Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

[ben-zayb]

Force can have a bigger threat - Force of Will + Saprazzan Cove + Misthollow Griffin. Has issues actually winning the game against Strip Mine decks and those with uncounterable threats, though.

I doubt they'll go for a deck that most likely draws at best. You'll be holding on to that Griffin permanently, unless you want to risk that turn.

[Bucky]

The Misthollow Griffin deck wins vs. decks that can't dump their entire hand in a turn by holding onto the Griffin until the Cove has 9 counters on it, then going shields-down for one turn to resolve the Griffin, then holding up the mana to hardcast the Force while the Griffin beats whatever the opponent's one resolved spell was.

[Tom the Mime]

It's Sunday here so...

Round 1 Results:

Gauntlet: Pyrokinesis, Chancellor of the Forge, Strip Mine
Dr GunsforHand: Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe
Unavenger: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge
Personification: Black Lotus, Balance, Healers Hawk
b_jonas: Blacker Lotus, Leyline of anticipation, Disciple of Phenax
Ninjaman: Blacker Lotus, Blacker Lotus, Thrun, the Last Troll
Quiddle: Chancellor of the Annex, Blacker Lotus, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
TiaC: Chancellor of the Forge, Force of Will, Nexus of Fate,
Bucky: Sidisi's Faithful, Slither Blade, Cavern of Souls
Eurus: Chancellor of the Annex, Memnite, Memnite
Fable Wright: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin
ben-zayb: Laboratory Maniac, Cavern of Souls, Black Lotus

X

Q

N

G

Dr

P

FW

E

T

B

BZ

BJ

U

Quiddle

X

WW

WW

WW

WW

WW

LL

WW

WW

WW

WW

WW

60

Ninjaman

LL

X

WW

LL

DL

WW

WW

WW

WW

LL

DD

WW

39

Gauntlet

LL

LL

X

WW

DL

WW

DD

DD

DD

WW

WW

WW

37

Dr Gunsforhands

LL

WW

LL

X

WL

DD

WW

LL

WW

WW

LL

WW

35

Personification

LL

WD

WD

WL

X

DD

LL

LL

WW

WD

DD

WW

31

Fable Wright

LL

LL

LL

DD

DD

X

DD

WW

WW

DD

WW

DD

28

Eurus

WW

LL

DD

LL

WW

DD

X

WW

LL

LL

WW

LL

28

TiaC

LL

LL

DD

WW

WW

LL

LL

X

LL

WW

WW

LL

26

Bucky

LL

LL

DD

LL

LL

LL

WW

WW

X

WW

DD

DD

24

ben-zayb

LL

WW

LL

LL

DL

DD

WW

LL

LL

X

LL

WW

21

b_jonas

LL

DD

LL

WW

DD

LL

LL

LL

DD

WW

X

DD

20

Unavenger

LL

LL

LL

LL

LL

DD

WW

WW

DD

LL

DD

X

18

Official results posted after people have had a chance to look for mistakes. That said, I'm pretty confident that Blacker Lotus, Chancellor of the Annex and Jace, Wielder of Mysteries will be banned.
Quiddle was initially doing well with his main weakness being Chancellor of the Annex. And then other decks using Chancellor of the Annex being swapped out made it even stronger. Interestingly, the best use of the Chancellor was not to disrupt their threat but to disrupt their disruption.

Misthollow griffin is nice in theory but it always loses unless it can win a race because the turn after it's played, the deck can't counter anything. Actually a fairly close race between TiaC and Fable Wright as Fable can't cast the Griffin until turn 11 to be able to hard cast FoW against TiaC's FoW but can still swing for victory without having to hold back to block the goblin.

[Ninjaman]

The Misthollow Griffin deck wins vs. decks that can't dump their entire hand in a turn by holding onto the Griffin until the Cove has 9 counters on it, then going shields-down for one turn to resolve the Griffin, then holding up the mana to hardcast the Force while the Griffin beats whatever the opponent's one resolved spell was.

I don't like those odds.

[Bucky]

Personification should be able to beat me on the play by Balancing two cards out of my hand and then casting the Hawk.

The Misthollow Griffin notably deck beat mine, unlike a 1/1 threat Force of Will deck.

[Tom the Mime]

Personification should be able to beat me on the play by Balancing two cards out of my hand and then casting the Hawk.

The Misthollow Griffin notably deck beat mine, unlike a 1/1 threat Force of Will deck.

Made a fair few mistakes with personification. Fixing now.

Edit: Think it's okay now but not sure.

[Eurus]

I feel like I should be drawing against Gauntlet if I play one of the Memnites and force him to either swing into it with his token (blocking and trading) or pyrokinesis it and then play my second Memnite (and block and trade). And I'm not sure how Dr Gunsforhands gets his Lotus out against Chancellor? EDIT: Oh duh, the Gitaxian Probe eats the counterspell.

Against Fable... ooh, yeah, I see. I can get both Memnites out before he has the mana to resolve Force of Will through Chancellor, but won't win before he gets his Griffin out, but he can't swing with the Griffin because he needs to keep it as a blocker. Fun!

