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  1. - Top - End - #241
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I think I definitely DD vs Gauntlet, with Warping Wail trading with Hangarback and Revoker trading with Overseer both rounds.

    I also think I WW vs everyone but Tom with Steel Overseer acting as a blocker that keeps pumping Hangarback at EoT.

    I W/L vs Tom. On the play, Hangarback swings for 3 on turn 3, Overseer + Hangarback for 6 on turn 4, 6 on turn 5, when Shelldock ETBs tapped, and then we count to 21 on turn 6. I don't THINK there's a line of play that wins on the draw, even though I can block Emrakul with a token from Hangarback after he's Annihilated; I think I only get to 18.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I think you only get to 17 because I get to use piracy charm again to take out one of the flyers but the results seen right. Not hardcasting Emrakul slows the deck down just enough in this case.

    Didn't expect it to do this well given it doesn't cheat things out as well as channel/hickory woodlot although one of the few cases where it's more robust came up here given Gauntlet could counter channel but not piracy charm.

    Edit:
    Filling in the gaps, I think:
    Quiddle beats Gauntlet, Ninjaman and personification and loses to the rest.
    Ninjaman beats Gauntlet and personification and loses to the rest.
    Gauntlet beats personification, draws with Fable Wright, trades with me and loses the rest
    Personification is LL to everyone
    Last edited by Tom the Mime; 2019-12-12 at 09:49 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #243
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    Personification is LL to everyone
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    Also, I think I beat Ninjaman.
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  4. - Top - End - #244
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    I think you only get to 17 because I get to use piracy charm again to take out one of the flyers but the results seen right. Not hardcasting Emrakul slows the deck down just enough in this case.

    Didn't expect it to do this well given it doesn't cheat things out as well as channel/hickory woodlot although one of the few cases where it's more robust came up here given Gauntlet could counter channel but not piracy charm.
    Funny thing is, you'd be LL against my deck with Channel, just because of the life loss from it. Having the full 20 life buffer did a lot for that matchup. I recycled this deck from Ninjaman specifically because I remember that it could outrace my Ulamog deck, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
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    Also, I think I beat Ninjaman.
    How? Obstinate Baloth is still a 4/4. By the time he has both on the field, if he hasn't swung, you're at 30 and he's at 10... and he still wins that race by swinging for 8 each turn vs your 1.
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  5. - Top - End - #245
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    This was definitely not the right round for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Personification View Post
    Also, I think I beat Ninjaman.
    When I play the first Baloth life totals are 15 - 25, which you then turn into 14 -26. From there you still need 14 more hits to kill me, which would bring you up to 40 life. A single Baloth deals that in ten turns, so I win the race, unless I am missing something.
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  6. - Top - End - #246
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Ok, so here are my suggestions for the special rule of round 10.

    (A) Hymn of the Wilds. Each player gets an emblem with "The first creature spell you cast each turn costs {1} less to cast. You can’t cast instant or sorcery spells." Ninjaman's suggestion.
    (B) Peace. Ninjaman's suggestion, sort of the opposite of the above.
    (C) Wheel of Sun and Moon. Each player gets an emblem with "If a card would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, instead that card is revealed and put on the bottom of your library." Ninjaman's suggestion.
    (D) Reclaim. Players get a special action to choose a card from their own graveyard and put it on top of their library. Each player can use this special action only once per game. They can use it any time they have priority, even during a split second spell, and it doesn't use the stack and can't be responded to. This is a more limited version of the Wheel.
    (E) Feeding Grounds. Red spells cost {1} less to cast. Green spells cost {1} less to cast. Encourages the colors that get used less in 3CB.

    I absolutely refuse to do two-headed giant. I wouldn't like to do any of the suggestions that just gives players more mana that they can spend on anything, because some players said that they're glad the Lotuses are out and really didn't like when Mirrored Lotus entered the format.

    I'd like to call the deck submission for Return round 10 soon, so please give opinions on what special rule you'd like.

  7. - Top - End - #247
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I prefer C and D.

