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    Default Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Hello. This is the second thread for our discussions of Age of Sigmar - the game, the rules, the background, and related games like Underworlds and War Cry.

    Last thread, we were discussing Khorne: what should a new Khorne player buy? How can I make my tournament list better? And is naming the thread after a cheap joke about their magic system allowed, or a gross abuse of "first to post the new thread" power?
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    Hello. This is the second thread for our discussions of Age of Sigmar - the game, the rules, the background, and related games like Underworlds and War Cry.

    Last thread, we were discussing Khorne: what should a new Khorne player buy? How can I make my tournament list better? And is naming the thread after a cheap joke about their magic system allowed, or a gross abuse of "first to post the new thread" power?
    On the Khorne stuff - I think you can't go wrong with buying at least one Bloodthirster. An Insensate Rage Bloodthirster or two is basically always welcome in a good Khorne list.

    And yes, at least 2 Priests.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    The only balancing factors on Khorne Blood-Prayers as compared to magic is:
    • They're on average a little harder to cast (4+ on d6 is about the same as 7+ on 2d6, right?)
    • There's only one thing that makes them better (the skull altar)
    • You can take mortal wounds if you mess them up.
    • I don't think any of the Endless Prayers are much good.



    That's not much, huh? Yeah, they're pretty absurd, and remember a Slaughterpriest can chant more than one per turn. A Gore Pilgrims batallion is the core of all my Khorne lists because it contains three things you want anyway (two priests and a bloodsecrator) and the cost for the battalion is pretty cheap.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    It might be useful to include the core rules link in the main post.

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/..._Rules-ENG.pdf

    Also a list of all the current factions might be nice?

    Also, we get Bonereaper and Mawtribes FAQ/Errata.

    Bonereapers
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...1/8461e683.pdf
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...1/6fabd58f.pdf

    Mawtribes
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...1/352ed9d0.pdf
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...1/4b3813b3.pdf

    No blatant nerfs to Petrifex Elite. How interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    The only balancing factors on Khorne Blood-Prayers as compared to magic is:
    • They're on average a little harder to cast (4+ on d6 is about the same as 7+ on 2d6, right?)
    • There's only one thing that makes them better (the skull altar)
    • You can take mortal wounds if you mess them up.
    • I don't think any of the Endless Prayers are much good.



    That's not much, huh? Yeah, they're pretty absurd, and remember a Slaughterpriest can chant more than one per turn. A Gore Pilgrims batallion is the core of all my Khorne lists because it contains three things you want anyway (two priests and a bloodsecrator) and the cost for the battalion is pretty cheap.
    Eh, depends on the army, but the Endless prayers are pretty darn ridiculous. Combined with all the dispels that Khorne gets, the Hexgorger skulls basically shut down any spellcasting while also setting up a potential mindwipe/d6 damage should you trigger it's trap card and the other two do solid damage and can't be controlled by an opponent, while also taking up space which gives you control over the board. The Reroll from the Skull Altar definitely mitigates the danger from the prayers a LOT and allows the priests to hide behind it in order to avoid being sniped and that the Endless Judgements get +1 per priest to stay on the board, and these things are almost never leaving.

    Like the Wrathful Axe alone can do d3 + d6 damage to stuff, while also wrecking your to hit rolls and boxing you in. And it will just do that each and every turn for the whole game unless your opponent rolls a 1. That's a potential unit wipe a turn if it can find something to hit, which given it's movement it probably will.

    And that's just the endless ones. You also get the fact that on a 4+ that they can reroll, they can just nuke endless spells off the board, or do D6 mortal wounds to things with a fair bit of range, that they don't even have to be able to see.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    They're on average a little harder to cast (4+ on d6 is about the same as 7+ on 2d6, right?)
    Statistically, "7+ on 2d6" is exactly halfway between "3+ on 1d6" and "4+ on 1d6". So the "4+ on 1d6" would be slightly harder.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    Statistically, "7+ on 2d6" is exactly halfway between "3+ on 1d6" and "4+ on 1d6". So the "4+ on 1d6" would be slightly harder.
    Fair enough - given that most spells are casting values of 7 or below, Khorne prayers are at the harder end.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Some info on Mortal Realms.

