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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Not even asking for a points drop? Gee, you sure like playing on hard mode, dontcha?
    It's Craftworlds. It's already the hardest Codex in the game to play.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    So.. like 5 each? Ok, they're not fighty sentinels, they're expensive Wraithblades. Tell me how meta Wraithblades are, and they even have way better support than Sisters can give the P-engines. Unless you mean the flail version which cant wound vehicles and only has a 6+++
    They have more wounds than Wriathblades, so them being higher points is fine. Hell, Pen Engines have been fine wince the Index, this is just keeping them relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    While we're talking about Sister durability, someone (Goonhammer I think) calculated out that it would take 109 Heavy Bolter shots to kill the Triumph of Saint Katherine. Or Bolt Rifle shots, which are the same thing against her anyways.

    Wait, what? 18 T3 4++ wounds takes that many shots? So I'm hearing 20 sister blobs....
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    -1 to be hit too.
    I have a LOT of Homebrew!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Wait, what? 18 T3 4++ wounds takes that many shots? So I'm hearing 20 sister blobs....
    More critically is the -1 to hit. That makes a massive difference.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    More critically is the -1 to hit. That makes a massive difference.
    Oh...wait...it does have that. Completely forgot. Also its not bad at 185 points. Was worried it'd be stupid pricey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear
    The 'Whole Army' rule for for <Ministorum> is Sacred Rites; Start of game, pick one, or roll for two:
    1. A 6 to hit in the Fight phase scores two hits,
    2. Every model in the army is affected by an Astartes Banner, but, 5+,
    3. +1 to Advance and Charge,
    4. +3 to Deny the Witch when using AoFs.
    5. Storm of Fire on every single Ministorum unit.
    6. Re-roll Morale tests.
    Just gonna drop this in here so we can easily access it. Now, please refresh my memory, what does an Astartes Banner and Storm of Fire do?
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-11-28 at 11:01 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    So the expansion they're bringing to 8th in Chapter Approved this year is Spearhead. This makes my Guard-playing heart happy.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Oh...wait...it does have that. Completely forgot. Also its not bad at 185 points. Was worried it'd be stupid pricey.



    Just gonna drop this in here so we can easily access it. Now, please refresh my memory, what does an Astartes Banner and Storm of Fire do?
    Astartes banners let a model that's about to be killed shoot a ranged weapon or make 1 melee attack. Storm of fire gives -1 AP on an unmodified 6 to hit.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Astartes banners let a model that's about to be killed shoot a ranged weapon or make 1 melee attack. Storm of fire gives -1 AP on an unmodified 6 to hit.
    Ok, so kinda eh, the other one isn't bad though. So there's two good Sacred Rights. Real shame we can't use them with Allies. *totally not annoyed by this decision*
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Ok, so kinda eh, the other one isn't bad though. So there's two good Sacred Rights. Real shame we can't use them with Allies. *totally not annoyed by this decision*
    I mean, they're supposed to be the Soritas equivalent of Combat Doctorines; a reward you get for going mono-faction. But I've already posted my opinion on mono-faction rules (They punish people for choosing armies that are already struggling, and reward people who go with the strongest armies), and the Sacred Rights aren't really as powerful as just staying in Devastator Doctorine is for marines... much less the extra benefits you can get from the supplements.
    Last edited by Squark; 2019-11-28 at 12:46 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    I mean, they're supposed to be the Soritas equivalent of Combat Doctorines; a reward you get for going mono-faction. But I've already posted my opinion on mono-faction rules (They punish people for choosing armies that are already struggling, and reward people who go with the strongest armies), and the Sacred Rights aren't really as powerful as just staying in Devastator Doctorine is for marines... much less the extra benefits you can get from the supplements.
    I think we all agree that Devastator Doctrine is a bit... much, even when not on Iron Hands, so I don't have an issue with the Sacred Rights, per se, though a few definitely need a boost or to just be replaced (looking at you Morale Re-roll). And I honestly don't get why they're hung up on that, only Sisters get the bonus, so who cares who you bring along?

    Would Sisters like a Knight to help with their Tank Killing? Yes.
    Would Ad Mech like a brick of Sisters for Denying while holding a midfield objective? Sure.

    Except that we can't do that cuz we lose one of our biggest bonuses (the +3 on Deny) and even the loss of AP -1 on a 6 kinda sucks cuz Sisters can throw enough Bolter shots for cheap that they'll come up enough that you'll notice the lack of it.

