Age Of Sigmar II: I Can't Believe It's Not Magic!

[Cheesegear]

I quite like the list. How are the Evocators treating you? I kinda like the minis.

As Requizen said, Dracolines are a phenomenally powerful unit, and I like monsters (unfortunately, in 40K, I play Marines, so I don't get the opportunity to field monsters...Ever.)

If I was playing Stormcasts, I'd be running a unit of 6, with a Hero. Not Solbright, but certainly her model, at least. Some people find them underwhemling. It depends on your opponents. Dracolines have a few bad match-ups. And a few good match-ups. So...Yeah. Dracolines, good or bad? Depends what you run 'em at.
(Dracolines are one of those very stupid, or very smart boxes, where if you make the Hero model using the box, you're left with two 'other' models - an illegal unit. In this particular instance, Solbright's model solves this issue, and she's EtB, so she's cheap to buy...Thanks, GW. I suppose. Wake me up when you make cheap Tyranid Alpha Warriors and Dawneagle Captains.)

Unfortunately, I'm playing Cities, so my Stormcast investiture has to be small. A unit of 3, does fine. Especially 'cause I've built my entire army around <Wizards> (the only thing that's missing from my list is a Stardrake ). Considering all the other stuff that I regularly run (especially the Battlemage on Griffon), I've found that my opponent has other things to focus on than the Dracolines, which means they can nicely get stuck into my opponent's weaker units. Obviously there's also the Luminark churning out Mortal Wounds, which my opponents definitely don't like.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Glad you're liking Warcry! At our local, it's one of the more popular games - less time to play than AoS and less cutthroat than Underworlds, makes it great for game night. Personally I like the other two more (I enjoy the complexity of both), but I still love Warcry enough to own all warbands and faction cards.

In fact, given that we're expecting our first kid, Warcry might actually jump above AoS in my hobby focus. Smaller warbands to build and paint, shorter games so I'm not out as much, and easy to play at home on the table or floor makes it much more viable than full AoS. I'm planning on going full hog and making a warband for each faction that has cards, which will be a great hobby goal and also a pretty light one overall.

Another congratulations!

Which is your favorite Warband? Do you find that the AoS factions are balanced? It seems to me that players coming in would have more options for customization of a warband than one of the starter kits, and might make it easier to create a min-maxed list. What has been your experience playing with or against those factions?

One of the barriers of entry to Underworlds is that I'm not sure at any time what box and books I actually need to play it. Can I build a warband with my old lizardmen models, or would I have to buy one of the new warbands that have come out?

[Ornithologist]

One of the barriers of entry to Underworlds is that I'm not sure at any time what box and books I actually need to play it. Can I build a warband with my old lizardmen models, or would I have to buy one of the new warbands that have come out?

With Underworlds, you will need to grab a pre-made warband. The deck lists are customizable, the models themselves are not. Unless you are playing with some who already has it, you will have to pick up one of the large starter boxes. You will need the game boards to play on, and there are some good cards in there for you to mix in match with. You will also need the special dice, but you can pick them up separately if you done need the whole box otherwise.

Luckily the warbands come with enough cards to play with. If you have access to other players with dice and boards, then they are really all you need to play. They can also be used in AOS proper, though my understanding is that they range from meh, its okay to trash.

The real min-maxers will be buying every release so they can have the full card pool to choose from, but that way lies madness.

[Cheesegear]

The real min-maxers will be buying every release so they can have the full card pool to choose from, but that way lies madness misery.

Fixed that for you. It's why I quit Underworlds...And X-Wing.

[PraetorDragoon]

As Requizen said, Dracolines are a phenomenally powerful unit, and I like monsters (unfortunately, in 40K, I play Marines, so I don't get the opportunity to field monsters...Ever.)

