PrC Evaluation Thread

[Mike Miller]

Sentinel of Bharrai

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1)

The SoB is a force of good aimed towards protecting and preserving nature. It also has the best acronym.
The chassis is standard wizard style: d4 HD, half BAB, good WILL, 4 skill points per level, and full casting. Alchemy is a class skill. Stuff like that is why I mentally consider the BoED as 3.0 material in spite of its publication date.

First level is sort of crap. You can cast energy spells as nonlethal towards plants and animals to preserve nature. Also, Track as a bonus feat.
Second level sees the repetitive gain of a single energy resist 10, your choice from a set of four. You get it four times, so you’ll have them all eventually.
The fun comes with third level, where you can just take on bear form forever. Yup, polymorph style at will into black, brown, or polar bear as long as you meet the HD req of polymorph. “Well guys, I hate lying to you. I’m actually a bear.” You can pretend to be the druid’s animal companion. You can steal pic-a-nic baskets without fearing the law. You can bail out of the class after enjoying your three level dip. Really, anything could happen now.
For some reason there is another ability at 3rd level, as if “I feel like being a bear now” mode wasn’t enough. You can also cast a quickened call lightning spell once per day. I’m pretty sure the correct way to do this is quickened call lightning, transform into bear, and let out maniacal laughter/roar. That should include a decent intimidate bonus…

I don’t even know how to continue the evaluation after that. All I can do is picture bear-lightning. Well, 4th level is a bust with another energy resist.

5th level is Nature’s veil, which is a bonus to hiding in natural settings. It is ok, but it isn’t HiPS.
6th is another bust, energy resist.
7th adds dire bear shape to your form list. Also, you can heal like a paladin’s lay on hands.
8th is the final energy resist.
9th is interesting though. Only once per week, but you call 1d6 dire bears with max HP (for some reason). The downside being if you don’t take proper care of their corpses (assuming they die when called) you are less likely to successfully call them the next time.
The capstone is a quickened lightning storm once per day.

To recap, the SoB has the best acronym and is actually a bear who summons bears. 15 / 14

In actuality, I dislike the repeated energy resist levels. They are another example where it feels like dead levels. Sure, those resists might come in handy, but it is likely few and far between. Also, that first level is basically a dead level. The hiding in nature is pretty weak as well. The once per day/week stuff is fun but very limited. As silly as the bear stuff can get, it probably isn’t all that useful. Polymorph is a thing and wildshape is a thing. Sure, you can bear all day every day, but it is just one form. You aren’t gaining movement speeds or anything special. 9 / 14

2)
The easy thing about full casting PrCs is that base full casters typically don’t have class features. The comparison comes down to which is better: something or nothing? Hmmmm, tough call. The wizard gives up bonus feats for a slew of bear-ability. I think two feats are decently offset by what the SoB has to offer. Other entries aren’t as easy because of the knowledge reqs, but a druid probably wouldn’t consider this such a hot take. The druid already has a bear and can already bear a lot. In fact, the druid eventually makes bears look bad. Druids also have plenty of lightning capability and healing. I wouldn’t take levels in SoB over straight druid. Sorcerer definitely loses, as it has even less going for it class-feature-wise than wizard. The fluff mentions clerics taking SoB, and I suppose they’re in a similar boat. They don’t really have class features to speak of, so why not bear it up if you’ve put the effort into getting knowledge (nature)? 3 / 4

3)
I get hung up on skill points a little too readily, but it always bugs me when clashing knowledge skills are required at equally high ranks. Arcana and Nature are not common base class skills together. If you aren’t entering as wizard, you have to make more effort to get in early. Otherwise, spell craft and two feats. Vow of Obedience is kind of a crappy feat for a PC. It is great for a DM both as filler for NPCs and as plot-railroad fuel. 1 / 2

Sentinel of Bharrai: 13 / 20

[Edea]

Not a fan, mainly due to the prereqs; Vow of Obedience sounds like carte blanche for the DM to play your character for you.

[Troacctid]

What's wrong with energy resistance? Energy resistance is great. It's like a 50k value.