[b_jonas]

I believe that I win over Dr GunsforHand. I can act in the first upkeep before he can do anything, other than perhaps cast the Probe which does nothing. My Disciple of Phenax lets me force him to discard his second best card. He needs both Black Lotus and the Laboratory Maniac to go off, so after the discard, he can't. The disciple lives and I win by damage. (I'm glad I went with the Disciple, rather than Nicol Bolas, the Ravager or Plaguecrafter.) (Table says that I lose, please fix.) Table says that I win now.

I probably draw the game against Unavenger. I can't disrupt them. They get three 1/1 tokens, I have an 1/3. If they attack, I kill one of their guys. If I attack for 1 damage, they don't block and get to attack for 3 damage, so I can only do that a few times until they win the damage race. So we're in a stalemate. (Table says that I win, please fix.) The table says draw, so that's correct.

(I believe I win against Gauntlet. In the first upkeep make him discard either the Pyrokinesis or the Chancellor. He has the option to use the Pyrokinesis before that, but only on his own goblin, and if he does that, I win. After that, he can't use the Pyrokinesis because he can't pay the alternative cost. After that, Gauntlet has a 1/1 goblin with haste and I have a 1/3 creature already before the first combat. If he attacks first, I block and his goblin dies. If I attack, he can attack in reaction, but it's too late, I win the damage race. The table says that I lose, please fix.) Tom the Mime explains that I'm wrong: Gauntlet can use the Pyrokinesis in response to the Disciple's trigger. If I hold back my spells, he wins with the goblin. That means I lose, so the table is correct.

The following are correct in the table: I lose against Quiddle and Eurus and Fable Wright and TiaC; I win against Ninjaman and ben-zayb; I draw the game against Personification and Bucky.

I think Quiddle wins against Gauntlet. The Strip Mine doesn't do anything, the Pyrokinesis doesn't do anything either except perhaps kill his own goblin, so at most he has a hasted goblin. Jace wins before the goblin can do significant damage. The table says WL, please fix that.

Update, re Tom the Mime: Sorry, the table is big and confusing and I probably misread it.

[Tom the Mime]

I believe that I win over Dr GunsforHand. I can act in the first upkeep before he can do anything, other than perhaps cast the Probe which does nothing. My Disciple of Phenax lets me force him to discard his second best card. He needs both Black Lotus and the Laboratory Maniac to go off, so after the discard, he can't. The disciple lives and I win by damage. (I'm glad I went with the Disciple, rather than Nicol Bolas, the Ravager or Plaguecrafter.) Table says that I lose, please fix.

(I probably draw the game against Unavenger. I can't disrupt him. He gets three 1/1 tokens, I have an 1/3. If he attacks, I kill one of his guys. If I attack for 1 damage, he doesn't block and gets to attack for 3 damage, so I can only do that a few times until he wins the damage race. So we're in a stalemate. Table says that I win, please fix.) The table says draw, so that's correct.

I believe I win against Gauntlet. In the first upkeep make him discard either the Pyrokinesis or the Chancellor. He has the option to use the Pyrokinesis before that, but only on his own goblin, and if he does that, I win. After that, he can't use the Pyrokinesis because he can't pay the alternative cost. After that, Gauntlet has a 1/1 goblin with haste and I have a 1/3 creature already before the first combat. If he attacks first, I block and his goblin dies. If I attack, he can attack in reaction, but it's too late, I win the damage race. The table says that I lose, please fix.

The following are correct in the table: I lose against Quiddle and Eurus and Fable Wright and TiaC; I win against Ninjaman and ben-zayb; I draw the game against Personification and Bucky.

I had you listed as winning against Gunsforhands from the start. You lose to Gauntlet because Disciple of Phenax is an etb trigger, not a cast trigger. In response to the trigger, he casts Pyrokinesis on the Disciple and has a 1/1 on a clear board and doesn't care about the discard.

I feel like I should be drawing against Gauntlet if I play one of the Memnites and force him to either swing into it with his token (blocking and trading) or pyrokinesis it and then play my second Memnite (and block and trade). And I'm not sure how Dr Gunsforhands gets his Lotus out against Chancellor? EDIT: Oh duh, the Gitaxian Probe eats the counterspell.

Against Fable... ooh, yeah, I see. I can get both Memnites out before he has the mana to resolve Force of Will through Chancellor, but won't win before he gets his Griffin out, but he can't swing with the Griffin because he needs to keep it as a blocker. Fun!

Sounds right. Fixed.

[Eurus]

Also, just wanted to thank you for running this round, Tom the Mime.

[Tom the Mime]

I think Quiddle wins against Gauntlet. The Strip Mine doesn't do anything, the Pyrokinesis doesn't do anything either except perhaps kill his own goblin, so at most he has a hasted goblin. Jace wins before the goblin can do significant damage.

That one was me forgetting that priority doesn't shift when a planeswalker enters the battlfield, that the +1 takes effect before the effect resolves and that Pyrokinesis can't target the planeswalker anyway (for some reason I thought any target).


At about 9-10 decks Quiddle and Gauntlet were drawing then the final ones entered and people changed decks and Quiddle ran away with it. I think people will be pleased with which cards are banned.

