Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

[Forum Explorer]

Yeah, those are the two I'm tending towards. Fluff-wise...slight preference towards Eldar, though honestly it doesn't matter much to me.



Good to hear!



Baal Predators weren't my thing so much as Fast Razorbacks and Sanguinary Priests giving Feel No Pain to half the army. Doesn't look like either of those are still things, unfortunately.



Because they're getting phased out, or is it just a power-level thing compared to the Primaris troops options? EDIT: Speaking of, where are the rules for Primaris Infiltrators/Incursors? I don't seem them in Index: Imperium 1.

Cool.

I'm an Eldar player myself, so if you need any help writing a list, I can certainly point you in the right direction. Mind you, the first thing is to know how competitive your meta is.


I don't think so.


Power level thing that may lead to them being phased out entirely. Tactical Marines have gotten basically no attention since 8th started, while Primaris Marines have gotten a bunch. I believe they are in the Space Marine 2.0 Codex. They came out after the Indexes were printed so they aren't in there.

[Cheesegear]

I'm going to push him to play Arena, but probably just regular Matched on whatever tables at first. Elites included, but probably not Commander.
I didn't even know ITC did Kill Team stuff. Do they have a "suggested ruleset" like they do for 40k/AoS or is it just for meta purposes?

From what I can tell, ITC Kill Team isn't anything special:
Arena or Open, Elites, 125 Point Teams, 250 Roster max including 20-model cap. The extra points means Elites are super cool now, instead of gimping your Team every time you take one (or more), and the Roster max. actually makes things slightly sane.

Normal rules is 100-Point Teams, no Roster max, with 20-model cap.
Elites are real bad when you can't afford to take them, and no Roster max means you can tailor real hard.

Death Guard - I loved Plague Marines using the 4th ed. codex, but I don't know if I could stomach their actual aesthetic.

If you don't even like buying your own army's models, you will have a bad time.

Craftworld Eldar - I dig their looks, I like the look of the various Elite units they have.

Friends don't let friends play Craftworlds.

Blood Angels - probably my preference for loyalist Space Marines. I liked how they played in 5th ed., don't know how much that translates to how they play these days.

Blood Angel Razorbacks are total **** in 8th Ed. Codex Marine ones aren't much better (but they are better).
Current Blood Angels revolve heavily around Death Company or Sanguinary Guard death stars... They are not a very good army. Play almost any Imperium army you want, and put a min-maxed Blood Angels Detachment into said army.

Imperial Guard/Astra Militarum - love me some tanks. I don't really care for the modern military aesthetic, but that's potentially solvable by using a different color scheme?

Astra Militarum are good, almost regardless of what you want.

Tau - did I mention I like tanks? Not sure how I feel about the mecha look, though.

T'au Vehicles aren't very good. The vast majority of T'au tactics revolve around Infantry and Drones, with 3 Riptides.

Also, I've got a question about Space Marines - would it be better to go for an all-Primaris list, since that's the way GW seems to be going moving forward? Or is it still reasonable to buy older-style Marines?

Depends which ones.
The main small!Marines to avoid, are Tactical Marines, Assault Marines, and Terminators, and most non-Dreadnought Vehicles.
Veterans, Devastators, Centurions and Fliers are all still pretty good.

Generally speaking, '...it depends', applies. What small!Marines do you have/want? What kind of army are you playing?

[Requizen]

From what I can tell, ITC Kill Team isn't anything special:
Arena or Open, Elites, 125 Point Teams, 250 Roster max including 20-model cap. The extra points means Elites are super cool now, instead of gimping your Team every time you take one (or more), and the Roster max. actually makes things slightly sane.

Normal rules is 100-Point Teams, no Roster max, with 20-model cap.
Elites are real bad when you can't afford to take them, and no Roster max means you can tailor real hard.

That seems fairly reasonable. Yeah 100 is definitely tight with Elites, especially for some factions. I think he's gonna pick up Sisters or Stormcast, so we'll see how that goes.

[IthilanorStPete]

Thanks for the advice, Forum Explorer, Cheesehead. From reading your posts and thinking about it more, definitely going to go with Craftworlds. I'm not sure how competitive the meta is; there's a casual tournament at my FLGS this weekend, so I'll probably talk with some people there and try to get a feel for it. (Anything particular I should be looking out for to gauge competitiveness?)

