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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Specifically, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
    The game where getting a cut means death by infection, the doctor also being a barber as well, and the only party member who can read are lawyers, wizard, and merchants.
    At least before the entire world got blown up to make way for gold-plated warriors, but Cubicle 7 brought it back.
    But this is not about WHFB, but rather OOTS Cast and setting if they were in Warhammer Fantasy.
    First thing is that Durkon and V would have trust issues since Warhammer's Dwarves and Elves hated each other after a century-long war over Dwarven Diplomats' beards being shaved by a High-Elf king who is too arrogant to tell that the "High Elf" who raided their caravans were their Dark-Elves enemies.
    Either Durkon should be Slayer (being exiled and forced to redeem through a death battle) or Dwarven Runesmith.
    V can be a wizard (not explodey human one).
    Belkar might fit well (Gluttony and being unsympathetic), excluding the psychopathic part.
    Roy, Elan, and Haley, not sure.
    I kinda see Redcloak as a Skaven Greyseer, and Xykon as Vampire Lord (the closest thing to Lich are Tomb Kings but they mostly live in their own domain).
    Any feedback or input?
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    I'm not familiar with Fantasy, but if we're talking 40k, I think Belkar would make a very enthused commisar

    Yeah, sorry, that's about all I can offer on the topic
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Tomb Kings are closer to mummies than liches. Liches in Warhammer are basically undead necromancers. In 4e Necromancers and Liches were separate (Liches were undead, necromancers were alive).

    By 7e, all Necromancers had the Undead keyword.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    By 7e, all Necromancers had the Undead keyword.
    I choose to believe this means Warhammer is running on AOL's framework.

    If you don't get the joke, just be happy with your youth
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    If OOTS was in Warhammer, they would be unbalanced in all the ways.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2019-11-26 at 07:37 AM.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    First thing is that Durkon and V would have trust issues since Warhammer's Dwarves and Elves hated each other after a century-long war over Dwarven Diplomats' beards being shaved by a High-Elf king who is too arrogant to tell that the "High Elf" who raided their caravans were their Dark-Elves enemies.
    The grudge agains the Elves is rather longer standing than that. The Dwarfs blame the Elves and their magic for the continent-wracking earthquake that shattered their underground empire and left all their cities cut off from each other.

    (The Elves didn't do it, of course, it was the Lizardmen, and they didn't do it on purpose they did it because they're a bit broken and are trying to follow instructions they don't understand)

    Either Durkon should be Slayer (being exiled and forced to redeem through a death battle) or Dwarven Runesmith.
    Rune Priest. Although everything would be different for him because Dwarfs are extremely nonmagical. Although every Dwarf in OOTS has basically taken a watered down Slayer Oath*, he couldn't act much like a Slayer and still fulfil anything like the function he does in the story.

    Belkar might fit well (Gluttony and being unsympathetic), excluding the psychopathic part.
    Well, WHF halflings were the prototype for ogres....

    I kinda see Redcloak as a Skaven Greyseer,
    Nah, he can still be a gobbo, he's cunning and backstabby enough. Night Goblin Shaman.



    * The Slayer Oath is the serious business version of how Stickverse Dwarfs work, seeking death in battle in order to expunge dishonour, but there aren't any loopholes, you've got to try your best in every battle against some great enemy of the Dawi (Trolls, Giants, Daemons). Slayers who turn out to be very good at trying their hardest tend to go a bit mad as fewer and fewer things are able to grant them a sufficiently glorious end.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2019-11-26 at 07:39 AM.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    I'd get a lot less of the Jokes/References.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The grudge agains the Elves is rather longer standing than that. The Dwarfs blame the Elves and their magic for the continent-wracking earthquake that shattered their underground empire and left all their cities cut off from each other.

    (The Elves didn't do it, of course, it was the Lizardmen, and they didn't do it on purpose they did it because they're a bit broken and are trying to follow instructions they don't understand)
    Yeah, but that wasn't enough to completely cut ties with them. The War of the Beard was a grudge powerful enough that it made the dwarfs force the elves off the entire continent (except for those in Athel Loren that would become wood elves later, which the dwarfs still attempt to wipe out).