[Edea]

Oh, the class itself is fan-freaking-tastic. UMD on-list and a slew of abilities, none of which suck (probably the worst thing on there is the Track feat; bear in mind your familiar or animal companion's generally an animal for that 1st level feature), and no lost caster levels? Um, yes please?

The problem's that prereq. You really need a DM who's not going to be a buttnugget about your Vow of Obedience, which isn't reliable.

[Wildstag]

The Energy Resistance 10 is an Extraordinary ability, which really makes it better in my mind. It can't be shut down by any option that affects magic. That's a really good ability.

I can see this as being a good upgrade to a Mystic Ranger. At least to me it's a useful option. Also, it can be worth it for a 3 level dip. The bear form is dependent on character level and not class level, so you could dip into it. Granted, by the time you can actually get the bear shape, you're high enough in level to get the Polar Bear form. It just seems like a poorly worded ability, unless it is meant to imply you can turn into an advanced form of the bear (I'm not fully up to snuff on straight Polymorph effects). Even getting 5 levels is helpful to a Mystic Ranger, only putting you behind on 3 bab, but getting 5th level spells on time.

And then from there, Warshaper only serves to make the form better.

[Mike Miller]

Skylord

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1)
The PrC is an odd one and very niche. It has a good chassis and includes spellcasting progression even though it doesn’t really need to. Most of its abilities revolve around weather and seem likely to be unused in most campaigns.

The Skylord has a d10 HD, full BAB, good FORT and REF saves, 2 skill points per level, all knowledge skills (for some reason), proficiency in all simple and martial weapons, all armor, and shields (!), and 5 / 10 casting progression. This is an excellent start.

At first level, it can call a flying mount, which has abilities like a familiar. Eyes of the Eagle provide a bonus to spot checks when airborne.

Ride the Wind at second level decrease ranged attack penalties in adverse weather conditions as well as allowing improved movement in said weather.

Third level sees a bonus to ride checks with mounted combat. This increases every other level to a max of +8. This is good, but you aren’t penalized for losing a mount (other than not having a mount). It doesn’t cost you XP like a familiar or even gold. You just need to meditate again. It is better to keep it alive, but four levels of a PrC that only receive a bonus to mounted combat…

At fourth level, Deadly charge adds 2d6 damage to a charge while riding a flying mount. It doesn’t say while flying, just a flying mount. The earliest you would see this is level 11. Tacking on 2d6 to a charge attack is underwhelming at level 11.

Sixth level has storm kinship, which allows for better sight and perception in storms.

Then at tenth, the Skylord can summon a tempest once per week. Underwhelming, again

I find this class to be very underwhelming, campaign specific, and way too long. It could easily have been a five level PrC and didn’t need spell casting progression. The spell progression really only helps Ranger entry. Casters aren’t going to be taking this class. I feel as though a one level dip for the mount is your best use of this class. 5 / 14

2)
As for opportunity costs, the text indicates barbarians, fighters, druids, and rangers are likely contenders. Why a druid would take Skylord, I can’t say. Maybe they just hate themselves. Due to the spellcasting progression, I would say ranger fits the best. As for the role Skylord takes on, I can’t think of a good way to move or see in a storm except maybe freedom of movement and magical sight. The PrC does its niche role well and if you want a flying mount, you are likely better off with Skylord than without as far as barbarian and fighter go. Ranger loses its combat mastery, HiPS, and its final two FEs. It just barely has fourth level spells, which will be less impactful due to the delay. FoM should overcome storm movement, so Skylord really only does ranged combat in a storm better. This feels generous, but 2 / 4.

3)
The prereqs are pretty easy. If you are going for a mount, you’ll want handle animal and ride. The likely entry points have those as well as full BAB. That just leaves relevant mounted feats and an exalted feat. This PrC actually has prereqs that feel like you are building up to the class! 2 / 2

Skylord: 9 / 20

[GrayDeath]

Not a fan, mainly due to the prereqs; Vow of Obedience sounds like carte blanche for the DM to play your character for you.

