PrC Evaluation Thread

[RexDart]

I was thinking it might be worth a one level dip just to get Song of Strength, but the general restrictions on Greater Dragonsong (essentially "You can't do anything else even vaguely related to using magic while it's active") shoot down that idea.

[liquidformat]

I was thinking it might be worth a one level dip just to get Song of Strength, but the general restrictions on Greater Dragonsong (essentially "You can't do anything else even vaguely related to using magic while it's active") shoot down that idea.

Yeah I was thinking that at first too, if Greater Dragonsong was an improvement to bardic music (levels in Dragonsong Lyrist stacks with bard to determine DCs, each level of Dragonsong Lyrist added another use of bardic music, and bardic music feats interact with Greater Dragonsong) this would be a great class, especially since it doesn't require bardic music as a prerequisite so it would be a way to get bardic music, in that case I could see the class closer to the 10-15 range of scores. As is though it is the worst possible setup.

[Endarire]

Using this thread's system, how would you rate the Incantatrix, Spelldancer, Spellguard of Silverymoon, Ruathar, Shadowcraft Mage, Red Wizard, Planar Shepherd, Contemplative, Hathran, Halruaan Elder, Master Specialist, Archmage, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Ruby Knight Vindicator?

[Kalkra]

Using this thread's system, how would you rate the Incantatrix, Spelldancer, Spellguard of Silverymoon, Ruathar, Shadowcraft Mage, Red Wizard, Planar Shepherd, Contemplative, Hathran, Halruaan Elder, Master Specialist, Archmage, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Ruby Knight Vindicator?

Those are a lot of classes to ask for evaluations of. He's going in order, and it takes time. Regardless, he already did Archmage, it's on page 2, I think.

[Mike Miller]

Using this thread's system, how would you rate the Incantatrix, Spelldancer, Spellguard of Silverymoon, Ruathar, Shadowcraft Mage, Red Wizard, Planar Shepherd, Contemplative, Hathran, Halruaan Elder, Master Specialist, Archmage, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, Jade Phoenix Mage, and Ruby Knight Vindicator?

The setting specific stuff is pretty low on my list as I see some of the ones listed are. Also, as noted above I am going in order. I skipped Red Wizard because I'm not familiar with the mechanics (circle magic, for example) and RW is a setting specific thing. I have a couple more to post, I just have to find the time to update the front posts and get to it.

[Mike Miller]

Dragonstalker
1)
The flavor text would have you believe you can both sneak up on a dragon and kill it before it even knows you're there. Let's remember that for later. The chassis is fine with a d8 HD, full BAB, good REF and WILL and 4 skill points per level. First level has Hunting Bonus for a skill bonus equal to class level against dragons for a few skills. Disguise isn't on this list so you miss a possible synergy with Hide Scent later.
Second level is a narrow sneak attack usable only against dragons. It does stack with normal sneak attack, but only against dragons. This increases every other level.
Third level has an interesting lgnore Natural Armor once per day that does what its name implies. lt goes up to twice a day at seventh. You just ignore NA with one attack, which can be pretty useful. Hopefully scintillating scales aren't in play...
Fourth, sixth, seventh, and eighth are effectively dead levels with the only benefits being sneak attack and INA progression.
Fifth level has Hide Scent, which does what you'd expect. You can hide your own or someone else's scent with a disguise check.
Foil Blindsense comes in at ninth level and yet again has a literal use. Once per day you are not locatable through blindsense.
The final unique ability is Dragonstrike, which is basically auto-bane (dragon). Every weapon you wield against a dragon has an additional +2 enhancement bonus and +2d6 damage. It explicitly stacks with bane (dragon) though. That is a weak capstone.
I wanted to like this class, but it doesn't seem right. It feels like a smashup of ranger and rogue with an explicit lock on dragons. You won't be useless against other creatures, but you won't be a rogue. You also don't have the more useful features of a ranger, such as combat abilities, spells, or A.C. The class probably could have been condensed into five levels, but that doesn't seem right either. I'll let you decide if this class could sneak up on a dragon and kill it before the dragon knows what happened. 5/14

2)
Rangers and Rogues are the intended entry point. For some reason, bards are brought up as well. Why you would stop being a bard for this, I don't know. At least Ra/Ro are similar thematically with Dragonstalker. The rogue is the better comparison as far as opportunity costs go. DS has some interesting things that mesh well with rogues. I think the downside is that you hamstring yourself in that your SA progression becomes tied with dragons. I would rather just stay rogue so that l can always be relevant! Rangers have so much more going on. They can do FE Dragon and still have other FEs. They have combat abilities, spells, and an animal companion. I just don't see DS being a wise option over simply specializing the aforementioned classes. DS is too niche to justify the levels. 0/4

3)
The prereqs are not great. I mentioned earlier how it is a less good ranger/rogue. The skill reqs alone make that entry obvious. BAB 5, blind-fight, Track, and a whopping 26 allocated skill points across gather info, hide, k. arcana, move silently, and search mean you are likely intentionally entering this. You won't stumble upon these prereqs with most builds. The language req is just a tack on. I won't rank this up with archmagi and the like, but it definitely isn't something to be brushed off. 1/2
Dragonstalker 6/20
sorry for typos due to mobile

[Saintheart]

I went to have a look at the Disguise Scent and Foil Blindsense abilities, and was even more disappointed than I already was. Darkstalker gives you these and a lot more, lets you do it all day long, and doesn't smack you for a -10 on a Disguise check to get around the dragon's Scent ability. What dragons do they think are meant to be stalked by this thing, wyrmlings?

[Blue Jay]

What dragons do they think are meant to be stalked by this thing, wyrmlings?

So maybe they should have called it "Dragonpedophile" instead of "Dragonstalker"?

[liquidformat]

I went to have a look at the Disguise Scent and Foil Blindsense abilities, and was even more disappointed than I already was. Darkstalker gives you these and a lot more, lets you do it all day long, and doesn't smack you for a -10 on a Disguise check to get around the dragon's Scent ability. What dragons do they think are meant to be stalked by this thing, wyrmlings?

Yeah that was my first thought looking through the class, second thought was if it gave you darkstalker at level 5 and SA was general and not only on dragons it would be a decent class. Over all the class is rather disappointing, even hunters bonus is glaringly missing things like hide/move silently and disguise, INA can't be used often enough to be useful, and it would be nice to get some fear resistance/ immunity if you're meant to be hunting dragons. I think 6/20 is fair.

I will comment hitting the skill prerequisites isn't too hard for a ranger given access to dumpster diving ACFs but you would be specifically doing it.

So maybe they should have called it "Dragonpedophile" instead of "Dragonstalker"?

that went dark fast...

[lylsyly]

Although I did have fun with it once (it was a build outside of this threads parameters in a game where dragons were plentiful but weaker in power)

1. Because Disguise isn’t on the Hunting Bonus skill list and it would specifically benefit Hide Scent

I will say: 4/14

1. Can’t Disagree with: 0/4

1. Because of the feat tax and too many required skill points: 0/2

4/20

I firmly believe they often were simply adding stuff from the fluff and not paying much attention to the mechanics.

0r was it an attempt at game balance by folks that didn't really grasp the concept?


​;-)