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I'd get a lot less of the Jokes/References.
    For what it's worth, the Treeslayers mentionned on this page are almost certainly a Slayer Dwarf reference.
    Last edited by Resileaf; 2019-11-26 at 01:10 PM.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    If OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy, would it get all grimdark and stuff?
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    The grudge agains the Elves is rather longer standing than that. The Dwarfs blame the Elves and their magic for the continent-wracking earthquake that shattered their underground empire and left all their cities cut off from each other.

    (The Elves didn't do it, of course, it was the Lizardmen, and they didn't do it on purpose they did it because they're a bit broken and are trying to follow instructions they don't understand)
    I honestly don't remember the Dwarves blaming the Elves for that at all. It might have been in something I haven't read... but I've read most of it (up to the End Times, anyway). Didn't the trashing of the Dwarf empire happen after the War of the Beard, though?

    While the Slann involvement was later retconned in (albeit the first-gen Slann, who did know what they were doing) in 4th edition it was blamed on the Skaven. They built a machine to create tunnels to help them expand out of Skavenblight, and, being Skaven, it succeeded more catastrophically than they could possibly have imagined, fracturing the continent, crippling the Dwarfs, adn nearly wiping out the Skaven themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    Yeah, but that wasn't enough to completely cut ties with them. The War of the Beard was a grudge powerful enough that it made the dwarfs force the elves off the entire continent (except for those in Athel Loren that would become wood elves later, which the dwarfs still attempt to wipe out).
    Something that I thought was a missed opportunity fluffwise was Dwarf response to, and indeed even involvement in, the wars of the Sundering. Malekith was one of the very few elves who had a genuinely good relationship with dwarfs on a personal level, and was virtually singlehandedly responsible for (re-)establishing diplomatic relations between the peoples at all.

    One wonders what would have happened had he called on the dwarfs for help (obviously, being a bit selective about the details) during the civil war. They couldn't have done much about Ulthuan, but they could have tied down the Old World colonies sufficiently to free up Naggarothi troops for the main campaign. And one would imagine that even if they weren't involved in the war itself, the Dwarfs wouldn't be thrilled to learn afterwards that their best friend at the Phoenix Court has been exiled in what amounted to an internal political struggle. The idea of Dwarf ambassadors pitching up at Naggarond with only half the story to deliver fruit baskets to Malekith was a definite missed opportunity, imo.

    Obviously Malekith kind of crossed the moral event horizon in that war anyway, and the Dwarfs wouldn't have stood for that if they'd known... but there was mileage in their not knowing, which was never used.
    Last edited by Aedilred; 2019-11-28 at 03:35 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Roy I can see as a pretty standard Soldier > Sergeant > Captain.

    Haley is actually a little harder, as most WFRP thief types aren't combat masters. Still you could probably run with Thief > Cat Burglar > Master Thief. Just don't expect her to be as deadly with a bow.

    V is... weirdly one of the easier fits: Apprentice Wizard > Journeyman Wizard > Master Wizard. (S)he would be more specialised and less powerful and face more prejudice but V's icy aloofness does work rather well with WRP Elves.

    Belkar is the first character who is a bit problematic. Halflings in Warhammer are much weaker hand to hand combatants than humans - even if Belkar rolled the maximum for his Weapon Skill and Strength he would still only be as capable in hand to hand as an average human (they have compensation in being better with missile weapons but Belkar isn't exactly an archer.) There isn't an obvious way around this so while you could 'build' Belkar, maybe as a Woodsman > Scout > Vampire Hunter he'd be swinging below his weight.

    Elan, like Haley would probably have to choose between being skilled at non-combat skills or capability with a weapon (his magical abilities aren't really possible short of actually making him a Wizard.)

    Durkon basically has to be completely reworked - even a Runesmith isn't quite the same thing as a cleric and obviously Thor isn't around in the Old WOrld.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    Durkon basically has to be completely reworked - even a Runesmith isn't quite the same thing as a cleric and obviously Thor isn't around in the Old WOrld.
    There is Runepriest, or a Slayer since he is basically exiled.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Dwarf priests generally don't wield magic in Warhammer in the same way as D&D clerics. Runes are more magic items.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    There is Runepriest, or a Slayer since he is basically exiled.
    Slayer isn't appropriate for Durkon. He's in exile (though not all Slayers are) but he hasn't been dishonoured, he hasn't renounced his former identity, and he doesn't have a deathwish.