    Its just dumb, they aren't that good that they need them taken away, but they are good enough that you notice when you don't have them.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Rumour has it that there'd be a point drop for Dark Reapers, Shining Spears, Hemlocks and Warlocks / Spiritseers.

    Glad to see some well deserved improvements to a struggling faction. It'll make the unjustified point increase of the Crimson Hunter Exarch slightly less painful.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Rumour has it that there'd be a point drop for Dark Reapers, Shining Spears, Hemlocks and Warlocks / Spiritseers.

    Glad to see some well deserved improvements to a struggling faction. It'll make the unjustified point increase of the Crimson Hunter Exarch slightly less painful.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Rumour has it that there'd be a point drop for Dark Reapers, Shining Spears, Hemlocks and Warlocks / Spiritseers.

    Glad to see some well deserved improvements to a struggling faction. It'll make the unjustified point increase of the Crimson Hunter Exarch slightly less painful.
    This has to be sarcasm right?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    I hadn't painted for a while, and I finally found my mojo again when I started painting my knights. I was pretty chronically known for starting stuff and getting distracted by other GW projects and rarely finishing anything, but this was different, this was fun, I'm going to actually finish an army before I get distracted and move on to something else for once.

    Then I had to wait a fortnight for an order to come in, so to busy myself, I decided that since making a call on my knights colour scheme after multiple years, I'd do the same for my marines and did some tests and then painted up a dev squad to pass the time. Ya know, since I need a tournament army and all. Now I have minimal interest in going back to my knights.

    "Hey Drasius, want to start Titanicus with us?" Yes. Yes I very much would love to play Battletech Titanicus with you. So now the marines are on the backburner after a week in the spotlight.

    Why am I like this?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Man, is it hard to see from all the way up there?
    I mean, we're a bunch of filthy ground walkers, so we wouldn't understand

    Being serious here, I think we can say that LansXero is in a meta almost as weird as Cheese's. I mean maybe it's super hostile to Eldar or something. IDK.
    Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2019-11-28 at 09:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I mean, we're a bunch of filthy ground walkers, so we wouldn't understand

    Being serious here, I think we can say that LansXero is in a meta almost as weird as Cheese's. I mean maybe it's super hostile to Eldar or something. IDK.
    At a 19-2 win rate, there's probably a reason it's hostile...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    At a 19-2 win rate, there's probably a reason it's hostile...
    Thats only for 'official' 2k games though. We havent played any of those in quite a while, since starting our narrative escalation campaign (Which Team Xenos isnt winning, due to lack of people :'(. Being capped at 3-wins per player sucks when Imperial and Chaos just zerg rush each other xD).

    Also yeah, I was completely not serious about Craftworlds struggling (although I do think 15 pts. was a bit too much for the Exarch flyer). Nevertheless, points reductions are always welcome :D And it seems many struggling models will benefit. I mean, a 45 point drop sounds like a lot, but even that wont make Wraithknights useful

    Being serious here, I think we can say that LansXero is in a meta almost as weird as Cheese's. I mean maybe it's super hostile to Eldar or something. IDK.
    Well, as the store owner I taught 90% of our community how to play, so they tailor super hard to beat me because then they get to rub it in my face for a while. Luckily for me I both play a pretty cool faction and have more experience than them, so I keep pulling wins I probably wouldn't against more savvy oponents (Rangers stealing random objectives and camping them, a Guardian bomb eating far more shots than it should, someone taking the bait and exposing themselves to blow a plane, etc.) and since money is tight, horde armies arent much of a concern due to $ cost of models. Then again, despite how you may perceive me, Im a pretty friendly oponent. I call people on mistakes so they can make a take back, I try to get them to deploy properly, I help them list build to the best of my knowledge (even coming here to ask for lists when Im stumped) and keep reminding them of their own rules and effects.

    I try and tone down the arrogance and the 'told you' attitude because they're customers, but as mentioned before everyone here is used to being called out and 'bullied' so they can git gud.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2019-11-28 at 10:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Thats only for 'official' 2k games though. We havent played any of those in quite a while, since starting our narrative escalation campaign (Which Team Xenos isnt winning, due to lack of people :'(. Being capped at 3-wins per player sucks when Imperial and Chaos just zerg rush each other xD).

