The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas

[137beth]

I vote exclude.

[Jasdoif]

Since we're across the page boundary...in case anyone missed it, there's a vote going on:

Item up for voting:

🍌The Giant's Position on Social Media(#12) "I write a comic, and the comic is the product, not me."

#1232

2021/04/27

---

• Please bold your yes/no vote, it'll make it easier for me to notice when I go through and count everything.
• Votes must be posted (as in, not PM-ed to me) to be counted.
• Please avoid discussing the quote itself, outside of giving an explanation for your vote in the same post as your vote. This'll make it easier to catch up after the vote, if a new quote comes along while we're still voting.
• Per Rule F4, inclusion by vote requires a quote to have two more votes in favor than votes against.

Voting will be open until May 17th, 9PM EDT.

[Sniffnoy]

Voting include.

[Lord Torath]

Voting Exclude.

[Doug Lampert]

Voting Exclude.

[Precure]

Voting Exclude.

[Ionathus]

No, exclude.

[Jasdoif]

Okay.

---

• The Giant's Position on Social Media failed to pass; 7 for, 14 against.

Spoiler: Voting Results

Show

Entry	Yes Votes	No Votes	Voters
🍌The Giant's Position on Social Media(#12) "I write a comic, and the comic is the product, not me."	7	14	Yes Votes: Kish, Reboot, Schroeswald, Arin, hamishspence, snowblizz, Sniffnoy No Votes: Metastachydium, Joerg, Jaxzan Proditor, Gwynfrid, arimareiji, Argis13, Fyraltari, Shadowknight12, WanderingMist, 137ben, Lord Torath, Doug Lampert, Precure, Ionathus

The Index has been updated with the remaining entries.

[Ortho]

There's a new answers post up on the Patreon.

Don't have time to write out my full thoughts, but after a cursory glance-through, I think everything except for #8 is a candidate for inclusion.

[Peelee]

There's a new answers post up on the Patreon.

Don't have time to write out my full thoughts, but after a cursory glance-through, I think everything except for #8 is a candidate for inclusion.

2 and 3 don't seem particularly relevant.

[Metastachydium]

Marvelous! Let's see:
a. Must absolutely be INCLUDED: 1 (it's about Serini, her role and capabilities; not as important as the others, but of some relevance), 7 (the second paragraph of this one was outright revelative for me, as it gives a partial explanation for something about the portrayal of fathers that's been bugging me for ages), 8 (a couple of key worldbuilding details), 9 and 11 (providing canonical facts so many of us were so looking for; probably the two most important answers in quite a while);
b. should likewise be INCLUDED: 6, 12 (interesting facts for sure, but that's the extent of it);
c. might as well be included, but I have NO STRONG OPINION on these: 3, 5, 13 (stuff like this made its way into the Index before, and I can see why, but beyond that, I don't really care either way);
d. [shrugs] NO STRONG OPINION: 4, 10;
e. should be EXCLUDED: 2 (come on, folks, most of this (and some more) is literally available on the Giant's freaking Wikipedia page).

[IthilanorStPete]

Unrelated to the Patreon Q&A: I was rereading the index entries, there's an entry in the Drawing section for "Examples of the Giant's Non-Stick-Figure Art Talent"; problem is, the image links in the posts it links to are broken, the images don't display. Given that the point of the entry is linking to example art, should it be removed?

[Doug Lampert]

1-Yes.
2-No (Not comic relevant).
3-No (Not comic relevant).
4-Yes (There has been forum discussion of possible meanings of duplicated titles).
5-Yes.
6-Yes.
7-Yes.
8-Yes (Negative information is still information).
9-Yes.
10-Yes.
11-Yes.
12-No (Doesn't actually provide any information beyond the fact that this is an easily solvable issue not worth time in the comic, it's not worth time in the index either).
13-Yes.

[Jasdoif]

Okay, so looks like new Q&A is starting out at....

