Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Exclamation Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Here we go again. My newest creation is a base class, the idea for which has been rolling around in my head for well over a year. When I first conceived it, I was a rookie in the homebrewing game, and the original draft blew the term "overpowered" out of the water. Even as a newbie I could tell it was, and so threw it on the back burner. A few months later I tried to finagle things into a form that seem more balanced, but just couldn't make it work. So back into the dusty recesses of my mind it went. Fast forward a year, and I think I've got it. All it took was time to percolate. So allow me to present, the Summoner.


    The SUMMONER v1.1
    The Art of Summoning involves the channeling and manipulation of powerful energies that are neither solely arcane nor divine in nature. Through proper study and training, Summoners are able to learn how to reshape the very energies around them, coalescing them into a creature that can then be used to aid them in whatever way they may need. Most summoners are born with the innate ability to wield this ‘summoning’ magic, while a few others can sometimes manage to learn.
    ...Adventures: Most summoners travel the world seeking to further their knowledge of the creatures they summon. With a better understanding of the creature, it is believed that a summoner can handle his summons better. Some summoners also like to simply show off their rare talent, which is often welcome among many adventuring parties.
    ...Characteristics: summoners can sometimes be a little aloof when it comes to their ability to summon. However, in most cases they are very down to earth individuals. They tend to have a higher understanding, and appreciation, of the strange variety of animals and beasts in the world.
    ...Alignment: There is no one alignment that summoners adhere to. They are as diverse as the creatures they call. Summoners will follow the alignment that suits they’re nature best, which could be anything.
    ...Religion: Summoners don’t often follow a particular religion, choosing instead to keep their focus on their summoning arts. But summoners have been known to follow after Ehlonna or Obad-Hai (or other nature-based deities), due to their connections with the animals they summon, also some still follow the patron deities for their particular race.
    ...Background: Despite common rumors, there is no singular organized Summoner society. There have been known to be small groups of summoners that associate with each other, but this usually simply due to their particular living locations. Usually, any summoner that has settled down will have an apprentice living with him. However once the apprentice’s training is sufficient, they will leave their master to seek their destiny.
    ...Races: Humans make up a large majority of the summoners in the world, often due simply to their high rate of reproduction and evolution, which lends itself easily to unique changes. Elves tend to be able to learn the art of summoning more often than being born with it. Half-Elves are common as summoners for both reasons. Halfling summoners though uncommon do exist, but usually stick with their nomadic communities, and become welcome additions to the community’s sparse defenses. Gnomes and Dwarves sometimes are born with the ability, but few ever choose to pursue it, and even fewer try to learn it. Half-Orc summoners are rare, since the training does require extensive training and studious focus. Those that do become summoners are often known for their prowess of using summons in battle.
    ...Other Classes: Summoners usually associate well with Druids, if for nothing else other than their common interest in animals. They regard Barbarians and Rangers as fellow wanderers, although sometimes summoners see their combat powers as their primary contribution. Fighters, Paladins, and Clerics may as well be the same thing to a summoner, although the healing capabilities of Divine magic is never unwelcome. Especially if it’s for one of his summons.
    ...Role: Without the higher hit points of most combat classes, and no spells to help other party members or hinder enemies, summoners seem to have no niche of their own. However, while they themselves are not well tuned for combat, the summons they can call often are. At lower levels, a summoner can usually hold his own with the help of support members and his few summons. By the later levels, with the stronger and much more numerous summons, summoners often become the centerpiece of many adventuring parties.