  8. - Top - End - #248
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    A, B, C or E
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  9. - Top - End - #249
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Preference for C.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Here's the table, according to Tom's judgement.
    G FW N P Q TM
    Gauntlet . DD LL WW LL WL 11 WaWail Revoker
    Fable Wright DD . WW WW WW WL 23 artifact creatures
    Ninjaman WW LL . WW LL LL 12 ObstinateBaloth
    Personification LL LL LL . LL LL 0 Hushbringer
    Quiddle WW LL WW WW . LL 18 NullhideFerox
    Tom the Mime WL WL WW WW WW . 24 Emrakul hideaway

  11. - Top - End - #251
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Preference for B and C.

    Looks like C is the most popular.
    Being a mime means never having to say you're sorry.

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    C or D, C > D though
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  13. - Top - End - #253
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Announcing the results of Return round 9. This could change if you find an error in the judgements or match results.

    • Gold: Tom the Mime
    Pretty fast artifact growth: Fable Wright
    Big green creature: Quiddle
    Also big green creature: Ninjaman
    Toolbox: Gauntlet
    Achievement unlocked: Personification

    Ban list for round 10.
    Spoiler: Ban list for round 10
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    Land: Blackcleave Cliffs; Celestial Colonnade; City of Traitors; Geier Reach Sanitarium; Ghost Quarter; Mishra's Factory; Mishra's Workshop; Shelldock Isle; Strip Mine; Tropical Island.

    Artifact/Colourless: Black Lotus; Blacker Lotus; Dispatch Dispensary; Emrakul, the Aeons Torn; Karn, the Great Creator; Lion's Eye Diamond; Liquimetal Coating; Lodestone Golem; Lupine Prototype; Mana Crypt; Mirrored Lotus; Mox Pearl; Mox Sapphire; Sol Ring; The Rack; Time Vault; Voltaic Key.

    White: Chancellor of the Annex; Serra Ascendant; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben; The Cheese Stands Alone.

    Blue: Jace, Wielder of Mysteries; Laboratory Maniac; Leyline of Anticipation; Piracy Charm.

    Black: Blackmail; Spike, Tournament Grinder; Street Wraith.

    Green: Crashing Footfalls; Collector Ouphe.

    Red: Wrench-Rigger.

    Gold: Research // Development.


    Return round 10 is a special Wheel of Sun and Moon round. The following special rule applies.

    Each player has an emblem with "If a card would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, instead that card is revealed and put on the bottom of your library.".

    These emblems are active from the very start of the game, even before you act on a Leylines or Chancellor. The ability of the emblem is an ordinary replacement effect, and is treated as such by the rules. For example, if your opponent has a Leyline of the Void on the battlefield, and your Lightning Bolt card would move from the stack to the graveyard, you decide whether to apply the replacement effect of the Leyline or that of your emblem.

    The regular rules of 3 Card Blind from the first post still apply otherwise. You must submit a deck of 3 cards, you start with those cards in your hand, you don't lose from trying to draw a card from an empty library, etc.

    Please submit decks for Return round 10 to me in forum private message. Please mention that they're for round 10.

  14. - Top - End - #254
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    For some reason I kept reading Hushbringer's power as 2. I am dumb.
    Stop using good evidence and logic that makes sense to refute points, that's my job
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  15. - Top - End - #255
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Some announcements.

    I'd like to leave a bit more time for Return round 10 submissions, because you can't easily prepare for a round with special rules in advance. Sadly this interferes a bit with my meatspace calendar. I'll be visiting family for Christmas next week, and I can't easily predict my schedule of when I'll post. I will freeze Return round 10 some time between 2019-12-23 11:00 UTC and 2019-12-26 21:00 UTC depending on my availability. I may also be slow to post a scoring table, announcing results, ban list, or call for submissions of the next round, but other players can post these to the thread, it doesn't need to be me.

    I'll return to having a more predictable schedule next year. I'll be hosting Return of the Magic: the Gathering vanishing 3 card blind up to round 15 inclusive.

  16. - Top - End - #256
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I apologize for the delay, I got swept away by the holiday and family matters.

    Announcing the deck submissions for Return round 10, which is a special Wheel of Sun and Moon round.