Indeed.
Also it doesnt fit a Nature Protector OR Bear, so we always house ruled it as: Requires ANY TWO Exalted Feats.
Being a Bear is fun though, and may even be workable (not good, as outside extremely magic item poor worlds it never is) VoP Candidate.

[Wildstag]

I don't think there's much to talk about here with the Skylord. It's kinda just "if you want it, you're going into a very specific niche for it". Its full bab and partial spell progression are alright I guess, and it certainly provides more than some other PrCs, but it doesn't make you any better, just makes you a more specialized warrior.

As for the VoP and Sentinel, I think that's a separate discussion, since the design intent is often ignored. As it stands, by being a polymorph effect instead of analogous to Wild Shape, the bear form has even less magic item support. VoP would be a better solution for people intent on staying in bear form for as long as possible, just because they can't benefit from items that work with Wild Shape. You'd need GM approval to get there.

[Troacctid]

As for the VoP and Sentinel, I think that's a separate discussion, since the design intent is often ignored. As it stands, by being a polymorph effect instead of analogous to Wild Shape, the bear form has even less magic item support. VoP would be a better solution for people intent on staying in bear form for as long as possible, just because they can't benefit from items that work with Wild Shape. You'd need GM approval to get there.

Why don't you just take the items off, shift into a bear, and put them back on?

[noce]

Why don't you just take the items off, shift into a bear, and put them back on?

Not doable in many situations.
In any social situation you are a human, so polymorphing means you're a naked bear.
Even in dungeons you may have to revert to human to cross a narrow passage, and your magic items falling on the ground is not great.
Furthermore, you should get two different armors, even if we're going to assume that a bear can wear gloves and boots: there's no way for a bear to wear a human armor (no, not even Beastskin).

[Mike Miller]

Slayer of Domiel

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1)
The SoD is basically a Good assassin. It has a d6 HD, 4 skill points per level, 3 / 4 BAB, good REF, and custom spell casting. The similarities between this and assassin are plentiful: death attack vs death touch, sneak attack, and unique spellcasting. The spellcasting is worse than the assassin’s and really only sees quality spells at 4th level.

I don’t care for the assassin’s death attack and I don’t care for the SoD’s death touch. As a melee touch attack, roll d6s per class level to meet or exceed the living, [Evil] opponent’s current HP to [Death] them. Meh! If they were that low on HP, HP damage would be simple enough, with rare exception. The progression is bizarre and looks as though I made it, with the way I like to spread abilities so there are no dead levels. At first level you have 1 use. Then it goes up at level 4 to 2 uses, level 8 sees 3 uses and 10 is 4 uses. Also, all odd levels provide sneak attack, as usual. Detect evil is fairly standard at will. (pun intended?)

2nd level sees Divine grace as we all know and love it.

And to make all those virtual dead levels feel broken up, you get Improved Evasion at level 6.

As far as being a good aligned assassin, I guess this works? It just feels like a lousy replica of the assassin’s death attack with alternate spellcasting. I think you’d be better off convincing your DM to all the DMG Assassin to be entered without the Evil prereq. Does this class work? Sure. Is it useful? Well, it has full sneak attack and spellcasting, so you can definitely make something out of it. Is it interesting and versatile? Not really. 8 / 14

2)
I always enjoy seeing the text’s interpretation of who enters the class. Rogues, former assassins, and additionally monk, fighter, paladin, sorcerer, cleric levels are associated with this. This is a similar issue to the last one. Skylord had casting progression that didn’t really need to be there. This one has a unique spell casting progression that is then prefaced with casters entering it without hope of progressing their casting. I know I haven’t gone over the prereqs yet, but trust me, caster levels don’t help enter this class.