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...ealms-in-2020/

    I wonder how many people will get that first issue for just the chainrasps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    well finally finished the Bone Tithe Nexus

    Spoiler: this thing is huge
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    On to Feast of Bones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm View Post
    well finally finished the Bone Tithe Nexus

    Spoiler: this thing is huge
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    On to Feast of Bones.
    That thing is indeed massive!
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    I'd like some advise. I've been thinking about getting into Age of Sigmar. I am more about the painting and the lore (books) and have been enjoying that immensely, but I would like to dip by toes in the actual game also. I would like some advise on what armies are good to start with and what playstyles they are good at.

    I am not a competitive person, so most likely I'll only take part in very casual and beginner tournaments and games at my local game store. Knowing what type of games I usually like, I think I'd like an army with relative few and relatively big creatures, able to take a hit. I know that the new Ossiarch army is a bit like that, but I really dislike painting skeleton-like creatures (have done so a lot of times already). Any advise on what other armies would fit such a playstyle? Visually I really like the Seraphon and the the Cities of Sigmar models.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichneumon View Post
    I'd like some advise. I've been thinking about getting into Age of Sigmar. I am more about the painting and the lore (books) and have been enjoying that immensely, but I would like to dip by toes in the actual game also. I would like some advise on what armies are good to start with and what playstyles they are good at.

    I am not a competitive person, so most likely I'll only take part in very casual and beginner tournaments and games at my local game store. Knowing what type of games I usually like, I think I'd like an army with relative few and relatively big creatures, able to take a hit. I know that the new Ossiarch army is a bit like that, but I really dislike painting skeleton-like creatures (have done so a lot of times already). Any advise on what other armies would fit such a playstyle? Visually I really like the Seraphon and the the Cities of Sigmar models.
    Seraphon are really good but require practice, repetition and more skinks than you can shake a stick at.

    Cities of Sigmar are REALLY good right now.

    If what you really want to do is Monster mash, your main options are Maw Tribes with a heavy investment in the Beast Claw Raiders or Flesh Eater Court Grislegore. Of the two Gristlegore is better. Grab yourself 2 start collecting and use the flayer bits to convert one of the ghoul kings on foot for an archregent will get you a 1500pt army. pick up another terrorgiest and 2 box of ghouls to get to 2K.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    I'd be tempted to hold off, if Seraphon is one of the things you're into - they're rumored to get a new book sometime soon, and I'd be surprised if that didn't allow for some way to run a Monster Mash list.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I'd be tempted to hold off, if Seraphon is one of the things you're into - they're rumored to get a new book sometime soon, and I'd be surprised if that didn't allow for some way to run a Monster Mash list.
    honestly the typical list is already a monster mash list thanks to thunder quake/triple engine lists. However it relies on skink summoning to truly control the board.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    You can always use min-sized skinks as compulsionary battlelines in order to monster mash. Its the classic way.

    Cities is really flexibile in what you can achieve with it, and has decent internal balance (some stinkers notwhistanding) in that you can run whatever you like and still do decent. I do recommend to specialize a bit in a theme though.

    Ironjaws and Fyreslayers are other armies that have some big strong monsters and have troops that can take hits. (And dish out)
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Thanks for the suggestions and advise. I think I might go for the Cities route. But I'll think it over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichneumon View Post
    Thanks for the suggestions and advise. I think I might go for the Cities route. But I'll think it over.
    Don't forget to keep in mind which minis you like. Points and rules change more than the minis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Don't I know it. I've got a pile of old Skaven which are perfectly viable in AoS, but the actual rules for them are more or less completely different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destro_Yersul View Post
    Don't I know it. I've got a pile of old Skaven which are perfectly viable in AoS, but the actual rules for them are more or less completely different.
    Exactly. same minis, differnt rules through 4 editions or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
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    https://www.warhammer-community.com/...ohan-and-more/

    Slaves to Darkness preorders next week, including double-sized boxes for the warcry warbands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Speaking of Warcry, I thought I'd share my thoughts now that my local league is wrapping up (I have my final game in about an hour and a half).

    1) The game is fast. Activations are very swift, and the attack system is very quick. Most matches will also end before turn 5. It's far faster than Kill Team is, for point of comparison.

    2) The Initiative system is interesting, and the movement system is great. I was quite pleased when I figured out how a model could wall jump.