A few more questions:

• Looking at what models to buy, I see the Start Collecting kit is only really good if I go Iyanden/Wraith-heavy. If I don't do that, how should I approach things, just figure out a list and get the appropriate boxes through my LGS?
• I've seen "SUA" used in discussion in these threads; what's it stand for?
• Are CP used for anything besides strategems?

[LansXero]

Thanks for the advice, Forum Explorer, Cheesehead. From reading your posts and thinking about it more, definitely going to go with Craftworlds. I'm not sure how competitive the meta is; there's a casual tournament at my FLGS this weekend, so I'll probably talk with some people there and try to get a feel for it. (Anything particular I should be looking out for to gauge competitiveness?)

A few more questions:

• Looking at what models to buy, I see the Start Collecting kit is only really good if I go Iyanden/Wraith-heavy. If I don't do that, how should I approach things, just figure out a list and get the appropriate boxes through my LGS?
• I've seen "SUA" used in discussion in these threads; what's it stand for?
• Are CP used for anything besides strategems?

Eldar stratagems are pretty amazing, so while thats all you can do with CPs, its still a lot.

Eldars have a few viable 'builds' but very little in the way of budget / box options.

HQ wise, many people use the Jetbike version, but foot HQs are fine too. However both are sort of expensive so be in the lookout for conversion opportunities.

Troops, cant go wrong with Guardians, they are rather useful. Rangers too, but they are kind of pricey. For me, Dire Avengers are a third rate option.

From there you can go heavy on planes (crimson hunters / hemlocks), shooting (dark reapers), vehicles, etc.

[DataNinja]

• I've seen "SUA" used in discussion in these threads; what's it stand for?

"Set up anywhere" (outside of a range away from models usually specified when someone uses the abbreviation; eg. SUA 9"). I had to infer it from context myself. Took quite a while until it clicked.

[IthilanorStPete]

"Set up anywhere" (outside of a range away from models usually specified when someone uses the abbreviation; eg. SUA 9"). I had to infer it from context myself. Took quite a while until it clicked.

That makes sense. I figured it was something like that, just couldn't figure out what exactly it stood for.

One more question - is there anything especially strong/synergistic with Craftworlds in the Drukhari/Harlequins/Ynnari that I should be looking at to use as a supplemental detachment down the road?

[LansXero]

That makes sense. I figured it was something like that, just couldn't figure out what exactly it stood for.

One more question - is there anything especially strong/synergistic with Craftworlds in the Drukhari/Harlequins/Ynnari that I should be looking at to use as a supplemental detachment down the road?

Razorwings / Ravagers, and for Harlies a SC for Hero's Path stuff I guess? although the jetbikes with haywire can do some stuff as well

[Forum Explorer]

Thanks for the advice, Forum Explorer, Cheesehead. From reading your posts and thinking about it more, definitely going to go with Craftworlds. I'm not sure how competitive the meta is; there's a casual tournament at my FLGS this weekend, so I'll probably talk with some people there and try to get a feel for it. (Anything particular I should be looking out for to gauge competitiveness?)

A few more questions:

• Looking at what models to buy, I see the Start Collecting kit is only really good if I go Iyanden/Wraith-heavy. If I don't do that, how should I approach things, just figure out a list and get the appropriate boxes through my LGS?
• I've seen "SUA" used in discussion in these threads; what's it stand for?
• Are CP used for anything besides strategems?

It is hard to gauge competitiveness without a bunch of experience. The best way would be to try and get a hold of the army lists that the players are using, and we'll be able to tell you how competitive things are.

A quick way would be to see what factions are being used, and that will at least a general idea. If everything is Space Marines, Eldar/Dark Eldar, and Imperial Guard, it's probably more on the competitive side of things. If you are seeing Tyranids, Necrons, Grey Knights, Custodes (as in a full Custodes army), and Tau lists without three Riptides, it likely isn't that competitive.


Sadly, there really isn't any deals for making an Eldar army. So yeah, I would recommend writing up (and tweaking) a list first, then aiming to build it. Alternatively, you can look to buy an entire army used off ebay, and than adjust that once you start getting experience.


CP can be used to take a single unit outside of any detachment. This costs a detachment slot (you only get three detachments), but the unit can be any size-even below the minimum required squad size. It's mostly useless to do this.

One more question - is there anything especially strong/synergistic with Craftworlds in the Drukhari/Harlequins/Ynnari that I should be looking at to use as a supplemental detachment down the road?

