Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXIX: Miracle on 39th Thread

[Forum Explorer]

I was browsing through the Space Marine codex to get an idea of what the different armies are like, and I'm really curious how SM players cope with all the different options available. I count eighteen different HQ options and twenty-three different Elites, for instance. How do you evaluate that many different alternatives?

For new players? They likely read the fluff and choose based off of that, or come to sites like this to ask about the different options. More experienced players can often just figure it out by reading the stat-block and looking at the point cost.

[IthilanorStPete]

Thanks for all your responses. Let's say I'm approaching the game from a competitive standpoint (not too concerned with the fluff/theming/availability), and I want to try and develop the intuition experienced players use to evaluate units based on the stat blocks/points. What criteria and heuristics are generally used?

[LansXero]

Experience. More experienced players have experience. You cant just parse and math-hammer an statblock and end up with a winning list, because dice are fickle and stratagems on both sides of the table can shift the battle dramatically.

You start with format: ITC, Maelstrom, Schemes of War, Eternal? Whats good = what wins, and format defines what 'winning' means. Also rules on LoS and terrain affect how units perform. Even timed vs not timed makes a large difference, as hordes are suicide in timed matches.

From there you move on to factions in the meta. During Knight meta, you either wound T8 or dont come. Then it shifted to all-the-negs-to-hit. Then its all-marines-meta. Got to figure out what the playing field will be like, and have tools and answers for the most common threats. A "Take All Comers" list isnt an actual list that can dunk on all comers; its built to have an answer for most common threats. You can always have the random off-meta list out of nowhere slam you with something you weren't prepared for (like how my winning streak got murdered by AdMech ft. Deathwatch, of all things).

Now its time to compare potential answers. Knight killers are devastators, invictors, dreads, centurions. What fits better in your detachments, what has better sinergy with a given subfaction or stratagem or relic or unique HQ. What can perform a secondary role if threat 1 doesnt show up. Then you get to point costs, shots per point, etc.

Of course, trying to datasheet this whole mess would end up with a bloated mess that still wont make you any better at actually playing because you dont have an organic decision tree lodged on the back of your mind, you just have reams of numbers. Thats why experience matters, to parse those things and filter them down so they become more instinctive without having to consult charts and graphs at every turn.

[Forum Explorer]

Thanks for all your responses. Let's say I'm approaching the game from a competitive standpoint (not too concerned with the fluff/theming/availability), and I want to try and develop the intuition experienced players use to evaluate units based on the stat blocks/points. What criteria and heuristics are generally used?

Cheesegear wrote up a really good list of things a units needs to be good once. It was something like this;

Is it 8 points or less?
Is it T5 or better?
Does it have a 5++ or better?
Does it ignore damage on a 5+ or better?
Do they have 2 or more wounds?
Can it make a first turn charge?
Can it reliably deal mortal wounds?
Is it AP-2 or better?
Is it -1 to hit?
Is it S6 or better?
Does it do multi-damage?
Can it fall back and shoot/charge?

For a unit to be good, it has to say yes to at least one thing. And the more points it hits, the better. It gets a little more complicated when it comes to tanks and characters, since they hit a lot of those points, but not every tank or character is good, but it makes for a good starting point.

EDIT: Of course, the biggest kicker is points. Something can hit a bunch of those categories, but still be costed so highly it just isn't worth it. Like Custodes.

[Cheesegear]

How do you evaluate that many different alternatives?

Hard. Logcial. Mathhammer.

First, you have to evaluate the rules of the game itself, and more specifically, the Win Conditions (WinCons). Most people already did that at the beginning of the edition, and every time a Chapter Approved comes out; "Have the WinCons changed?" ...You can see that play out with Chapter Approved '20 moving to a Maelstrom format when you're allowed to remove all of the Objective-based cards half the deck.

Now you have the Objectives of the game. For most games, it's a combination of Kill Points and Objectives:
Can a unit help you win the game? Would it contribute to you losing games?

Can a unit hold an Objective? If not, it's bad.
Can a unit take an Objective? If not, it's bad.
Can a unit kill other units? If not, it's bad.
Can a unit not be killed? If not, it's bad.

Each of those four questions has many variable for how you answer 'Yes' or 'No'. Forum Explorer already went over it. Mathhammer gives trends, and those trends I've listed before. I don't believe that if a unit isn't the best, then it's unplayable. So I made a list of what makes a playable unit. From those trends, you can easily spot things at a glace.

How do [Space Marine players] evaluate that many different alternatives?

Well, you try and sell the majority of your old army on the internet.
Whatever doesn't sell, is bad.

Also,
S4, AP- (dash) is trash.
It rhymes so you know it's true.

[Wraith]

Today is Warhammer Preview Day #3. Let's see what's cooking....