I’ll just stick with Rogue and Assassin, because you need a relatively high 3d6 sneak attack to get in, along with evasion. Those prereqs scream rogue. The big comparison to me for rogue is am I better off with the special ability of the higher levels of rogue or am I better off with death touch and limited spellcasting. I think SoD wins with the spellcasting, as the most useful rogue special ability in my mind is improved evasion (which SoD receives). I don’t think it is worth it to bail out of Assassin for SoD. Assassin has better spells, better support, and a better death attack. Even if you wait for the RP change from evil to good until have you complete assassin, there are better things to do with your remaining levels. Slapping some levels of monk, fighter, sorc, or cleric seem questionable at best. You aren’t doing much for meeting prereqs and there isn’t much synergy with likely play style. At best, they seem like neutral options. 2 / 4

3)
The prereqs are nothing to sneeze at. Sneak attack +3d6 is the largest req, but you also need evasion and hide/move silently ranks. Unfortunately, the fun way of meeting the lower +2d6 prereqs of other classes by means of late entry to swordsage 1 is not applicable. The two exalted feats are not great and actually make it 3 feat prereqs. Sanctify Martial Strike requires weapon focus, but also CHA 15. All of this taken together seems borderline major to me. I will go with medium though. 1 / 2

Slayer of Domiel: 11 / 20

[liquidformat]

Well to be fair there is already the avenger class for non evil assassins so SoD is even less important. I like that death touch isn't just death attack in another name but sadly it sucks and is worse than death attack which is a shame. Besides that don't have much to add, this thing should beat out assassin for a cha focused rogue since it has divine grace

[Edea]

The chassis isn't too bad, but those pre-reqs are abominable. Death Touch is not worth the blown feats; I think you're better off just dipping Pal 2 if you want DG that badly (it doesn't help that Pal and this PrC have the same alignment pre-req).

[Troacctid]

Here's the secret about the death touch. You don't use it in combat. You use it after you've knocked out an enemy and they're bleeding out on the ground. It auto-kills them, and since it's a death effect, they can't come back from the dead afterwards.

[Jervis]

Skylord is fun but the existence of Skymage makes it almost pointless to me. Its good for martials but if you want a spellcasting progressing flying mount class just go with the one that has 5 free feats and lets you ride a nightmare at ECL 6 and a Linnorm by ECL 10. It's half as long and three times more fun.

[Wildstag]

Slayer of Domiel is one of those PrCs in the Book of Exalted Deeds that annoys me for its alignment restriction. Given that the book seems to cater towards Good being a broader subject, found in Chaotic, Neutral, and Lawful characters in equal measure, and that Exalted behavior is rare even among Good creatures, it is disappointing for so many options require Lawful Good.

Its class features are boring and kinda weak-looking. If Death Touch damage were dependent on character level instead of class level, it'd at least look better, but even then the average of 20d6 would only be 70 damage, which is paltry. I could easily dish out far more damage just by swinging a sword, especially if I'm a dedicated evil-slayer. Also the fact that it is limited to living evil creatures means that you are seriously hindering yourself since undead make up a significant portion of evil creatures near the higher levels, at least in my experience.

[Kalkra]

I'll mention that as a prepared caster the SoD does get access to Sanctified spells. They're even in the same book. It doesn't help a lot, but it helps a little.

[liquidformat]

I'll mention that as a prepared caster the SoD does get access to Sanctified spells. They're even in the same book. It doesn't help a lot, but it helps a little.

I'm disappointed that it is wis based casting which makes it less desirable for a rogue, I guess maybe going in as a ninja would give you some synergy or multiclass sword sage...

[Mike Miller]

phew, reality has been busy
Stalker of Kharash

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1)
Stalker of Kharash is a hunter and tracker of evil. The chassis has a d8 HD, full BAB, good REF saves, proficiency with martial weapons, and has full ranger spell progression. If you go in with no ranger levels, it won't provide spells until the 4th level, just like a normal ranger! They went with the oddly specific route here instead of just "pick a class to add levels to" as normal.
The abilities could easily have been condensed into five levels, so it feels like way too many dead levels.
To cut it short and simple, everything does what it sounds like. Smelling evil, favored enemy evil, tracking evil, smiting evil, and HiPS somewhere in the middle. The class somehow spreads those five abilities across ten levels with a weak spell progression. There is nothing impressive here 5 / 14