Not particularly, no. You can build a very strong list by cherry picking the strongest Craftworld, Drukhari, and Harlequin units though. Don't bother with Ynnari at this stage, it's mostly not worth the effort.

[Cheesegear]

A few more questions:
Looking at what models to buy, I see the Start Collecting kit is only really good if I go Iyanden/Wraith-heavy. If I don't do that, how should I approach things, just figure out a list and get the appropriate boxes through my LGS?

Pretty much, yes.

I've seen "SUA" used in discussion in these threads; what's it stand for?

Set up anywhere. It doesn't get used much because:
a) In YouTube videos, 'set up anywhere' is relatively easy to say, so people just say that.
b) When typing, almost everyone who talks competitively, is Old Guard, and uses words like 'Infiltrate' or 'Deep Strike'. In modern vernacular, those words don't mean anything. However, they, and everyone they're talking to, knows what they mean when they say 'Incursors Infiltrate, and Reivers Deep Strike.' because they already know the shorthand.
(Just like an 8th Ed. player wont know what Dark Eldar are, 'cause they've only ever seen Drukhari. But if someone said they played Dark Eldar, most people would still understand, even if it's not correct.)

e.g; Incursors can set up anywhere during deployment. Whilst Reivers can only set up anywhere post-Turn 2.
One of these units is superior to the other.

Are CP used for anything besides strategems?

They used to be used for Auxilliary Detachments. But no-one really does that anymore except outside of extremely specialised army builds.

[Grim Portent]

I've been getting an itch to go back to my World Eaters chaos army after barely playing them since 8th came out, so I feel I should ask if there's any decent lists for an all WE army these days?

Apoplectic Frenzy from F&F seem like it helps with the mobility issues a bit, but it does seem inferior to just going for Red Corsairs since the CP cost is going to stack up fast, and Bloodhunger is the only relic that really leaps out at me as properly useful. I do love the idea of throwing down 10 terminators with Red Butchers on them, but it's not as if WE struggle to kill things, it's surviving to kill things that's the issue.

[Celticbear]

Do you guys know what time it is?

KILL TEAM BATTLE REPORT TIME
KROOT VS BLACK TEMPLARS

Aight, so this game happened about two hours ago, and was interrupted by me having to both get groceries and lunch for my roommates, so some details will be fuzzy. However, with a tournament coming up in a week, I'd like some tactics suggestions, so here we are.

THE TEAMS

My Kroot are 17 men strong. I've got carnivores filling as my leader, scout, and veteran, and the krootox rider is my combat. Then I have another 13 Kroot carnivores (this was a 125 point game).

Black Templar had an intercessor seargent as his leader, an intercessor gunner with flamer as his demolitions, another gunner with plasma as his sniper, and a tactical with auspex for his comms. He then got a couple tactical Marines with bolters to round out the list. Then he got a terminator with a power fist. That was going to be a problem.

THE MISSION

We were playing a tournament mission from the last one, it was an alternate take on disrupt supply lines. There were five objectives, one in the center and four in the four corners. The win conditions were as follows:
Control one objective: 1 point
Control two objectives: 1 point
Control more objectives than your opponent: 1 point
Control the center objective: 1 point
There were also secondary objectives which you could choose from. I don't know what the Templar player chose, but I chose Cut Apart (take out a model in the fight phase), Recon Sweep (have an unshaken model in enemy deployment zone), and Domination (control center). The game ends at the bottom of battle round 4.

THE GAME

I won deployment, so I got to place my guys down first. Because of my numbers, I was able to place regular carnivores out enough so I could counterdeploy my specialists against his. Each my kroots travelled in packs of two to five, I knew that morale was gonna be a problem late in the game, but I didn't need to be active all game in order to get a lead. I lost initiative, which was awesome because the black Templar sent his terminator into easy charge range for my krootox. I sent out a carnivore first to take up the Terminator's overwatch, and he survived, allowing the Krootox to charge in unmolested. He focused a bunch of his troops in one area, and I was stupid enough to put my leader in that area instead of the relatively weaker one. I pushed him and his squad of five or so carnivores under a staircase where his flamer was waiting. What I didn't know about that staircase was that there were holes in the steps, meaning he and I could shoot through it, but there would be cover. Didn't matter too much for the flamer though.

