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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lukraak View Post
    I don't post often, but for this... :)

    My guess is the vessel is Thog (or whatever is left of him).
    The IFCC did mention him as one of their followers and Sabine could easily convince him of anything she wants, especially if she mentions it's revenge for Nale.
    That's actually an interesting idea. Half-alive, possessed Thog!
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I get on my phone to see the latest thread up, immediately click for the comic, and then (literally) jump for joy to see the IFCC and Qatar return, without me getting the chance to read it until a few minutes in.
    Rich was quite clear the planet in the rift is not Earth.

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I get on my phone to see the latest thread up, immediately click for the comic, and then (literally) jump for joy to see the IFCC and Qatar return, without me getting the chance to read it until a few minutes in.
    Rich was quite clear the planet in the rift is not Earth.
    Maybe Qarr has a katar?
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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Fyraltari’s [hey it autocorrected to it when I misspelled! The plan from months ago is working]
    Victory! : )
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    If he did, I didn't find it. The closest I came up with was a reference to a post in a moderator-ally removed thread implying that the current book was going to be rough for anyone who only cares about what happens to Xykon...which I don't think rises to the level of confirming "Roy-vs-Xykon will be the climax".]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Autocorrect will be the death of me, right when it starts helping me with Fyraltari it goes and does this (I think it’s stopped fighting me on the Mechane though, no methane this time).
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Being careful about what people knows you are doing is a useful trait in hell (since everyone really is against you).
    She doesn’t know what the Directors want, so she didn’t know wether they’d approve of her interference or not. Being coy about it makes sense.
    Right, so she willingly went behind their backs. Betrayal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    ‘You know that son of yours you desperately want to battle to the death and his coworker and his girlfriend whose guts you hate all of whom I use to fight all the time? They’re going to this place which is also the one place where you can stop the monster tearing reality apart on your turf. What do you say we get there?’
    "Why would I do that when that would put me on a collision course with the B-villain that the heroes are destined to defeat for me anyway? Especially when I'm fully aware that villains fighting each other is always a crapshoot?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Which is why he didn’t target Roy at all on the airship and was solely focused on Elan (after he broke Haley’s arm)?
    He only cares about Roy because Elan cares more about Roy than about him. It’s Elan he’s got beef with.
    Even if that was correct, Elan and Roy are at the same place and going to the same place.
    He didn't have time to go after Roy on the airship He boarded, told Elan he was going to kill everyone else and chop off Elan's hand, and the Vaarsuvius hit him with Bixby's something or other and he was out of the fight for the remainder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Keeping a secret from someone is not a betrayal.
    When that someone is your boss? We'll have to agree to disagree then.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Would the IFCC even survive if the gods decided to remake the world?

    I was under the impressions that the outer planes would be remade as well...

    That's supported by the fact that the IFCC don't even know about previous worlds, so they were created together with this one.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellye View Post
    Would the IFCC even survive if the gods decided to remake the world?

    I was under the impressions that the outer planes would be remade as well...

    That's supported by the fact that the IFCC don't even know about previous worlds, so they were created together with this one.
    We have to wipe all the Outsiders' memories every time we remake the world because they go a bit nuts if we don't.
    But who knows how much they are aware of what's going on (they might well retain older memories or have no clue about it).
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Right, so she willingly went behind their backs. Betrayal.
    Didn’t hurt them or her in the slightest.

    "Why would I do that when that would put me on a collision course with the B-villain that the heroes are destined to defeat for me anyway? Especially when I'm fully aware that villains fighting each other is always a crapshoot?"
    Because you are insanely obsessed with beating Elan and not letting Roy steal his thunder.



    He didn't have time to go after Roy on the airship He boarded, told Elan he was going to kill everyone else and chop off Elan's hand, and the Vaarsuvius hit him with Bixby's something or other and he was out of the fight for the remainder.
    He attacked Elan specifically and started monologuing to him. He only cares about Roy insofar as to how he influences Elan. He even offered to fund Roy when he realized he was losing.

    But let me ask you. If not the Vector Legion, then who do you think the IFFC calls their ‘followers’?

    When that someone is your boss? We'll have to agree to disagree then.
    Do you tell your bosses everything you do?

