Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

[LeSwordfish]

Next weekend, I'm taking part in a team-vs-team TTS competitive game (like a single round of a team tournament.) Matchups have been completed, so I know who I'm fighting and on what battleplan.

My List - Reapers Of Vengeance
Archaon
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage - Crimson Crown
Bloodstoker
Slaughterpriest - Bronzed Flesh
40 Bloodreavers
20 Bloodreavers
10 Bloodreavers
10 Bloodreavers
Hexgorger Skulls
Cronomantic Cogs
Dark Feast Batallion

The basic plan is: Archaon gets whipped by the bloodstoker, giving him an extra 3" run. He then uses a command point to get a 6" charge for an automatic 23" movement, and then the Bloodthirster's command ability (free, because of the crimson crown) allows him to pile in and fight from 6" away, meaning he doesn't need to roll a charge, and can avoid Activation Wars bull**** - giving him, for a single command point expenditure, a 29" threat range. If he can drop the Cogs that extends to 31". If I can get Bronzed Flesh and Mystic Shield off, he has a 2+rr save, and I can spend an additional command point on the Reapers of Vengeance command ability that lets him pile in and fight twice. This gives him a great chance of wiping out or crippling two large units in a turn.

My Opponent's List - Hermdar Lodge
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- Command Trait: Warrior Indominate
- Artefact: Tyrant Slayer
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Prayer: Searing Heat
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Battlesmith (140)
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (poleaxes)(400)
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (poleaxes)(400)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
Lords of the Lodge (150)
Runic Fyrewall (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

This list lets one unit of hearthguard berzerkers get buffed up to incredible levels - fight first twice, deal 2 mortal wounds on each 6 to hit, and have two wounds each with a 4+/4++. Apparently she usually also uses a deep strike ability to move the Vulkite Bezerkers around.

They offered us this matchup, so it's entirely possible I'm missing something - but I think Archaon hard counters this list pretty well. He forces re-rolls of 6 to hit against him and saves against mortal wounds, which means the Hearthguard do barely any damage to him, although he does barely any damage back (he might kill ten between both activations - although I'm hoping for slightly better than that first turn before all her buffs have gone in.)

We're playing Forcing The Hand (a weird stepped shaped deployment, each player has three objectives and chooses one of their own to be more valuable each turn), and I have enough drops to guarantee the choice of who goes first. I can set Archaon up to guarantee that he can reach any objective in the game in my first turn, so my basic strategy is:

• If Archaon can get a first-turn charge, I go first and nuke something first turn. He can probably take at least one of my opponent's objectives, even if not the important one. He can also pin something down straight away, and can probably kill any unit except the Hearthguard blocks in one turn, and then he's all up in your face.
• If he can't, I give her the first turn. She's forced to decide between advancing onto her own points (and into my threat range, without being able to charge me) or staying at the back and scoring no points.

I have some anti-wizard tech that will be wasted, but that's fine because it doesn't stop Archaon dropping his Cogs (and can still use the skulls to shield if needed). Or maybe I don't want to use the cogs, in order to stop the Fyreslayers also getting the increased movement?

Any thoughts?

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

Does the Bloodthirster's command ability override that rule for getting 1 model within 1" for a charge to be deemed successful?

[LeSwordfish]

Does the Bloodthirster's command ability override that rule for getting 1 model within 1" for a charge to be deemed successful?

The bloodthirster's command ability increases the range at which you can be selected to fight from 3" to 6", and allows you to pile in 6" - so I don't need to charge at all, just move/run within 6". This is great because it cuts off "fight first" abilities, and overrides "when charged" abilities - one of the other lists I could have been matched into was Seraphon, and it would have allowed me to entirely ignore the skinks' shoot-and-move-when-charged ability. We judged that the 6" pile in also applies to the second time you fight, so Archaon can pretty effectively chain from one unit to another assuming I pick my initial pile in well - which I can, because piling in is much less restrictive than charging.