If I was playing Stormcasts, I'd be running a unit of 6, with a Hero. Not Solbright, but certainly her model, at least. Some people find them underwhemling. It depends on your opponents. Dracolines have a few bad match-ups. And a few good match-ups. So...Yeah. Dracolines, good or bad? Depends what you run 'em at.
(Dracolines are one of those very stupid, or very smart boxes, where if you make the Hero model using the box, you're left with two 'other' models - an illegal unit. In this particular instance, Solbright's model solves this issue, and she's EtB, so she's cheap to buy...Thanks, GW. I suppose. Wake me up when you make cheap Tyranid Alpha Warriors and Dawneagle Captains.)

Unfortunately, I'm playing Cities, so my Stormcast investiture has to be small. A unit of 3, does fine. Especially 'cause I've built my entire army around <Wizards> (the only thing that's missing from my list is a Stardrake ). Considering all the other stuff that I regularly run (especially the Battlemage on Griffon), I've found that my opponent has other things to focus on than the Dracolines, which means they can nicely get stuck into my opponent's weaker units. Obviously there's also the Luminark churning out Mortal Wounds, which my opponents definitely don't like.

Alright, so a decent unit whose usefuless depends on the matchup and the rest of the list. I can work with that. I was planning to run them in a cities list as well.

[Requizen]

Another congratulations!

Which is your favorite Warband? Do you find that the AoS factions are balanced? It seems to me that players coming in would have more options for customization of a warband than one of the starter kits, and might make it easier to create a min-maxed list. What has been your experience playing with or against those factions?

One of the barriers of entry to Underworlds is that I'm not sure at any time what box and books I actually need to play it. Can I build a warband with my old lizardmen models, or would I have to buy one of the new warbands that have come out?

Of the Warcry original warbands, I'm quite partial to the Corvus Cabal and the Cypher Lords.

AoS Warbands tend to be a bit stronger, partially for the reasons you say, partially because they often have better options. Most are fairly balanced, but some (notably FEC, Gloomspite, and recently people have been saying Sylvaneth) have a very high power curve. That said, depending on mission, there's no warbands that feel like they can't play the game, so play what you like imo. I've won with Cabal against "OP" factions, the game is heavily more about positioning and activation play than netlisting (though it's also a very dicey game).

With Underworlds, you will need to grab a pre-made warband. The deck lists are customizable, the models themselves are not. Unless you are playing with some who already has it, you will have to pick up one of the large starter boxes. You will need the game boards to play on, and there are some good cards in there for you to mix in match with. You will also need the special dice, but you can pick them up separately if you done need the whole box otherwise.

Luckily the warbands come with enough cards to play with. If you have access to other players with dice and boards, then they are really all you need to play. They can also be used in AOS proper, though my understanding is that they range from meh, its okay to trash.

The real min-maxers will be buying every release so they can have the full card pool to choose from, but that way lies madness.

Yes, Underworlds is its own beast and kind of requires you to commit to it. A starter box and one or two warbands will give you enough to have a nice, varied experience, and enough tools to play with multiple people. It's probably the best designed game GW has made from a gameplay experience in my opinion.

To get fully into it is expensive and ongoing, though. I think the game is good, balanced, and fun enough to be worth following...

Fixed that for you. It's why I quit Underworlds...And X-Wing.

...but clearly it's not for everyone :P

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

I'm not sure what support there is for Undworlds in my local shop, but our non-wargame friends were very interested in Warcry - the guy who was playing my Splintered Fang ended up going home and buying a learn to paint kit. There are Monday-night Warcry matches and I might check them out!

Your assessment that Warcry is mostly about positioning I have found to be accurate - but I do think the slower warbands are put at a bit of a disadvantage. That said... there was that moment where my Shadow Piercer, who was carrying the treasure, was tarpitted by the Ogor Breacher. I had to burn two doubles to make my escape. So the slower warbands definitely have some abilities that help them get where they need to be.

[Requizen]

I'm not sure what support there is for Undworlds in my local shop, but our non-wargame friends were very interested in Warcry - the guy who was playing my Splintered Fang ended up going home and buying a learn to paint kit. There are Monday-night Warcry matches and I might check them out!