    In any event, and in WFRP2 at least, Dwarfs aren't prohibited from entering the Initiate -> Priest -> Anointed Priest career path, so that would presumably be the one for him. Though you would still need to find him a new divine patron.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    If OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy, would it get all grimdark and stuff?
    Yes. Both Warhammer settings are very much designed with peace being utterly unimpossible.

    Varsuuvius would have irrevocably lost zir soul with zir faustian bargain.

    Miko would have replaced Shojo as ruler and use the state as a tool of her insane/righteous fury.

    Redcloak wouldn't work as a character at all (IMHO). The ambiguity and deconstruction his character is built around doesn't exist in the setting. Goblins aren't "usually" evil and don't want a fair world where people get along.

    Xykon is fine.

    Belkar would fit a little too well for the character to work. Being a sociopath on the right side is a pretty well as a necessary evil there.

    Roy would be like Celia, in that there sensibilities strongly and constantly clash with how the world turns. People might suspect he's some kind of traitor for doing things like talking to orcs when he could kill them.

    Tarquin would have a sound utilitarian argument in favor of what he's doing. Destroying the vector legion might result in every human in their empires being killed/enslaved/dispossessed.

    Dwarfs are... when you run the numbers, OOTS dwarfs are actually crazier than Warhammer dwarfs. OOTS dwarfs in peacetime are subject to more violence than any human civilization ever that couldn't be described as "rapidly collapsing".

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizatzhaderac View Post
    Dwarfs are... when you run the numbers, OOTS dwarfs are actually crazier than Warhammer dwarfs. OOTS dwarfs in peacetime are subject to more violence than any human civilization ever that couldn't be described as "rapidly collapsing".
    I'd say the main difference is that OOTS dwarves are actually winning their wars and their civilization is on the rise, while Warhammer Dwarfs are fighting a losing war where they are doomed to slowly lose their lands until none of them are left.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Okay, let's see. I'm basing this only somewhat on the WHFB-roleplaying game (which I have played a couple or a few times) and more on the general lore and the miniature game (both of which I know very well).

    First the OotS. Do note that I'm assuming none of them started as a Ratcatcher (an actual profession/class in the rpg) or has only one starting profession. Instead, they would be one of the greatest heroes in the setting, the equal of many named Special Characters, who are mentioned in the history of the Warhammer World and who have the coolest miniatures. Even in the real OotS-comic, the heroes started as near 10th level characters, who are no average Joes or Joettes.

    - Roy: A highly experienced human infantry warrior/soldier who fights with a great sword, a classic fighting style in the setting. Most likely from Tilea or Estalia since he's a roaming mercenary and not a soldier from a standing imperial state army who has a salary and only defends a single city or a part of a province.

    - Elan is tricky: There are no magical bards in the setting that I know of. Although... he could be just a mundane bard who is a decent and improving rapier-fighter... and a hedge wizard! These are people who study magic on their own and know minor but useful spells. Many go over their depth and find horrible fates but it's not impossible for a hedge wizard to keep it all together. They are also known to be... rather eccentric. A long campaign of Mordheim might produce a similar hero out of a particularly lucky character.

    - Haley is easy to assemble: There are master thieves in the Warhammer lore and master archers too. A Special Character-level... character could be both. There are even thieves' guilds, most notably centered around the minor human deity of thieves, Ranald.

    - Vaarsuvius is a high elf mage with an ambiguous gender. Someone mentioned that s/he would be more limited in what s/he could do but maybe not so much: while human wizards can only master a single Wind of Magic, elven wizards, especially the high elves can indeed master multiple Winds of Magic. Vaarsuvius would probably know how to use Fire, Metal, Heavens, Shadow and Light. Beasts, Life and Death would be right out. Though s/he might have to change the Wind s/he uses each day? And of course, Vaarsuvius and Durkon wouldn't get along as well as they do in OotS.

    - Belkar is kind of hard: while there are master dagger-fighters, half-decent rangers, psychos and halflings, putting them all together would result in the most original Warhammer character ever. Then again, in Special Character-level that's not impossible, though he'd have to win the Stat Rolling-lottery *and* still have to fight smarter and more stealthily than he does in the OotS-comic. While the halflings in the setting are usually docile (yes, even though it's a dark fantasy-setting), there are still enough mercenary halflings that they have had unit entries in multiple editions of the game. Though they can only win melee fights against skinks, gnoblars and unusually small units of zombies and even then it's a coin toss.

