Thoughts on the Tarrasque

[Dausuul]

The tarrasque's Will save is only +20, it's not immune to mind-affecting or compulsion magic, and dominate monster has no Hit Die limit.

Just in case your party tank wasn't feeling ineffectual enough at 20th level.

(Actually, I think its real purpose is to be mind-controlled by the BBEG.)

[Callos_DeTerran]

*cough* For the record more information has been published on the Tarrasque from what essentially amounts to a splatbook (It has official D&D content). ...And the only things of real import this has is...

Wow. I forgot to multiply by 24. That was embarrassing. That significantly increases the area a party would need to search. To over 200000 square miles. However, natural terrain would probably significantly lessen that, and the fact that realistically if you're planning on beating the Tarrasque, you'll probably have flight capability, and how hard would it be to look for a hole in the ground big enough to fit something as big as the Tarrasque?

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....Which makes it harder to find since you have to dig/shape earth down were it melted down and hope it didn't turn sideways or anything along the way. And if you do find it and attack it's just as likely to melt even farther away as it is to eat the creature who attacked it.

-This same article (which is about the tarrasque) implies that there isn't just one tarrasque...theres just their really really spread out. (Like say...one every five material worlds maybe...if your unlucky)

-I still think the negilgence of putting ability drain into the Tarrasque's immunities is a typo, for all the other things it's immune against it just doesn't make sense for it to be vulnerable to ability drain...thats why my Tarrasque's usually have a couple extra words in their stat blocks to cover glaring weaknesses..(And before anyone says it, no I don't mean like giving it wings or spellcasting, I try and at least stay true to the monster's original idea. )

[Kantolin]

I think one of the irritating points of the Tarrasque is the immunities which are supposed to make him a good encounter.

I mean, I believe the typical encounter with any monster from the MM is assumed to be:

"The well-rested and fully-healed PCs step out of the cave where they've been for the past two weeks or so. They stretch, as their eyes adjust to the sunlight. The thudding noise they've been hearing as they near the cave now comes into view around the corner - it's the Tarrasque, who is just as surprised to see the PCs as the PCs are to see it. Roll for initiative."

That seems to be the typical way 'encounters' are setup. The trouble is, due to the Tarrasque's immunities, this tends to lead to a lot of non-fights: "We can't possibly hope to harm it." or, "Hey, we're set up properly. We auto-beat it." with nothing in between.

You could prompt more of the first response by putting something important in the immediate way. "Oh no, if we don't stop the Tarrasque /now/, he'll go eat that town which we do not want eaten!" You can then prompt more of the second response by placing some method of obtaining an 8 hour gap.

Either way, the Tarrasque fails in my mind as there's rarely/never a 'fight' involving him. Maybe a mildly annoying trek for a frame of time.

[Lokey]

Ok, I do remember drowning Big T in Allips as being one of the easiest pretty sure methods. What else would this work on...I don't think intelligent enemies would have much problem. Also I note that Allips are listed as solitary in their association, I wonder if that would affect how DMs deal with summoning swarms of them.

Dominate Monster, ick. Hopefully the DM can find someone to throw Protection from Good/Evil on the beasty ;)

I for one welcome our new Allip overlords.

[martyboy74]

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....Which makes it harder to find since you have to dig/shape earth down were it melted down and hope it didn't turn sideways or anything along the way. And if you do find it and attack it's just as likely to melt even farther away as it is to eat the creature who attacked it.

That's really handy. It makes plan B* much easier.

*Plan B:
1. Put the Tarrasque in a big hole.
2. Fill hole with water (Create Water, Dectanter of Endless Water, etc.)
3. Watch the Tarrasque drop to -1 hit points, and stay there, because regeneration does not restore hit points lost to suffocation.
4. ???
5. Profit by selling

[martyboy74]

-The Tarrasque has no lair. When it's done eating it finds a suitably large amount of earth and melts into it. Doesn't dig or make a hole or anything, just melts down far enough that it doesn't think it'll be disturbed and goes to sleep....Which makes it harder to find since you have to dig/shape earth down were it melted down and hope it didn't turn sideways or anything along the way. And if you do find it and attack it's just as likely to melt even farther away as it is to eat the creature who attacked it.