Your assessment that Warcry is mostly about positioning I have found to be accurate - but I do think the slower warbands are put at a bit of a disadvantage. That said... there was that moment where my Shadow Piercer, who was carrying the treasure, was tarpitted by the Ogor Breacher. I had to burn two doubles to make my escape. So the slower warbands definitely have some abilities that help them get where they need to be.

Yeah, in a positional game, mobility is obviously key. Slow, beatstick warbands tend to perform better in missions that are about specific points on the field that you can just pile on, but a lot of missions involve picking up objectives, or marking one fighter, or getting across the board.

Matched Play missions have less silly/crazy missions, but the warbands with only move 3" dudes can suffer a bit.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Matched play is just those generated by the Victory cards, yes?

So one of the friends that played in the Triumph and Treachery game (Splintered Fang friend) just bought his first warband - the Nighthaunts. He bought the starter kit and three Spirit Hosts, which should put him in the position of having a lot of flexibility with his lists, more so than those of us using the Warcry-specific factions. It will be nice to have some variety - but there is a part of me that doesn't quite feel like AoS factions really need to be in Warcry. It would kind of be like Space Marines showing up in Necromunda.

Perhaps the better analogy is to compare Warcry to Kill Team? But then why make any custom factions at all? Ah well. Let's see what playing against spooky ghosts is like. I'm excited to be getting more friends into wargaming!

[Cheesegear]

It will be nice to have some variety - but there is a part of me that doesn't quite feel like AoS factions really need to be in Warcry.

They absolutely don't, and in most cases, the other Factions actually ruin WarCry.

But:
a) New Factions, and GW doesn't even have to make new models, and
b) More people can get into WarCry without buying 'exclusive' models they can't use in any other game.

[LeSwordfish]

Warcry has a strong narrative underpinning but its sensible enough to go "sure, there can be seraphon here too, why not? fun for everyone!"

[Destro_Yersul]

They absolutely don't, and in most cases, the other Factions actually ruin WarCry.

But:
a) New Factions, and GW doesn't even have to make new models, and
b) More people can get into WarCry without buying 'exclusive' models they can't use in any other game.

To be fair, apparently all the Warcry warbands fit into the new Slaves to Darkness book.

[Cheesegear]

To be fair, apparently all the Warcry warbands fit into the new Slaves to Darkness book.

Correct. That's all well and good. But what if you don't play and/or don't want to play Slaves to Darkness?

But saying that is like saying you can use Necromunda models as Guardsmen and/or Cultists (on 32mm bases 'cause you hate yourself). That's fine. But what if, say, you play Necrons? How does that help?
That's where Kill Team comes in.

That's at least something Underworlds does correctly. Every Warband fits in their respective Faction. If the Warband in AoS sucks, just sub the Warband models in for real models, it's still the same Faction, and it's still more-or-less the same models.

[Requizen]

Matched play is just those generated by the Victory cards, yes

There's a specific Matched Play section in the rulebook, with 12 Mission + Deployment setups. It uses specific missions and deployments that are symmetrical, rather than extremely one-sided "narrative" ones. You still draw for terrain and twist cards, but you can remove the terrain cards that don't have the "Symmertrical" runemark for even further balance.

So one of the friends that played in the Triumph and Treachery game (Splintered Fang friend) just bought his first warband - the Nighthaunts. He bought the starter kit and three Spirit Hosts, which should put him in the position of having a lot of flexibility with his lists, more so than those of us using the Warcry-specific factions. It will be nice to have some variety - but there is a part of me that doesn't quite feel like AoS factions really need to be in Warcry. It would kind of be like Space Marines showing up in Necromunda.

Perhaps the better analogy is to compare Warcry to Kill Team? But then why make any custom factions at all? Ah well. Let's see what playing against spooky ghosts is like. I'm excited to be getting more friends into wargaming!

Warcry Core is Necromunda. Warcry + AoS warbands + M&M is Kill Team.
...kinda.

It's Necromunda in that it's a distinct system that doesn't play like AoS, and has a unique aesthetic that fits in the universe but is still its own thing.