    Game Rule Information
    Abilities: A summoner’s Intelligence is key in determining whether or not he is able to summon forth a particular creature. Dexterity can help lower level summoner’s avoid taking damage from the many perils of adventuring, while a good Constitution will help keep the summoner on his feet longer, and directing his summoned creatures.
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Dice: d6


    Class Skills
    The summoner’s class skills (and key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge [arcana] (Int), Knowledge[nature] (Int), Knowledge[the planes] (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier


    ...Table xs-1: The Summoner
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Art of Summoning, summon animal, wild empathy

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Summoning augmentation (1st)

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Summon vermin, summoner's bond (skilled synergy)

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Night sight

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |------

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Summon elemental, summoning augmentation (2nd)

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Summoner's bond (empathic link), deep sight

    8th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Rapid summoning 1/day

    9th|
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |------

    10th|
    +7
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Summon magical beast, summoning augmentation (3rd)

    11th|
    +8
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Summoner's bond (telepathic link)

    12th|
    +9
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Physical resilience

    13th|
    +9
    |
    +8
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Rapid summoning 2/day

    14th|
    +10
    |
    +9
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Summoning augmentation (4th), summoner's bond (loyal sumons)

    15th|
    +11
    |
    +9
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Summon dragon, deeper sight

    16th|
    +12
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |------

    17th|
    +12
    |
    +10
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Mental bulwark

    18th|
    +13
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Summoning augmentation (5th), rapid summoning 3/day

    19th|
    +14
    |
    +11
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |------

    20th|
    +15
    |
    +12
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Summoned companion[/table]

    Class Features
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Summoners are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the net, and whip. Summoners are proficient with light and medium armor and with light and heavy shields, but not with tower shields.

    Art of Summoning (Su): The Summoner’s primary focus is on the art of summoning itself, and they spend their time learning how to invoke larger and stronger creatures, and how to even make their summoned allies stronger and better in the process. The Summoner has learned the ability, whether through some arcane means or through the teachings of other summoners, to summon creatures to their location to aid them. These creatures can be used as mounts, pack animals, or more often as powerful allies in combat. A summoner’s powers increase over time, with the summoner being able to summon more creatures at one time, summoning more various types of creatures, and having the summons remain longer to name a few abilities.
    ... Summoning a creature (or creatures) requires a brief ritual that takes 2 uninterrupted minutes to complete. A summoner can summon a total number of creatures per day whose total HD is equal to or less than, four times his summoner level. No one summoned creature’s HD can exceed the summoner’s level. For example, a 5th-level summoner could call forth a number of creatures whose total HD total no more than 20 HD, but no single summoned creature could have more than 5 HD.
    ... The summoned creature can be called to a space out to a range of 10 feet plus 5 feet per summoner level. A summoned creature can only be called to an unoccupied space, in an environment that can support it. For example, an octopus could only be summoned into an aquatic environment. Each creature summoned remains with the summoner for a time equal to 1 hour per summoner level. Thus, our 5th-level summoner’s summoned creatures would remain with him for a total of 5 hours each.
    ... Summoned creatures cannot summon or otherwise conjure another creature or item. The act of summoning the creature binds it to the summoner in such a way so as to render these types of abilities inert. At first, the summoner is limited in what he can call to his side, but the summoner slowly gains the ability to summon various types of creatures. At 1st-level, the summoner can only summon forth creatures of the animal-type. At 3rd-level, the summoner can begin summoning forth creatures of the vermin-type. At 6th-level, he has learned to summon elemental-type creatures, at 10th-level he can begin summoning Magical Beasts, and then at 15th-level the summoner gains the ability to summon forth creatures of the Dragon-type. All creatures summoned have an attitude of helpful towards the summoner that called them, and an attitude of indifferent towards anyone else, unless instructed otherwise by the summoner.
    ... In order to summon a particular creature, a summoner must first be able to summon creatures of the desired type. Second, he must succeed on a related knowledge check. For animals and vermin (a wolf or giant wasp), this is a Knowledge (nature) check, for dragons and magical beasts (such as true dragons or shocker lizard) it is a Knowledge (arcana) check, and elementals require a Knowledge (the planes) check. Depending on the combination of creatures to be summoned, a summoner may need to make several knowledge checks before performing his summoning ritual. The DC for this check is equal to 20+ the HD of the creature to be summoned, each time he summons a creature of that type. The summoner receives a bonus to his knowledge checks made to summon creatures equal to one-half his class level. If a summoner obtains a sample or piece of the creature (such as trimming of hairs, a scale, feather, bones, blood, etc.), then the summoner gains a +2 circumstance bonus on all future knowledge checks made while summing that creature. Whenever a summoner summons a kind of creature that he has summoned previously, he receives a +2 insight bonus on the associated knowledge check. Therefore, if our 5th-level summoner wanted to summon a wolf, he would need to first succeed on a DC 22 Knowledge (nature) check. If the summoner possessed a clipping of wolf hair, and had summoned wolves before, he would gain a total of a +4 bonus on this check.