    3) While I'm not a chaos fan personally, I can't deny the models are beautiful

    That being said, I have noticed two pretty big issues

    1) Critical hits can make the game very luck based. On average, my Hurricane Crossbow Raptor will only do 9 damage from a double volley at a Toughness 4 enemy who is out in the open (or a Toughness 3 enemy who is obscured). In practice, I've seen those guys take out leaders with 15 wounds in a single activation. Crypt Flayers are another big offender. Which leads me into my other complaint...

    2) The transplants from Age of Sigmar feel a bit overpowered. Or maybe it's just the Vanguard Stormcast and Flesheater Courts, since I don't think the Legions of Nagash player has had the runaway success our Flesheaters players and I have. But when the Stormcast are some of the most durable models in the game and brought guns magic crossbows to a knife fight, it feels like I'm playing a different game. Hypermobile Flyers like the Crypt Flayer and Aetherwing are also something the game doesn't really account for. While the Aetherwing can't really fight, it doesn't really need to when it's less than 5% of your total points and can provide you with strategic buffs. And they're just tough enough they can tie down a critical unit at the wrong moment, and with 24" of flying movement, they will get there. Crypt Flayers, meanwhile... 30 HP, a 10" Move, and 4 powerful attacks. Ew. And the leader version is worse!
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Speaking of Warcry, I thought I'd share my thoughts now that my local league is wrapping up (I have my final game in about an hour and a half).

    1) The game is fast. Activations are very swift, and the attack system is very quick. Most matches will also end before turn 5. It's far faster than Kill Team is, for point of comparison.

    2) The Initiative system is interesting, and the movement system is great. I was quite pleased when I figured out how a model could wall jump.

    3) While I'm not a chaos fan personally, I can't deny the models are beautiful

    That being said, I have noticed two pretty big issues

    1) Critical hits can make the game very luck based. On average, my Hurricane Crossbow Raptor will only do 9 damage from a double volley at a Toughness 4 enemy who is out in the open (or a Toughness 3 enemy who is obscured). In practice, I've seen those guys take out leaders with 15 wounds in a single activation. Crypt Flayers are another big offender. Which leads me into my other complaint...

    2) The transplants from Age of Sigmar feel a bit overpowered. Or maybe it's just the Vanguard Stormcast and Flesheater Courts, since I don't think the Legions of Nagash player has had the runaway success our Flesheaters players and I have. But when the Stormcast are some of the most durable models in the game and brought guns magic crossbows to a knife fight, it feels like I'm playing a different game. Hypermobile Flyers like the Crypt Flayer and Aetherwing are also something the game doesn't really account for. While the Aetherwing can't really fight, it doesn't really need to when it's less than 5% of your total points and can provide you with strategic buffs. And they're just tough enough they can tie down a critical unit at the wrong moment, and with 24" of flying movement, they will get there. Crypt Flayers, meanwhile... 30 HP, a 10" Move, and 4 powerful attacks. Ew. And the leader version is worse!
    #1 I think is intended. They want the game to feel very swingy and people to gamble on big hits, foe better or worse.

    #2 is definitely an issue. Hoping that the Tome of Champions helps balance things a bit.

    My main issue with Warcry is lack of depth. Without a lot of options and most units just being variations on the same base unit, it's pretty easy to pick out the best and worst units, and optimized lists can be figured out within a couple models of one another. Abilities should be the thing that skews your decisions, but they mainly can be lumped into good and bad and, surprise surprise, the good units stat and point wise generally have good abilities too.

    Games will vary greatly with dice and the random mission/twist system, but mechanically most factions and builds feel the same outside a couple tricks. It's very fun and I play it a lot, but it's a relatively flat game that wouldn't be as fun if I didn't have Underworlds and AoS to fill my list-building addiction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    #1 I think is intended. They want the game to feel very swingy and people to gamble on big hits, foe better or worse.