    Also yeah, I was completely not serious about Craftworlds struggling (although I do think 15 pts. was a bit too much for the Exarch flyer). Nevertheless, points reductions are always welcome :D And it seems many struggling models will benefit. I mean, a 45 point drop sounds like a lot, but even that wont make Wraithknights useful
    I know this is petty, but that thing ruined 7th. It deserves its punishment. My Stompa on the other hand....
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Thats only for 'official' 2k games though.
    Oh, well, that's OK then. /sarcasm


    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Well, as the store owner I taught 90% of our community how to play, so they tailor super hard to beat me because then they get to rub it in my face for a while. Luckily for me I both play a pretty cool faction and have more experience than them, so I keep pulling wins I probably wouldn't against more savvy oponents (Rangers stealing random objectives and camping them, a Guardian bomb eating far more shots than it should, someone taking the bait and exposing themselves to blow a plane, etc.) and since money is tight, horde armies arent much of a concern due to $ cost of models. Then again, despite how you may perceive me, Im a pretty friendly oponent. I call people on mistakes so they can make a take back, I try to get them to deploy properly, I help them list build to the best of my knowledge (even coming here to ask for lists when Im stumped) and keep reminding them of their own rules and effects.

    I try and tone down the arrogance and the 'told you' attitude because they're customers, but as mentioned before everyone here is used to being called out and 'bullied' so they can git gud.

    Oh, well, that's OK then. /sarcasm

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Oh, well, that's OK then. /sarcasm

    Oh, well, that's OK then. /sarcasm
    Would you be less incensed if I told you it was the same ratio when I was using Index sisters or Dark Angels? Would it help if I said I once played a different faction every week for 3 months and went 10-1-1? Dunno what to say, perhaps I should just throw games to make people feel better?

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    Would you be less incensed if I told you it was the same ratio when I was using Index sisters or Dark Angels? Would it help if I said I once played a different faction every week for 3 months and went 10-1-1? Dunno what to say, perhaps I should just throw games to make people feel better?
    Considering that Index SoB were really good and early ed DA were also super strong, no, not really, since you've already told us this.

    There's not much else to say - If your customers are "bads" (as Cheese has undiplomatically called them), it won't matter too much what you play, but pointing out that you have played a string of strong armies to a high win% against "bads" also does you no favours.

    When I was playing against a new guy, I'd bring out my Thousand Sons or Iron Warriors in 6th/7th. If I wanted to have a casual game, I'd bring my mech tau. If I wanted to win a tournament, then it'd be Knights or Skyhammer cheese. Unfortunately for you, the army you like (Kraftworlders) isn't bad, so you don't conviniently have a trash tier army for teaching newbies, though with all the complaining about SoB you've done, that shouldn't be a problem shortly...

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    When I was playing against a new guy, I'd bring out my Thousand Sons or Iron Warriors in 6th/7th. If I wanted to have a casual game, I'd bring my mech tau. If I wanted to win a tournament, then it'd be Knights or Skyhammer cheese. Unfortunately for you, the army you like (Kraftworlders) isn't bad, so you don't conviniently have a trash tier army for teaching newbies, though with all the complaining about SoB you've done, that shouldn't be a problem shortly...
    I'll play my Eldar against newbies, but that's more so I can focus on teaching them their army and not have to worry about what my rules are. I actually find that Eldar make for a good opponent to learn against because they actually do stuff in every phase of the game. They move, and they advance. They use a bunch of psyker powers, and can deny them. They go into melee with lots of different units. They actually are effected by morale. They have a wide variety of unit types, and each unit looks very distinct.

    Mind you, what army I run against a newbie is often just whatever army I brought in that day. I rarely intend to face a complete beginner. Though when I did teach 40K at a convention, I did end up splitting my Eldar in half, and teaching people using my Eldar.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    So, everyone who wanted one really badly, pre-ordered a Sororitas box in less than three minutes.
    Everyone else who wanted the Sororitas box, but then saw reviews, was like "Pfft...I'll wait a few months. See if they get good. If I still want them then, I'll get them. Who needs impulse control when a limited release will do it for you?"
    Everyone else who read reviews was like "Pfft. No."

    Then there's this one dude, who, today, drove 275km (170mi) to camp at our store two hours before open, to get a Sororitas box no-one was interested in.
    Well played.