It's Kill Team in that, like Cheese said, it's a game that lets you use your "big army" minis in a smaller game, or an excuse to get minis you wouldn't buy for a full army but you want (definitely not me, no sir).

From a business side of things, it's bait to trap people into buying a full army, and also more purchases from people that already play AoS. From a design side of things, it's a way to get more mileage out of your minis and get some gameplay variety.


I don't find much issue in having the cultists alongside the "main army" factions. It's thematic for the setting in my mind. Unmade are from Shyish, so the chances that their Chaos-worshipping cult came into a clash with servants of Nagash trying to drive the Chaos Gods from their lands is pretty likely. Stormcast seem out of scale and place comparatively, but in many books there have been small teams of Stormcast doing exactly this type of stuff, and imo the gap between Humans :: Stormcast is not as drastic as Guardsman :: Space Marine.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

There's a specific Matched Play section in the rulebook, with 12 Mission + Deployment setups. It uses specific missions and deployments that are symmetrical, rather than extremely one-sided "narrative" ones. You still draw for terrain and twist cards, but you can remove the terrain cards that don't have the "Symmertrical" runemark for even further balance.

Ah, gotcha. I lent my Rulebook out and didn't have it on hand. That'll probably make a big difference!

Warcry Core is Necromunda. Warcry + AoS warbands + M&M is Kill Team.
...kinda.

It's Necromunda in that it's a distinct system that doesn't play like AoS, and has a unique aesthetic that fits in the universe but is still its own thing.

It's Kill Team in that, like Cheese said, it's a game that lets you use your "big army" minis in a smaller game, or an excuse to get minis you wouldn't buy for a full army but you want (definitely not me, no sir).

From a business side of things, it's bait to trap people into buying a full army, and also more purchases from people that already play AoS. From a design side of things, it's a way to get more mileage out of your minis and get some gameplay variety.


I don't find much issue in having the cultists alongside the "main army" factions. It's thematic for the setting in my mind. Unmade are from Shyish, so the chances that their Chaos-worshipping cult came into a clash with servants of Nagash trying to drive the Chaos Gods from their lands is pretty likely. Stormcast seem out of scale and place comparatively, but in many books there have been small teams of Stormcast doing exactly this type of stuff, and imo the gap between Humans :: Stormcast is not as drastic as Guardsman :: Space Marine.

Everything that's been said makes sense. Very reasonable humans all around. I think for me I'm reacting negatively because I'm still softly skeptical of AoS as a setting, and reading through the rulebook I was excited to have a concrete setting to develop in the Ravaged Lands. There were swamps, mountain ranges, little hidey holes for each of the warbands, oh joy! Kind of like the Underhive, I wanted a little grittier, more grounded approach that developed civilian life a little bit - the Cypher Lords are a great example, giving us a hint at a dark mirror of high society in the realm of life, or the Splintered Fang's distorted martial tradition.

But the Mortal Realms are the setting of AoS, and Warhammer Fantasy has always had a more fluid meeting of the races than 40k, so this is hardly new. I just liked the new warbands because they were different, and the quality of the sculpts was fantastic - always in motion, very dynamic.

Anyway, I'm not really saying anything that hasn't already been said. As far as the game itself, we've all had a lot of fun playing it. I'm a bit wary of the Nighthaunts joining the fray, given that they all can ignore terrain (makes sense, ghosts, but I was hoping they might have to burn a double to do it or something - nope, just give them fly) and their quad is brutal (deal damage equal to this ability to all enemy fighters within 3"). We'll probably schedule a game for sometime next week. Excited to report back.

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-4/




Yay more Underworlds! I like these a lot more than the Ironjawz personally, if nothing else than that they're more varied models. I always feel like Orruks end up all looking the same, at least here you have 4 distinct units represented. And that Hag Queen is amazing looking.

I don't really have much to say about the Pointy Aelves. I like the classic aesthetic, but I won't be buying them at this time for a variety of reasons (unless they get a Warcry Warband, naturally). The triple bowstrings look a little silly (and a headache to paint), but the Heroes are cool imo.