    #2 is definitely an issue. Hoping that the Tome of Champions helps balance things a bit.
    I don't think Point adjustments are the answer. Or at least, not the complete answer. Stormcast are just not playing the same game, and that's a problem. Warcry just doesn't feel like a ranged game. As for flying... I think at the very least a rule locking treasure bearing models to 6" or less move characteristic and no flying is essential, because fast flying models just break such missions in half. If there's only one treasure token, a Crypt Flayer that wins initiative can just grab it and play keep away, and no non-flying model can catch them unless you've got a serious lack of LoS blockers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    I don't think Point adjustments are the answer. Or at least, not the complete answer. Stormcast are just not playing the same game, and that's a problem. Warcry just doesn't feel like a ranged game. As for flying... I think at the very least a rule locking treasure bearing models to 6" or less move characteristic and no flying is essential, because fast flying models just break such missions in half. If there's only one treasure token, a Crypt Flayer that wins initiative can just grab it and play keep away, and no non-flying model can catch them unless you've got a serious lack of LoS blockers.
    Yeah, for reasons like that, I doubt Warcry will ever be a truly balanced game without some sort of big rules patch/overhaul. It's extremely fun if no one is power-gaming... but then you have to rely on tabletop gamers to not power-game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Requizen View Post
    #1 I think is intended. They want the game to feel very swingy and people to gamble on big hits, foe better or worse.
    Average damage from a Hurricane Raptor attacking an Ironjawz brute, with the benefit of a triple-5 for rapid fire: 6*(8/6)=8 damage. What happened last night? 24 damage.

    And because this keeps. happening. over. and. over. I think it pushed some people over the edge. I've put that set of dice in time out unitl they decide to revert to the mean, but... I really don't like that this is a thing that can happen in the first place.
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Average damage from a Hurricane Raptor attacking an Ironjawz brute, with the benefit of a triple-5 for rapid fire: 6*(8/6)=8 damage. What happened last night? 24 damage.

    And because this keeps. happening. over. and. over. I think it pushed some people over the edge. I've put that set of dice in time out unitl they decide to revert to the mean, but... I really don't like that this is a thing that can happen in the first place.
    see, this is why I play LoN with 14 skelemen and 1 necromancer. you can't shoot them all!
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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Hey everybody! Long time since I've posted but I had a question. My good friend plays 40k with me, but I have a decent collection of squig based Gloomspite Gitz and he has recently shown interest in playing Age of Sigmar with me. Specifically, he's interested in Kharadron Overlords, because he loves dwarves and siege weapons. I know that the Kharadron Overlords haven't always been a top tier army, exactly, but I was wondering how they're doing nowadays, and specifically how they would do against squig based Gloomspite?

    They don't need to be top-tier, especially because he's more interested in the fluff/painting side of the hobby, but I'd like the games we play to be at least mostly fair.

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Robot Goat View Post
    Hey everybody! Long time since I've posted but I had a question. My good friend plays 40k with me, but I have a decent collection of squig based Gloomspite Gitz and he has recently shown interest in playing Age of Sigmar with me. Specifically, he's interested in Kharadron Overlords, because he loves dwarves and siege weapons. I know that the Kharadron Overlords haven't always been a top tier army, exactly, but I was wondering how they're doing nowadays, and specifically how they would do against squig based Gloomspite?

    They don't need to be top-tier, especially because he's more interested in the fluff/painting side of the hobby, but I'd like the games we play to be at least mostly fair.
    For your situation specifically, the Gitz are better than KO in general, but not by an insane margin. You'll have some close games, especially as shooting is a pretty big counter to the Gobbos.

    KO are actually imo fine now, but they rely on some pretty set-in-stone tactics to be truly strong. He'll want at least one unit of 30+ Arkanauts with maxed out Skyhooks, and a unit of 6-9 Eindrinriggers with Sawblades, plus enough Aether-Khemists to pump out those extra shots. Boats are a bit of a trap, but the midsized one (Frigate) with some shooty boys inside is fairly alright. He may also enjoy some allies, especially a Stormcast Wizard or two.

    Hope this helps!

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    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Alternatively unless he likes painting metal everything, you could go with Cities of Sigmar. Either use the 'dwarves with siege weapons' sub-faction literally as themselves, or make dwarf-versions of all the free guild stuff. Seen plenty of conversions for old fantasy elf units around, so it should also work with dorfs.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

    Thanks all for the responses, glad to hear that it wouldn't be the roughest match-up out there. I also recommended Free Cities, but he's worried that they aren't going to get new models. I do love the dwarf spear-men conversions I've seen out there, though.

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