[9mm]

Next weekend, I'm taking part in a team-vs-team TTS competitive game (like a single round of a team tournament.) Matchups have been completed, so I know who I'm fighting and on what battleplan.

My List - Reapers Of Vengeance
Archaon
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage - Crimson Crown
Bloodstoker
Slaughterpriest - Bronzed Flesh
40 Bloodreavers
20 Bloodreavers
10 Bloodreavers
10 Bloodreavers
Hexgorger Skulls
Cronomantic Cogs
Dark Feast Batallion

The basic plan is: Archaon gets whipped by the bloodstoker, giving him an extra 3" run. He then uses a command point to get a 6" charge for an automatic 23" movement, and then the Bloodthirster's command ability (free, because of the crimson crown) allows him to pile in and fight from 6" away, meaning he doesn't need to roll a charge, and can avoid Activation Wars bull**** - giving him, for a single command point expenditure, a 29" threat range. If he can drop the Cogs that extends to 31". If I can get Bronzed Flesh and Mystic Shield off, he has a 2+rr save, and I can spend an additional command point on the Reapers of Vengeance command ability that lets him pile in and fight twice. This gives him a great chance of wiping out or crippling two large units in a turn.

My Opponent's List - Hermdar Lodge
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- Command Trait: Warrior Indominate
- Artefact: Tyrant Slayer
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Prayer: Searing Heat
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Battlesmith (140)
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (poleaxes)(400)
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (poleaxes)(400)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
Lords of the Lodge (150)
Runic Fyrewall (40)
Extra Command Point (50)

This list lets one unit of hearthguard berzerkers get buffed up to incredible levels - fight first twice, deal 2 mortal wounds on each 6 to hit, and have two wounds each with a 4+/4++. Apparently she usually also uses a deep strike ability to move the Vulkite Bezerkers around.

They offered us this matchup, so it's entirely possible I'm missing something - but I think Archaon hard counters this list pretty well. He forces re-rolls of 6 to hit against him and saves against mortal wounds, which means the Hearthguard do barely any damage to him, although he does barely any damage back (he might kill ten between both activations - although I'm hoping for slightly better than that first turn before all her buffs have gone in.)

We're playing Forcing The Hand (a weird stepped shaped deployment, each player has three objectives and chooses one of their own to be more valuable each turn), and I have enough drops to guarantee the choice of who goes first. I can set Archaon up to guarantee that he can reach any objective in the game in my first turn, so my basic strategy is:

• If Archaon can get a first-turn charge, I go first and nuke something first turn. He can probably take at least one of my opponent's objectives, even if not the important one. He can also pin something down straight away, and can probably kill any unit except the Hearthguard blocks in one turn, and then he's all up in your face.
• If he can't, I give her the first turn. She's forced to decide between advancing onto her own points (and into my threat range, without being able to charge me) or staying at the back and scoring no points.

I have some anti-wizard tech that will be wasted, but that's fine because it doesn't stop Archaon dropping his Cogs (and can still use the skulls to shield if needed). Or maybe I don't want to use the cogs, in order to stop the Fyreslayers also getting the increased movement?

Any thoughts?

on Forcing the hand, your opponent probably holds the advantage. He'll happily just tie up Archaon with one block of berserkers, and buff the other to clear off your bloodthirster and reavers; how you use your 40 block will probably decide the game as that is the only point on the map you will have more bodies on the objective. I wouldn't cast cogs in the matchup.

[LeSwordfish]

on Forcing the hand, your opponent probably holds the advantage. He'll happily just tie up Archaon with one block of berserkers, and buff the other to clear off your bloodthirster and reavers; how you use your 40 block will probably decide the game as that is the only point on the map you will have more bodies on the objective. I wouldn't cast cogs in the matchup.

Possibly, but the biggest buff - fight first twice - can only be on one specific unit, and I have the mobility to choose to fight it. If I can keep the bloodthirster alive, I can freely choose what combat I'm in, since I can leave combat and pile into another in the same turn.

[LeSwordfish]

I lost, in the end! My opponent went first and dropped one of the big units in front of my army. Archaon did his thing and pinned it, but rolled appallingly for damage and killed about three dwarves between two activations. I made the mistake of turning him back from that unit to fight the others - they had various single-turn buffs up that made them move scarily fast, but I think if I'd kept my head and actually counted I would have realised they wouldn't have made it into combat for two or three turns, by which time I could have taken and kept a points lead. That was definitely what lost me it, but I could well have pulled it back with a bit more luck - I didn't win a single turn roll-off, and later Archaon and a unit of bloodletters together only killed four Vulkite Beserkers with two activations each.

It was a fun game, and not too much of a disaster for my first time with a nearly entirely new list.

[druid91]

Honestly kind of hyped with Anvil of Chaos. I play Disciples of Tzeentch, and my friend plays Blades of Khorne. So it works out pretty sweet.

[9mm]

well to the surprise of nobody, the last preview was AoS 3rd edition.

line of the preview "no rules ambiguity" guess GW is feeling bold today.

[PraetorDragoon]

well to the surprise of nobody, the last preview was AoS 3rd edition.

line of the preview "no rules ambiguity" guess GW is feeling bold today.

Would you bet quatloos that they succeed?

Still a good aim to have.

[LansXero]

Would you bet quatloos that they succeed?

Still a good aim to have.

Thats the aim that gave us 40k 9E, which is bloated but also still has people confused on this or that.

On one hand, removing Batallions mean no more 1-drop lists. Nerfing double-turns means the balance issues aren't exacerbated by going twice. But on the other hand, there are plenty of ways in which it can all go wrong. Time to wait and see.

[9mm]

so GHB 2021 points got leaked. LET THE WAILING BEGIN!

also the new soulsnare shackles are insane.


On a side note I went 2-3 at ACO with Nighthaunt, I think I got cogs off first turn once all tournament.

[LansXero]

Those points are completely irrelevant for some factions. Stormcast / Orruks will have their new books first, because Dominion, likely alongside the actual new starters, and then its a book a month. So time to spin the wheel and guess who gets fixed first and who is stuck sucking.

[LeSwordfish]

There are unconfirmed rumors that the factions after those first two are Maggotkin, Beasts Of Chaos, Ogors, and Gitz, including an Beasts Of Chaos vs Spider Riders box. That all seems fair to me, with only Ogors being much good out of those at the moment.

For my own armies, I'm liking what I'm seeing generally. Seraphon could do with being taken down a peg, and easy access to hero monsters makes them still powerful, so general points rises are appropriate. (though what harm were saurus doing?). Khorne... well, only small changes, less than most are getting, and though they had a lot of power in their battallions, they also had a lot of restrictions, and there's several cool heroes that are no longer out of the game due to not being in the best batallions. Soulblight were always an AOS3 book: i'll miss the batallions but so will everyone.

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

Those points are completely irrelevant for some factions. Stormcast / Orruks will have their new books first, because Dominion, likely alongside the actual new starters, and then its a book a month. So time to spin the wheel and guess who gets fixed first and who is stuck sucking.

For other factions it's a real kick in the teeth though. The assumption going into this was that Slaanesh wouldn't get any points increase because their points already reflected the new 3e points regimen. But the points increases they got simply can't be justified. In what world do Sentinels only go up 10 points while Blissbarb Archers cost what, 180 now? And Slaangors got a big increase too? Where is the logic?

Also yeah, those shackles really clarify that the game writers have no idea what they're doing. "Yes, what this game clearly needs is to buff shooting. So we'll give them Overwatch like in 40k 9e, only multiple units can do it, it doesn't have to be the unit charged, and it's only -1 to hit. Oh, let's also let threatened archer units run away instead if they want in the enemy's movement phase. And they can still shoot while in melee and into melee without restriction. No, not even -1 to hit. Oh know, but they might still be charged! Well we can change an endless spell to prevent that!"

[9mm]

For other factions it's a real kick in the teeth though. The assumption going into this was that Slaanesh wouldn't get any points increase because their points already reflected the new 3e points regimen. But the points increases they got simply can't be justified. In what world do Sentinels only go up 10 points while Blissbarb Archers cost what, 180 now? And Slaangors got a big increase too? Where is the logic?

When has GW ever had logic when they pointed something?

Also yeah, those shackles really clarify that the game writers have no idea what they're doing. "Yes, what this game clearly needs is to buff shooting. So we'll give them Overwatch like in 40k 9e, only multiple units can do it, it doesn't have to be the unit charged, and it's only -1 to hit. Oh, let's also let threatened archer units run away instead if they want in the enemy's movement phase. And they can still shoot while in melee and into melee without restriction. No, not even -1 to hit. Oh know, but they might still be charged! Well we can change an endless spell to prevent that!"

Unleash Hell can only be ordered once during your opponents charge phase thankfully, still not happy its in the game, but at least its something.

[LansXero]

Unleash Hell can only be ordered once during your opponents charge phase thankfully, still not happy its in the game, but at least its something.

Im so hoping Anvilstrike makes a comeback. Unleash Hell on 9 Longstrike Raptors is just yummy :v.

[Brookshw]

Tin foil hat time. The new undead start collecting got me wondering if GW is looking to update certain older lines with an eye for Old World. Wishful thinking probably, but does fit a pattern of releasing content with an expectation of cross usage against their game lines.

[LansXero]

Tin foil hat time. The new undead start collecting got me wondering if GW is looking to update certain older lines with an eye for Old World. Wishful thinking probably, but does fit a pattern of releasing content with an expectation of cross usage against their game lines.

Like Cursed City models being trash and only useable as an all-or-nothing option? Or WHU warbands also being trash?

I mean, I'd expect many of the grandfathered units like stuff from Cities or old Chaos models to be useable in Old World. But thats more 'lets bundle up these old as hell sculpts for this new book' than any concern for cross-playability. You'll need the new stuff like the Kilsev Hero and Bears anyways Im sure.

[LeSwordfish]

ah yes the classic undead army, with a 1+ lord choice of a giant kislevian bear

[Brookshw]

Like Cursed City models being trash and only useable as an all-or-nothing option? Or WHU warbands also being trash?

I mean, I'd expect many of the grandfathered units like stuff from Cities or old Chaos models to be useable in Old World. But thats more 'lets bundle up these old as hell sculpts for this new book' than any concern for cross-playability. You'll need the new stuff like the Kilsev Hero and Bears anyways Im sure.

In part I agree, in part disagree. One of the weaknesses of 30k is its fairly mono-faction, i.e., what color if power armor transhuman do you want to be. This isn't a great selling point and unnecessarily restricts purchasers options reducing attractive power. A broader, more diverse range that can be used in the game offers more avenue for consumer appeal. Whether something is "trash" isn't so relevant, at least outside of competitive mathhammer focused metals.

As to Kislev and the Cities range, if they're setting the game in the era of three emperors it seems necessary to distinguish them, I expect this will also lead to a line refresh and some unique units (but not that they'll show us yet, gotta save something for release!). And bears.

[LansXero]

ah yes the classic undead army, with a 1+ lord choice of a giant kislevian bear

If you say Death and Classic then you know who it'll be and he won't be playable in AoS but likely mandatory in Old World. So no matter how many blood knights, skellies and zombos you have, they're still gonna get money from you if you wanna play.

But then, a plastic Vlad Von Carstein isnt something people are going to complain about.

[9mm]

But then, a plastic Vlad Von Carstein isnt something people are going to complain about.

I'll settle for any non-derpy looking vamp lord. The new bat-hair one can look decent with a head swap, but still you need to headswap. I'll stick with my 2 3rd party vamps for now, and maybe switch over to the underworlds band whenever I get to them.

[LansXero]

I'll settle for any non-derpy looking vamp lord. The new bat-hair one can look decent with a head swap, but still you need to headswap. I'll stick with my 2 3rd party vamps for now, and maybe switch over to the underworlds band whenever I get to them.

I was gonna say, Crimson Court is the best source for vamp lords. Also sold out :v.

[Brookshw]

If you say Death and Classic then you know who it'll be and he won't be playable in AoS but likely mandatory in Old World. So no matter how many blood knights, skellies and zombos you have, they're still gonna get money from you if you wanna play.

But then, a plastic Vlad Von Carstein isnt something people are going to complain about.

True. Also possible we'd see the Red Duke considering we know they've been looking at Brittonia (oh look, they just re-released his story in the new omnibus).

[LansXero]

True. Also possible we'd see the Red Duke considering we know they've been looking at Brittonia (oh look, they just re-released his story in the new omnibus).

or Green Knight, or Fey Enchantress... the point is, even for cross-compatible armies they have plenty of stuff they can pull from thin air and add (like the Kislev releases) so you cant ever play Old World without shelling out for new old stuff. Anyone who thinks they can jump in with only their old Fantasy stuff or grandfathered AoS stuff truly doesnt understand how GW works.

[Eldan]

I mean, they have the perfect excuse to eliminate half the old Fantasy model range anyway. The Empire does not exist at this timepoint (it's the time of Four Emperors), and historically, depending on which year they choose, they can argue it's before the Invention of gunpowder, or at least its distribution to humans. There, done. Perfect excuse not to Reprint any of the old Empire stuff and instead Focus on Kislev and Vampires. Or just do a few of the Empire kits and just say the rest don't exist in this time period.

THat said, if anyone brings me some models and some more fluff on Ungol Hags and Baba Kislev, I'm in.

[LansXero]

I mean, they have the perfect excuse to eliminate half the old Fantasy model range anyway. The Empire does not exist at this timepoint (it's the time of Four Emperors), and historically, depending on which year they choose, they can argue it's before the Invention of gunpowder, or at least its distribution to humans. There, done. Perfect excuse not to Reprint any of the old Empire stuff and instead Focus on Kislev and Vampires. Or just do a few of the Empire kits and just say the rest don't exist in this time period.

THat said, if anyone brings me some models and some more fluff on Ungol Hags and Baba Kislev, I'm in.

There are so many things from Fantasy that never got a model. Or they can do new takes on old characters, like the new huge base HQs for AoS / 40k where its the named guy plus bodyguards so they can charge a ton for it.

I'd really like them to take the combined faction lists from End Times though. Sadly, its a game aimed at purists and neckbeards, so monofaction no soup is likely to be a selling point, yet I would've loved to be able to play TKs + vampires undead all stars or three flavors of elf in a single list, etc.

[Eldan]

Yeah, they are selling it as at least vaguely lore-accurate, and all the material they are bringing out is showing the time of four emperors, so they have to at least somewhat stick to that. So undead means Vampire Wars.

[Brookshw]

or Green Knight, or Fey Enchantress... the point is, even for cross-compatible armies they have plenty of stuff they can pull from thin air and add (like the Kislev releases) so you cant ever play Old World without shelling out for new old stuff. Anyone who thinks they can jump in with only their old Fantasy stuff or grandfathered AoS stuff truly doesnt understand how GW works.

True, though not exclusive of them updating certain lines they expect will be compatible. Come to think of it, if they can recoup any of the R&D/manufacturing costs they expect will be involved in the Old World product line now, rather than have to wait until the full launch, there's a definite business sense in going that route. I have no doubt they'll also have a nice spread of OW specific pieces.

[Cheesegear]

I was gonna say, Crimson Court is the best source for vamp lords. Also sold out :v.

This post is directly responsible for me buying a set of Crimson Court:
- I read this post.
- Checked webstore.
- Hopped down to my local FLGS where I bought their last set - they have no idea when they're gonna get more. Also picked up a set of the fishaelves with the crab and the fish.