OoC Age of Worms (Take Three)

[Albinobrow]

I added up the wealth that Olofire was carrying from the previous game, and not including some minor items (ink, parchment, flint/steel, etc.) the total wealth carried when we stopped was approximately 11,775gp. Several of the potions/elixirs were found during our run through the dungeons.

But how would you like me to handle that? Drop loot till the wealth matches 10,500gp for characters of 5lvl? Divvy it up?

[Albinobrow]

I think my ultimate goal for Olofire will be Alchemist (Chirurgeon/Vivisectionist) 10/Unchained Rogue 4/Master Chymist 6.

Definitely no more than 6 levels of Master Chymist, and I'll keep rogue at 4 levels.

Thoughts?

[DarkOne-Rob]

But how would you like me to handle that? Drop loot till the wealth matches 10,500gp for characters of 5lvl? Divvy it up?

When adding everything up did you consider any item-crafting feats (like Brew Potion)? Any potion you have that you could have crafted would cost you half-price. If that brings the total below 10,500 GP then you are good. If it isn't enough, then I would recommend we bring the total of items down to match everyone else.

Definitely no more than 6 levels of Master Chymist, and I'll keep rogue at 4 levels.

Why the Rogue levels? Long term alchemist is a stronger class...is this just for Ttapfinding?

[Albinobrow]

When adding everything up did you consider any item-crafting feats (like Brew Potion)? Any potion you have that you could have crafted would cost you half-price. If that brings the total below 10,500 GP then you are good. If it isn't enough, then I would recommend we bring the total of items down to match everyone else.


Why the Rogue levels? Long term alchemist is a stronger class...is this just for Ttapfinding?

I’ll figure out the math on those potions and take another look later today.

The rogue levels were already there when I looked at my sheet again. When I looked again he is Alchemist 2/Unchained Rogue 3. If I remember correctly, at first he was straight alchemist, but I think we trained into rogue. I believe the intent behind the rogue levels were 1) so we had more roguish capabilities (trapfinding especially) mechanically and 2) since he started delving into dungeons with the party, someone needed to handle all the traps in that one dungeon and he is smart enough to figure it out. (Story driven)

[DarkOne-Rob]

That all makes sense. I am just not sure that adding additional levels of Rogue makes much sense.

Since we played last there have been some significant improvements to what is possible with PC builds. For example, VMC Rogue gets many of the best features of the Rogue class (Trapfinding at level 3, Sneak Attack, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge) in exchange for some feats. Is that something you would want instead of the lost levels of alchemical/spell progression?

[Albinobrow]

That all makes sense. I am just not sure that adding additional levels of Rogue makes much sense.

Since we played last there have been some significant improvements to what is possible with PC builds. For example, VMC Rogue gets many of the best features of the Rogue class (Trapfinding at level 3, Sneak Attack, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Uncanny Dodge) in exchange for some feats. Is that something you would want instead of the lost levels of alchemical/spell progression?

VMC Rogue? I forgot that was a thing! I'll look into that too and let you know.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Look here for details.

[Albinobrow]

I got rid of all my elixirs and that plus having made the potions brings my wealth down to 10,525gp.

As for advancement, my main concern with VMC Rogue is losing out on 5 feats for the build, some earlier survivability, and quite a bit of damage loss. At least not without really digging deep into the feats I want/need.

On the other hand with VMC Rogue I can get up to 6th level Extracts.

Here are the quick breakdowns I see for potential builds for Olofire:

Spoiler: Option 1 (Alchemist 10/Unchained Rogue 4/Master Chymist 6)

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Feats: 10 advancement feats/Brew Potion (Bonus)/Weapon Finesse (bonus)/2 more potential bonus combat feats through Rogue Talent

Abilities: 10d6 sneak attack/trapfinding/Evasion/Danger sense +1/Dex dmg to claws/Debilitating Injury/Uncanny Dodge/Cure Infusions/Anaesthetic/Power Over Death/Torturous Transformation/Bleeding Attack and or Crippling Strike Options/5th level Extracts/Swift Alchemy/Swift Poisoning/Mutate 3 times a day/Brutality +2/Mutagenic Form/3 Advanced Mutagens/5 Discoveries