My veteran and his squad went into center with my krootox, and then I sent two Kroot to the one tactical marine holding one of the objectives, leaving two behind in cover to snipe people. Shooting happens, and a lot gets done. Templar's plasma NUKES a carnivore, and his flamer shoots my leader. Then combat happened, I spent two command points I had saved up to allow my Krootox to get 8 attacks... and missed with most of them. His Terminator missed a bunch with the fist though, so that was good. The end of round one, it was 3-5 in my favor with no shaken models, though it was gonna be pretty bad for me if I didn't get a miracle.

A miracle occured however I the second round as I made most of my charges, tying up his shooting models with my mine. I also killed the Terminator with my Krootox that round, and secured enough objective points that the rest of the game was pretty much a formality. Battle round three passed, most of my Kroot got shaken except for my veteran and a couple lucky ones. In the end, the score was 9-17 in my favor, with the tournament maximum being 18.

WHAT I LEARNED

Morale isn't really a problem for Kroot if you go into the game expecting your army to be nullified by round three. I made the first two count so I wouldn't have to worry about the second half. Tying up people into melee turned the tide of battle into my favor, because even if they were shaken, the Templars would have to fall back and lose a round of shooting. My only real tactical error was misplacing my leader, which nutered my command points for the game. While I may have lost 10 Kroot out 17, and he only lost 2 Templars out of 9, the shapers were pleased, and the survivors returned to the Oathstone with tales of victory in their beaks, and Templar brains in their belly.

[IthilanorStPete]

Armies at the fun-to-play tournament tonight: A good few Marines, a couple of Chaos Marines, one Guard, one Eldar, one Necron. I also know there's a Custodes player that wasn't around tonight.

So let's talk army lists. There's a four-week escalation league starting at the end of the month; 500 points the first week, going up by 250 points every week.

One plan I'm thinking of uses the Start Collecting box pretty heavily, going Biel-Tan with lots of shuriken weapons:

Spoiler: Week 1 - 500pts

Show

Patrol Detachment
Craftworld: Biel-Tan

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer - 110pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Troops
Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Elites
Wraithguard - 165pts
-5x Wraithguard
-Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
Wraithlord - 110pts
-2x Shuriken Catapult
-2x Shuriken Cannon
-Ghostglaive

Spoiler: Week 2 - 750pts

Show

Patrol Detachment
Craftworld: Biel-Tan

HQ
(Warlord) Asurmen - 150 pts
I couldn't give him a Warlord trait in Battlescribe; is that a bug, or can Phoenix Lords not be Warlords or something?

Troops
Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Elites
Wraithguard - 165pts
-5x Wraithguard
-Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
Wraithlord - 110pts
-2x Shuriken Catapult
-2x Shuriken Cannon
-Ghostglaive

Dark Reapers - 93pts
-2x Dark Reapers
-1x Exarch (Reaper Launcher)

Spoiler: Week 3 - 1000pts

Show

Battalion Detachment
Craftworld: Biel-Tan

HQ

(Warlord) Farseer - 110pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Asurmen - 150 pts

Troops
Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Guardian Defenders - 95pts
-10x Guardian Defenders
-1x Heavy Weapons Platform (Shuriken Cannon)

Elites
Wraithguard - 165pts
-5x Wraithguard
-Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
Dark Reapers - 93pts
-2x Dark Reapers
-1x Exarch (Reaper Launcher)

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 157pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon
-Spirit Stones

Spoiler: Week 4 - 1250pts

Show

Battalion Detachment
Craftworld: Biel-Tan

HQ

(Warlord) Farseer - 110pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Asurmen - 150 pts

Troops
Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Dire Avengers - 113pts
-9x Dire Avengers
-1x Exarch (2x Avenger Shuriken Catapults)

Guardian Defenders - 95pts
-10x Guardian Defenders
-1x Heavy Weapons Platform (Shuriken Cannon)

Elites
Wraithguard - 165pts
-5x Wraithguard
-Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
Wraithlord - 110pts
-2x Shuriken Catapult
-2x Shuriken Cannon
-Ghostglaive

Dark Reapers - 93pts
-2x Dark Reapers
-1x Exarch (Reaper Launcher)

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

How do these lists look?

[LansXero]

Do you need to use the same units week after week? How big will the tables be? (1k and below are better in 48 x 48). Because at low points, well supported wraithblades just murder things.