[Destro_Yersul]

Yeah, those are some nice minis. I kinda want them just to paint, but I have so many other things.

[9mm]

I feel sorry for whoever is learning to magnetize the first time building that new Aelf caster though. Jeebus, GW I've nearly had to pin down the Bladeghiests I'm currently making.

[Artemis97]

The Mountain Mage, all balanced on her rock? Beautiful model, but looks like a pain to put together.

Those daughters of Khaine models look good. I kind of like the bald one with the mask and the whip. She looks especially blood thirsty. I love how voluminous the others' hair is too.

[PraetorDragoon]

The mountain mage looks like it will fall over if you look at it funnily.

I do like the DoK band. It looks nice.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

Well I just stocked up on some provisions for the next two weeks of social distancing, by which I mean I just bought myself the new Seraphon Battletome, the Realmgate Engine, and the Skink box. Not entirely sure how soon I'll get to them, because I've still got to finish painting my Warcry warbands, but I'm happy to have something to rotate to and from - between Warcry, Chaos Marines, and Seraphon, I hope I'll be able to keep myself from getting burnt out on any particular color.

I think I can safely put Blackstone Fortress on hold, anyway - my gaming group has switched to online platforms.

[NeoVid]

Random lore question I've had since learning the basics of Age of Sigmar: The Great Horned Rat has become a widely known god, considered one of the Chaos pantheon, right? Does he have any non-Skaven followers these days? The rest of Chaos works hard to get their claws/tentacles/pseudopods into anyone vulnerable to their temptations, and now that the GHR's no secret, there have to be some cultists crazy enough to be interested in what he has to offer... whatever that is.

And a related question I hadn't thought of until now, are there any Skaven breakaways from the GHR? I've never seen the attraction of serving the GHR, even for the Skaven, they just didn't have any other option in the old version of the setting. I can honestly see the Skaven being better off serving Tzeench or Nurgle.

I do like the DoK band. It looks nice.

Yknow, when I first saw DoK, my thought was "Daughters of Khorne" which... would be a freaking amazing idea for a minor faction. Now I'm a bit disappointed we don't have one like that.

[PraetorDragoon]

While I haven't heard of anything official regarding non-skaven Great Horned Rat followers, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to have some human/elf/dwarf worshippers somewhere in the realms. Remember that the vast majority of Chaos worshippers are like the warcry tribes, who don't worship a specific god or aspect, but are more worshippers in general or followers of a local powerful daemon. And some might not even be really aware they worship chaos.

Skaven are cowards, and the Great Horned Rat terrifies them. Therefore they follow him, and he uses his Grey Seers/Verminlords to enforce "loyality".

[Fyraltari]

Random lore question I've had since learning the basics of Age of Sigmar: The Great Horned Rat has become a widely known god, considered one of the Chaos pantheon, right? Does he have any non-Skaven followers these days? The rest of Chaos works hard to get their claws/tentacles/pseudopods into anyone vulnerable to their temptations, and now that the GHR's no secret, there have to be some cultists crazy enough to be interested in what he has to offer... whatever that is.

And a related question I hadn't thought of until now, are there any Skaven breakaways from the GHR? I've never seen the attraction of serving the GHR, even for the Skaven, they just didn't have any other option in the old version of the setting. I can honestly see the Skaven being better off serving Tzeench or Nurgle.

The Horned Rat used to have human followers in the world-that-was, at least. And I think, some Pestilens skaven worship Papa Nurgle instead of the Great Horned Rat, but I'm not sure.

[Requizen]

Hm, AFAIK there aren't currently any mortal Great Horned Rat followers, but that's not indicative of the lore, so there realistically could be. On the other hand, given that Skaven can't ally with anything in Chaos at all, it seems at least very uncommon.

Though do keep in mind that most mortals, including those that are actually "chaos worshippers" don't know about the gods at all. Warcry makes a point that the warbands don't know the Chaos Gods by name, but more worship their aspects. Likely there are some mortals that worship the idea of cowardice, pestilence, and/or underhandedness, which is somewhat split between Nurgle/Tzeentch and GHR.

Well I just stocked up on some provisions for the next two weeks of social distancing, by which I mean I just bought myself the new Seraphon Battletome, the Realmgate Engine, and the Skink box. Not entirely sure how soon I'll get to them, because I've still got to finish painting my Warcry warbands, but I'm happy to have something to rotate to and from - between Warcry, Chaos Marines, and Seraphon, I hope I'll be able to keep myself from getting burnt out on any particular color.

I think I can safely put Blackstone Fortress on hold, anyway - my gaming group has switched to online platforms.

I got myself a Necromancer and Grave Guard to go with my Sepulchral Guard, easy start Legions of Nagash Warband. Also won some basic Ogors, which can go with Hrothgorn for a reasonable Mawtribes Warband. Should have plenty to build and paint, but since I'm work from home anyways, it's not like I'll have much extra time

[PraetorDragoon]

The Horned Rat used to have human followers in the world-that-was, at least. And I think, some Pestilens skaven worship Papa Nurgle instead of the Great Horned Rat, but I'm not sure.

Pestilens still worship The Great Horned Rat, they just find common ground in filthy diseases. Nurgle is more about the cycle of life and rebirth, while Pestilens are using disease to kill everyone. A small detail.

Its why Pestilens can ally in some Nurgle.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

I got myself a Necromancer and Grave Guard to go with my Sepulchral Guard, easy start Legions of Nagash Warband. Also won some basic Ogors, which can go with Hrothgorn for a reasonable Mawtribes Warband. Should have plenty to build and paint, but since I'm work from home anyways, it's not like I'll have much extra time

Nice! Sound like some fun hobby projects. Post pictures if you get a chance!

I broke quarantine yesterday for a few games of Warcry with a friend. He ended up going with Nighthaunt for his warband, which suits his tastes in baddies pretty well. I brought Splintered Fang. We each won a game - his win was a game of keep-away, and mine was on objective control. We weren't able to try out the matched play missions from the core book because I had lent it to another friend, and it'll probably be a while before I get it back! So again the wins played the strengths of the particular warband. But we had fun. Warcry goes so fast that no loss is particularly crushing, and we tried different warband rosters each time. Despite losing with it the first time around, my preferred list was 3 x Serpent Bases, 1 x Serpent Caller, 1 x Trueblood, 2 x Venomblood with Shield and Spear, 3 x Clearblood with shield, 1000 pts exactly.

Nighthaunt has excellent mobility, all of them have Fly to ignore terrain and they have at least a 5 inch movement. But their main strength is their toughness, which is usually 5 or higher. That said, they have low strength and, except for my serpents, all of my units had toughness 4 or higher. That meant both of us were hitting on 5s - except that SF universal ability is to hit on 3s. This really tipped the balance in my favor, especially when we were scrapping it out over the objectives. Having multiple serpent bases is nasty, throwing five die that wound on 3s. I suppose they were using their special ghost venom, which is venom that they use for ghosts.

[Cheesegear]

So, with my FLGS kicking everyone out, looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time at home, and not playing games.

My hobby projects:
War Hydra; I'm thinking purple scales with pink underbelly. Or I could just do dark purple and brighter purple, maybe that's better.

Ogre Tyrant

Commission Projects:
Mollag

Fomoroid Crusher

I broke quarantine yesterday...

You broke quarantine?
...Or you broke isolation distancing?

[Eldan]

He probably means distancing. As far as I know, Americans aren't under enforced quarantine yet.

[PraetorDragoon]

So, with my FLGS kicking everyone out, looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of time at home, and not playing games.

My hobby projects:
War Hydra; I'm thinking purple scales with pink underbelly. Or I could just do dark purple and brighter purple, maybe that's better.

Ogre Tyrant

Commission Projects:
Mollag

Fomoroid Crusher

How is the Fomoroid Crusher? I do like the looks of that fellow.