Spoiler: Option 2 (Alchemist 20/VMC Rogue)

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Feats: 5 Advancement feats/Brew Potion (Bonus)

Abilities: 10d6 sneak attack/trapfinding/Evasion/Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge/Cure Infusions/Anaesthetic/Power Over Death/Torturous Transformation/Bleeding Attack and or Crippling Strike Options/6th Level Extracts/Swift Alchemy/Swift Poisoning/Poison Resistance +6/Persistent Mutagen/Instant Alchemy/9 Discoveries/Grand Discovery

Spoiler: Option 3 (Alchemist 10/Master Chymist 10/VMC Rogue)

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Feats: 5 Advancement feats/Brew Potion (Bonus)

Abilities: 10d6 sneak attack/trapfinding/evasion/uncanny dodge/Improved uncanny dodge/Cure Infusions/Anaesthetic/Power Over Death/Torturous Transformation/Bleeding Attack and or Crippling Strike Options/6th Level Extracts/Swift Alchemy/Swift Poisoning/Poison Resistance +6/6th level Extracts/Mutate 5 times a day/Brutality +6/Mutagenic Form/5 Advanced Mutagens/5 Discoveries

Spoiler: Option 4 (Alchemist 14/Master Chymist 6/VMC Rogue)

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Feats: 5 Advancement feats/Brew Potion (Bonus)

Abilities: 10d6 sneak attack/trapfinding/evasion/uncanny dodge/Improved uncanny dodge/Cure Infusions/Anaesthetic/Power Over Death/Torturous Transformation/Bleeding Attack and or Crippling Strike Options/6th Level Extracts/Swift Alchemy/Swift Poisoning/Poison Resistance +6/Persistent Mutagen/6th level Extracts/Mutate 3 times a day/Brutality +2/Mutagenic Form/3 Advanced Mutagens/7 Discoveries

Thoughts on these? And I'm open to suggestions from the party as well if you all have any thing.

[Untarr]

Untarr, what do you think about our new PCs knowing each other from Greyhawk somehow? It might be easier to introduce two new characters if there's some pre-existing connection between them.

Questions/comments/suggestions?

I don't think that is out of the question. My backstory is a well-to-do accountant/wizard who discovered some cooked books during his work. Finding several obstacles in his way to figure out what is going on, he manages to uncover just enough information to lead him to diamond lake.

I had already planned for him to have been a fellow student with Dr. Olofire. If you have anything in mind, let me know.

I know you already posted, but I can certainly take up some of that background and we can flesh it out later.

[MuffinMan]

Actually I like the connection with Olofire! I had been thinking of Greyhawk for the shaman character, but the cleric is easy enough to explain in terms of orders from the church. Having the two “professional” PCs connected in some way is a nice touch.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Builds

Note - VMC Rogue will NOT give you full progression of Sneak Attack. It only gives 4d6 by 19th level. If that changes your calculus I would understand.

That said, higher level extracts trumps almost anything else for an Alchemist, IMO. Your mileage may vary, though.

[Albinobrow]

Note - VMC Rogue will NOT give you full progression of Sneak Attack. It only gives 4d6 by 19th level. If that changes your calculus I would understand.

That said, higher level extracts trumps almost anything else for an Alchemist, IMO. Your mileage may vary, though.

The alchemist I've been running was Vivisectionist/Chirurgeon so that he could help up on the front lines. Vivisectionist sacrifices the bombs for sneak attack. Story-wise, being a doctor he knows where to hit/cut someone to deal the most damage. He wasn't into explosives. Instead he preferred healing and improving the physical capabilities (mutagen). That's why he became a Dr.

The VMC rogue would mainly be for the traps/evasion/uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge. But those don't come up until much later. Being a Vivisectionist also kind of makes the Sneak Attack from VMC Rogue moot. Unless they stack? I doubt they would though.

[DarkOne-Rob]

Being a Vivisectionist also kind of makes the Sneak Attack from VMC Rogue moot. Unless they stack? I doubt they would though.