    Meanwhile I picked up two Vanguard boxes, because Supressors still don't ****en exist and Eliminators will be sold out forever.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    but as mentioned before everyone here is used to being called out and 'bullied' so they can git gud.
    I've restrained myself from saying this several times but I really can't any more: with this attitude, are you sure it's GW that's killing your local community? Nothing else you can think of?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I'll play my Eldar against newbies, but that's more so I can focus on teaching them their army and not have to worry about what my rules are. I actually find that Eldar make for a good opponent to learn against because they actually do stuff in every phase of the game. They move, and they advance. They use a bunch of psyker powers, and can deny them. They go into melee with lots of different units. They actually are effected by morale. They have a wide variety of unit types, and each unit looks very distinct.

    Mind you, what army I run against a newbie is often just whatever army I brought in that day. I rarely intend to face a complete beginner. Though when I did teach 40K at a convention, I did end up splitting my Eldar in half, and teaching people using my Eldar.
    Aren't you one of the people who struggled to win games in 6th/7th with Eldar? (Honest question, I remember we had a couple of people here say that and I could never figure out why).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Then there's this one dude, who, today, drove 275km (170mi) to camp at our store two hours before open, to get a Sororitas box no-one was interested in.
    Well played.

    Meanwhile I picked up two Vanguard boxes, because Supressors still don't ****en exist and Eliminators will be sold out forever.
    To be fair, that is pretty much just down the road for those of us in Qld.

    And yes, I wish they'd hurry the **** up with the Suppressors already.

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    Skull Cannon 80
    Soul Grinder 180
    Feculent Gnarlmaws 85
    Daemon Prince of Chaos 146
    Daemon Prince with Wings 155
    Daemonic axe 10
    Hellforged sword 10
    Malefic talons (one set/two sets) 0/10
    Slimux 150
    Infernal erap… 70
    Kairos 250
    Lord of Change 250
    Lord of Change with sword 255
    Masque 78
    Keeper 210
    Keeper aegis 220
    Poxbringer 70
    Rotigus 250
    Shalaxi 220
    Shalaxi aegis 230
    Skarbrand 290
    Skullmaster 90
    Skulltaker 84
    Bilepiper 60
    Spoil…. 95
    Sylleske 210
    Bloodtrister 210
    Bloodletters 7
    Daemonettes 6
    – Blue Horrors 5
    – Pair of Brimstone Horrors 3
    – Pink Horrors 7
    Nurglings 18
    Plaguebearers
    Furies 7
    Flesh Hounds / Gore Hounds 15/24
    Hellflayer 70
    Plague Drones 36
    Screamers 23
    Seekers 15


    Spoiler: Blood Angels
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    Chief Librarian Mephiston down 15 points to 145
    Commander Dante down 25 points to 150
    Gabriel Seth down 25 points to 110
    The Sanguinor down 50 to 130
    Death Company down 2 points to 15
    Death Company Dreadnought down 10 points to 70
    Elites – Death Company Intercessors are 18 – This must be a new unit, not a CP upgrade.
    Furioso Dreadnought down 10 points to 60
    Primaris Apothecary down 8 points to 60
    Reivers down 2 points to 16
    Sanguinary Ancient down 9 points to 55
    Sanguinary Guard no change – Angelus Boltgun down 3 to 0
    Sanguinary Novitiate down 5 points to 50
    Terminator Ancient down 21 points to 87


    Spoiler: Tyranids
    Show

    Terv 162 (-18)
    Tox 125 (-15)
    Warriors 18 (-2)
    Tyrannocyte 50 (-25)
    both Trygons are 10pts cheaper due to talon costs changing
    Acid spray 20 (-5)
    Impaler cannon 25 (-5)
    Rupture cannon 35 (-14)


    Spoiler: Dark Angels
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    Asmodai 120,
    Azrael – 150,
    Belial – 110,
    Sam Sable – 200
    Sam Corvex – 140/160


    Spoiler: Chaos Space Marines
    Show


    Cultists down to 4,

    chaos terms 23,

    blight lords 34,

    chaos rhino 65.

    Possessed down to 17,

    warp talons 19,

    raptors 15,

    Sorcs 80,

    disco lord 150


    Spoiler: Genestealer Cult
    Show


    -Demo charges from 5 to 10.
    -Heavy mining lasers from 25 to 15
    -missile launcher from 15 to 10
    -clearance incinerator from 30 to 20
    -Heavy seismic cannon -10


    Spoiler: Eldar
    Show

    Wraithblades Axe Shield -10
    Wraithknight -45
    Wraithlords -5
    Hemlock -20
    Spiritseers -10


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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Wraith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Drasius View Post
    Why am I like this?
    There's an old legend that goes: If a wargamer ever finishes painting everything that they own, then they DIE.