[Forum Explorer]

You need to take a look into Blood of the Phoenix, it has some Exarch traits that you'll certainly want for your Dire Avengers. Also while a Phoenix Lord can be your Warlord, they can never have a Warlord Trait (which is BS), so that isn't a bug.

[IthilanorStPete]

Do you need to use the same units week after week? How big will the tables be? (1k and below are better in 48 x 48). Because at low points, well supported wraithblades just murder things.

4' x 4' tables. I don't need to use the same units between weeks, but I was planning on using mostly the same models to minimize how many I need to buy.

You need to take a look into Blood of the Phoenix, it has some Exarch traits that you'll certainly want for your Dire Avengers. Also while a Phoenix Lord can be your Warlord, they can never have a Warlord Trait (which is BS), so that isn't a bug.

*Googles Blood of the Phoenix Exarch powers*

*sees Bladestorm (EDIT: and Shredding Fire)*

Yes. Yes I do.

EDIT: Just to confirm, those two powers both apply to the whole unit? Not just the Exarch?

Good to know about the Phoenix Lords.

EDIT: Any suggestions for how to store/carry around models?

[Forum Explorer]

4' x 4' tables. I don't need to use the same units between weeks, but I was planning on using mostly the same models to minimize how many I need to buy.



*Googles Blood of the Phoenix Exarch powers*

*sees Bladestorm (EDIT: and Shredding Fire)*

Yes. Yes I do.

EDIT: Just to confirm, those two powers both apply to the whole unit? Not just the Exarch?

Good to know about the Phoenix Lords.

EDIT: Any suggestions for how to store/carry around models?

Bladestorm works on the whole unit, Shredding Fire only works on the Exarch. But because you are running a full squad of 10 with Asurmen, I'd try out Avenging Strike which also works on the whole unit. (+1 to hit and to wound after taking a casualty). Just remember, these powers only work when the Exarch is alive, so don't try and save a model by putting a wound on him. Also the Exarch loses his 4+ invulnerable, but you're running Asurmen so that doesn't matter so much.

[IthilanorStPete]

Bladestorm works on the whole unit, Shredding Fire only works on the Exarch. But because you are running a full squad of 10 with Asurmen, I'd try out Avenging Strike which also works on the whole unit. (+1 to hit and to wound after taking a casualty). Just remember, these powers only work when the Exarch is alive, so don't try and save a model by putting a wound on him. Also the Exarch loses his 4+ invulnerable, but you're running Asurmen so that doesn't matter so much.

To make sure I'm reading the rules right: the problem with putting a wound on the Exarch is the rule that says "If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds, the damage must be allocated to that model.", right?

[Forum Explorer]

To make sure I'm reading the rules right: the problem with putting a wound on the Exarch is the rule that says "If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds, the damage must be allocated to that model.", right?

Correct. So the next wound must kill the exarch and thus lose you the power

[IthilanorStPete]

Gotcha @ the wound system.

Another set of potential lists, heavily leaning on Rangers and Fire Prisms:

Spoiler: Week 1 - 500pts

Show

Patrol Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Spoiler: Week 2 - 750pts

Show

Patrol Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Elites
Fire Dragons - 113pts
-4x Fire Dragons
-1x Exarch (Firepike)

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 142pts

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Spoiler: Week 3 - 1000pts

Show

Battalion Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Illic Nightspear - 65pts

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Elites
Fire Dragons - 113pts
-4x Fire Dragons
-1x Exarch (Firepike)

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 157pts
-Spirit Stones
-Crystal Targeting Matrix

Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

War Walkers - 55pts
-1x War Walker (2x Shuriken Cannon)

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Spoiler: Week 4 - 1250pts

Show

Battalion Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Illic Nightspear - 65pts

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Elites
Fire Dragons - 113pts
-4x Fire Dragons
-1x Exarch (Firepike)

Wraithguard - 165pts
-5x Wraithguard
-Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

[Renegade Paladin]

I'm playing in the Chaos Storm GT in three weeks. Since the Grav-Chute Insertion nerf removed the melta delivery method I used for the Circle City GT, I'm trying a different route. Thoughts?