    Wild Empathy (Ex): With his extensive time spent around and dealing with animals, summoners develop techniques and methods with dealing with all animals. A summoner can use body language, vocalizations, and demeanor to improve the attitude of an animal (such as a bear or a monitor lizard). This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The summoner rolls 1d20 and adds his summoner level and his Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.
    ... To use wild empathy, the summoner and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
    ... A summoner can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (such as a basilisk or a girallon), but he takes a –4 penalty on the check.

    Summoning Augmentation (Su): As the summoner progresses in his experience at calling forth creatures from the ether, he also begins to learn how shape the very essence of the creatures he summons, and in doing so, augment the abilities of the creatures he summons. Beginning at 2nd level, and every four levels beyond that, a summoner learns a new augmentation to apply to his summoned creatures. Each augmentation applied to a summoned creature, counts against the total HD of creatures that a summoner can call forth in a day, as well as a against the total HD for a single creature. For example, if a summoner wanted to augment a wolf with the sharp fang augmentation, the wolf would then be a 3HD summon, with regards to summoning costs. Any number of augmentations can be applied to a creature, though each augmentation can only be applied once, though the cost of each augmentation applies cumulatively.
    ...Table xs-2: Summoning augmentations
    {table]Advanced Talents: A summoned creature is often defined by the one or two ‘special’ talents that it may possess. A boost to these talents can do nothing but help a summoner. A summoned creature with this augmentation gains a +4 bonus to the DCs of all its special attacks and spell-like abilities. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 4 HD.
    Great Resilience: A summoned creature will inevitably be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and find itself in harm’s way. This augmentation grants the summoned creature a +1 bonus to all saving throws, per six summoner levels. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 2 HD.
    Increased Durability: A summoned creature that can survive greater amounts of damage has an increased chance of surviving overall. A summoned creature with this augmentation gains a 25% increase to their total HP. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 3 HD.
    Precise Strike: A summoned ally cannot harm an enemy, if it cannot hit the enemy. This augmentation grants +1 competence bonus to attack rolls made with the creature’s natural weapons, per five summoner levels. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 2 HD.
    Sharp Fang: The more damage your summons can do in combat, the sooner the threat can be eliminated. A summoned creature with this augment gains a +2 competence bonus, per four summoner levels, to all damage rolls from attacks made with natural weapons. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 1 HD.
    Speed Boost: Staying alive sometimes means staying ahead of whatever is after you. This augmentation increases all of the summoned creature’s movement speeds (including any burrow, climb, fly, or swim speeds) by 50%. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 1 HD.
    Superior Specimen: A stronger and more intelligent summoned creature can truly outshine their run-of-the-mill kin. And sometimes, this is all it takes to sway the course of a situation. This augmentation grants the summoned creature a +2 bonus to two of its primary ability scores, chosen by the summoner at the time of calling. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 3 HD.
    Thickened Hide: The harder a summoned creature is to hit, the longer it will be around to aid you. This augmentation increases the summoned creature’s natural armor by 1 per three summoner levels. This augmentation increases the summoning cost by 1 HD.[/table]