2)
The only entrance that really makes sense is one that includes Ranger levels. Otherwise you are at least weakening an already subpar spell progression. Even so, I just don't see this one winning out on opportunity costs. The ranger abilities are better than the selective evil stuff of SoK. It is interesting to consider gaining ranger casting on a straight rogue, but you are trading away your sneak attack progression and higher level special abilities for these niche ones. In an incredibly specific campaign, it could work. 0 / 4

3)
The prereqs are straightforward medium. Relatively easy skill ranks with 3 feat taxes that you just don't want to see. 1 / 2

Stalker of Kharash 6 / 20

[liquidformat]

I think you are looking down on Stalker of Kharash too much, sure going all 10 levels sucks but as a 2 or 4-6 level dip this is quite good. Opportunity cost going that 2 or 4-6 level dip compared to straight ranger levels I think this comes out at least equal, ranger level 12-20 really suck and are basically dead levels, also note that SoK's HiPS is strictly better than Ranger's and you have access to it significantly sooner. As a two level dip this is also quite a good class for rogue though a bit painful to get due to needing three feats.

Also taking Nemesis (Evil) is pretty incredible almost any build is better having blindsight evil 60' and +1d6 damage to evil characters. I think this should get 3/4 for the second group

For prerequisites going straight Ranger entry with Urban Companion ACF the character only needs to take Favored of the Companions feat, and a straight ranger even without Urban Companion only requires 2 feats so I think this is 2/2 for prereqs.

10/20 for Stalker of Kharash

[Mike Miller]

I finished rating all of the remaining BoED PrCs. I just need to find the time to put the posts together.

[Mike Miller]

Swanmay

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1)
Swanmays are protectors of wilderness from evil. Their name comes from the ability to turn into a swan "for mobility." This one has a gender prereq, which I will reiterate is even more arbitrary than the other fluff prereqs I dislike. Anyway, the chassis is decent: d8 HD, full BAB, good FORT, 4 skill ranks per level, and 9/10 casting progression.
Shifting is like wild shape except it is only the form of a swan. The swan has a fly speed of 60 ft (avg) and 10 walking so I suppose the mobility is strictly for wide open areas in good weather when you can't teleport. It starts out at 1/day and eventually gets to 5/day. The class also starts with SR 12+PrC level, which isn't bad. Also, wild empathy continues to progress.
2nd level is favored enemy of choice.
3rd is low light vision
4th is charm person 3/day
5th speak with animals at will
6th speak with plants at will
7th charm monster 2/day
8 and 9 are dead levels
10th is Fey Transformation, which changes type to Fey and gains DR 10/cold iron, which is useful.
There are useful things here, but also not so impressive ones. Speak with animals is both a prereq and a class feature... Two dead levels back to back at the end of the class? The chassis is good and the features have their uses... I don't know how to feel about it overall though. 8 / 14
2)
Druid and Ranger are the expected comparisons. Druid loses out on wild shape and animal companion progression so it is a no-brainer to stick with druid instead. Ranger delays or loses out on abilities that Swanmay doesn't make up for. It would be nicer for a class with no class features, like a sorcerer. 1 / 4
3)
The skill and language reqs are fine. The feats are an irritating tax. Speak with animals and wild empathy are specific and then the special is mostly fluff. I don't know of all the classes that gain wild empathy, but ranger and druid are the obvious ones. Being forced into a base class is also irritating. No individual req seems too much, but taken together? I can't justify anything better than major: 0 / 2
Swanmay 9 / 20

[Mike Miller]

Hahahaha finally finishing off the Book of Exalted Deeds, all four remaining PrCs of goodness.

