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2021-09-13, 10:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
Steam ID: The Great Squark
3ds Friend Code: 4571-1588-1000
Currently Playing: Warhammer 40000, Hades, Stellaris, Warframe
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2021-09-13, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
Last edited by 9mm; 2021-09-13 at 10:44 AM.
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2021-09-13, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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2021-09-21, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
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- Australia
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Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
Given how much work GW is putting into Cathay with the recent reveals (stated up their armies for 8th Ed for use with Total War, reworked their entire lore - which includes retcons and other implications - and looking like they are adding them to The Old World), is it possible that they will add them (or something flavoured like them) to AoS? Especially if they are chasing the Chinese market like tehy seem to be trying to do.
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2022-03-14, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/...AryX4qcLM9.pdf
So new solution to problematic units is make them give up extra VPs to the opponents is definitely a choice.
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2022-03-14, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- Oxford, UK
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Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
I think I like it as mechanics go. It's easy to disregard for casual play, and dissuades players from taking the power units without nerfing them. It's been applied with a pretty light touch too - my double VLOZD army is safe.
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2022-03-15, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
This update is dumb. "We can't be arsed to actually fix problematic units with an Errata or other update, so here's some VPs. What's that, you play a bad army? Extra VPs for you. I'm a game designer!"
It's lazy and doesn't make me want to play the game. Oh, my Bonesplitterz can catch up on ponits now? How about giving us back all the rules that got removed during the last update? How about making all the units not suck? Is that too hard?
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2022-03-17, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
My initial reaction is negative as well. The RTT I'm going to this weekend is running these rules so I'll see what its like in practice, but Vince's breakdown on why this just isn't the solution really sums it up.
That said the amount of Kraggy + ranged bonesplitters and Kraggy + squig heard lists I see people posting in various chats is hilarious.Last edited by 9mm; 2022-03-17 at 01:28 PM.
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2022-03-17, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Durham, UK
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Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
It’s an interesting approach for sure, and it’ll be interesting to se how it affects things. It feels a little like a golf handicap system? Adjust victory parameters based on whether one side is weaker or stronger.
A definite advantage I’ve seen highlighted is that, in theory, it means that balance adjustments can be applied without players needing to change their army lists. If you change points players need to redesign their force, either with new models or choosing something to drop. But the ‘in theory’ is doing a lot of work there: will people want to carry on bringing the units that give up more points?Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2022-03-17, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
In theory, yes, if everyone keeps bringing the same minis it helps balance. In practice... who knows. People will adjust, just like they do to point changes, just like they do to Errata nerfs, just like they do to mission changes.
To be fully fair to GW, it probably helps balance as well as they mean it to. Being a Nighthaunt army into a particularly strong enemy like Legion of the First Prince will feel just as bad in terms of things both sides can do and relative power level, but you should win a few more of those games due to VPs. It's just so... inelegant.
I dunno, maybe I'm just cranky at the state of the game in general and this change isn't helping that.
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2022-03-17, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
I suppose my general feeling is that it is good to try to find additional things outside of errata and faq (which can be difficult to keep track of) as a balancing mechanism. This approach feels particularly suited as a way of balancing casual or pick-up games, where each person brings what they want and the scoring is able to compensate for one person bringing an army because they like that army and the other bringing a tournament favourite. And it is more straightforward and impactful than something like giving extra command points. But remains to be seen whether it’ll work in practice.
Gets me thinking of whether there are any other balancing methods that could be developed that work in a similar way, i.e. not affecting the rules of the units on the table or their points, but giving a boost to one side dependent on the match up?Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.
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2022-03-18, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
Except the newest change is also Errata.
This approach feels particularly suited as a way of balancing casual or pick-up games, where each person brings what they want and the scoring is able to compensate for one person bringing an army because they like that army and the other bringing a tournament favourite.
Then we keep going until such time as all units in the game hand out VPs based on their perceived quality...If you really wanted to go crazy, some units would be worth 0 VPs.