    Summoner’s Bond (Su): As the summoner continues with his frequent calling and channeling of the ether, the creatures that he summons begin to bond even further with him upon their arrival. Beginning at 3rd level, the summoner gains a +4 bonus to any Wild Empathy, Handle Animal, and Ride checks, or any other checks made in dealing with the creatures that he has summoned. Beginning at 7th level, the bond between summoner and summoned becomes mental as well as physical. The summoner now gains an empathic link with all creatures that he summons. This ability functions just like the sorcerer’s familiar ability of the same name. At 11th level, this bond expands to include a telepathic link as well. The summoner gains a telepathic link with all creatures that he summons. This link extends out to 100ft. from the summoner. Though the summoner can now mentally communicate with the creatures that he summons, those summons that have lower to animal levels of intelligence will still only be able to communicate as such. In many cases these are raw emotions and instincts, rather than civilized concepts and ideas. Finally, at 14th level, the summoner’s creatures become even more fiercely loyal to him, making it difficult for others to control or sway them. Any creature that a summoner calls forth now gains a +4 bonus to Will saves against all enchantment spells and effects.

    Night Sight (Ex): Just as the creatures that a summoner calls forth benefit from their bond with the summoner, the summoner is also granted benefits from this bond. At 4th level, the summoner gains the ability to see farther in low light conditions. The summoner gains low-light vision, allowing him to see twice as far as a human in areas of low light. If the summoner already has low-light vision, then his night sight stacks with it, allowing him to see three times as far as a human in lower lighting conditions.

    Deep Sight (Ex): At 7th level, the summoner’s benefits increase. He gains darkvision out to a distance of 30 feet. If the summoner already has darkvision, deep sight adds an additional 30 feet to his darkvision.

    Rapid Summoning (Su): An experienced summoner knows that sometimes you don’t have two minutes to summon a creature. Sometimes you‘re in a pinch and need one right away. Practiced summoners learn how to rapidly force the summoning energies to coalesce in a much shorter amount of time. However, in doing so, he limits himself to summoning a single creature. Beginning at 8th level, once per day, the summoner may summon a single creature that still fits the HD limitations. As the summoner increases in power, he can use his rapid summoning ability additional times per day (2/day at 13th level, and 3/day at 18th level).

    Physical Resilience (Ex): At 12th level, the summoner begins to take on more benefits in common with his summoned allies, as his ability to shrug off attacks upon his health with increased ease. The summoner gains a +4 bonus to saving throws made against any poison or paralysis effects.

    Deeper Sight (Ex): At 15th level, the summoner vision increases once again. The summoner’s darkvision extends by another 30 feet. This ability stacks with deep sight for a total of 60 feet gained. This ability also improves any existing darkvision the summoner has.

    Mental Bulwark (Ex): At 17th level, the summoner gains mental fortification from his bond with his summoned creatures. The summoner gains immunity to magical sleep effects as well as gaining immunity against being stunned.

    Summoned Companion (Su): Upon attaining the peak of their skills, summoner’s gain the ability to summon forth a more permanent companion. The summoner conducts a 12 hour ritual, during which time the summoner meditates, prays or simply focuses his mind, in order to prepare both himself and the energies needed to permanently summon his companion. At the end of the 12 hour ritual, the summoner then begins the 2 minute summoning period, and must make any relevant Knowledge check, as dictated by the type of companion he intends to summon. If the summoner fails this check, he must wait 24 hours before attempt the ritual again, starting from the beginning of the 12 hour preparation ritual.
    ... The summoned companion may be of any creature type that the summoner can legally summon, with regards to creature type and Hit Dice limitations. If the summoner chooses to, he may apply any desired augmentations to his summoned companion upon its summoning, but the HD cost for augmentation still apply. Any augmentations applied to the summoned companion are considered permanent extraordinary abilities. The summoned companion also benefits from the Summoner’s Bond class ability, just like any other summoned creature.
    ... Should the summoned companion perish, or the summoner desire a different companion, he may dismiss his summoned companion. The summoner must then wait 24 hours before attempting a new ceremony, beginning with the 12 hour ritual of preparation.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2007-11-14 at 12:15 PM.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    D Knight's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    i love the idea for the class.it looks pretty balanced but i have one problem though. by level 11 you could summon a gold dragon and still give it 25% more hp with one augmentions. i would say bring it down from 4 to maybe 2 but thats just me. and if i have not said it yet good job.
    current avatar by Nathan
    avatar by threeshades