Sword of Righteousness
1)
Excessive exaltedness. You know that is gonna be good! /pun
It is a refreshingly short PrC with 3 levels, full BAB, good FORT and WILL, d8 HD, and 4 skill points per level. It just gets a bonus exalted feat each level. That is all...
This is a straightforward filler class for an exalted character, There isn't much to say, good or bad. How to rate something like this? It does what it sets out to do. If you like exalted feats, you
get 3 of them. The downside being it doesn't do much else. If you wanted to gish, you are down 3 CL. No special progressions (sneak attack, etc.). I guess I'll go 11/14 for being short and sweet
but fairly specific in character usage.
2)
If you want bonus exalted feats, this is the way to go. 1 per level, full BAB... Even fighter only gets bonus feats every other level. (heh) At 3 levels, you aren't sacrificing much. Seems fine to
me for a "dip." 4/4
3)
Prereqs are minor. Basically just BAB and two feats... 2/2
Sword of Righteousness: 17/20, because it doesn't really do anything specific, but if you just want exalted feats it is good stuff

Troubadour of Stars
1)
These are gifted musicians and champions of good, which leaves the suggestions of bards and sorcerers. As most people they go alone or as part of a group. Thanks fluff text! They have d6 HD, 6 skill points per level, 3 /4 BAB, good REF and WILL, and 5/10 casting progression. I'm sure the casting progression alone will deter some folk. ToS levels stack with bard levels for bardic music, which reinforces the bard entry. They can also detect evil, because why not?
At second level, ToS can cast spells as it an eladrin. Also, a new bardic music ability: Holy Cacophony. It hampers evil creatures' ability to cast spells or use SLAAs.
3rd Star Mantle one per day- nice
4th dead level
5th Song of Hope: good aligned gain +2 morale bonus on saves, attack rolls, ability checks, skill
checks, wpn damage rolls as if affected by Good Hope. Also, new save vs fear, despair, or
similar mind-affecting condition excluding charm person et al
6th can cast sanctified spells
7th Eladrin Form as per spell 1/day
8th dead level
9th Celestial Symphony: Holy Word replica 30 ft nongood creatures
10th Celestial Ascension: becomes Outsider (native) DR 10/unholy
Dead levels really irritate me. There is no excuse for them. I like these music uses. I like star mantle even if it is only one per day. I've downplayed the sanctified spells in the past and have
had their uses pointed out so I will not get into that (they are good /pun). Honestly, this seems like a good bard class. The biggest downside is the 5/10 spell casting progression and secondly
the lateness of the start. 12/14
2)
With stacking bardic music, I think this is a strong competitor against bard levels. The slow caster progression hurts, but it could be made up for if the campaign is primarily involved with
Evil enemies. Extra bard stuff vs original spells. A sorcerer, as the text suggests, is obviously going to be worse off. You are maxing out at 7tn level spells, even if you do gain the nice
sanctified spells. You are also missing out on other higher level PrCs (which I don't usually bring up, but most PrCs typically are available about 5 levels earlier) such as archmage and lotSV to
name a couple. 3 /4
3)
The prereqs are fairly minor, mostly being automatic. Perform ranks come naturally along with 4th level spells. Really the feat is the only "must take" issue and although it isn't great, it is still better than seeing "Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Toughness" 2/2
Troubadour of Stars 17 /20