That's really handy. It makes plan B* much easier.

*Plan B:
1. Put the Tarrasque in a big hole.
2. Fill hole with water (Create Water, Dectanter of Endless Water, etc.)
3. Watch the Tarrasque drop to -1 hit points, and stay there, because regeneration does not restore hit points lost to suffocation.
4. ???
5. Profit by selling

Of course, this plan relies on you hunting the Tarrasque down. It's not nearly as effective if he's awake.

[Chronos]

I'm happy that you can put together a level 9 character that can reliably find a way to deal almost 900 points of damage followed by a miracle in one round. the fact that you must optimize to that point probably says something about it's power.

If you're able to catch it asleep (as the description suggest you should be able to), then a level 5 fighter with a single core-rules feat and a nonmagical weapon should be able to pull it off. Power Attack for full on a coup-de-grace with a scythe: Even accounting for damage reduction, and even with Big T's insane Fortitude save, that's enough damage that he only makes his save on a natural 20. The failed coup-de-grace save does 840 subdual damage to him, of which he heals 40. The next round, you do the same thing, and so on. Sure, the level 5 fighter can't get a Wish or Miracle to finish it off, but he can spend a few days each month re-damaging it to keep it unconscious, and go on other adventures meanwhile.

[Istari]

And I could beat him at level 4 (or was it 5?)...with a kobold divine minion.

I was thinking the same thing.

[martyboy74]

You can't Coup de Grace with a damage type that is converted into nonleathal damage by regeneration.

[Callos_DeTerran]

That's really handy. It makes plan B* much easier.

*Plan B:
1. Put the Tarrasque in a big hole.
2. Fill hole with water (Create Water, Dectanter of Endless Water, etc.)
3. Watch the Tarrasque drop to -1 hit points, and stay there, because regeneration does not restore hit points lost to suffocation.
4. ???
5. Profit by selling

Of course, this plan relies on you hunting the Tarrasque down. It's not nearly as effective if he's awake.

....Just out of curiousty how are you making the Tarrasque stay in this metaphorical hole of yours? Instead of it...y'know swimming to the top, melting down farther, etc*.

*Whatever else a tarrasque could do to escape that situation considering it can hold it's breath for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds before it even needs to begin making Fortitude saves to avoid drowning.

[tainsouvra]

....Just out of curiousty how are you making the Tarrasque stay in this metaphorical hole of yours? Instead of it...y'know swimming to the top, melting down farther, etc*.

*Whatever else a tarrasque could do to escape that situation considering it can hold it's breath for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds before it even needs to begin making Fortitude saves to avoid drowning.

There's actually a thread somewhere on ways to kill the beastie, and the plan is a little more involved than that, but he's covering the basics there

[Vasdenjas]

It would be 90 miles a day (330*60*24/5280)=90....not that it makes a major difference when magic based forms of travel are available

Actually, 20 feet is it's standard move. If it's on a rampage, it's likely not taking a leisurely stroll, but rather taking a full steam run. Now, is the 150 feet it's move, or it's run once per minute? If it is the move, he moves a total of:

((base move x 4 (running) x 9 (9 rounds of normal move)) + 150 (one round of burst speed)) x 60 x 24

so ((80x9)+150) x 1440 = 1252800 feet/day or 237.27 miles/day.

If 150 is his normal move, and once per minute, he can run at 600, that increases it to 360 miles/day

That's a lot of ground to cover

[Helios Sunshard]

search for "Seven Ways to Kill the Tarrasque on thirteen experience levels or less"

It has to do with using iron, a lot of iron, thank you to your wizzard buddy and his "Wall of Iron" spell. Then you can use it to put something stronger than rock in the walls of the hole (and the upper part, sealing the beast).

The funiest (for me) is the bardic one, even if it cant be done

[Ossian]

Well well well....I must admit that my knowledge of the rules is still a bit primitive. Perhaps I have this idealized picture of the T. as a Godlike creature, and I run relatively low magic campaigns. That never prompted me to grasp the rules to handle a high level and above all high magic party. I used to have a wiz. in my party that kept acting like a F117-Stealth. That is, bombarding everything at mach 3 from a 210 meters altitude, with a cloaking device worthy of a klingon or romulan warship and various other shielding paraphernalia that blocked normal missiles, magic missiles, infra red, ultraviolet, infra green, infra yellow and ultrablue rays, and he was just 9th level with INT 17.

That kinda screwed the "hyborean age" atmosphere and he tuned it down after some (mild) insistence from me and the rest of the party. This said, since there is some interest on the big T. (be it to beat the tar out of it or to revere it's CR 20 as it is ;) ) I'll post a link on an old D&D "Fight Club" issue, focused on the big lizard.

The Tarrasque: why you don't want to fight it.

These builds fix most of the problems, such as the lack of a ranged attack. I'd give them a look, especially if you are thinking bout using a T. in a campaign. Forget CRs and loopholes and broken builds (which are still funny to figure out anyway). It's a T., it deserves its glory!!!

Ossian

[martyboy74]

....Just out of curiousty how are you making the Tarrasque stay in this metaphorical hole of yours? Instead of it...y'know swimming to the top, melting down farther, etc*.

*Whatever else a tarrasque could do to escape that situation considering it can hold it's breath for about 2 minutes and 15 seconds before it even needs to begin making Fortitude saves to avoid drowning.

Ah, I forgot to cover that. After you imbed several decanters of endless water within the walls of the pit, you cast a Antilife Shell above it (you'll probably need a couple caster level boosts for this). This stops it from swimming upwards. Burrowing downward doesn't help; the water just falls after it. Same for burrowing sideways.

\/ Curse you, basic physics! Acutally, anyone want to figure out it would take? The Tarrasque runs out of breath in 62 rounds on average. It's certainly enough time to escape this way, but it'd still be a handy statistic to have.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ah, I forgot to cover that. After you imbed several decanters of endless water within the walls of the pit, you cast a Antilife Shell above it (you'll probably need a couple caster level boosts for this). This stops it from swimming upwards. Burrowing downward doesn't help; the water just falls after it. Same for burrowing sideways.

It could, however, burrow sideways, then up.

[Chronos]

You can't Coup de Grace with a damage type that is converted into nonleathal damage by regeneration.

I interpret that differently: That just says that you can't kill a regenerating creature with a nonlethal-type coup-de-gras, not that you can't do it at all. And the Tarrasque's description specifically says what happens when it's subjected to something which would kill a normal monster outright: It instead takes a big heap of nonlethal damage.

Ah, I forgot to cover that. After you imbed several decanters of endless water within the walls of the pit, you cast a Antilife Shell above it (you'll probably need a couple caster level boosts for this).

How many caster level boosts can you get? The Tarrasque has spell resistance 32. So unless you have an effective caster level of at least 31, it's got a 1 in 20 chance of getting through that shell. And it'll have plenty of time to try.

[Anxe]

I had a good idea for the Tarrasque being really awesome, but I never used it. The reason no one has found the Tarrasque is because it is a lycanthrope. The party's job would be to slowly discover the supposed location of the Tarrasque and then when they got there one of the PCs would turn into the beasty. A totally badass final encounter and I don't have to roll a single die during it.

[deadseashoals]

I interpret that differently: That just says that you can't kill a regenerating creature with a nonlethal-type coup-de-gras, not that you can't do it at all. And the Tarrasque's description specifically says what happens when it's subjected to something which would kill a normal monster outright: It instead takes a big heap of nonlethal damage.

However, the Tarrasque would not be killed normally by a coup-de-grace. Therefore, the clause in its regeneration ability that reads "if the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly..." will never kick in. Coup-de-grace all you want, but all it's going to do is score an automatic critical hit.

How many caster level boosts can you get? The Tarrasque has spell resistance 32. So unless you have an effective caster level of at least 31, it's got a 1 in 20 chance of getting through that shell. And it'll have plenty of time to try.

That's not how spell resistance works. If T fails to get through the shell once, he's going to fail to get through the shell until it wears off.

