his mother about Nale's death? Or is he waiting to see her in person?" (No, he hasn't.)	9	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against: Schroeswald
3	"For the MitD I’ve seen a lot of speculation out there on what it is, and my two questions tie into that. I’m hoping these can be answered without spoiling anything. I realize saying who would be, so I’m hoping only for yes/no here. First, has anyone out there that you’ve seen guessed right? Second, has anyone out there made a guess or come to the wrong conclusion but made you think ‘that’s better than what it really is, even for a second?’" (Not answering, and that can't happen.)	6	2	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Emanick, Gwynfrid
4	"what made you decide to add a new character to the main cast so late in the story?" (Didn't, though Minrah still has important roles.)	10	0	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against:
5	"The artwork upgrade for the Julio Scoundrél story in SSaDT bears a striking similarity to that in Utterly Dwarfed. Did you use that short story as a test for the art upgrade in the main strip or did the main strip upgrade idea come first?" (Not deliberately, but technically yes.)	8	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against:
6	"How often do you go back to old comics when writing new ones? For example, to connect Hylda and Durkon's plot last book, how much did you need to check comics from the first book?" (Not often enough.)	8	2	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against: Schroeswald, Emanick
7	"How much thought do you put into your characters’ names? I was wondering at what stage in the creative process you assign a name to a new character, and the extent that the name is influenced by that character’s prospective personality. In particular, I was thinking of Vaarsuvius’s similarity to Vesuvius, but I’d also be interested to know if there’s any significance in the more common names." (Most important that they sound distinct from each other.)	9	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against:
8	"Something that's been nagging me for a while; did you intend to make V "genderqueer" (quote marks because of the explanation from the first round of questions) from the start, or was it just a happy accident?" (Not at the very beginning, but close.)	9	1	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against: Gwynfrid
9	"Would you consider publishing new comics on a constant pace? Once a week, for example? I would love it if I could expect when the next comic strip will be released. Sometimes it's couple of days and sometimes it can arrive to two weeks." (No.)	10	0	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against:
10	"Any thoughts on trying to get OOTS back into a magazine again?" (Not likely to happen.)	9	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against:
11	"Why did Nale hate Malack so much as opposed to the rest of Tarquin's gang?" (He didn't, really.)	10	0	Include	In Favor: Schroeswald, mjp1050, Emanick, Gwynfrid, Sir_Norbert, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari, Jaxzan Proditor Against:
12	"Will there ever be another not-in-the-main-storyline book (such as 0, -1, 1/2 and D) or will OOTS as a whole be wrapping up at the end of this book?" (Maybe another sidestory book after the main story ends, but nothing's planned.)	6	2	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Gwynfrid, Kish, Personification, 137ben, Fyraltari Against: Emanick, Sir_Norbert

Spoiler: Breakdown by Voter

Show

Voter	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
Schroeswald
mjp1050
Emanick
Gwynfrid
Sir_Norbert
Kish
Personification
137ben
Fyraltari
Jaxzan Proditor

---

I suspect it's not going to move a whole lot further from this point...So, entry titles/descriptions:

Proposed Additions/Updates for Index 6.6
🍌Don't Expect More OotS Magazine Strips(#10) "It was fun when I did it, but I'm really a lot more interested in the story than thinking up one-off gags over and over, especially when I can't hang them on the ongoing plot."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌Elan Hasn't Told his Mother about Nale's Death(#2) "I don't think he would have had the opportunity to do so yet."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌How a Name Sounds is More Important Than Its Meaning(#7) "After all, people butcher the name Xykon constantly (Zykon, Xyklon, Xkon) but everyone still knows who they're talking about because no other character in the strip has a name even close to his."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌Minrah Isn't a "Main Cast" Character(#4) "Minrah is traveling with the team and helping them out, but she is not a member of the main cast, which is and has always been numbered at six."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌On Nale's Focus on Malack(#11) "....Nale likely hated (the Vector Legion) equally but spent more effort planning Malack's death because Malack was harder to kill."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌On the Flashback in 623(#1) "...it's intended to be a memory."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌The Comic Cannot Be Posted on a Consistent Basis(#9) "What you're suggesting is not something I can actually do."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌The Giant Does Check Older Comics For Consistency(#6) "...for something like Hilgya's reappearance, I thought it was important to go back and look at exactly what was said and done in that original scene."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌The Julio Scoundrél story in Snips, Snails and Dragon Tales Indirectly Inspired the New Art Style(#5) "...I guess it was a test bed, but it wasn't an intentional one at the time."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌There Could Possibly Be More Side-Story Books In the Future(#12) "I...can't rule out some stories that don't get released until after the main series ends, but there are no plans for a full-on spin-off or sequel or what have you."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍌There is no "Better" Possibility for What MitD ( ) Is(#3) "It's not a guessing game I added to the strip just for extracurricular fun and games, it's part of the story. There's no answer that's better than what he is because everything written for the last 15 years has been written with that answer in mind."	#1208	2020/07/31	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
🍍🍌Vaarsuvius is Genderqueer(#6) But "not talking about gender is just culturally part of being an elf". See also here(#8) ("Even though I played it for laughs at times during the early days, I always tried to make it so that V themselves was never the butt of the joke....")	#1193	2020/03/01	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.

[137beth]

I'd like to float the idea of altering this summary:

Religions and Deities in OOTS World
Background details on who worships whom, and on Thor, Hel, and the Twelve Gods.

To mention Tsukiko. The reason being that after seeing the thread asking if Tsukiko was a godless cleric, I opened all the spoilers on the first page of this thread and CTRL+F'ed for "Tsuk" looking for that quote. I'm not sure exactly what the wording should be, though.

[Jasdoif]

The reason being that after seeing the thread asking if Tsukiko was a godless cleric, I opened all the spoilers on the first page of this thread and CTRL+F'ed for "Tsuk" looking for that quote.

I don't think it'd preempt "well what if she got her clerical powers from somewhere other than the Twelve Gods even though she worshiped them", though.