---

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Posters
1	"Did you always plan for Serini to return, or did that develop as you wrote the story?" (Yes, she was always going to return.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:
2	"I'm not sure if this crosses the threshold into personal information, but I was curious about what kind of training you received as it relates to art and writing. Are you self-taught and just enjoy drawing and consuming a breadth of media or have you specifically attended classes to develop the skills you exhibit? As a related follow-up, have you considered teaching a class?" (Not a whole lot.)	1	3	Exclude	In Favor: mjp1050 Against: Peelee, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert
3	"As an artist, what was The Moment when you realized, "Hey, I could do this professionally?"" (Kind of stumbled into it.)	2	2	Vote-able	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium Against: Peelee, Doug Lampert
4	"Do you ever find yourself held up on putting up a comic because you're trying to find a good title?" (Sort of.)	2	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Doug Lampert Against:
5	"Was there anything that you've drawn that just made you laugh after you've finished drawing it?" (The Coming of the Reapernana.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:
6	"You’ve written a lot of death scenes in the comic. Which character’s death hit you hardest emotionally to write?" (Sangwaan's.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:
7	"I understand if you'd rather plead the 5th, but after years of reading our heroes go through personal struggles with their families while on their mission to save the world, I wonder if you might have seen or experienced similar ordeals. Would you be willing to talk about some of your inspirations, or am I a tactless ghoul for asking something so personal?" (Nothing specific.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:
8	"Who would be the most conventionally beautiful characters (male and female) if they were drawn non-sticky?" (<insert curation comment about multifaceted sarcasm here/>)	2	1	Include	In Favor: Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against: mjp1050
9	"Hi, I really enjoy your comic. Thor agreed with Durkon's point that the goblins got a bad deal when the gods created the OOTS world. However, the hobgoblins that Red Cloak dragooned to attack Azure City had a robust city. You showed a picture of it. Maybe goblins weren't doing so well, but those hobgoblins right there were doing OK. They overcame the obstacles that had been set before them. Why does Red Cloak feel that it is worth throwing away what has been accomplished by him and others on the chance that the next world will be better?" (He's the kind to overplay a hand that isn't as good as some have guessed.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:
10	"What is one color palette choice you made early on that you wish you could change now?" (Elan's initial appearance. Also Nale's initial appearance.)	2	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Doug Lampert Against:
11	"What is the alignment of each of the twelve gods? I interpreted Rat to be evil, how about others? Since, according to your previous answer, most Azurites worship the pantheon as one, how do good aligned worshipers feel about revering evil gods this way and vice versa? Does this imply that many of the followers of the religion are neutral aligned? How about the paladins in Azure city, how can they worship evil gods by proxy of worshiping the whole pantheon and still be strictly good?" (They kind of have to be True Neutral.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:
12	"I know this is dumb but where do dwarves get the cloth for their clothes from?" (<insert pithy summary of an Underdark textile industry here/>)	2	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium Against: Doug Lampert
13	"How do you come up with the designs for the covers of the books?" (A single dynamic image of the protagonists not spoiling the book's contents.)	3	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against:

---

Unrelated to the Patreon Q&A: I was rereading the index entries, there's an entry in the Drawing section for "Examples of the Giant's Non-Stick-Figure Art Talent"; problem is, the image links in the posts it links to are broken, the images don't display. Given that the point of the entry is linking to example art, should it be removed?

Well, seeing as the Giant has reuploaded images on multiple occasions, I don't think removing the posts is particularly pressing...what's everyone else think? (There's probably some comment to be made about how the image links break every time the website is redone, but that's in no way restricted to this particular website....)

[Schroeswald]

1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. Yes
5. No
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. No
9. Yes
10. Yes
11. Yes
12. Yes
13. Yes

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Since it’s the only one that seems to be in contention, I lean against including #3, since it doesn’t seem particularly OOTS-focused. Other than the financials of running the comic full time, that is.

I’m glad that it seems the Patreon questions will be continuing a little more regularly, so that we all have something to discuss here.

[Sir_Norbert]

Yes 1, 4, 6, 9, 10, 11, 13
No 2, 3, 8

[Precure]

1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. No
7. No
8. No
9. Yes
10. No
11. Yes
12. No
13. No

[Jasdoif]

Alright, that brings the current standings to....