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
    Originally Posted by Randel
    A dwarven monk got drunk
    and sat on an elephants trunk
    the elephant sneezed and fell on his knees
    and that was the end of the monk

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Vadin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Auburn, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Id add in some sort of CR limit to what they can summon, too.
    With just a HD limit, they can summon some pretty crazy stuff early on (i.e., fey).
    Avatar by Linguini


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by D Knight View Post
    i love the idea for the class.it looks pretty balanced but i have one problem though. by level 11 you could summon a gold dragon and still give it 25% more hp with one augmentions. i would say bring it down from 4 to maybe 2 but thats just me. and if i have not said it yet good job.
    Yes, but at level 11, and using the Increased Durability augment, the dragon could have no more than 8 HD. A 8 HD gold dragon (the strongest of the metallics) is a wyrmling. Boost its HP by 25%, and it comes to about 85 HP total on a wyrmling gold dragon. A CR 5 critter. I think the problem is something that bugged me the whole time I was putting the text together, and that's conveying the concepts. The augmentations are added to the HD total of the creature you summon. Therefore a 8HD creature with a 3HD augment, total for a 11HD creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadin View Post
    Id add in some sort of CR limit to what they can summon, too.
    With just a HD limit, they can summon some pretty crazy stuff early on (i.e., fey).
    You might want to read the Art of Summoning entry a little closer. As indicated in the text, and the chart, there are only certain creature types the summoner can choose from.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    D Knight's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    i am sorry but u foget your own words.
    A summoner can summon a total number of creatures per day whose total HD is equal to or less than, four times his summoner level.
    that means 11*4=44 HD not 11 there for you can summon a great wyrm gold dragon.
    current avatar by Nathan
    avatar by threeshades

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
    Originally Posted by Randel
    A dwarven monk got drunk
    and sat on an elephants trunk
    the elephant sneezed and fell on his knees
    and that was the end of the monk

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by FireSpark View Post
    ..... No one summoned creature’s HD can exceed the summoner’s level. For example, a 5th-level summoner could call forth a number of creatures whose total HD total no more than 20 HD, but no single summoned creature could have more than 5 HD.
    I was actually referring to this part. It follows immediately after the portion you quoted.

    And I honestly can't fault anyone for missing information in my entry. Hell, even I think it's a little wordy, but I just can't think of any other way to boil down further. At least, not without losing clarity.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2007-10-19 at 05:59 AM.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I was surprised that this class didn't get more critiques. Maybe it was jsut flushed down the board by a rush of posting. So I let it sit for a while, just in case, but now I bump in the hopes of a few more look overs.

    So go forth and critique.


    Though, I will forever refuse to put any bracketed fruit at the end of my thread titles.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2007-10-27 at 11:02 AM.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Fusecase's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    IASMH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    The class does everything it promised to do, it summons and gets better as it levels. The ability to summon certain types of creatures keeps the class from falling too far behind the curve and keeps it from becoming too powerful. I would like to playtest this, but I don't know if I have time...
    GJ all around.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    A2
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I might make the summoning duration ten minutes per level rather than one hour. That just seems a bit long.
    Truly awesome Ark Tamaeus avatar by Bryn. Full size version here.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    In the Interwebz
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I like it I really do but one problem is the HD of the class a D8 makes them a little too enduring to me. they don't have to 'Hide behind their fuzzys' to survive. infact they can just take a few levels of this and a cupple of rouge to create flank city...not that summon monster spells don't do that already. but drop to HD to 6 or even 4 and you have someone who fears melee. still get a few rouges mind you..but it hurts more to give up more crunch fuzzy critters to fight for you.


    "I laugh at life, it's antics make for me a giddy game. Where only foolish fellows take themselves with solemn aim.”