Vassal of Bahamut
1)
The VoB has a d10 HD, full BAB, good FORT, class specific spell progression, all simple and martial weapons, all armor and shields but tower shields, and 2 skill points per level. The VoB opposes evil dragons and are likely to come from paladins, fighters, rangers, and barbarians (supposedly).
At first level, the VoB gains Imperious aura and Platinum armor. The former is a CHA bonus in dealing with dragons and the latter is a lovely mwk suit of armor that instantly disintegrates if anyone else puts it on. Knowing this makes me want to hunt down Vassals of Bahamut just to put their armor on while they sleep. Best prank ever!
Second level is Dragon senses and Shared Trove, in addition to starting spells: Low light and darkvision, free money, and spells from their own spell list, respectively. The spell list is small, but acceptable.
Bonus feats at 3, 6, and 9 are from a list that I want to call "Fighter bonus feat light."
Fourth level is Dragonwrack, which deals permanent hit point drain to dragons. Funl
Fifth is more free money
Sixth is just the bonus feat
Seventh is +numbers
Eighth is free money
Ninth is bonus feat
Tenth is +numbers
Four levels of abilities and six levels of repeating abilities. This definitely feels like it could have been condensed, but here it is. With so few spells per day and none focused on dragon slaying, the casting feels tacked on last moment. If it had shivering touch, the go-to dragon slaying spell, it would have felt more tailored for dragons. Anyway, the platinum armor is nice, as is free money and bonus feats. However, it doesn't really feel like much of it builds towards the purpose of slaying dragons except dragonwrack. Yes, the VoB can fight dragons, but it isn't really special in that department. 9/14
2)
Using the suggested prereqs as a starting point... Paladin loses out on its own spellcasting, which is similar to the VoB. I'd say it is pretty even here. If you really fight dragons all the time, VoB is better than straight paladin. I think a straight fighter would be better if you accept the fact that you will still have money for things and your feats can allow you to fight similarly to the VoB without being Obedient. The ranger is probably better than the VoB due to a better spell list and better class features. I think VoB comes out ahead of barbarian though, as both can do the charging stuff and what barb has doesn't really do dragon-fighting better. 2/4
3)
The prereqs are middling. The BAB and skill ranks are easy. The two feats suck as previously mentioned (Vow of Obedience). The special is interesting: single-handedly slay juvenile or older red dragon. Depending on how single-handedly your DM plays it, this could be tricky. If your character doesn't know the dragon is at % HP, is it still single-handedly? Does the dragon have to be at full health and full status? Etc... Worst case scenario, this is a zero of two because it can be difficult to solo a dragon as a martial. I'll still go with 1/2
Vassal of Bahamut: 12/20

Wonderworker
1)
They sacrifice some of their spellcasting to grow closer to goodness. Oh dear, this is off to a bad start. So, you give up spellcasting progression to instead get a bonus exalted feat each level and bonus spells per day. Hmmmm....no.
The WW has a d6 HD, 1/2 BAB, good WILL, and 4 skill points per level. Every level is the same: just a bonus exalted feat and bonus spells per day. 3 levels. Lose 3 caster levels for 3 bonus exalted feats. Ungh
I will note that rating a 3 level PrC feels odd compared to the 10 level PrCs. WW does what it says: sacrifice casting for exaltedness.. Too bad that makes you a less effective character. (something something, gestalt maybe?) 3/14
2)
Do I need to say more? 0/4
3)
Prereqs: At base will save +5, it could take a while to reach it. However, you must also have 3 level spells/powers so it is fine. The two feats are exalted. I say minor. 2/2
Wonderworker: 5/20

Draconomicon is next, sorry for the slow progress. Reality is time consuming.

[Saintheart]

I'm just happy this thread is back, I love watching walls being built brick by brick! Seriously, keep going, there's not a few occasions where I open up the forum and think 'Wonder if there'll be another PrC evaluated today...'

[Edea]

I feel like Wonderworker was supposed to be psionic? But then someone else caught hold of it and was like "NO, to hell with psionics" and just gutted it immediately before printing.

[Mike Miller]

I'm just happy this thread is back, I love watching walls being built brick by brick! Seriously, keep going, there's not a few occasions where I open up the forum and think 'Wonder if there'll be another PrC evaluated today...'

I won't give up on it. My spare time varies from weeks of it to none at all for weeks, which is why I never made a claim to how frequently I would post!

I feel like Wonderworker was supposed to be psionic? But then someone else caught hold of it and was like "NO, to hell with psionics" and just gutted it immediately before printing.

I can't help but think a lot of stuff WotC printed over the years was treated with that response.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I think Sword of Righteousness is rated too high, personally. But yeah, being 3 levels definitely makes it a weird one... I'd probably call it 15/20 at most, losing one point from comparison to base class (being 3 levels down is going to hurt anyone but maybe Fighters and Barbarians) and one from prereqs (2 feats is normally pretty reasonable, but for just a 3 level class that's spending a lot for a little, especially when one of them is guaranteed to be a dead feat).

Oh, and I'm also happy to see the thread back!