    You're not procrastinating, you're attempting to achieve immortality.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Yesss welcome to Titanicus, king of games. If you can get your hands on last year's battleforce, that's a much more reasonable starter than the big Starter Set, even if you have to buy the rules seperately.

    And I have two projects on the go, two unpainted armies under my bed and i'm about to get a third. I too will live forever.
    - Avatar by LCP -

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    There's an old legend that goes: If a wargamer ever finishes painting everything that they own, then they DIE.

    You're not procrastinating, you're attempting to achieve immortality.
    My pile of shame is already at nigh unconquerable levels. It's not so much procrastination, just that I continue to buy more stuff faster than I finish old stuff. Finish 10 Devastators, buy a Reaver and a pair of Warhounds. I thought I had it kicked, but alas, it appears that I am in fact doomed to live forever.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LeSwordfish View Post
    I've restrained myself from saying this several times but I really can't any more: with this attitude, are you sure it's GW that's killing your local community? Nothing else you can think of?
    Hold on, when did I say OUR community is dying? Its never been stronger :s. Matter of fact, we've got an AoS tournament this weekend and its so packed between that and 40k that it ran out the MTG people. Plus, we're going strong on our second location at a different city, with people coming out of their Kill Team campaign around christmas and starting 750 and 1000 points games of 40k in the summer.

    What makes the growth hard is the pricing. Plenty of people want to play, but proxying and lending only go so far. Its why we dont do WYSIWYG, because nobody can afford another whole box just for a couple of weapon bits. Also why, while it sucks money away from business, we turn a blind eye to orders from recasters, because 1/4 basic salary for a single HQ is insane. Current culture is pretty cool, but I guess you'd have to have been brought up in it or it may seem 'toxic'. For example, we just had a 12 people lunch for one of the 'new' players (1.5 years playing by now, but started with 8th and the store) who is going away to the US to work for the summer. The same people who keep making fun of how he rolls strings of 1 at a time or how 1k Sons smite spam is pure cheese or how he is whipped because his mom keeps making him drop games to go pick up his sisters put together a going away celebration and spent all day remembering all the clutch plays and funny times with the guy. End of college and start of work life often creates rifts that never close, so it was important for all of us. But sure, its a 'dying community' full of 'toxic' people.
    Last edited by LansXero; 2019-11-29 at 06:50 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LansXero View Post
    What makes the growth hard is the pricing...
    What I've found, is that it's not the telling of 'get good' that puts people off. It's the inability to get good, that puts people off. I've said it time and time again; Losing isn't what makes losers feel bad.

    Ever tried telling a Necrons' player to get good? They can't. Unlike Grey Knights, there's not even any Allies to choose from. Once you have all the units you want out of your Necron Codex, that's it, you're done. If you're not good by then, you may as well change Faction. Don't want to change Faction? Well, looks like you're gonna quit, unless people in your meta deliberately cater to you and only you.

    Ever tried telling a Space Marine player who has decided 'No Primaris Marines' ('cause that lets them use the same models that they've been using for 10 years, and what they really mean is 'I'm not buying new models') to get good? They can't. GW is slowly nerfing out small!Marines, and buffing in Big Bois. If you want to get good at Space Marines, buy new models (i.e; Ow my business model!).

    A conversation should look like this:

    Get Good!
    "...How?"
    Well, you may have noticed that basically everyone outside the competitive cancer scene, plays Maelstrom. Which means that any net-list you've pulled from an ITC tournament is inherently flawed. You can't just castle up and win games. You actually have to move around the board, and build an army that can claim board control, and using a play-style that doesn't involve sitting in a corner of the board for three turns and rely on racking 12 Kill Points on Turn 1...'Cause in Maelstrom, that's not a thing.
    "Ohhh...Now I get it."

    As opposed to...

    Get Good!
    "Well I have no intention of self-improvement, it's you who should cater to me, always. Even when I build a poor army, and even when I make stupid mistakes like sending a Phobos Captain into Melee and trying to pretend it's just as good as a Smash Captain, you still have cater for my mistakes and, I dunno...Just let me make mistakes and make it so I can win games!"
    Uhh...Why would I not capitalise on your mistakes and get a basically free Warlord kill? (Regardless of our respective army lists, running a Phobos Captain into Melee is simply a mistake something a Bad would do)
    "Reeeee...."

    So, yeah.
    "I spent all this money on these models, and they suck and there's nothing I can do about it." is what makes people quit in my experience.
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