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Nostri's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I think 20 is fairly high for a base DC to use the class's main ability. Also the ritual is a little ambiguous. Do you need to preform the ritual for each of the creatures your summoning or only once for all of them (assuming you summon your full allotment at the same time).
    ~Nostri, frequent lurker and periodic poster

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    I agree with this plan. Any terraforming plan involving Thermite is a good plan.
    Homebrew Creations
    Spoiler
    Show

    Races
    The Arachnadae- WiP

    Classes
    Templar- Finished, mostly
    Priest-WiP

    Feats
    Sever Limb- WiP
    Sacred Vow/Vow of Poverty Redux- WiP

    WiP stands for Work in Progress so please, go and discuss, critique, give suggestions etc.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nostri View Post
    I think 20 is fairly high for a base DC to use the class's main ability.
    Coming up with this DC was actually one of the harder parts of balancing the whole concept of this class feature. Over all, it took me the better part of an afternoon of crunching numbers and considering all the angles. I started with 10, but tha became immediately obvious as being too low, and a base of 15 still didn't seem to cut it, so I pulled it up to 20. And in order to allow for some easier middle ground, it was then that I came up with the bonuses for previous summoning and physical items. But allow me to lay out the reasoning I ran with while coming up with the DC.

    Let's say you want to summon a plain ol' 2HD wolf. The base DC is therefore 22. Obviously, a DC 22 Knowledge check would look pretty high to other classes (asisdes maybe rogues or wizards), but anyone one who is going to take this class is going to use the class abilities to the best of their abilities. So back to the wolf. Obviously, seeing that the wolf is a 2HD creture, the summoner couldn't even attempt to do this until he was 2nd-level, so we'll start there. If the summoner is set up to truly take advantage of his summoning abilities, then he'll probably have maxed his Knowledge (nature) skill out, and he being only level 2, that would make it 5 ranks. So already, in order to hit a DC 22, the summoner needs to roll a 17. High yes, but not impossible. But let's continue.

    Assuming the person building the character was paying attention to what he was reading, then there should be at least some modicum of an INT score. For the sake of argument, I'll just go with 14, for modifier of +2. Our roll needed is now down to 15, and it gets better. Procuring some wolf fur, or wolf's fang, probably wouldn't be too hard. Just find a local hunter. That gives you a +2 bonus, and so now all you need on your roll is 13. That is very doable. And then once you do succeed at summoning that wolf, it gets even easier with another +2 bonus (that stacks), bringing your needed roll down to 11. So even for an average line character, summoning would eventually become common, if not completely fail proof. And this need for an 11 on a summoning check stays about the same as you level, as long as you keep applying ranks to the appropriate knowledge skill.

    But we all know that no one would let their primary class ability just be average. So imagine that our character has and INT of 18, that drops the needed roll to 9. A Skill Focus feat in the right place? Now we're down to 6. 6!! And what happens when the summoner finds a headband of intellect? Asides from him having to wrestle it away from the party wizard. The DC to summon anything would become meaningless. But to crank it up any higher would make it too difficult. It was this very realization that made me realize that having creatures summoned via different knowledges was a good balancing factor, to a problem that I hadn't even realized existed at the time. And considering that there are only three applicable knowledges, I could easily see someone taking the Skill Focus feat for each of them, so summoning would still become fairly successful.

    So I hope that this rambling mess, for such a short question, shines some light on my odd thought processes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nostri View Post
    Also the ritual is a little ambiguous. Do you need to preform the ritual for each of the creatures your summoning or only once for all of them (assuming you summon your full allotment at the same time).
    I must humbly agree with you on this. After re-reading the section regarding the ritual, it became painfully obvious that several points were in need of clarification, and not just on the ones that you pointed out. I'll try an poke around at this a little later today.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tialait View Post
    I like it I really do but one problem is the HD of the class a D8 makes them a little too enduring to me. they don't have to 'Hide behind their fuzzys' to survive. infact they can just take a few levels of this and a cupple of rouge to create flank city...not that summon monster spells don't do that already. but drop to HD to 6 or even 4 and you have someone who fears melee. still get a few rouges mind you..but it hurts more to give up more crunch fuzzy critters to fight for you.
    At first I just threw on a D8 becuase so many other nature based characters had it, but never really re-evaluated it during the rest of the class's construction. After looking over again, I can easily see how a one-step reduction would not only keep the the summoner from being tank-like pack leader, but also force him to actually rely on his summons. And though the reduction in hit dice would make him especially soft and squishy at lower levels, the back end of the class would more than make up for that.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2007-11-14 at 12:02 PM.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ZeroNumerous's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2007

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I find it rather silly that a summoner class has medium BAB..