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    We have to wipe all the Outsiders' memories every time we remake the world because they go a bit nuts if we don't.
    But who knows how much they are aware of what's going on (they might well retain older memories or have no clue about it).
    The IFCC did not know about the Snarl until Sabine told them. And they did not know about the world in the rift when Blackwing looked but the knew when they called V down. It looks like they gained a source of info we don’t know about (possibly Tiamat as she has her numbers).
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-10-21 at 04:32 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #130
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Right, so she willingly went behind their backs. Betrayal.
    By that logic, Belkar betrayed Roy by getting his Protection from Evil clasp, something he did behind Roy's back. And was neither asked nor encouraged to do since Roy didn't believe that Greg had been using Dominate Person on Belkar to make him jump off the ship repeatedly.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by gatemansgc View Post
    this was my thought too. she can change her shape into anything as long as it's the same skin color.
    Hair color stays the same too.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Do you tell your bosses everything you do?
    Her arrangement with them seems a heck of a lot more involved than just collecting a paycheck to me. But like I said, agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    "Because you are insanely obsessed with beating Elan and not letting Roy steal his thunder."
    "Wrong, I want Elan to come back and beat me. You still haven't said anything about how this harebrained non-plan will achieve that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    He attacked Elan specifically and started monologuing to him.
    He sundered his weapon to keep him from interfering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    But let me ask you. If not the Vector Legion, then who do you think the IFFC calls their ‘followers’?
    You mean the same VL that didn't even know about the gates until Nale told them, even though Sabine had known for months? Some followers.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    I was expecting somebody to say "oh crap, that was a cutaway scene right now, wasn't it? That means an enemy is preparing to attack us" or words to that effect.
    I think it happened before in OOTS, but I don't remember where?

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The IFCC did not know about the Snarl until Sabine told them. And they did not know about the world in the rift when Blackwing looked but the knew when they called V down. It looks like they gained a source of info we don’t know about (possibly Tiamat as she has her numbers).
    Wait, how do we know
    A) that they didn’t know about the world in the rift before Blackwing looked? Saying they don’t understand why the bird is just staring (in the middle of a really tense situation) does not necessarily imply that they don’t know, just that they think it isn’t as important at that moment as what’s going on outside.
    B) that (assuming they didn’t know of the world pre-Blackwing stare) they learned about the world through some new method, rather than simply aiming their scry-TV into the hole sometime after getting temporarily confused over Blackwing’s fascination with it? Or, possibly, they have a fiendish Teevo (which we know at least one has) recording everything V does, and some intern charged with looking over the tape saw Blackwing telling V exactly that.


    Also Re: ongoing discussion on the “vessel:” why do we think it’s a person? Given the prior conversation, it seems more likely to be a vessel for the artifact they’re discussing, and thus likely inanimate—a means of further transport for it, to safely move it from orange-fiend’s domain (I forget which one they were).
    Last edited by NobleCuriosity; 2019-10-21 at 04:54 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Ooh! Things just got much more interesting.
    Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2019-10-21 at 04:51 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ratfox View Post
    I was expecting somebody to say "oh crap, that was a cutaway scene right now, wasn't it? That means an enemy is preparing to attack us" or words to that effect.
    I think it happened before in OOTS, but I don't remember where?
    When Pete sold them out to the Thieves guild, his old pal detected the cutaway panel and inferred some enemies had found him.

    Ah here it is, strip 602: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0602.html
    Last edited by NobleCuriosity; 2019-10-21 at 04:58 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenstep View Post
    Those rubies exist, so they could be used for something else. Simulacrum was already pointed out, but is there any bard/cleric spells that also require rubies?
    SRD list of spells with Ruby in the description:

    Continual Flame (Cleric, Sorcerer/Wizard)
    Analyze Dweomer (where a ruby is part of the focus rather than a component, this is a bard spell and also Sor/Wizard)
    Faerie Fire (Druid only)
    Simulacrum (Sor/Wizard only)
    Temporal Stasis (Sor/Wizard only)
    Forcecage (Sor/Wizard only)

    Rubies (plural) gets no hits that are spells.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Hey has Qarr’s color been changed? It looks a bit lighter than before.

    Also I feel like Qarr’s skin now matches the hands of the IFCC which is something.
    Spoiler: Read this if I've posted a theory in the post above
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    "A sufficiently big wedge of cheese is indistinguishable from an aircraft."

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniccups View Post
    That's actually an interesting idea. Half-alive, possessed Thog!
    Sounds like Gregor Clegane!


    ETA: Wait, now that I think about it, that also sounds like Crystal. I think we've been there and done that and already have the T-Shirt
    Last edited by alwaysbebatman; 2019-10-21 at 05:35 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    I preferred the fiends having black hands, or regular stick-figure hands. The red hands are kind of scary, but just make me think of buzzards' necks for some reason.

    Also, heh, I was just rereading the first appearance of the fiends, so it was a bit jarring to see them in the new style.
    Last edited by NihhusHuotAliro; 2019-10-21 at 05:25 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sniccups View Post
    That's actually an interesting idea. Half-alive, possessed Thog!
    Rich already did that with Crystal, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Lampert
    SRD list of spells with Ruby in the description:

    Continual Flame (Cleric, Sorcerer/Wizard)

    Analyze Dweomer (where a ruby is part of the focus rather than a component, this is a bard spell and also Sor/Wizard)

    Faerie Fire (Druid only)

    Simulacrum (Sor/Wizard only)

    Temporal Stasis (Sor/Wizard only)

    Forcecage (Sor/Wizard only)

    Rubies (plural) gets no hits that are spells.
    Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking that up.
    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2019-10-21 at 05:29 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Her arrangement with them seems a heck of a lot more involved than just collecting a paycheck to me. But like I said, agree to disagree.
    Okay.