This leads us back to the old ways (and arguably the current ways of 40K, just in a different form):
How many Victory Points can a unit achieve throughout the game? Minus how many Victory Points a unit is worth.
If the answer is a positive number; It's a good unit. If the answer is negative, it's a bad unit.
And it is more straightforward and impactful than something like giving extra command points.
But as someone already said; It's not that rubber banding isn't a mechanic that can't work, it's a lazy mechanic. It's also a tacit admission that your game design is fundamentally broken - but let's not go down that road right now.
Mario Kart has rubber banding as one of its core tropes. Is rubber banding bad? ...Competitively? Yes. You intentionally lose in order to create for yourself an advantage, which then causes you to win, ultimately. It's basically incentivised hustling. You just have to find that line where you can still come back from the self-imposed disadvantage (See; Blood Bowl and how you don't want your players too good because you end up giving your opponent an advantage...It's a tricky meta-game to play, but it does exist).
Gets me thinking of whether there are any other balancing methods...
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2022-03-18, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
If this was a core mechanic of the game, and was regularly balanced around and made part of the GHB updates alongside points... I could see it potentially being interesting as another metric to tweak balance.
As a bandaid fix? I really don't like it. Especially when some of the units it's applied to are just... fundamentally problematic and need actual rewrites/errata and not just a bandaid.
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2022-03-20, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
RTT under my belt and this new Battlescroll is awful. If I kill Morathi and the Bowsnakes I'm winning the game anyway, even without the extra 4 VP. GW needs to sit down and actually solve the power projection issue instead of making players having to make early hail marry plays.
Side note: if it isn't 3 hour rounds I'm probably just not going in the future, and I maybe am going back to Nighthaunt before the new book or I finish Nagash. Soulblight just can frustrate me to no end.Last edited by 9mm; 2022-03-20 at 04:27 PM.
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2022-06-13, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!
Atlantic City Open Tourney Report
Spoiler: My list
Honestly this is pretty much what I ran all last year - Lady O to get under 2000 pts.
Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:
Leaders
Guardian of Souls (150)**
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Krulghast Cruciator (150)*
Reikenor the Grimhailer (190)*
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Spirit Torment (115)**
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Seal of Shyish
Battleline
20 x Chainrasps (220)*
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Chainrasps (220)*
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Grimghast Reapers (165)**
10 x Grimghast Reapers (165)**
Units
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (175)**
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (175)**
2 x Chainghasts (95)*
2 x Chainghasts (95)*
Endless Spells & Invocations
Mortalis Terminexus (85)
Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111
Drops: 2
Round 1: Beasts of chaos: couldn’t kill the Khorne demon prince till turn 3, and Nighthaunt army mechanics trigger on chargeing. Kept things close then he started summoning monsters and it wasn’t close anymore.
Round 2: Stormcast. Standard stormcast list of 4 dragons, the dragon hero, 6 longstrikes and 15 vindicators. Player said it was his fist time and my list has a strong matchup into his list. He conceded battleround 4.
Round 3: Meme Stormcast. Karazzai and Krondys bash brothers, PrimeTime and, 15 liberators. Viens of Ghur is a weird mission, had a strong start but a disastrous 3-4 double saw him score 26 VP, almost clawed back to a minor win but he had just enough movement to take an extra objective and win by 5.
Round 4: Nurgle: Flies made the longbomb into my heroes and killed 3 before I could even swing. A slow tabling followed. Kinda wish it was standard fly spam so I’d be tabled faster.
Round 5: Stormcast shoot castle: I appreciate stormkeep’s power, but I think Emerald Host will mean people will just not take it anymore because not getting to hide important pieces from being cursed in deepstrike just means important pieces melt. Also never deploy a castle against a list with Terminexus, if you don’t dispel it it will just melt your army. He conceded top of 3.
ended 2-3 with 2 relatively close games, and honestly 3 blowouts. Also my list needs serious work but with a new book this isn't that uprising.