[noce]

Sword of Righteousness

About Sword of Righteousness, two feat prereqs for three bonus feats doesn't seem great to me.
On top of that, consider that most Exalted feats are nothing great.
Furthermore, bonus feats suffer for the same reason why Fighter 20 is a bad choice: you're taking the better ones early, so giving you more and more feats from the same list suffers from diminishing returns.

I'd say:

• 9/14: I must admit full bab, two good saves and decent skill points is a good base, but is it really giving you anything else you like? Exalted feats are mostly bland, and skill list is nothing great either.
• 2/4: In three levels you give up two feats and get three, so you're +1 above standard. Three levels of fighter give you between 1 and 2 feats, and from a better list. And fighter is definitely not great.
• 1/2: Two feats are two feats, you're restricted in 1/3 of alignments (and exalted at that), and bab 6 means you can't use this prc as an early filler (for example before entering Champion of Gwynharwyf).

It's 12/20 for me.

Troubadour of Stars

You're giving up 5 caster levels, meaning you're getting 5th at level 16 and 6th NEVER.
What you get:

• A song that forces a pointless concentration check everyone will pass
• A song that reproduces a 3rd level spell you've access to
• A song that reproduces a spell that will do nothing to enemies while deafening the party rogue, since dangerous enemies are always higher level than you
• Two good spells each usable 1/day
• Access to a subset of situational low level spells (since you will not have access to medium level spells)
• Nice DR at character level 20

I'd say:

• 7/14: It gives something, it's just enough to set the trap. I give 7 because at least you're not losing on the chassis.
• 1/4: Compared to bard, you lose about 10 spells known and 10 spells per day, and the only good things you get are a couple SLAs and DR.
• 1/2: A worthless feat, and restricting you in 1/6 of possible alignments for a bard (and exalted at that)

It's 9/20 for me.

I'm ok with the other two.

[liquidformat]

About Sword of Righteousness, two feat prereqs for three bonus feats doesn't seem great to me.
On top of that, consider that most Exalted feats are nothing great.
Furthermore, bonus feats suffer for the same reason why Fighter 20 is a bad choice: you're taking the better ones early, so giving you more and more feats from the same list suffers from diminishing returns.

I'd say:

• 9/14: I must admit full bab, two good saves and decent skill points is a good base, but is it really giving you anything else you like? Exalted feats are mostly bland, and skill list is nothing great either.
• 2/4: In three levels you give up two feats and get three, so you're +1 above standard. Three levels of fighter give you between 1 and 2 feats, and from a better list. And fighter is definitely not great.
• 1/2: Two feats are two feats, you're restricted in 1/3 of alignments (and exalted at that), and bab 6 means you can't use this prc as an early filler (for example before entering Champion of Gwynharwyf).

It's 12/20 for me.



You're giving up 5 caster levels, meaning you're getting 5th at level 16 and 6th NEVER.
What you get:

• A song that forces a pointless concentration check everyone will pass
• A song that reproduces a 3rd level spell you've access to
• A song that reproduces a spell that will do nothing to enemies while deafening the party rogue, since dangerous enemies are always higher level than you
• Two good spells each usable 1/day
• Access to a subset of situational low level spells (since you will not have access to medium level spells)
• Nice DR at character level 20

I'd say:

• 7/14: It gives something, it's just enough to set the trap. I give 7 because at least you're not losing on the chassis.
• 1/4: Compared to bard, you lose about 10 spells known and 10 spells per day, and the only good things you get are a couple SLAs and DR.
• 1/2: A worthless feat, and restricting you in 1/6 of possible alignments for a bard (and exalted at that)

It's 9/20 for me.

I'm ok with the other two.

I have to agree with noce on both of these, the juice isn't worth the squeeze in either case. Troubadour of Stars doesn't give you enough to justify all its taking away.

Sword of Righteousness I think should actually be 10/20 because at best you are breaking even since exalted feats are mostly garbage, you enter at level 7 +, and it has an ok chassis. To be honest I can't think of a situation where I would take this over three levels of one or two base classes which have no entry requirements (or at least none besides alignment) which means 0/4 in the second category.

[Mike Miller]

I definitely didn't consider the 5 / 10 casting enough for ToS