Spoiler: Imperial Armor

Show

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [29 PL, 8CP, 520pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 38pts]: Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Power fist, Warlord

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 53pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 58pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 58pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 57pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [1 PL, 21pts]: Telepathica Stave

Command Squad [2 PL, 32pts]
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Sniper rifle

Commissar [2 PL, 24pts]: Bolt pistol, Power fist

+ Heavy Support +

Manticore [8 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [55 PL, , 874pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Fist Tank Company

+ HQ +

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 220pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 195pts]: Battle Cannon, Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Relic (Emperor's Fist): Hammer of Sunderance

+ Heavy Support +

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 153pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 153pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 153pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [39 PL, -1CP, 606pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Blade Assault Company

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, -1CP, 30pts]: Chainsword, Emperor's Blade, Field Commander, Laspistol, WT (Emperor's Blade): Mechanized Commander

Lord Commissar [4 PL, 35pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword

+ Elites +

Veterans [5 PL, 88pts]
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
. 5x Veteran w/ Lasgun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Veteran w/ Vox-caster: Lasgun, Vox-caster

Veterans [5 PL, 111pts]
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
. Veteran W/ Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer
. 4x Veteran w/ Lasgun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Veteran w/ Vox-caster: Lasgun, Vox-caster

Veterans [5 PL, 111pts]
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
. Veteran W/ Heavy Flamer: Heavy flamer
. 4x Veteran w/ Lasgun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Veteran w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Veteran w/ Vox-caster: Lasgun, Vox-caster

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera [6 PL, 73pts]: Heavy Bolter, Multi-laser

Chimera [6 PL, 79pts]: Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser

Chimera [6 PL, 79pts]: Heavy Flamer, Multi-laser

++ Total: [123 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

It sacrifices a lot of command points over the Tempestus Battalion I ran at my last GT, but on the plus side it goes back to my 5th edition roots. I initially tried making the Emperor's Blade into a Battalion, but I couldn't then afford more than two Chimeras. I'd love to run the Emperor's Blade as Steel Legion, but all my infantry is painted the same scheme so I couldn't sufficiently differentiate them.

[Selpharia]

I don’t know what your meta is like, but two Prisms in 500 points is unlikely to win you many friends in a casual setting.

[LansXero]

I don’t know what your meta is like, but two Prisms in 500 points is unlikely to win you many friends in a casual setting.

It'd have to be a super duper casual enviroment for people to resent prisms. Plague Drones will have a field day with him, and double PBC would be far harder to deal with. a Supreme Command of Bike HQs would also put in more work and be way harder to deal with. Not sure what about prisms makes them unfair.

[JNAProductions]

It'd have to be a super duper casual enviroment for people to resent prisms. Plague Drones will have a field day with him, and double PBC would be far harder to deal with. a Supreme Command of Bike HQs would also put in more work and be way harder to deal with. Not sure what about prisms makes them unfair.

They're burtally murderous, especially in a pair with Linked Fire?

[DataNinja]

It'd have to be a super duper casual enviroment for people to resent prisms. Plague Drones will have a field day with him, and double PBC would be far harder to deal with. a Supreme Command of Bike HQs would also put in more work and be way harder to deal with. Not sure what about prisms makes them unfair.

To be quite frank, from what I've gathered in these threads as on observer... your meta seems to be a fairly competitive place, with how you mention your lists, and how people tend to respond to them.

[Saambell]

To be quite frank, from what I've gathered in these threads as on observer... your meta seems to be a fairly competitive place, with how you mention your lists, and how people tend to respond to them.

I've noticed that too, but it's the main thing that even lets his meta exist in the first place. By treating it as a game to be won, it makes it more acceptable for people to play or invest in it. Warhammer is a lot to invest in, and by treating it like a sport, and justifying buying models as buying sports equipment, it means people actually play. Also, his meta allows for proxies, due to the high cost. Better to know a unit is good before buying, or to not have a nerf make the models you bought worthless. But that has the side effect of "if any model can be anything, why not have it be the best?". Which leads to power gaming in a group that exists because they treat it like a sport. It was the natural end state of these two aspects of LansXero's meta.

[Forum Explorer]

Gotcha @ the wound system.