    - Durkon would be changed the most. While D&D dwarves and Warhammer dwarfs (yes, this is the actual spelling) are as similar as all fantasy dwarves, the dwarfs don't have wizards who can cast spells. While there are priests with supernatural healing powers (and more!) in the setting, the dwarfs don't have those either. Instead they have Runesmiths. Long story short, this would mean Durkon could make magic items, dispel enemy spells and fight in melee. For a good measure, I would also make him an engineer, so that he could do the occasional flashy bursts of power that he sometimes does in comics.

    Villains are more straightforward.
    - Xykon is a lich. Warhammer has liches. While most liches can be found in the land of Khemri (undead fantasy Egypt), some rare necromancers can become liches too. Xykon would probably have to be centuries old, though.
    - Red Cloak would have be a goblin shaman. Who is more clever and cunning than Skarsnik and more ambitious and daring than Grom.
    - Tarquin would be a mercenary general who somehow managed to carve a stable kingdom in the land of the Border Princes or some other lawless place.
    Last edited by Raimun; 2019-12-09 at 05:03 AM.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    - Durkon would be changed the most. While D&D dwarves and Warhammer dwarfs (yes, this is the actual spelling) are as similar as all fantasy dwarves, the dwarfs don't have wizards who can cast spells. While there are priests with supernatural healing powers (and more!) in the setting, the dwarfs don't have those either. Instead they have Runesmiths. Long story short, this would mean Durkon could make magic items, dispel enemy spells and fight in melee. For a good measure, I would also make him an engineer, so that he could do the occasional flashy bursts of power that he sometimes does in comics.
    Or if race has to be changed, maybe a Sigmarite priest.
    They can do (few) spells, but mostly involving hitting people with hammers.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    Or if race has to be changed, maybe a Sigmarite priest.
    They can do (few) spells, but mostly involving hitting people with hammers.
    Thing is, being a dwarf is a major part of Durkon's character and his story arc. Durkon's story is about what it's like to be a fantasy dwarf.

    And Sigmarite priests are all human. Otherwise it would be a good match. They can heal people with supernatural powers (they are not spells, since there's no risk to miscast, open a portal to realm of chaos and die horribly when using the power) and also do "buffs". Rare Sigmarites can also use the power of Sigmar for mighty bursts of power, like Magnus the Pious, Karl Franz and Luthor Huss have done, which typically grants them a fraction of Sigmar's power and turns them briefly into superhumans. It's kind of like Warhamemer's version of Super Saiyans.
    Last edited by Raimun; 2019-12-05 at 06:00 AM.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Depending on the edition, or exact game, V could be the healer of the party.

    WH has lower magic than D&D, and that would impact a lot of the plot.
    Dragons in WH don't cast spells, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by RossN View Post
    Belkar is the first character who is a bit problematic. Halflings in Warhammer are much weaker hand to hand combatants than humans - even if Belkar rolled the maximum for his Weapon Skill and Strength he would still only be as capable in hand to hand as an average human (they have compensation in being better with missile weapons but Belkar isn't exactly an archer.) There isn't an obvious way around this so while you could 'build' Belkar, maybe as a Woodsman > Scout > Vampire Hunter he'd be swinging below his weight.
    Belkar should already be weaker than he is anyway. His build is heavily unoptimized by 3.5 standards, even in SRD, and he performs to be that good at fighting only because of Rules of Cool and Plot Armor.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    Thing is, being a dwarf is a major part of Durkon's character and his story arc. Durkon's story is about what it's like to be a fantasy dwarf.

    And Sigmarite priests are all human. Otherwise it would be a good match. They can heal people with supernatural powers (they are not spells, since there's no risk to miscast, open a portal to realm of chaos and die horribly when using the power) and also do "buffs". Rare Sigmarites can also use the power of Sigmar for mighty bursts of power, like Magnus the Pious, Karl Franz and Luthor Huss have done, which typically grants them a fraction of Sigmar's power and turns them briefly into superhumans. It's kind of like Warhamemer's version of Super Saiyans.
    This is why I said if "race" can be changed.
    As in Durkon as "Human Sigmarite Warrior Priest".
    But point taken.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Depending on the edition, or exact game, V could be the healer of the party.

    WH has lower magic than D&D, and that would impact a lot of the plot.
    Dragons in WH don't cast spells, for instance.
    The magic in Warhammer is different but not necessarily less powerful. Wizards with Caster Level 4 (a miniature game term) are able cast spells that can alter a battle between armies: that's the equivalent of high level D&D-magic. Heck, even a Caster Level 1 wizard can do that but with greater difficulty.

    Sure, the wizards in the miniature game typically "only" know one to four spells but the rulebooks mention that these are the powerful spells that can alter a battle of armies. They know lesser spells too but they are worthless against, for example, marching infantry units.

    The real weakness in Warhammer-magic is that it's way more fickle than D&D-magic. All spells are powered by Winds of Magic and if they are blowing weakly at the moment, even an archmage has difficulty casting spells. Also, all spell casting relying on this power has the risk of horrible backlashes, where the wizard might lose power (temporarily or permanently), get himself and/or anyone nearby killed or worse.

    Also? Some of the older Warhammer-dragons are able to cast spells. I've read rules and lore where they could do just that. Dragons are an intelligent species in Warhammer and highly magical to begin with so some of them can learn spells. However, not all of the dragons can learn spells... or won't? If you can live hundreds or thousands of years, maybe it's not worth to learn such a fickle power, especially when you possess great physical power anyway... along with flight and the ability to breathe fire, lightning or whatever.
    Last edited by Raimun; 2019-12-06 at 05:35 AM.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    The magic in Warhammer is different but not necessarily less powerful. Wizards with Caster Level 4 (a miniature game term) are able cast spells that can alter a battle between armies: that's the equivalent of high level D&D-magic. Heck, even a Caster Level 1 wizard can do that but with greater difficulty.
    This is true, i remember an edition where Finreir + Banishment could just end the battle.

    But i was more refering to the RPG than to the battle game.
    In Warhammer FRP, notably in 2nd edition, magic can be powerful, but much less than in D&D.
    IDK for 3rd edition (and i won't), and i have yet to read the 4th, but in 1st edition, where magic was probably the most powerful and the most forgiving of all editions i believe, even a level 4 wizard did not have the power and the versatility of a 3.5 level 17 wizard.

    There were even some kind of magic that were really difficult of access (at least in 1st and 2nd), or could never be permanent. Long-range teleportation, for instance. Flying is high level. Access to other plane doesn't exist IIRC.
    Some of this has been important to the plot.


    Also? Some of the older Warhammer-dragons are able to cast spells. I've read rules and lore where they could do just that. Dragons are an intelligent species in Warhammer and highly magical to begin with so some of them can learn spells. However, not all of the dragons can learn spells... or won't? If you can live hundreds or thousands of years, maybe it's not worth to learn such a fickle power, especially when you possess great physical power anyway... along with flight and the ability to breathe fire, lightning or whatever.
    I know there are some in the lore. But i never seen one in the battle game or the RPG.
    They have their flight, their huge strength and armor, their breath and maybe some specific few other powers. But i never heard of any dragon in the games that could teleport or completely negate a wizard's powers.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2019-12-06 at 08:56 AM.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    I love the Warhammer setting. But odds are, OOTS would be a completely different story in Warhammer Fantasy.

    • Roy: Some type of soldier class for sure.
    • Haley: Cat burglar.
    • Durkon: Slayer. The only known dwarves to be exiled were slayers. He might have been a priest prior to being exiled (but not a magical one). Or maybe a physician.
      OOTS probably wouldn't have bothered resurrecting him (which isn't even an option in WH), figuring he probably would not be happy at all with that.
    • Elan: Troubadour. Assuming someone like Elan could exist in the grim dark world of Warhammer. His unending optimism would probably be mistaken for corruption!
    • Vaarsuvius: V is a bit tricky. But ultimately I believe he would be a bright wizard, wielder of the winds of Aqshy.
      While elves in WH knew how to wield all of the winds of magic, player character elves had to choose from the same limited schools that humans did. And besides, his access to only "inferior" magic would certainly be a good driving force for the previously ambitious V.
    • Belkar: An ex-field warden. Probably defended the lands of the Moot once upon a time, but was greedy and corrupt so got kicked out. At this point in the story, probably has ranks in undead slayer.
    • Xykon: An undead necromancer.
    • Red Cloak: Not sure. But I think a skaven seer. Goblins can be cunning in WH, but are ultimately just the whipping boys of orcs. Skaven society is built on machiavellianism, and the seers are masters of it. And as an added bonus, skavens hate humans. Well, they hate everyone (including other skavens). But especially humans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Resileaf View Post
    The War of the Beard was a grudge powerful enough that it made the dwarfs force the elves off the entire continent (except for those in Athel Loren that would become wood elves later, which the dwarfs still attempt to wipe out).
    Wasn't it the elves that won the War of the Beard? I thought the war basically heralded the decline of the Dawi Empire.
    Last edited by xroads; 2019-12-06 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Fixed grammar

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    I love the Warhammer setting. But odds are, OOTS would be a completely different story in Warhammer Fantasy.
    I agree.