    Fable Wright: Oko, Thief of Crowns, Irrigation Ditch, Wasteland.
    Gauntlet: Bayou, Llanowar Mentor, Mind Swords.
    Ninjaman: Mutavault, Mox Emerald, Sphere of Resistance.
    Quiddle: Eidolon of the Great Revel, Mountain, Mox Ruby.
    ben-zayb: Plains, Angel's Grace, Pact of the Titan.
    Tom the Mime: Glacial Chasm, Sunscorched Desert, Zuran Orb.

    Deck explanation from Tom the Mime:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime
    Sunscorched Desert pings for 1 on odd turns, Glacial Chasm stops all sorcery speed and creature damage and the upkeep is paid each odd turn if it stops more life loss than it causes and is sacrificed to Zuran Orb on even turn upkeeps to keep it life neutral and then it gets drawn and played again straight away.
    You sent some nice submissions for this round. My faith in special rounds is partially restored.

  17. - Top - End - #257
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Shoot! A Force of Negation deck would've worked great for this round.

  18. - Top - End - #258
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    No worries, most people are a bit busy over the holidays.

    Looks like there was a nice mix this round of people restricting or punishing recursion with exile, theft, increasing costs and casting damage and people abusing the recursion for all it was worth.

    Seems like a close one and with some complicated interactions there's probably a mistake or two in there so it's all a bit up in the air still.

    X FW G N Q b T
    Fable Wright X LL DD WW LL WW 14
    Gauntlet WW X WL WW WD DD 21
    Ninjaman DD WL X WD WW LL 15
    Quiddle LL LL DL X LL LL 1
    ben-zayb WW DL LL WW X DD 15
    Tom the Mime LL DL WW WW DD X 14

    Edit: correction
    Last edited by Tom the Mime; 2019-12-30 at 03:02 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #259
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    No worries, most people are a bit busy over the holidays.

    Looks like there was a nice mix this round of people restricting or punishing recursion with exile, theft, increasing costs and casting damage and people abusing the recursion for all it was worth.

    Seems like a close one and with some complicated interactions there's probably a mistake or two in there so it's all a bit up in the air still.

    X FW G N Q b T
    Fable Wright X DD DD WW LL WW 16
    Gauntlet DD X DL WW WD DL 14
    Ninjaman DD WD X WD WW LL 16
    Quiddle LL LL DL X LL LL 1
    ben-zayb WW DL LL WW X DD 15
    Tom the Mime LL WD WW WW DD X 18
    How do you win v Gauntlet? You're forced to exile either Chasm (in which case, you won't outrace an infinite stream of elves) or Desert (in which case you can't win). Bringing that to a DD also, amusingly, brings us to a 3-way tie.
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  20. - Top - End - #260
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    How do you win v Gauntlet? You're forced to exile either Chasm (in which case, you won't outrace an infinite stream of elves) or Desert (in which case you can't win). Bringing that to a DD also, amusingly, brings us to a 3-way tie.
    Yep, I forgot about the elf recursion when I was focused on the mind swords exile. The race is closer than I would've thought with the delay from the mind swords and extra life. I think 8 elves is the optimal amount and I get him down to 3 life.
    Being a mime means never having to say you're sorry.

  21. - Top - End - #261
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom the Mime View Post
    Yep, I forgot about the elf recursion when I was focused on the mind swords exile. The race is closer than I would've thought with the delay from the mind swords and extra life. I think 8 elves is the optimal amount and I get him down to 3 life.
    Actually, double checking Gauntlet's matchups, I think he's the runaway winner. I think he's WL vs Ninjaman (since Mind Swords on the play means Ninjaman has no ability to stop even a 1/1 beatdown). I had initially thought he was WW vs Angel's Grace, except that Grace can always be cast vs Mind Swords (exiling Pact) to force an infinite draw, so that's right. He's WW vs me, since there's no window that I can use to prevent him from playing the 1/1 and casting Mind Swords, and then he can just wait to reassemble his opening hand if I Wasteland him.
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  22. - Top - End - #262
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Doesn't FW lose to Gauntlet by elf pinging?
    Edit: does it count as a ninja if it was posted hours ago and I read it before posting? [Facepalm]
    Last edited by Personification; 2019-12-27 at 02:29 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #263
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Quote Originally Posted by Fable Wright View Post
    Actually, double checking Gauntlet's matchups, I think he's the runaway winner. I think he's WL vs Ninjaman (since Mind Swords on the play means Ninjaman has no ability to stop even a 1/1 beatdown). I had initially thought he was WW vs Angel's Grace, except that Grace can always be cast vs Mind Swords (exiling Pact) to force an infinite draw, so that's right. He's WW vs me, since there's no window that I can use to prevent him from playing the 1/1 and casting Mind Swords, and then he can just wait to reassemble his opening hand if I Wasteland him.
    Yeah, same mistake as I had earlier with other Gauntlet matchups. Like I said earlier, mistakes were likely.
    Being a mime means never having to say you're sorry.