    "Wrong, I want Elan to come back and beat me. You still haven't said anything about how this harebrained non-plan will achieve that."
    The same way getting on his ship was supposed to.



    He sundered his weapon to keep him from interfering.
    So?



    You mean the same VL that didn't even know about the gates until Nale told them, even though Sabine had known for months? Some followers.
    The IFCC did not need new followers until Nale and Z died and Thog was buried under rubble. And the Directors didn't know abput the Gates until Nale told Sabine either.
    EDIT: Also isn't "in the dark about what's going on" how the Directors like their pawns? They've witheld intel with everybody we've seen them with.
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    Wait, how do we know
    A) that they didn’t know about the world in the rift before Blackwing looked? Saying they don’t understand why the bird is just staring (in the middle of a really tense situation) does not necessarily imply that they don’t know, just that they think it isn’t as important at that moment as what’s going on outside.
    Because even if they didn't think it was important they'd know it is surprising hence they'd understand Blackwing staring in confusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    B) that (assuming they didn’t know of the world pre-Blackwing stare) they learned about the world through some new method, rather than simply aiming their scry-TV into the hole sometime after getting temporarily confused over Blackwing’s fascination with it? Or, possibly, they have a fiendish Teevo (which we know at least one has) recording everything V does, and some intern charged with looking over the tape saw Blackwing telling V exactly that.
    I guess that's possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by NobleCuriosity View Post
    Also Re: ongoing discussion on the “vessel:” why do we think it’s a person? Given the prior conversation, it seems more likely to be a vessel for the artifact they’re discussing, and thus likely inanimate—a means of further transport for it, to safely move it from orange-fiend’s domain (I forget which one they were).
    People are saying it's a person? I missed that. Anyway I don't think we have enough to speculate about the vessel for now (or the artifact for that matter).
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2019-10-21 at 05:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    And now to read through the thread in search of things to reply to... (and read all of it in order to make sure things weren't already replied to, and keep track of everything, which is a bit of an exercise in madness even with only five pages)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Hmm, does anyone recall what happened to the talisman Nale was after? Weren’t the Directors the one that tipped him about it in the first place? What was that chekov’s Gun longevity record again?
    Wasn't Hilgya the one who was looking for something for someone? Didn't she discuss it with Durkon in the dungeon? (I haven't reread that part of the story in a while and don't really have time to do so right now, so if someone with a better memory/more time than me can provide links, it'd be greatly appreciated!!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Regarding Artifacts, someone mentioned the one Nale & Co were after in the Dungeon of Dorukon. Sadly (or happily, your opinions may vary), the Talisman of Dorukon is no longer available.
    Okay, so I guess it was Nale after all?? (Also, side note, but seeing Durkon and Hilgya happily holding hands while rereading #56 via your link made me both happy and sad, because they look so happy together, but then their relationship ended up having serious issues. Not trying to start another discussion about Hilgya, just thought I'd share.)

    Quote Originally Posted by HeraldOfExius View Post
    Given that letting Girard's gate get destroyed cost them one of their claims on V's soul, I'm curious to see what they would consider to be an actual cost.
    Wait, was letting Girard's Gate get destroyed part of trying to get Hel to succeed?? (The plot is this comic is really complicated and I'm having trouble thinking through everything right now, sorry!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward15 View Post
    I think they were referring to Hel's scheme. Since they weren't involved in it, they didn't have to expend any resources.
    So Girard's Gate wasn't included in what they were mentioning? That's how I initially read it, too...

    Quote Originally Posted by TRH View Post
    I don't think they even knew there was a fight until after the fact. Their TV was smashed, and right before they sent V back they assumed that all that was happening up top was just "more family angst." So they certainly had no dog in a fight they didn't know about.
    But if Sabine had spoken more loudly to V and they had heard her then they might have figured out their was a fight and opposed Sabine helping V in it??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sc00by View Post
    I'm sure someone already corrected this, but Xykon is basically Redcloak's shotgun and Redcloak is the Dark One's pawn and the real enemy is either the Snarl or the Dark One, or possibly both, depending on whether you are a God or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I thought the Giant had confirmed that the story would climax with the final Roy vs Xykon battle but I can’t find that quote.