Check spell resistance only once for any particular casting of a spell or use of a spell-like ability. If spell resistance fails the first time, it fails each time the creature encounters that same casting of the spell. Likewise, if the spell resistance succeeds the first time, it always succeeds.

[UserClone]

You can't Coup de Grace with a damage type that is converted into nonleathal damage by regeneration.

Umm...you are kind of reaching for that one...all that says is that the CdG won't threaten DEATH, not that it won't still deal its subdual damage.

[Draz74]

I had a good idea for the Tarrasque being really awesome, but I never used it. The reason no one has found the Tarrasque is because it is a lycanthrope. The party's job would be to slowly discover the supposed location of the Tarrasque and then when they got there one of the PCs would turn into the beasty. A totally badass final encounter and I don't have to roll a single die during it.

What's the LA for a Were-Tarrasque?

[NEO|Phyte]

Umm...you are kind of reaching for that one...all that says is that the CdG won't threaten DEATH, not that it won't still deal its subdual damage.

What part of

A regenerating creature that has been rendered unconscious through nonlethal damage can be killed with a coup de grace. The attack cannot be of a type that automatically converts to nonlethal damage.

is a reach?

[....]

You're thinking of it in the wrong way.

By munchink terms, no T isn't anything special.

By average commoner/soldier/non OMG-SUPER-OPTIMIZED-RAW-ABUSING-THIRTEEN-DIFFERENT-CLASS-SUPERPC, the Tarrasque is a vicious, unstoppable brute that you can do naught but flee from.

Also, I was wondering, T regens from a single drop of blood. Does more than one form?

And if it does, I have a related quesiton.

On the plane of Positive Energy, you eventually explode from being filled with to much energy. Does this explosion cause blood?

If I teleport T onto the Positive Energy Plane and leave him in there for...oh...a thousand years, will I the be able to open it up and set forth a charge of ten billion ravenous tarrasque onto unsuspecting villagers?

[OzymandiasVolt]

The Tarrasque is easy! All you have to do is organize an elaborate plot based on the assumption that your character SOMEHOW knows every detail about a one-of-a-kind creature of legend that nobody really knows any details about.

[Kaelik]

All you really need to do is dig a big hole. Permanency Walls of Force all around the bottom/inside walls. Place a Dark Way spell atop it. (Or several.) Lure Tarrasque, have him fall through, Wall of Force the top of it. Make sure there is no gap for air. Eventually he dies of suffocation.

[deadseashoals]

All you really need to do is dig a big hole. Permanency Walls of Force all around the bottom/inside walls. Place a Dark Way spell atop it. (Or several.) Lure Tarrasque, have him fall through, Wall of Force the top of it. Make sure there is no gap for air. Eventually he dies of suffocation.

Wall of force makes a vertical plane only, so you can't enclose someone in a box made entirely of walls of force.

[Frosty]

Research a version that does :D

[Chronos]

That's not how spell resistance works. If T fails to get through the shell once, he's going to fail to get through the shell until it wears off.

I think that, at some level, I actually did remember that. That'll teach me to post without looking it up first. Still, though, 1 in 20 (or more) chance of failure is pretty significant, when a failure means the Tarrasque can jump up out of a hole in the ground and shred your d4 hit dice to ribbons.

On the Wall of Force idea, in addition to the orientation of the walls, Wall of Force and related effects (Resilient Sphere, Forcecage) explicitly can't cause suffocation.

[Machete]

What more do people REALLY want from the Tarresque. There are plenty of varients out there and templates are always fun. Maybe Diminutive Winged Tarreque Swarms.

[Arbitrarity]

I think that, at some level, I actually did remember that. That'll teach me to post without looking it up first. Still, though, 1 in 20 (or more) chance of failure is pretty significant, when a failure means the Tarrasque can jump up out of a hole in the ground and shred your d4 hit dice to ribbons.

On the Wall of Force idea, in addition to the orientation of the walls, Wall of Force and related effects (Resilient Sphere, Forcecage) explicitly can't cause suffocation.

Ok, tarrasque, meet my friends Assay Spell Resistance and Orange Ioun Stone (or spell power). Alternatively, or also, meet my friend Arcane Mastery.