What is the total amount of Sneak Attack dice would your get outside of VMC Rogue? If the total is 6 or so, then I would probably rule that by taking VMC Rogue your Sneak Attack would scale as a full Rogue (one die every odd level).

[Albinobrow]

What is the total amount of Sneak Attack dice would your get outside of VMC Rogue? If the total is 6 or so, then I would probably rule that by taking VMC Rogue your Sneak Attack would scale as a full Rogue (one die every odd level).

Vivisectionist

This gives sneak attack just like the rogue. +1d6 every two levels beyond 1st .

[MuffinMan]

Lydia's Sense Motive against Amearin's Bluff: (1d20+11)[25]

[MuffinMan]

DarkOne, I realized that I actually don't know what Lydia's official rank within the Heironean church would be! It might become relevant soon in defining her relationship with Frederick, so I thought I should get some clarification!

What I had in mind for her experience was a short career in the Grayhawk military, training as an officer of the guard and maybe even leading a small sortie or two before formally training (being recruited?) as a priest of Heironeous. As a 5th level PC she's not completely green, but not a senior-ranked official either.

I'm game to RP it either way, with her outranking Frederick or vice-versa. Or maybe Frederick's role as a paladin is outside the standard church heirarchy, and so it isn't clear who outranks who. That could be interesting.

FarmerBink, any thoughts or preferences from you?

[Farmerbink]

FarmerBink, any thoughts or preferences from you?

I'm not sure. You and I spoke briefly about their developing relationship (for everyone else's benefit, this will be a classic case of "I have to work with you, but I don't have to like you" for a while. Don't be weirded out by our apparent animosity for one another), and as you mentioned, their relative ranks (or odd lack of direct relationship there) will quickly become at least relevant.

Points that might be relevant:
-Frederick will not like the church sending a higher-ranking person to oversee him (his perception, perhaps not the reality)
-Frederic will be suspicious if they send someone low-ranking to "help deal with" a major threat, though it would affirm Lydia's claim that they perceive it as a fake apocalyptic event.
-Ultimately, something will seem off if church officials sends someone who isn't at least a seasoned, competent agent.

I would really like a hard answer from Rob how he wants that to go, so we can plan and coordinate accordingly.

[DarkOne-Rob]

FarmerBink and MuffinMan - can we set up a telephone or FaceTime conference call? It would be much easier to explain in a conversation there than via text.

[Untarr]

Knowledge: Religion - (1d20+10)[11]

To see if Amearin recognizes the non-salute

[MuffinMan]

DarkOne, FarmerBink and I chatted. For everyone else, the TL;DR about Frederick and Lydia's relation is this:

Clerics and paladins play different roles in the faith and have different "chains of command", so there isn't a clear hierarchy of rank between them. The situation is unusual/annoying for both PCs: Lydia for being sent to investigate some random apocalypse rumor (in Diamond Lake of all places), and Frederick for receiving heightened supervision/scrutiny from the church.

So it'll be intentionally awkward as we navigate what this assignment means to each PC and how they understand their duties in relation to each other. Should be fun!

[Albinobrow]

Untarr! I'm sorry friend I thought I had replied to your question, but it appears I never actually posted it. I'll write up a response again now.

[Untarr]

I had to be extremely brief this morning. I just got behind. I'll do better in the future.

[DarkOne-Rob]

I had to be extremely brief this morning. I just got behind. I'll do better in the future.

Short posts > no posts. Don't sweat it!

[DarkOne-Rob]

I want to take this moment to explain that the next encounter(s) could be complicated, but if you manage it well it doesn't have to be too complicated.

There are eight groups of lizardfolk, ranging from 4-5 individuals in each group. Some of these groups are led by named enemies, others are led by a lizardfolk with class levels in a PC class. I do not recommend fighting them all at once in open war unless you make generous use of battle-field control spells and/or area-of-effect damage magic. Just the sheer mass and number of attack rolls will eventually be too much for you all.

Inside the keep there are still soldiers defending. If you choose to use magic or other means of contacting them (a Message spell is one option - you may think of others) then you could attempt to coordinate with them. They are not going to be able to turn the tide of this battle without you, but they could help you get into the keep or keep some of the lizardfolk engaged while you fight the others.

Finally, these lizardfolk are not mindless fanatics - they are warriors with morale and a desire to stay alive. You can (and should, IMO) scare off some and eventually turn the tide of battle enough that they all flee.

TLDR: I would encourage you all to talk strategy and put together a plan. If you want to charge into battle, I will let you, but similar to the fight with the Hextorites (from which the party learned the value of caution) I cannot guarantee success if you strategy is lacking...

[JWallyR]

Statblock for Janstina, please feel free to review for our upcoming combat.

Janstina Silentall
F Chaotic Good Gnome Sorcerer, Level 5, Init 4, HP 37/37, Speed 20
AC 17, Touch 13, Flat-footed 15, CMD 11, Fort 2, Ref 4, Will 4, CMB -1, Base Attack Bonus 2
Acidic Ray Ranged (1d6+1/2lvl, x2)
Dagger Melee (1d3-2, x2, 19-20)
(+4 Armor, +2 Dex, +1 Size)
Abilities Str 6, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 23
Condition Mage Armor, 2 hrs: +4 Armor to AC

[Farmerbink]

Staying ~20 feet behind whoever's next, to hopefully offset ranged penalties to perception:

(1d20-5)[10] stealth

[DarkOne-Rob]

Some pre-combat rolls:

Stealth rolls (Enemy is in unfavorable conditions, distracted, and considering distance)
Amearin (1d20+14)[27]
Frederick (1d20+6)[8] <-- the lizardfolk hear as he begins running towards them, no surprise round
Jan (1d20+16)[29]
Lydia (1d20+12)[13] <-- the lizardfolk hear as she begins running towards them, no surprise round
Olofire (1d20+26)[29]

Lizardfolk Perception
Leader - (1d20+3)[10]
All other lizardfolk (1d20+1)[15], (1d20+1)[10], (1d20+1)[18], (1d20+1)[2]

Amearin Initiative (1d20+8)[22]
Jan Initiative (1d20+4)[9] <-- Higher modifier than the lizardfolk, the PCs all go first!

Lizardfolk Initiative (1d20+1)[9]

[DarkOne-Rob]

Round 1, PCs
Olofire's charge attack, MW Dagger (1d20+13)[15], (19-20/x2) (1d20+13)[24], (1d3)[1] damage + (3d6)[9] Sneak Attack, (1d3)[1] Critical Strike damage (Miss)
Frederick's charge attack, +1 Falcion (1d20+12)[31], (18-20/x2) (1d20+12)[32], (2d4+7)[15] damage, (2d4+7)[11] Critical Strike damage (Confirmed Critical Hit)
Lizardfolk Saving Throws vs Color Spray DC 18, Unconscious/Blinded/Stunned (2d4)[5] rounds, Blinded/Stunned (1d4)[2] rounds, and Stunned for 1 round
Lizardfolk Fighter (1d20+2)[5] (Fail - Blinded and Stunned)
Lizardfolk (1d20)[18] (Pass), (1d20)[8], (1d20)[12] (Fail - Unconscious, Blinded, and Stunned), (1d20)[5] (out of area of effect)

[DarkOne-Rob]

Round 2, PCs
Glitterdust, DC 19 Will (All fail and are blinded for 5 rounds)
Lizardfolk Barbarian (raging) (1d20+2)[18]
All others (1d20)[4], (1d20)[1], (1d20)[10], (1d20)[7], (1d20)[13]

Lizardfolk Ranger's Perception check to notice the Glitterdust spell automatically passes (DC -9 due to spell effect, taking into account distance, distraction, and unfavorable conditions). However, the ranger lacks spellcraft and does not know what it is seeing...He will have someone investigate in (1d3)[3] rounds. Due to the entire group being blinded, their cries will force him to react to them next round.

[JWallyR]

So we didn't talk about the Message, but something like "We are here to help! Keep the lizardfolk's attention on the keep and we will kill as many as we can!" seems reasonable.