    Let’s christen the new thread: Summon Banana VI!
    What about that quote about the Snarl being a maguffin, or the setting not being the antagonist, or something like that? I forget whether the Giant specified that the story was about the Order vs. Xykon or just that the main point wasn't the Snarl. I'm probably mixing up a couple different quotes in my head now, dang it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrožila View Post
    As for the goal of the archfiends, I suspect destroying the world is not their goal but rather a means to achieve that goal. Perhaps they want to do something during the demolition that will result in the Snarl getting out and killing the gods?
    Hmm, Outsiders (so the IFCC) wouldn't be destroyed by the Snarl even if the gods and mortals all were, would they? But don't they still want/need (at least some of) the gods to survive so they can recreate the world and mortals so that the fiends can get more souls? I don't know how D&D works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan View Post
    As a quick little idea, maybe we're going to do a brief check-in on the various enemies of the Order before the book ends, much like we have in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html
    With us next flashing to maybe O-Chul and Lien, and then Team Evil(Xykon and company), before we cut to black.
    Maybe, but if so I think it'll be mixed with scenes of the Order (perhaps as this strip was), because I think we'll get to see them leaving on the airship. Plus there's some unfinished business; mainly the issue of Sigdi's (potential) arm regeneration (and possibly also Durkon getting to drink dwarven beer, as someone mentioned in another thread - and maybe mentioning that someone's going to go look for that dwarf who got teleported away, though probably not).

    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    Hey has Qarr’s color been changed? It looks a bit lighter than before.

    Also I feel like Qarr’s skin now matches the hands of the IFCC which is something.
    Wait... wait... what if one of them is secretly Qarr's father!! (yes, I'm only joking, I know they're not the same species... actually wait are they???)
    "The genealogical trees at the end of the Red Book of Westmarch are a small book in themselves, and all but Hobbits would find them exceedingly dull." -J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Because even if they didn't think it was important they'd know it is surprising hence they'd understand Blackwing staring in confusion.
    Surprising enough to noticeably stop dead with a hostile epic lich breathing down Blackwing’s neck? I see your point (and think you’re most likely correct on them not knowing pre-stare), but I also won’t cry foul if Rich later reveals they did know at that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post

    People are saying it's a person? I missed that. Anyway I don't think we have enough to speculate about the vessel for now.
    Yeah, I’m inclined to agree. Literally the only thing we know for sure about the vessel is that Sabine is delivering it/them. Not a lot to go on.
    Last edited by NobleCuriosity; 2019-10-21 at 05:41 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    "Vessel" could be anything really but until right now it didn't occur to me that there's other possible senses aside from "person to be possessed by a demon", which readily suggested itself due to who's doing the talking here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrožila View Post
    "Vessel" could be anything really but until right now it didn't occur to me that there's other possible senses aside from "person to be possessed by a demon", which readily suggested itself due to who's doing the talking here.
    That's how I initially read it too, but all the fiends we've seen can show up on the material plane in their own bodies and Sabine is bringing the vessel to the Lower Plane which would be kind of weird if the point was to take a fiend out of there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hrožila View Post
    "Vessel" could be anything really but until right now it didn't occur to me that there's other possible senses aside from "person to be possessed by a demon", which readily suggested itself due to who's doing the talking here.
    They've used "vessel" to refer to a body before, it'd make a lot of sense for Sabine to view finding a body as mixing business with pleasure, the next world could be Eberron and the IFCC's "artifact" is actually a quori spirit from the future that can't act on the material plane without a host (even if it isn't an "actual" Empty Vessel raised and trained for the purpose of being possessed)....Okay maybe the last part isn't serious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    They've used "vessel" to refer to a body before, it'd make a lot of sense for Sabine to view finding a body as mixing business with pleasure, the next world could be Eberron and the IFCC's "artifact" is actually a quori spirit from the future that can't act on the material plane without a host (even if it isn't an "actual" Empty Vessel raised and trained for the purpose of being possessed)....Okay maybe the last part isn't serious.
    Oh, well spotted. So "vessel" can be simply a body, not a person.

    This only makes Demon Thog even more inevitable.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    That's how I initially read it too, but all the fiends we've seen can show up on the material plane in their own bodies and Sabine is bringing the vessel to the Lower Plane which would be kind of weird if the point was to take a fiend out of there.
    While Sabine, Qarr, and a few other minor characters have appeared on the material plane, dialogue from the IFCC on this page suggests to me that they're either incapable or unwilling to manifest physical bodies on the material plane. Might have something to do with the high rung they collectively occupy on the infernal scale? I've read debate before on how powerful the IFCC are, exactly, since high-tier demon/daemon/devil lords are a fundamental equivalent to gods in some D&D settings. (and Tiamat's deal with them suggests that they're strong enough that she, a full-fledged goddess, can't simply order them around at a whim.)
    Last edited by KatsOfLoathing; 2019-10-21 at 06:55 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1183 - Discussion Thread

    I'm assuming these guys are setting up for next book. I look forward to more forcecages in the meantime though.
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    Anarion's right on the money here.
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