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous View Post
    I find it rather silly that a summoner class has medium BAB..
    Any particular reasoning to your amusing conclusion? Something being 'silly' won't help me to improve it, if it does indeed need improving.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2007-11-14 at 12:23 PM.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    In the Interwebz
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I see his 'medium being silly on the BAB' but i don't see a problem with it. the only other thing you could call a summoner is the Druid but it's also a warpriest of nature. if you don't want thease guys attempting Melee you would lower to resimbol (sp?) a wizards BAB but I see thease guys joining their squishy freinds in the fray so a D6 sounds right for HP..and the medium BAB helps them keep up with their pack.


    "I laugh at life, it's antics make for me a giddy game. Where only foolish fellows take themselves with solemn aim.”

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tialait View Post
    I see his 'medium being silly on the BAB' but i don't see a problem with it. the only other thing you could call a summoner is the Druid but it's also a warpriest of nature. if you don't want thease guys attempting Melee you would lower to resimbol (sp?) a wizards BAB but I see thease guys joining their squishy freinds in the fray so a D6 sounds right for HP..and the medium BAB helps them keep up with their pack.
    Agreed. And one of the reasons that his BAB is what it is (and his Hit Dice was what it used to be) was because those are the stats of typical animals. The summoner actually started out with Fort and Reflex being the good save, but they changed to fit it better with the overall flavor. As has the HD, thanks to the observations of Tialait.
    Last edited by FireSpark; 2007-11-14 at 04:04 PM.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    In the Interwebz
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    I was flipping through my DMG and i saw a Variant that fits this class kind nicely..with a few changes...(DMG Sidebar pg. 37) Let the summons keep their eqips with this class only. This gives a feeling of 'Leader of the pack' could be unbalanced what do you think?


    "I laugh at life, it's antics make for me a giddy game. Where only foolish fellows take themselves with solemn aim.”

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    FireSpark's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    447th layer of the Abyss
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tialait View Post
    I was flipping through my DMG and i saw a Variant that fits this class kind nicely..with a few changes...(DMG Sidebar pg. 37) Let the summons keep their eqips with this class only. This gives a feeling of 'Leader of the pack' could be unbalanced what do you think?
    I'm at work right now, and don't have my books in front of me (also, I'm not sure what eqips was supposed to be). Any way that you could explain the gist of the variant? Without crossing the SRD/OGL line of course.
    The light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the mother welcome you home.




    Wanna check out all the nifty Homebrews I've done? Click Here! Hurry!

    Awarded the Bronze Donkey by Serpentine, for the Ass at the End of the Universe.

    Come on in and give a shout out from where ever you are!!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    In the Interwebz
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Say hello to my fuzzy friends! [New Base Class]

    Sure. the Varient is one i make very much use out of. First off the basic Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally spells just summon a random creature of the type your looking for..this is effective for the regular charitor who doesnt care who they are summoning but want what they are summoning. The Varient allows you to summon an exact creature. Instead of 2HD Wolf you have Sonya the Wolf (Still a 2HD Wolf but when you First Summon him you roll him up including his HD)

    I ment Equipment. Like Collars..Magic Items..In the Varient you can't give them Magic items..without planer traval and the such. And finding the exact w/o summoning stuff..i think the Summoner should be able to give them stuff without needing all that. The bookeeping is a little bit more the the impact is HUGE. And yes. The creature's healing rate does come into effect. So if they are killed. they go poof at 1 hp you gotta let them recover. It's very very flavorful and just seems to fit this class to me.


    "I laugh at life, it's antics make for me a giddy game. Where only foolish fellows take themselves with solemn aim.”

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •