Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

[LansXero]

This post is directly responsible for me buying a set of Crimson Court:
- I read this post.
- Checked webstore.
- Hopped down to my local FLGS where I bought their last set - they have no idea when IF they're gonna get more. Also picked up a set of the fishaelves with the crab and the fish.

Fixed that for you. Hopefully they will come back (Underworld warbands are supposed to be evergreen while legal) but with a new edition launching I doubt it'll be soon.

[LeSwordfish]

GW's supply chain with whoever does their card printing seems to have broken down pretty significantly- hence what happened to Cursed City. I'm confident the models will be available again, but we may not see the version with the cards in.

[Hootman]

So, I own a frankly ridiculous number of Tomb Kings models from back when those were a thing. The 3rd party heroes I got might actually be my first painted models. I bought...way too many starter kits, so I have basic skellies, Tomb Guard, cavalry, and chariots for days. I've never actually used them for anything but a few D&D fights, though.

A friend of mine plays AoS (trees), and has been bugging me to get in on it now that the world is moderately less deadly to breathe in. Is there actually a way to use what I have? I know they nuked TKs in some fashion when the game switched over, and have never bothered to look into it until now. It would be nice to get some use out of them, and painting them ought to be a breeze.

I also have some mecha-dwarf (Karadron? Something like that) models I got when they came out for steampunk reasons. Are they any good? I don't have as many, but enough to cobble together a small force presumably.

[LeSwordfish]

There are Legends rules for tomb kings. Legends rules are pretty basic, usually not very good, and definitely have not been checked for compatibility with the new edition.

However, Tomb Kings are just skeletons, right? Use the shiny new Soulblight Gravelords rules and map everything as 1:1 as you can. Skeletons are skeletons, cavalry are cavalry, tomb guard are grave guard... the challenges will be that there's no equivalent of either chariots or archers but you can probably work around that. A sufficiently fancy chariot could be run as Neferata or Manfred, they're on the right sort of size base, or a Lord On Zombie Dragon or Vengorian at a stretch. Or sell them and spend the money on something else. I saw a few NOS on ebay for £20 each, flog a couple near that rate and buy yourself a dragon.

An all-deathrattle army is by no means the strongest that Soulblight can run, and their most fun rules rely on some vampires IMO, but probably won't embarrass you too much. The real challenge will be that it all has to be on circular bases right now.

It's hard to say what's really good right now in the first week of the new edition, but Kharadron do some fun things. You might be able to find their Broken Realms box for cheap somewhere, which will give you a bunch more sky-dwarves at a discount.

[Hootman]

...the challenges will be that there's no equivalent of either chariots or archers but you can probably work around that.

Sigh. That's what I was afraid of. Chariots were like...85% of why I bought my TKs back in the day, and it's still disappointing that they aren't supported in any meaningful way. Another 5% was probably poisoned skelarchers with the Asp Queen, but I don't think I actually built too many of those, and I'm sure I have plenty more unbuilt that can be sword & board or spearbones or whatever.

I'll check out the Legends rules anyways, see if they might be passable for a "fun enough" trash-tier army. I don't mind playing up hill if the difficulty isn't a surprise. Just change your personal win condition to "killed 50% of the foe", or "chopped down that Tree King, and the rest doesn't matter".

[Destro_Yersul]

if you're just playing with friends, there's a pretty cool unofficial fan-made battletome for TK.

[9mm]

If you are moving TK to actual AoS, your going to have to do a ton of "Count As" outside of your basic Deathrattle Skelleton or Mortek Guard. Also you'll probably be pressured to pay attention to this document detailing base sizes.

I also have some mecha-dwarf (Karadron? Something like that) models I got when they came out for steampunk reasons. Are they any good? I don't have as many, but enough to cobble together a small force presumably.

KO were definitely Meta at the end of 2nd ED, and are probably still super good going into 3rd. We don't have enough data to know how much the current matched play battlepacks emphasis on monsters fully plays out yet for armies that don't have any.

[LansXero]

Table size really screws up with KO's main gimmick.

As for counts / as or proxy, get the right base sizes and just pretend its all Ossiarchs. Chariots can be Kavalos and whatnot, its a friendly game, who cares.

[LeSwordfish]

Incedentally I played my first game of AOS3 yesterday. I like it! The rules are clear and crisply written without 40k's Word Salad, and the restrictions on who can give and recieve command abilities, as well as command points vanishing at the end of the turn, mean that the command ability decisions are much more interesting than before, where you had fewer points and were probably buffing a megaunit as part of your gameplan.

[9mm]

Got my first 3.0 Tourny in, went 2-1. Lost to Scaven, beat Soulblight Gravelords and Bonesplitters. Ended up placing 7th.

The rules are clear and crisply written without 40k's Word Salad,

That reminds me I need to send in a FAQ email. "several battle tactics state you pick a monster in your starting army, can an army with no monsters select a non-monster unit for this tactic and pray they get the realmspell off or are those tactics closed to those armies?"

and the restrictions on who can give and recieve command abilities, as well as command points vanishing at the end of the turn, mean that the command ability decisions are much more interesting than before, where you had fewer points and were probably buffing a megaunit as part of your gameplan.

I honestly didn't notice more choices with command abilities so far. Then again I'm playing Nighthaunt, so I get like 3 total to play with.

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

One thing I can't for the life of me find, is the definition of "champion" for who can give command abilities. Where does it say which units have a champion? Is it in GHB?

[9mm]

One thing I can't for the life of me find, is the definition of "champion" for who can give command abilities. Where does it say which units have a champion? Is it in GHB?

it's clear from the dominion warscrolls and the 3.0 FAQs they are updating language and GW's being lazy; working definition for now is if the warscroll has "1 in X is a {different name}" the {different name} is a champion and can give commands.

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

So I'm not going crazy, they just haven't actually completed releasing the full rules yet so you can play the game without guessing which units can give themselves commands.

I expect that definition to be narrowed significantly, considering that the Nighthaunt preview said that Grimghast Reapers are "one of the few Nighthaunt infantry units with a champion" with their bell dude. Because most Nighthaunt infantry have a "one in x" variant, so either Community is wrong (shocker), or they don't intend Champions to be that common (which makes sense, otherwise there's little use to having Heroes to give them out).

[LeSwordfish]

That reminds me I need to send in a FAQ email. "several battle tactics state you pick a monster in your starting army, can an army with no monsters select a non-monster unit for this tactic and pray they get the realmspell off or are those tactics closed to those armies?"

Do you mean the Battle Tactic (choose per turn) or the Grand Strategy (choose for your army)? While it's totally legit to choose a battle tactic that you can't achieve, then try to make it achievable with a spell, I'm willing to bet your Starting Army doesn't include keywords added mid-game.

I honestly didn't notice more choices with command abilities so far. Then again I'm playing Nighthaunt, so I get like 3 total to play with.

The basic ones in the book are very good! I ended up using them way more than my Soulblight ones: not much compares to +1 save on an already-3+ VLOZD or Blood Knights, or a Vengorian who's already ignoring a point of rend.

I expect that definition to be narrowed significantly, considering that the Nighthaunt preview said that Grimghast Reapers are "one of the few Nighthaunt infantry units with a champion" with their bell dude. Because most Nighthaunt infantry have a "one in x" variant, so either Community is wrong (shocker), or they don't intend Champions to be that common (which makes sense, otherwise there's little use to having Heroes to give them out).

I'm going to make a confident prediction that this is Just Plain Wrong - for the moment, at least. Maybe there'll be fewer in the future, but I think for the moment the Rules As Intended is pretty clearly that it includes all your Liberator Primes, Hekatrixes, Pack Leaders, etc etc.

[9mm]

Do you mean the Battle Tactic (choose per turn) or the Grand Strategy (choose for your army)? While it's totally legit to choose a battle tactic that you can't achieve, then try to make it achievable with a spell, I'm willing to bet your Starting Army doesn't include keywords added mid-game.

The question is really just about Monstrous Takeover, but I'm wording it to future proof.

The basic ones in the book are very good! I ended up using them way more than my Soulblight ones: not much compares to +1 save on an already-3+ VLOZD or Blood Knights, or a Vengorian who's already ignoring a point of rend.

they are, just less so for Nighthaunt which will mostly just use all out attack, redeploy, and the occasional unleash hell with the Cruciator. Especially in Reikoner's Condemned subfaction.

[9mm]

So looking at declared factions for Summer Slaughter...

12 potential Archaons and 33 potential Gotreks.

[Tome]

Ooh, the new dragons look cool.

If I had the money I'd probably be grabbing the caster dragon and starting a stormcast army.

[9mm]

Well Summer Slaughter came and went.

my list

Spoiler

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Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Reikenor's Condemned
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135) in Command Entourage
- Artefact: Corpse Candle
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Krulghast Cruciator (120) in Command Entourage
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain
Reikenor the Grimhailer (165) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Spirit Torment (115) in Command Entourage
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Shademist
UNITS

2 x Chainghasts (75) in Battle Regiment
2 x Chainghasts (75) in Battle Regiment
20 x Chainrasp Horde (190) in Battle Regiment
20 x Chainrasp Horde (190) in Battle Regiment
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Battle Regiment
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Battle Regiment
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Battle Regiment
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Battle Regiment

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Mortalis Terminexus (85)

CORE BATTALIONS
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Battle Regiment
Battle Regiment

Round 1: First Blood vs Teclis build LRL
Opponent was obviously new to Lumiith and moved Teclis up the board and never used him to cast total eclipse. I beat Teclis to death with chainrasps. 25 to 11 win.

Round 2: Tooth and Nail vs Bloodtoof Ironjaws
The dreaded "you don't get some of your allegiance albites" mission strikes again. Gordrakk got out of control before I could get Olynder is position to maybe deal with him and I'm tabled in the bottom of 4. 13 to 28 loss.

round 3: Burn and Pillage vs Khorne w/ Archaon.
After Archaon killed my entire right flank on his first charge, I was able to bog him down feeding him a single unit each battle round while my dreadsyths and reapers murdered everything else. super close game 28 to 25 win.

Round 4: Feral Foray vs Giants
dude had a super weird build of 1 pack of 3, 2 megas, and 3 single giants. the Terminexus was able to really soften up all the giants, and he couldn't reach Olynder who just proceeded to Mortal wound all the things. I tabled him at the top of 4 for the 32 to 21 win.

Round 5: Survival of the fittest vs Fangs of Sotek w/ Kroak.
So terrain placement on this table meant his realmshaper engine could hit my whole army easily, Kroak could just overpower my casting, and his faction abilitys just meant I had very few good choices or ability to do any damage. I'm effectively tabled in 2 shooting phases, and finished off in 3. 8 to 31 loss.

overall record 3-2 with an overal finish of 41st. Still trying to decide if my two tablings mean if my opponents meet the dps check I just auto lose or if I got dice spiked. Tooth and Nail meant Gordrakk could go for the squisher hammers before I could throw a tarpit in his way, while I can safely say Fangs is just a horrendous match up. I also still need to work on using Olynder as she's a house, but very short ranged and slow. Also I'm definitely deciding that battle tactics giving more VP if a monster is involved is bad civilization, as armies like mine are almost completely locked to a total of 28 vps unless I buy from Forgeworld or ally in a faction Gargent merc.

[Requizen]

Well Summer Slaughter came and went.

my list

Spoiler

Show

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Reikenor's Condemned
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADERS
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135) in Command Entourage
- Artefact: Corpse Candle
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Krulghast Cruciator (120) in Command Entourage
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Lady Olynder, Mortarch of Grief (215) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Underworlds: Spirit Drain
Reikenor the Grimhailer (165) in Battle Regiment
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage
Spirit Torment (115) in Command Entourage
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Shademist
UNITS

2 x Chainghasts (75) in Battle Regiment
2 x Chainghasts (75) in Battle Regiment
20 x Chainrasp Horde (190) in Battle Regiment
20 x Chainrasp Horde (190) in Battle Regiment
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Battle Regiment
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Battle Regiment
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Battle Regiment
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Battle Regiment

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Mortalis Terminexus (85)

CORE BATTALIONS
Command Entourage - Magnificent
Battle Regiment
Battle Regiment

Round 1: First Blood vs Teclis build LRL
Opponent was obviously new to Lumiith and moved Teclis up the board and never used him to cast total eclipse. I beat Teclis to death with chainrasps. 25 to 11 win.

Round 2: Tooth and Nail vs Bloodtoof Ironjaws
The dreaded "you don't get some of your allegiance albites" mission strikes again. Gordrakk got out of control before I could get Olynder is position to maybe deal with him and I'm tabled in the bottom of 4. 13 to 28 loss.

round 3: Burn and Pillage vs Khorne w/ Archaon.
After Archaon killed my entire right flank on his first charge, I was able to bog him down feeding him a single unit each battle round while my dreadsyths and reapers murdered everything else. super close game 28 to 25 win.

Round 4: Feral Foray vs Giants
dude had a super weird build of 1 pack of 3, 2 megas, and 3 single giants. the Terminexus was able to really soften up all the giants, and he couldn't reach Olynder who just proceeded to Mortal wound all the things. I tabled him at the top of 4 for the 32 to 21 win.

Round 5: Survival of the fittest vs Fangs of Sotek w/ Kroak.
So terrain placement on this table meant his realmshaper engine could hit my whole army easily, Kroak could just overpower my casting, and his faction abilitys just meant I had very few good choices or ability to do any damage. I'm effectively tabled in 2 shooting phases, and finished off in 3. 8 to 31 loss.

overall record 3-2 with an overal finish of 41st. Still trying to decide if my two tablings mean if my opponents meet the dps check I just auto lose or if I got dice spiked. Tooth and Nail meant Gordrakk could go for the squisher hammers before I could throw a tarpit in his way, while I can safely say Fangs is just a horrendous match up. I also still need to work on using Olynder as she's a house, but very short ranged and slow. Also I'm definitely deciding that battle tactics giving more VP if a monster is involved is bad civilization, as armies like mine are almost completely locked to a total of 28 vps unless I buy from Forgeworld or ally in a faction Gargent merc.

Nice report! Always cool to see Nighthaunt going positive in an event.

I'm also a bit annoyed with the push on Monsters, given how many factions are limited to bad or no Monsters. Same with putting a lot on Heroes, there's a non-zero amount of factions that only have support Heroes that don't want to fight, or are forced into specific builds to take advantage of those types of units. Still, the ruleset and Matched Play season seems overall solid. And nice to see some variety in opponents as well, not just 5 games of Archaeon that the internet has told me to expect

[9mm]

August FAQs are up!

aaaannd Nighthaunt didn't get one.

in other news: Horrors got a complete warscroll rewrite and now explicitly prevent you bring back horrors that split, 8 metal cruncher is gone, and OBR actually works again.

[Requizen]

Stacking Ward Saves are the worst mistake they've made in AoS in a long time. No idea why they even okayed that. Probably because the FAQs get minimal (if any) proofreading before going out.

[9mm]

Stacking Ward Saves are the worst mistake they've made in AoS in a long time. No idea why they even okayed that. Probably because the FAQs get minimal (if any) proofreading before going out.

I bet its because they thought what they labeled as "the most important rule" in GHB 2020 was in the core rulebook for 3.0. That said my midnight tome may well become an Amulet of Destiny, even if I can't give it to Lady O.

What I don't get is why all these things that are obviously going to be rewritten as ward saves aren't just being turned into ward saves now.

[Requizen]

I bet its because they thought what they labeled as "the most important rule" in GHB 2020 was in the core rulebook for 3.0. That said my midnight tome may well become an Amulet of Destiny, even if I can't give it to Lady O.

What I don't get is why all these things that are obviously going to be rewritten as ward saves aren't just being turned into ward saves now.

You mean all the stuff that people will buy for games and events, until the new book comes out and the things they bought aren't nearly as good anymore so they're forced to buy new stuff?
Hm, I wonder.

Snide joking aside - probably because they don't actually see the issue with it, and won't until it completely screws up every publicly visible event. Then they'll change it and act like magnanimous saviors.

[LeSwordfish]

You mean all the stuff that people will buy for games and events, until the new book comes out and the things they bought aren't nearly as good anymore so they're forced to buy new stuff?
Hm, I wonder.

Apparently it was a whoopsie and they'll be fixing it ASAP, which could be as soon as today since Monday was a Bank Holiday here.

---

I went to a tournament on Saturday! Three games in one day. I was mostly practicing for LGT at the end of September, so i'm running a tentative test version of my Soulblight list for then. That's a team tournament, so I'm letting more people than myself down if I beef it.

My List:
Soulblight Gravelords, Kastelai Dynasty
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon - Rousing Commander general trait, Fragment Of The Keep artefact, Pinions spell
Prince Vhordrai - Pinions spell
Coven Throne - Pinions spell
Vampire Lord - Amaranthine Orb spell
5x Blood Knights
5x Blood Knights
20x Zombies
3x Vargheists

Kastelai only buffs vampires, so this is very vampire-heavy. Most comp AOS lists right now are running Teclis, Morathi, a Megagargant, something along those lines - in a meta of "bring your god model or lose", my god is Nagash two dragons. They move fast, can pick up +1 wound and +1 damage for a turn from the VLoZD's command trait (or forever if they kill something), and the Coven Throne can force multiply them very effectively with +1 to hit, wound, and save from hero phase to hero phase. Vhordrai has a useful spell that gives himself +1 hit and wound as well, and I'm hoping I can set things up well to get some big charges on big monsters.

The Blood Knights come in from board edges, and the Vargheists come in from space. I'm putting together three more Vargheists so can run two units of three.

Game One vs Lumineth Realm-Lords

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I'm one of those people who hates elves now.

My opponent set up a castle of Teclis, Spearmen, and Archers at the back of the board, around a Windmage with Goading Arrogance, and informed me that one unit within 6" of the Windmage would need to fight the Windmage instead of whatever it could actually reach, thus effortlessly turning off one of my dragons - and that's if I could make it into close combat with both, given that I'd need two turns to cross the board. Okay, fine - can't break the castle, use mobility and take objectives... this game is Veins of Ghur, and the objectives don't come on until later, and are scored more valuably late in the game. I set my Grand Strategy to kill one of his battleline units, some pikemen outside the castle, and throw some Blood Knights at them from the board edge... they fail the charge and the re-roll. Teclis effortlessly no-sells all my magic, including the Amethystine Pinions that would have allowed me to get to Melee Range.. Total Eclipse no-sells most of my command abilities. In his turn he peels a few units off the castle to kill my blood knights and Vhordrai. In my turn two, he redeploys some pikemen to stop a sneaky sideways charge at the castle from my dragon. The objective comes down under teclis.

My dragon dies in his turn two, and I concede, less than an hour in. This was the worst game i've ever played, and if the other games had been like it I would have resigned from LGT: if this is the standard of game I could expect, I'd save myself the money and spend the weekend on the sofa instead. Trying to think of other strategies I could have used:

• Play to his strengths, and try for a turn two charge with both dragons. I think in the best case scenario I buff them both up pretty big and he's forced to choose which one is allowed to fight - but it won't be the one fighting teclis, will it? So in the best case scenario I kill some pikemen, and maybe break the castle the following turn, if I get the double. And that's turn two, so after taking a bunch of shooting and magic to the face. Maybe if I could have got some Blood Knights in as well? That would have taken at least until turn 2 or 3 to do (no Pinions to boost my speed! Teclis says No!) and relies on him sitting there and doing nothing but waiting for me to get my ducks in a row.
• Cower until the objectives come on, and then make a grab for them with my mobile stuff. There wasn't enough terrain to completely hide from his shooting/magic, and he had Speed of Hysh on half his units so could turbo-boost onto objectives as effectively as I could, and he would have been scoring Battle Tactics while I wouldn't have been able to.

It's very dispiriting to face a list that just "Nuh-uh"'s most of your stuff. This guy is apparently a serious tournament player, and went on to win the day. I hope on his way home he tried to get on the bus and the bus driver said "you don't get to do that" and drove away. Through a puddle so it splashed him.

Game Two, vs Lumineth Realm-Lords (sigh)

Spoiler

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This wasn't so bad! No Goading Arrogance, no Teclis, some more interesting enemies like the Swordsmen and Hammers, and Avalenor. I managed to get a good solid two-dragon charge on Avalenor in the first turn, and thanks to the Coven Throne and Hero/Monster abilities, I was pretty buff when I did it. Sadly, that wasn't enough - I'm aware Avalenor is a tough cookie (2+ save, -1 to be wounded) but rolled pretty poorly - I had four five-damage attacks, four three-damage attacks, seven d6-damage attacks (including shooting), and fourteen 2-damage attacks... and I dealt nine wounds. He crippled Vhordrai in return, and then killed my Vampire Lord with shooting the next turn. My Blood Knights successfully charged the Loreseeker who was claiming an objective, but failed to kill him over about four turns, and my Vampire Lord and Zombies together took down two units of cavalry - the zombies died to morale, popped back up the same turn on an objective... which my opponent then got to remove, thanks to Ghur.

I conceded this one as well - three turns in, both my dragons and my coven throne were down, as were my Vargheists and most of my Blood Knights (thanks to clever use of Entomb to kill two) - but at least this time I felt like I was playing the game. Killing Avalenor might not have won it for me - there was a lot of incoming fire and swords the next turn - but at least I would have got a nice big scalp.

Game Three, vs Soulblight Gravelords

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This was much more enjoyable than either, mostly because I'd now scored two catastrophic defeats in a row and so was facing off against an opponent in a similar situation. His list was sort of similar to mine, except he had three units of blood knights instead of two, and swapped the throne, foot vamp, zombies, and vargheists for a Megagargant, which seems a surprisingly obvious change when you say it.

He gave me first turn and I chose to get some battle points for sitting on objectives and edging behind enemy lines, but otherwise didn't move forward at all - a good choice, as next turn his two dragons killed my blood knights, and his megagargant got uncomfortably close to my Dragons and Throne. He was gambling on a double and got it, and I thought the game was over, but he made (I think) a fairly serious misplay by charging all three of them and assigning attacks between them, rather than focussing on one. Outnumbering him on monsters was good - it meant one could roar and the other could go for a Titanic Duel, which with magic and command abilities meant that both Dragons were on +2 to save, and I barely took any damage from a full-strength vampire charge! Empowered by that, I used Rousing Commander for bonus damage, and between the two dragons took the megagargant down in one turn!

This was pivotal but the game still wasn't in the bag - his other heavy hitters were by now all up in my lines, and I had to throw Vhordrai in front of two dragons in order to let the VLoZD and Coven Throne take on some blood knights that were chewing through my zombies at an alarming rate. I was hoping Vhordrai - at full health from eating a giant, and buffed to +2 save - could tank the two enemy dragons but apparently not, meaning they spent the rest of the game chasing my dwindling forces around the board. In the end, I was badly outnumbered in the final turn, with my VLoZD dying to his in a mirror match (seriously, we had done the same conversion), but very slightly ahead on points when the final bell rang - a victory to me, 28-27.

I think i did... acceptably? Losing the first game wasn't a surprise against some real pro list-building and top-tier play - I was a puppy in a woodchipper, and coming out of that worse is not really the puppy's fault. (I want to try and distinguish the loss (to be expected) from the Negative Play Experience (**** elves). I did my best in game two, and managed to pull a win out on game three. Given that my last tournament record was 1-4, this technically represents improvement. In a pure maths sense.

When this list was pitched to me, the Coven Throne was replaced with a Vengorian Lord, and the ordinary Vamp with three more Vargheists. I would definitely rather have the Vargheists than the Vampire - he achieved nothing in two games, and did a few cursory wounds to some Dawnriders on another. He's not fast enough to be a solo hero, and i'm dubious about his ability to buff the zombies enough to justify not having another 16 wounds of Deep Striking unit. However, I think the Coven Throne has earned it's place - the Command Point economy being what it is, applying + to hit, wound, and save for an entire turn is too good to pass up - even with the Vengorian Lord's worsening of rend and increased fightiness. The only real place to save points to get the extra Vargheists is swapping 20 Zombies for 10 Skeletons, which i'm cautious about because the Zombies don't do much, but took two pretty hefty cavalry charges (5 Blood Knights, 10 Dawnriders) without being wiped out in one turn, something half as many wounds would not have done. They also pretty effectively screened off a corner of the board in game three, forcing my opponent into a tricky 11" charge around terrain instead of a straight shot from the backfield.

[Requizen]

Apparently it was a whoopsie and they'll be fixing it ASAP, which could be as soon as today since Monday was a Bank Holiday here.

---

I went to a tournament on Saturday! Three games in one day. I was mostly practicing for LGT at the end of September, so i'm running a tentative test version of my Soulblight list for then. That's a team tournament, so I'm letting more people than myself down if I beef it.

My List:
Soulblight Gravelords, Kastelai Dynasty
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon - Rousing Commander general trait, Fragment Of The Keep artefact, Pinions spell
Prince Vhordrai - Pinions spell
Coven Throne - Pinions spell
Vampire Lord - Amaranthine Orb spell
5x Blood Knights
5x Blood Knights
20x Zombies
3x Vargheists

Kastelai only buffs vampires, so this is very vampire-heavy. Most comp AOS lists right now are running Teclis, Morathi, a Megagargant, something along those lines - in a meta of "bring your god model or lose", my god is Nagash two dragons. They move fast, can pick up +1 wound and +1 damage for a turn from the VLoZD's command trait (or forever if they kill something), and the Coven Throne can force multiply them very effectively with +1 to hit, wound, and save from hero phase to hero phase. Vhordrai has a useful spell that gives himself +1 hit and wound as well, and I'm hoping I can set things up well to get some big charges on big monsters.

The Blood Knights come in from board edges, and the Vargheists come in from space. I'm putting together three more Vargheists so can run two units of three.

Game One vs Lumineth Realm-Lords

Spoiler

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I'm one of those people who hates elves now.

My opponent set up a castle of Teclis, Spearmen, and Archers at the back of the board, around a Windmage with Goading Arrogance, and informed me that one unit within 6" of the Windmage would need to fight the Windmage instead of whatever it could actually reach, thus effortlessly turning off one of my dragons - and that's if I could make it into close combat with both, given that I'd need two turns to cross the board. Okay, fine - can't break the castle, use mobility and take objectives... this game is Veins of Ghur, and the objectives don't come on until later, and are scored more valuably late in the game. I set my Grand Strategy to kill one of his battleline units, some pikemen outside the castle, and throw some Blood Knights at them from the board edge... they fail the charge and the re-roll. Teclis effortlessly no-sells all my magic, including the Amethystine Pinions that would have allowed me to get to Melee Range.. Total Eclipse no-sells most of my command abilities. In his turn he peels a few units off the castle to kill my blood knights and Vhordrai. In my turn two, he redeploys some pikemen to stop a sneaky sideways charge at the castle from my dragon. The objective comes down under teclis.

My dragon dies in his turn two, and I concede, less than an hour in. This was the worst game i've ever played, and if the other games had been like it I would have resigned from LGT: if this is the standard of game I could expect, I'd save myself the money and spend the weekend on the sofa instead. Trying to think of other strategies I could have used:

• Play to his strengths, and try for a turn two charge with both dragons. I think in the best case scenario I buff them both up pretty big and he's forced to choose which one is allowed to fight - but it won't be the one fighting teclis, will it? So in the best case scenario I kill some pikemen, and maybe break the castle the following turn, if I get the double. And that's turn two, so after taking a bunch of shooting and magic to the face. Maybe if I could have got some Blood Knights in as well? That would have taken at least until turn 2 or 3 to do (no Pinions to boost my speed! Teclis says No!) and relies on him sitting there and doing nothing but waiting for me to get my ducks in a row.
• Cower until the objectives come on, and then make a grab for them with my mobile stuff. There wasn't enough terrain to completely hide from his shooting/magic, and he had Speed of Hysh on half his units so could turbo-boost onto objectives as effectively as I could, and he would have been scoring Battle Tactics while I wouldn't have been able to.

It's very dispiriting to face a list that just "Nuh-uh"'s most of your stuff. This guy is apparently a serious tournament player, and went on to win the day. I hope on his way home he tried to get on the bus and the bus driver said "you don't get to do that" and drove away. Through a puddle so it splashed him.

Game Two, vs Lumineth Realm-Lords (sigh)

Spoiler

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This wasn't so bad! No Goading Arrogance, no Teclis, some more interesting enemies like the Swordsmen and Hammers, and Avalenor. I managed to get a good solid two-dragon charge on Avalenor in the first turn, and thanks to the Coven Throne and Hero/Monster abilities, I was pretty buff when I did it. Sadly, that wasn't enough - I'm aware Avalenor is a tough cookie (2+ save, -1 to be wounded) but rolled pretty poorly - I had four five-damage attacks, four three-damage attacks, seven d6-damage attacks (including shooting), and fourteen 2-damage attacks... and I dealt nine wounds. He crippled Vhordrai in return, and then killed my Vampire Lord with shooting the next turn. My Blood Knights successfully charged the Loreseeker who was claiming an objective, but failed to kill him over about four turns, and my Vampire Lord and Zombies together took down two units of cavalry - the zombies died to morale, popped back up the same turn on an objective... which my opponent then got to remove, thanks to Ghur.

I conceded this one as well - three turns in, both my dragons and my coven throne were down, as were my Vargheists and most of my Blood Knights (thanks to clever use of Entomb to kill two) - but at least this time I felt like I was playing the game. Killing Avalenor might not have won it for me - there was a lot of incoming fire and swords the next turn - but at least I would have got a nice big scalp.

Game Three, vs Soulblight Gravelords

Spoiler

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This was much more enjoyable than either, mostly because I'd now scored two catastrophic defeats in a row and so was facing off against an opponent in a similar situation. His list was sort of similar to mine, except he had three units of blood knights instead of two, and swapped the throne, foot vamp, zombies, and vargheists for a Megagargant, which seems a surprisingly obvious change when you say it.

He gave me first turn and I chose to get some battle points for sitting on objectives and edging behind enemy lines, but otherwise didn't move forward at all - a good choice, as next turn his two dragons killed my blood knights, and his megagargant got uncomfortably close to my Dragons and Throne. He was gambling on a double and got it, and I thought the game was over, but he made (I think) a fairly serious misplay by charging all three of them and assigning attacks between them, rather than focussing on one. Outnumbering him on monsters was good - it meant one could roar and the other could go for a Titanic Duel, which with magic and command abilities meant that both Dragons were on +2 to save, and I barely took any damage from a full-strength vampire charge! Empowered by that, I used Rousing Commander for bonus damage, and between the two dragons took the megagargant down in one turn!

This was pivotal but the game still wasn't in the bag - his other heavy hitters were by now all up in my lines, and I had to throw Vhordrai in front of two dragons in order to let the VLoZD and Coven Throne take on some blood knights that were chewing through my zombies at an alarming rate. I was hoping Vhordrai - at full health from eating a giant, and buffed to +2 save - could tank the two enemy dragons but apparently not, meaning they spent the rest of the game chasing my dwindling forces around the board. In the end, I was badly outnumbered in the final turn, with my VLoZD dying to his in a mirror match (seriously, we had done the same conversion), but very slightly ahead on points when the final bell rang - a victory to me, 28-27.

I think i did... acceptably? Losing the first game wasn't a surprise against some real pro list-building and top-tier play - I was a puppy in a woodchipper, and coming out of that worse is not really the puppy's fault. (I want to try and distinguish the loss (to be expected) from the Negative Play Experience (**** elves). I did my best in game two, and managed to pull a win out on game three. Given that my last tournament record was 1-4, this technically represents improvement. In a pure maths sense.

When this list was pitched to me, the Coven Throne was replaced with a Vengorian Lord, and the ordinary Vamp with three more Vargheists. I would definitely rather have the Vargheists than the Vampire - he achieved nothing in two games, and did a few cursory wounds to some Dawnriders on another. He's not fast enough to be a solo hero, and i'm dubious about his ability to buff the zombies enough to justify not having another 16 wounds of Deep Striking unit. However, I think the Coven Throne has earned it's place - the Command Point economy being what it is, applying + to hit, wound, and save for an entire turn is too good to pass up - even with the Vengorian Lord's worsening of rend and increased fightiness. The only real place to save points to get the extra Vargheists is swapping 20 Zombies for 10 Skeletons, which i'm cautious about because the Zombies don't do much, but took two pretty hefty cavalry charges (5 Blood Knights, 10 Dawnriders) without being wiped out in one turn, something half as many wounds would not have done. They also pretty effectively screened off a corner of the board in game three, forcing my opponent into a tricky 11" charge around terrain instead of a straight shot from the backfield.

Seems like a pretty reasonable event given the enemies. I think LRL are pretty hard for Soublight, who go pretty hard into a couple power units and are really hurt if they get negated... which LRL are stupid good at.

I do like the list overall but I'm a few steps removed from the current meta so I probably can't speak to it in that regard. I do like the idea of getting more Vargheists in there, might be worth trying out.

[LeSwordfish]

Seems like a pretty reasonable event given the enemies. I think LRL are pretty hard for Soublight, who go pretty hard into a couple power units and are really hurt if they get negated... which LRL are stupid good at.

Yeah - I bet "one unit doesn't get to fight" is excellent against, say, Morathi or Gotrek. (Hell, I bet my list is unusually resilient because I have two power units, not just the one).

If I want Vargheists, I have to shave 15 points elsewhere (as well as dropping the vampire lord). Only real place to do that is the zombies. (Coven Throne to Vengorian Lord would do it, but I don't have a vengorian, or time/energy to paint one).

[Squark]

Looking at a couple of variations for my Stormcast Eternals' 1500 pt escalation list, and would like some thoughts. Bear in mind that I'm working without the battletome because spending $40-50 on it didn't make sense two months ago, and makes even less sense now

Spoiler: Pure SC

Show

1475/1500 points
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired

Battle Regiment

Commander: Lord Celestant - 160 points (G)
-Master of Magic, Arcane Tome, Flaming Weapon

Troops: Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Artillery: Celestar Ballista -120 points

Subtotal: 700 points

Battle Regiment

Commander: Lord-Ordinator -150 points
-Twin Hammers

Troops: Annihilators -190 points

Gryph-hounds -130 points

Praetors -155 points

Artillery: Celestar Ballista -120 points

Subtotal: 745 points

Malign Sorcery: Dias Arcanum - 30 points

Spoiler: Gotrek+Ballistas

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1495/1500 points
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired

Vanguard Battalion

Sub-commander: Lord-Veritant -120 points (G)
-High Priest, Healing

Troops: Gryph-Hounds -130 points

Gotrek Gurnisson -435 points (Mercenary)

Subtotal: 685 points

Hunters of the Heartlands Battalion

Troops: Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Subtotal:420 points

Grand Battery Battalion

Sub-commander: Lord-Ordinator -150 points
-Astral hammers, Arcane Tome, Flaming Weapon

Artillery: Celestar Ballista - 120 points

Celestar Ballista -120 points

Sub-total: 390 points

Spoiler: Gotrek with more Infantry

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1490/1500 points
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired

Vanguard Battalion

Subcommander: Lord-Imperatant -160 points (G)
-Battle Lust

Troops: Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Subtotal: 580 points

Vanguard Battalion

Sub Commander: Lord-Castellant -130 points
-Arcane Tome, Flaming Weapon

Troops: Annihilators -190 points

Praetors -155 points

Gotrek Gurnisson -435 points (Mercenary)

Subtotal:910 points

I'm afraid I'm still very much a novice, (As of yet, I've only played 3 games). I'd rather not purchase anything more until the battletome comes out, but I do have a few other things I picked up that could be used instead

Spoiler: What I have

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Heroes: Knight-Arcanum
Knight-Incantor
Knight-Vexillor with Banner of Apotheosis
Lord-Castellant
Lord-Imperitant
Lord-Ordinator
Lord-Veritant
Yndrasta, the Celestial Spear

Battleline: 15 Vindictors in units of 5

Other Units: 6 Aetherwings (Assembling them has been the bane of my existence. I'd rather not have to paint them if I don't have to)
3 Annihilators
3 Castigators
2 Celestar Ballistas
15 Gryph-Hounds
3 Praetors
2 Celestar Ballistas
The Farstriders (Leftover from when I tried Warcry)
6 Vanguard Raptors (3 with Longstrike Crossbows, 3 not fully assembled)

The Stormcast Eternals Endless Spells
Allies: Gotrek Gurnisson

[LeSwordfish]

I can't speak for the stormcast that much (we're a month out from the next book, no point really) just checking - you do know not everything has to be in a Batallion, right? Obviously you get more benefits for more Batallions, but I noticed everything in all your lists is in one and wanted to clarify that that's not necessary, its not like 40k.

[Squark]

I can't speak for the stormcast that much (we're a month out from the next book, no point really) just checking - you do know not everything has to be in a Batallion, right? Obviously you get more benefits for more Batallions, but I noticed everything in all your lists is in one and wanted to clarify that that's not necessary, its not like 40k.

Yes, I'm aware. Everything just fit relatively nicely. I wasn't actually building towards the battalions, just seeing how I could fit what I took into them.

[9mm]

Looking at a couple of variations for my Stormcast Eternals' 1500 pt escalation list, and would like some thoughts. Bear in mind that I'm working without the battletome because spending $40-50 on it didn't make sense two months ago, and makes even less sense now

Spoiler: Pure SC

Show

1475/1500 points
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired

Battle Regiment

Commander: Lord Celestant - 160 points (G)
-Master of Magic, Arcane Tome, Flaming Weapon

Troops: Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Artillery: Celestar Ballista -120 points

Subtotal: 700 points

Battle Regiment

Commander: Lord-Ordinator -150 points
-Twin Hammers

Troops: Annihilators -190 points

Gryph-hounds -130 points

Praetors -155 points

Artillery: Celestar Ballista -120 points

Subtotal: 745 points

Malign Sorcery: Dias Arcanum - 30 points

Spoiler: Gotrek+Ballistas

Show

1495/1500 points
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired

Vanguard Battalion

Sub-commander: Lord-Veritant -120 points (G)
-High Priest, Healing

Troops: Gryph-Hounds -130 points

Gotrek Gurnisson -435 points (Mercenary)

Subtotal: 685 points

Hunters of the Heartlands Battalion

Troops: Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Subtotal:420 points

Grand Battery Battalion

Sub-commander: Lord-Ordinator -150 points
-Astral hammers, Arcane Tome, Flaming Weapon

Artillery: Celestar Ballista - 120 points

Celestar Ballista -120 points

Sub-total: 390 points

Spoiler: Gotrek with more Infantry

Show

1490/1500 points
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumph: Inspired

Vanguard Battalion

Subcommander: Lord-Imperatant -160 points (G)
-Battle Lust

Troops: Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Vindictors -140 points (B)

Subtotal: 580 points

Vanguard Battalion

Sub Commander: Lord-Castellant -130 points
-Arcane Tome, Flaming Weapon

Troops: Annihilators -190 points

Praetors -155 points

Gotrek Gurnisson -435 points (Mercenary)

Subtotal:910 points

I'm afraid I'm still very much a novice, (As of yet, I've only played 3 games). I'd rather not purchase anything more until the battletome comes out, but I do have a few other things I picked up that could be used instead

Spoiler: What I have

Show

Heroes: Knight-Arcanum
Knight-Incantor
Knight-Vexillor with Banner of Apotheosis
Lord-Castellant
Lord-Imperitant
Lord-Ordinator
Lord-Veritant
Yndrasta, the Celestial Spear

Battleline: 15 Vindictors in units of 5

Other Units: 6 Aetherwings (Assembling them has been the bane of my existence. I'd rather not have to paint them if I don't have to)
3 Annihilators
3 Castigators
2 Celestar Ballistas
15 Gryph-Hounds
3 Praetors
2 Celestar Ballistas
The Farstriders (Leftover from when I tried Warcry)
6 Vanguard Raptors (3 with Longstrike Crossbows, 3 not fully assembled)

The Stormcast Eternals Endless Spells
Allies: Gotrek Gurnisson

Gotrek + Ballistas is probably the strongest list though you might want to drop the gryph-hounds for 6 aetherwings to MSU and screen with + Celestian Vortex since you don't have 3 more aetherwings.