Another set of potential lists, heavily leaning on Rangers and Fire Prisms:

Spoiler: Week 1 - 500pts

Show

Patrol Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Spoiler: Week 2 - 750pts

Show

Patrol Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Elites
Fire Dragons - 113pts
-4x Fire Dragons
-1x Exarch (Firepike)

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 142pts

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Spoiler: Week 3 - 1000pts

Show

Battalion Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Illic Nightspear - 65pts

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Elites
Fire Dragons - 113pts
-4x Fire Dragons
-1x Exarch (Firepike)

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 157pts
-Spirit Stones
-Crystal Targeting Matrix

Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

War Walkers - 55pts
-1x War Walker (2x Shuriken Cannon)

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Spoiler: Week 4 - 1250pts

Show

Battalion Detachment
Craftworld: Alaitoc

HQ
(Warlord) Farseer Skyrunner - 132pts
-Warlord Trait: Fate's Messenger
-Psychic Powers: Doom, Fortune

Illic Nightspear - 65pts

Troops
Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Rangers - 60pts
-5x Rangers

Elites
Fire Dragons - 113pts
-4x Fire Dragons
-1x Exarch (Firepike)

Wraithguard - 165pts
-5x Wraithguard
-Wraithcannons

Heavy Support
Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism - 152pts
-Spirit Stones

Dedicated Transport
Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

Wave Serpent - 147pts
-Twin Shuriken Cannon
-Shuriken Cannon

At the 750 points, I'd drop the Wave Serpent and pick up more rangers to make it a Battalion. You might need to drop the Fire Dragons as well to do that, but I feel getting the extra CP earlier would be better. For Week 4, you can drop 1 Wave Serpent to take another Fire Prism. Instead of transporting a unit you can always have them SUA using Webway Strike for 1 CP.

I don’t know what your meta is like, but two Prisms in 500 points is unlikely to win you many friends in a casual setting.

He doesn't know how competitive his meta is either. Fire Prisms aren't really too crazy, so as long as it's not too casual I think it'll fly.

[DataNinja]

I've noticed that too, but it's the main thing that even lets his meta exist in the first place. By treating it as a game to be won, it makes it more acceptable for people to play or invest in it. Warhammer is a lot to invest in, and by treating it like a sport, and justifying buying models as buying sports equipment, it means people actually play. Also, his meta allows for proxies, due to the high cost. Better to know a unit is good before buying, or to not have a nerf make the models you bought worthless. But that has the side effect of "if any model can be anything, why not have it be the best?". Which leads to power gaming in a group that exists because they treat it like a sport. It was the natural end state of these two aspects of LansXero's meta.

Oh, I know, but it was just more of a state that it's not necessarily a good judge of what is and isn't acceptable elsewhere.

[LansXero]

Oh, I know, but it was just more of a state that it's not necessarily a good judge of what is and isn't acceptable elsewhere.

Oh no, I get that most groups arent as competitive as here (and we're pretty chill I think; no heavy 300 models hordes, no drone spam, etc.). But of all the things in the eldar codex that can be broken at low points, fire prisms would rank low. A Guardian bomb for example would be harder to deal with; fire prisms have a random number of shots and cant be spammed too much so against a low points army with several targets you might not even kill much and cant cover enough terrain. Any marine HQ on a jetpack will ruin their day, and so will plague drones or daemon princes.

Its less about my meta being hard, than it is about fire prims really not being that bad, relatively speaking.

I've noticed that too, but it's the main thing that even lets his meta exist in the first place. By treating it as a game to be won, it makes it more acceptable for people to play or invest in it. Warhammer is a lot to invest in, and by treating it like a sport, and justifying buying models as buying sports equipment, it means people actually play. Also, his meta allows for proxies, due to the high cost. Better to know a unit is good before buying, or to not have a nerf make the models you bought worthless. But that has the side effect of "if any model can be anything, why not have it be the best?". Which leads to power gaming in a group that exists because they treat it like a sport. It was the natural end state of these two aspects of LansXero's meta.

We have several modes of play, mainly:

- "Proxy Friday", anything goes, try any random off-the-wall list or unit combo, try narrative missions, whatever. Would suck having to buy different models because we just felt like trying zone mortalis and certain units happen to be fun in that. Or wanting to try Librarian spam and having to shell out 25$ per model for the priviledge.

- Regular play, on weekends or by agreement on other days, where people sometimes limit number of proxies / FW models and play mostly Maelstrom2019, because this is all preparation for

- Tournaments, where there is a hard cap on proxy points, armies have to be painted with 3 color mins or you get CPs deducted, etc. These are competitive events with a chess clock every month or so that keep people engaged and improving.

So far its been working and people do play things that arent 'the best'. For example, nobody plays thunderfire cannons, even though they can proxy them, because we dont play ITC but also because no LoS potshots are boring.

[Cheesegear]

But of all the things in the eldar codex that can be broken at low points, fire prisms would rank low.

Fyre pisrms suck. GW plz buff.