Spoiler: Detailed Summary

Show

#	Question	In Favor	Against	Disposition	Posters
1	"Did you always plan for Serini to return, or did that develop as you wrote the story?" (Yes, she was always going to return.)	6	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert, Precure Against:
2	"I'm not sure if this crosses the threshold into personal information, but I was curious about what kind of training you received as it relates to art and writing. Are you self-taught and just enjoy drawing and consuming a breadth of media or have you specifically attended classes to develop the skills you exhibit? As a related follow-up, have you considered teaching a class?" (Not a whole lot.)	1	6	Exclude	In Favor: mjp1050 Against: Peelee, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert, Precure
3	"As an artist, what was The Moment when you realized, "Hey, I could do this professionally?"" (Kind of stumbled into it.)	2	6	Exclude	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium Against: Peelee, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Jaxzan Proditor, Sir_Norbert, Precure
4	"Do you ever find yourself held up on putting up a comic because you're trying to find a good title?" (Sort of.)	4	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert Against: Precure
5	"Was there anything that you've drawn that just made you laugh after you've finished drawing it?" (The Coming of the Reapernana.)	3	2	Vote-able	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against: Schroeswald, Precure
6	"You’ve written a lot of death scenes in the comic. Which character’s death hit you hardest emotionally to write?" (Sangwaan's.)	5	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert Against: Precure
7	"I understand if you'd rather plead the 5th, but after years of reading our heroes go through personal struggles with their families while on their mission to save the world, I wonder if you might have seen or experienced similar ordeals. Would you be willing to talk about some of your inspirations, or am I a tactless ghoul for asking something so personal?" (Nothing specific.)	4	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald Against: Precure
8	"Who would be the most conventionally beautiful characters (male and female) if they were drawn non-sticky?" (<insert curation comment about multifaceted sarcasm here/>)	2	4	Vote-able	In Favor: Metastachydium, Doug Lampert Against: mjp1050, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert, Precure
9	"Hi, I really enjoy your comic. Thor agreed with Durkon's point that the goblins got a bad deal when the gods created the OOTS world. However, the hobgoblins that Red Cloak dragooned to attack Azure City had a robust city. You showed a picture of it. Maybe goblins weren't doing so well, but those hobgoblins right there were doing OK. They overcame the obstacles that had been set before them. Why does Red Cloak feel that it is worth throwing away what has been accomplished by him and others on the chance that the next world will be better?" (He's the kind to overplay a hand that isn't as good as some have guessed.)	6	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert, Precure Against:
10	"What is one color palette choice you made early on that you wish you could change now?" (Elan's initial appearance. Also Nale's initial appearance.)	4	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert Against: Precure
11	"What is the alignment of each of the twelve gods? I interpreted Rat to be evil, how about others? Since, according to your previous answer, most Azurites worship the pantheon as one, how do good aligned worshipers feel about revering evil gods this way and vice versa? Does this imply that many of the followers of the religion are neutral aligned? How about the paladins in Azure city, how can they worship evil gods by proxy of worshiping the whole pantheon and still be strictly good?" (They kind of have to be True Neutral.)	6	0	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert, Precure Against:
12	"I know this is dumb but where do dwarves get the cloth for their clothes from?" (<insert pithy summary of an Underdark textile industry here/>)	3	2	Vote-able	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Schroeswald Against: Doug Lampert, Precure
13	"How do you come up with the designs for the covers of the books?" (A single dynamic image of the protagonists not spoiling the book's contents.)	5	1	Include	In Favor: mjp1050, Metastachydium, Doug Lampert, Schroeswald, Sir_Norbert Against: Precure

Poster	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13
mjp1050
Peelee
Metastachydium
Doug Lampert
Schroeswald
Jaxzan Proditor
Sir_Norbert
Precure

[littlebum2002]

Yes to all the green and #5, no to all the red and other yellows.

I personally think allowing #8 will take away any credibility this thread has lol

[dancrilis]

I would say to include 8.

It may speak to something of Azure City culture that they have both of the most attractive individuals.

For Mr. Scruffy if further speaks to Belkar's good treatment of his animal companion.

For Azurite archer to beat out Sabine/Samantha/<insert other individuals known to be attractive here> may imply a number of items about the culture of Azure City in relation to the value it places on beauty - this soldier was not being kept in a noble retinue, they were not being protected by the commanders of the army, etc solely because someone powerful liked the look of them.
If you imagine that same soldier in Tarquin's forces it would be more surprising to me - so I think it says something (albeith something minor) about cultural differences between Azure City and the Empire of Blood.

[Metastachydium]

If you imagine that same soldier in Tarquin's forces it would be more surprising to me - so I think it says something (albeith something minor) about cultural differences between Azure City and the Empire of Blood.