[b_jonas]

Quiddle: congratulations for winning this round.
Personification: Balance is an interesting idea, it works against a lot of different threats. It might help you more later when the decks become slower but there is still enough fast mana available.
All players: thank you for joining the game. I hope you stick around for the next fifty rounds.
Tom the Mime: thank you for organizing and for judging.

Update: argh, Ninjaman is right. Thrurn costs 2GG, so he can cast it from just one Blacker Lotus and win. Tom the Mime explains below how it's a stalemate draw.

[Ninjaman]

Now I might be mistaken but how Do I lose to B_Jonas? He flashes in the disciple with devotion 2, I reveal both lotuses. He discards one and a play Thrun with the other.

[ben-zayb]

I wonder how many changed out their supposed Chancellor Deck?

2 broken cards off. Few more to go.

[Eurus]

I know! I won against the winning deck, so on at least some level my prediction was right, but the field was too varied for me to survive.

[Tom the Mime]

Now I might be mistaken but how Do I lose to B_Jonas? He flashes in the disciple with devotion 2, I reveal both lotuses. He discards one and a play Thrun with the other.

I think it's actually DD. In response to the first lotus being cast, he flashes in the disciple, forcing you to discard Thrun. And if he plays his disciple first, you play Thrun and win so neither of you can play anything without losing. Fixed.

[Ninjaman]

I think it's actually DD. In response to the first lotus being cast, he flashes in the disciple, forcing you to discard Thrun. And if he plays his disciple first, you play Thrun and win so neither of you can play anything without losing. Fixed.

That makes sense.

[Tom the Mime]

There might be some changes but it's not going to change the winner so the standings are...

Gold: Quiddle
They see you trolling, they hating: Ninjaman
Forging ahead: Gauntlet
What is he doing with that probe: Dr Gunsforhands
A little off balance: personification
The griffin seems kind of lost: Fable Wright
Annexed drones: Eurus
Unfated: TiaC
Snakes in a... cavern: Bucky
Stuck in the lab: ben-zayb
The anticipation isn't quite killing me: b_jonas
Three little goblins: unavenger

Ban list:

Spoiler: Ban list: Round 2

Show

Land: Empty

Artifact: Blacker Lotus

White: Chancellor of the Annex

Blue: Jace, Wielder of Mysteries

Black: Empty

Green: Empty

Red: Empty

Gold: Empty

Submit your entries for round 2. Judging will be in 4 days or earlier if 24 hours pass without any submissions or changes. Also, would anyone have issues if I submitted a semi joke deck for the next round? It shouldn't do too well (it'll make me laugh but sad inside if it does) and I'll submit the initials in a spoiler so you know it's not in response to any submitted decks. Given it's a semi joke deck, I don't exactly mind if people guess what it is beforehand.

Spoiler

Show

IOB

[Bucky]

Re: joke deck, I'd rather only need to mindgame the actual players.

[Quiddle]

Theres still enough busted things you can do that a joke deck won't win imo. So its fine if you run one.

[Tom the Mime]

Half the people who responded said no so I won't include it. It was also doing better than I thought against some of the decks in so it'll probably come back with tweaks to optimize it in round 6 when someone else is hosting (assuming the critical parts aren't banned and I doubt they will be).

[Personification]

Looking back, I'm pretty sure that on the draw I beat Gauntlet, Bucky, and ben-zayb, which I believe would make me tired with Dr. Gunsforhands.

[Tom the Mime]

Looking back, I'm pretty sure that on the draw I beat Gauntlet, Bucky, and ben-zayb, which I believe would make me tired with Dr. Gunsforhands.

When you're on draw, Gauntlet plays strip mine. If you play the hawk before balance, he pyro's it, you balance and no one can do anything. If you play balance first, he pyro's his goblin and has no cards in hand so you have to discard your hawk and no one can do anything.

With ben-zayb, he plays out his whole hand first turn so you can either play the hawk before balance and lose to the lab maniac effect or play it after and have to discard it. So no-one has anything.

You're right about Bucky though. Forgot the land destruction part of balance and thought he could use the faithful to exploit itself and bounce the hawk. Fixed.

[Personification]

Got it. I missed that he could get rid of the pyro.

[Tom the Mime]

Inbox is clear again if anyone had troubles with submission.

[Ninjaman]

Inbox is clear again if anyone had troubles with submission.

You got mine right?

[Tom the Mime]

Unless you sent a change in the last few hours, yes. Only full for about 5 hours overnight given one that had a timestamp of around 3 in the morning.

[Gauntlet]

Curious as to whether we end up with everyone carefully avoiding the obvious few decks for multiple rounds in fear of being hated out, now.

[Bucky]

I think that, regardless of hate-avoidance, Black Lotus goes in the next round or two. And when the Lotuses are both gone, they take most of the remaining 'obvious' decks with them.

[Ninjaman]

Curious as to whether we end up with everyone carefully avoiding the obvious few decks for multiple rounds in fear of being hated out, now.

I think Chancellor and Force were the obvious decks this round, and a lot of the decks lost to either one or both of those.