    Durkon: Slayer. The only known dwarves to be exiled were slayers. He might have been a priest prior to being exiled (but not a magical one). Or maybe a physician.
    OOTS probably wouldn't have bothered resurrecting him (which isn't even an option in WH), figuring he probably would not be happy at all with that.
    There are other kind of dwarves adventurers in WH, but IIRC, most of them are not exiled indeed.

    Red Cloak: Not sure. But I think a skaven seer. Goblins can be cunning in WH, but are ultimately just the whipping boys of orcs.
    Which would certainly be a good motivation for him. The dynamics between orcs and goblins in WH can be paralleled with the dynamics between bugbears, hobgoblins and goblins in D&D.
    Wanting progress for his own kind is something a goblins would want.

    I don't see this in a skaven who hates everyone outside of his own Clan (and inside to a degree), and who already believe that skavens are the superior race and just need to keep conquering other races' territories.
    Last edited by Petrocorus; 2019-12-06 at 02:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam K View Post
    Sun Tzu never had tier problems. If he had to deal with D&D, the Art of War would read "Full casters or GTFO".
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Which would certainly be a good motivation for him. The dynamics between orcs and goblins in WH can be paralleled with the dynamics between bugbears, hobgoblins and goblins in D&D.
    Wanting progress for his own kind is something a goblins would want.

    I don't see this in a skaven who hates everyone outside of his own Clan (and inside to a degree), and who already believe that skavens are the superior race and just need to keep conquering other races' territories.
    On the other hand, Skaven are definitely trying to summon their god in the material world, which is somewhat related to Redcloak's objective in OotS.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    Which would certainly be a good motivation for him. The dynamics between orcs and goblins in WH can be paralleled with the dynamics between bugbears, hobgoblins and goblins in D&D.
    Wanting progress for his own kind is something a goblins would want.
    I can see your point.

    On the one hand, the greenskins as a whole seem to have no desire aside from war. So much so that they're sometimes compared to being a weather phenomena. Like a hurricane that can't be reasoned with.

    On the other hand, a big part of the OOTS story is Red Cloak trying to rise goblinoids above the cannon fodder trope and make them a society that must be taken seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    I don't see this in a skaven who hates everyone outside of his own Clan (and inside to a degree), and who already believe that skavens are the superior race and just need to keep conquering other races' territories.
    To be fair, neither the greenskin or skaven races have an inferiority complex in Warhammer Fantasy and could probably wipe humans/elves/dwarves off the map completely. Most of what holds both of them back is internal fighting.
    Last edited by xroads; 2019-12-06 at 05:26 PM.

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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Skarsnik is probably the most Redcloak-like of the Warhammer goblins- highly intelligent, with a certain amount of vision, at least as portrayed in the novels.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by xroads View Post
    On the one hand, the greenskins as a whole seem to have no desire aside from war. So much so that they're sometimes compared to being a weather phenomena. Like a hurricane that can't be reasoned with.
    True.

    The word "Waaagh" even look like "wave" to me. Even more so in French. It basically happens from time to time like an earthquake and the resulting tsunami.

    To be fair, neither the greenskin or skaven races have an inferiority complex in Warhammer Fantasy and could probably wipe humans/elves/dwarves off the map completely. Most of what holds both of them back is internal fighting.
    The goblins may not have an inferiority complex per se but as someone put it, they are the whipping boys of the orcs and certainly resent that.
    They are certainly not cannon fodder to low-level adventurer like in D&D, but are used as cannon fodder in battle by the orcs.
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    Default Re: What If: What if OOTS was in Warhammer Fantasy

    Also one major glaring difference..
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    Except OOTS in Warhammer would end with Snarl suddenly winning even after getting clobbered and the new universe will have them as Gold-Armored Knights led by an ascended emperor.


    And Elan won't get his happy ending.
    Edit: Also since this is Warhammer, which character would be using firearms.
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