(Apparently, this doesn't make women of great beauty in the Empire any worse at, khm, dealing with their competitors in some manner that sounds pretty definitive. Speaking of Fahruzi and the Bloody military, have we ever seen a member of said armed forces who we know to be female (it's hard to tell with reptilian folks) other than those three members of the Bleedingham Amateur Snorkeling Club?)

[Jasdoif]

(Apparently, this doesn't make women of great beauty in the Empire any worse at, khm, dealing with their competitors in some manner that sounds pretty definitive. Speaking of Fahruzi and the Bloody military, have we ever seen a member of said armed forces who we know to be female (it's hard to tell with reptilian folks) other than those three members of the Bleedingham Amateur Snorkeling Club?)

If you were asking about the hobgoblin army attacking Azure City, we'd have a definitive answer:

Out-of-universe, my bet is that Rich copied and pasted a hobgoblin figure a zillion times, realized after the fact that he'd wound up with an entirely male hobgoblin force, slapped in a note about how the hobgoblin women stayed back at home to take care of the kids, and didn't really think about it again.

It warms my heart that someone is finally beginning to understand how my creative process works.

But also, I wanted to make sure the audience was on the Azurite's side during the battle. Giving their side gender integration was an easy shorthand way to show that they were more enlightened, socially. Further, having all the hobgoblins be identical helped de-emphasize them as individuals, which made it easier to do things like a horse ramp of dead hobgoblins. Having several different models for the Azurites (male, female, sword-and-shield, archer, halberd, etc.) made them feel more like people and less like cogs in a machine. I didn't really want the audience to weep for the hobgoblin dead, though, so I made them all interchangeable.

I suppose it would have been equally valid to make the entire fighting force identical women rather than men, in that case, but a.) it didn't occur to me, b.) I think that would have required more explanation, and c.) it may have lead to a weird misogynist vibe when I did things like the aforementioned horse ramp, or Belkar's Sexy Shoeless God of War scene. Maybe there will be a day when we're all so gender-blind that a bloodthirsty male killer standing atop a pile of women's corpses and bellowing about his martial and sexual prowess will be seen as nothing but a warrior who has courageously defeated his worthy combat adversaries with great skill, but that day ain't today.

[Metastachydium]

If you were asking about the hobgoblin army attacking Azure City, we'd have a definitive answer:

I know about that one. By "the Bloody military", however, I meant the Bloody military, i.e. the armed forces for the Empire of Blood, the personnel of which are anything but interchangeable: they come from three different species (kobolds are less common, but there) and their skin/scale colours vary a lot.

[Jasdoif]

(Apparently, this doesn't make women of great beauty in the Empire any worse at, khm, dealing with their competitors in some manner that sounds pretty definitive. Speaking of Fahruzi and the Bloody military, have we ever seen a member of said armed forces who we know to be female (it's hard to tell with reptilian folks) other than those three members of the Bleedingham Amateur Snorkeling Club?)

If you were asking about the hobgoblin army attacking Azure City, we'd have a definitive answer:

I know about that one. By "the Bloody military", however, I meant the Bloody military, i.e. the armed forces for the Empire of Blood, the personnel of which are anything but interchangeable: they come from three different species (kobolds are less common, but there) and their skin/scale colours vary a lot.

Hmm. I don't think so...at the very least, with the general tenor of threads about Tarquin and sexism at the time I'd think it'd be easy to find posts pointing out a woman in his army, if such a circumstance was portrayed. Looking through the comics where Tarquin's army attacked the Order of the Stick didn't I didn't find anything (other than my impression that the troop distribution rendered on-panel became more and more human as the battle went on).

[Fyraltari]

Include: 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13.
Exclude: 2, 3 and 8.

[Gwynfrid]

I would include everything except #8, which is just a throwaway joke. I understand that discussions like #2 and #3 aren't strictly about the comic, but I find them relevant, indirectly, to the writing process, so I would still include them.

[super dark33]

Exclude 8, what a weird question to ask.

[hroþila]

If I don't vote on the other questions, can I vote 13 times against #8?

Anyway, exclude 8 (x13)

[Personification]

As usual, I am generally for total inclusion, but I get the arguments against 2 and 3, and they are very unpopular anyway, so I will abstain from voting on them (everything else is an include). I kind of like 8 because, while I agree that the question is kind of foolish, I think that the answer provides an interesting bit of technically canon trivia and the existence of it in our database might be enough to stop someone from asking it again.