  24. - Top - End - #264
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Gauntlet winning means Mind Swords gets banned, so I'm quite happy with that.
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  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Yeah, it feels like there have been a bunch of lists I've considered that have been dropped because they get crushed by the various Mind Swords options.

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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    Fixing the table of game results since Tom the Mime vs Gauntlet was shown inconsistently, plus fixing Tom's score.
    FW G N Q bz TM
    Fable Wright . LL DD WW LL WW 14 Oko
    Gauntlet WW . WL WW WD DD 21 MindSword LlanoMentor
    Ninjaman DD WL . WD WW LL 15 Mutavault SphRes
    Quiddle LL LL DL . LL LL 1 Eidolon Mox
    ben-zayb WW DL LL WW . DD 15 AngGrace Pact
    Tom the Mime LL DD WW WW DD . 14 Glacial Sunscorched

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    If there are no further changes to the results, I annouce the winners of Return round 10, the Wheel of Sun and Moon special round.

    • Gold: Gauntlet
    Ties: Ninjaman, ben-zayb
    More ties: Fable Wright, Tom the Mime
    Cool loop: Quiddle

    Ban list for Return round 11.
    Spoiler: Ban list for round 10
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    Land: Bayou; Blackcleave Cliffs; Celestial Colonnade; City of Traitors; Geier Reach Sanitarium; Ghost Quarter; Mishra's Factory; Mishra's Workshop; Shelldock Isle; Strip Mine; Tropical Island.

    Artifact/Colourless: Black Lotus; Blacker Lotus; Dispatch Dispensary; Emrakul, the Aeons Torn; Karn, the Great Creator; Lion's Eye Diamond; Liquimetal Coating; Lodestone Golem; Lupine Prototype; Mana Crypt; Mirrored Lotus; Mox Pearl; Mox Sapphire; Sol Ring; The Rack; Time Vault; Voltaic Key.

    White: Chancellor of the Annex; Serra Ascendant; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben; The Cheese Stands Alone.

    Blue: Jace, Wielder of Mysteries; Laboratory Maniac; Leyline of Anticipation; Piracy Charm.

    Black: Blackmail; Mind Swords; Spike, Tournament Grinder; Street Wraith.

    Green: Collector Ouphe; Crashing Footfalls; Llanowar Mentor.

    Red: Wrench-Rigger.

    Gold: Research // Development.


    Return round 11 is an ordinary round with no special rules. Please submit decks for Return round 11 to me in forum private message. Please mention that they're for round 11.
    Last edited by b_jonas; 2020-01-01 at 08:56 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #268
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I'll freeze the deck submissions for Return round 11 on Thursday evening, at 2020-01-09 21:00 UTC if possible, and publish them in the thread soon after that. Please submit your decks by then.

  29. - Top - End - #269
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I have got deck submissions for Return round 11 from only four players. Per the precedent set by Tom the Mime, we need at least five players to score the round. So I'm not revealing the decks now. I'll reveal the decks after I got at least one more deck. If you haven't sent your deck for round 11 yet, please send it to me in private message.

  30. - Top - End - #270
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Return of the MTG: Vanishing Three Card Blind - Once upon a time there was a 3CB

    I had an idea but then someone made a similar deck in a previous round and I didn't want to seem like I was copying then, so I decided to sit this one out. If we need people though, I'll enter it.
    Stop using good evidence and logic that makes sense to refute points, that's my job
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