40k - Limited Edition minis coming to Made To Order
Because various events have had to be cancelled, GW are making their intended "event exclusive" models go to Made to Order instead, so if you were planning to go to AdeptiCon then you don't have to miss out.

The Terminator Librarian isn't anything special. He's got a wrist-mounted stormboltor which is really the only remarkable thing about him.
Sister Palos on the other hand is pretty cool - she's modelled on the cover art for the previous Codex: Sisters of Battle, which was a) a really nice piece of art and b) the first Codex front cover to have been painted by a lady, so GW are coming full-circle with their inclusivity for SoBs. A nice touch I think, and quite a nice model too - the likeness is very close to the painting, which is an impressive touch.
...Why they couldn't have done this for other event exclusive models - even say, 9 months after the event or something, to give people a reason to buy them on the day - and make more of the fanbase happy/sell more stuff, I couldn't tell ya.

Even so, pre-order within the next 2 weeks and you'll get a priority order when the factory reopens in a few weeks. THIS is the sort of thing GW should be doing - it's going to be weeks after reopening until they get any "new" stuff ready for production, so get the machines up and running ASAP using older moulds for stuff that you haven't sold before! Finally, some cunning from the marketing department!

Animation - Hammer & Boltor Episode 2
Apparently GW have an ongoing animated series that isn't Angels of Death, using traditional media rather than 3D animation? Okay, fair enough. Kept that a bit quiet, but it doesn't look bad I guess.

40k - Szeras announced as the antagonist of PA: Pariah
New model for Szeras, but like Fabius Bile previously it looks more or less like the same model, just remade to the modern scale and with a few cosmetic tweaks, rather than a brand new model, or pose, or anything. An Inquisitor has been named as being a character also in PA, so it's starting to look like Inquisition/Deathwatch vs. Necrons as we suspected earlier.

Horus Heresy - Saul Tarvitz.
....So... Another Space Marine Captain, from a book series in which he died quite conclusively neary 10 years ago, in a game that isn't popular, for a faction that can't be transposed over to 40k. I don't understand who they are expecting to buy this thing.

Blood Bowl - Snotling Team
Jesus. H. ****ing. Christ. WHY!? Where are Amazons, or Chaos Dwarfs, or Norse!? Where are the Star Players and the cheerleaders and the new variety of pitches!? WHY do they keep crapping out the horrible joke teams that no one wants!? "But Wraith, they have brought back the Snotling Pump-Wagon from years ag-" I DO NOT CARE.

...The answer is, "Because they're going to rerelease Blood Bowl in the summer to coincide with the launch of the BB3 video game, so they're literally just killing time and squeezing us for what little money they can get until they try to sell us Humans and Orcs again".

Warcry - Khainite Shadowstalkers (Dark/Shadow Aelves)
...Okay, these guys look pretty cool. I haven't played the game much, BUT so far these are the warband that I like the look of the most.

Age of Sigmar - Lumineth Aelves
Preview of a single Aelf "Wizard". Interesting sculpt, but frankly very underwhelming compared to the battle box which was announced last time.

Blackstone Fortress - Ascension
The "last" expansion for Blackstone Fortress, which ends the story and throws some seriously horrible enemies at the party. I really liked Blackstone Fortress and Silver Tower, they're good games and have a lot of wonderful models in them and it's a shame that they have flown so far under the radar. Hopefully it's something they will revisit in the future, but it's quite unusual for GW to actively "end" a game with a plot rather than just stop making it.

Age of Sigmar - Gargants reveal
Three Gargant models have been shown, and they look like.... tall humans. They're bigger than the existing giants by about +50%, but... they're tall humans dressed in rags and other shabby bits and pieces. I renew my suggestion that if you want an AoS equivalent to Imperial Knights.... why not do something really cool like Dragons or Monsters at the same scale?

[Cheesegear]

The Terminator Librarian isn't anything special. He's got a wrist-mounted stormboltor which is really the only remarkable thing about him.

What's remarkable is that Grey Knights and Deathwatch need customisable Librarians. Especially 'cause Grey Knights are really, really good now, and are literally the only Codex that still uses Terminators.

40k - Szeras announced as the antagonist of PA: Pariah
New model for Szeras, but like Fabius Bile previously it looks more or less like the same model, just remade to the modern scale and with a few cosmetic tweaks, rather than a brand new model, or pose, or anything. An Inquisitor has been named as being a character also in PA, so it's starting to look like Inquisition/Deathwatch vs. Necrons as we suspected earlier.

Looks dope.

Horus Heresy - Saul Tarvitz.
....So... Another Space Marine Captain, from a book series in which he died quite conclusively neary 10 years ago, in a game that isn't popular, for a faction that can't be transposed over to 40k. I don't understand who they are expecting to buy this thing.

IT'S MY BOI!!! Okay, you got me. He's like...#5 on my list.

As a Space Marine player who loves trawling 30K for models I can use to flex on my opponents who don't have those models...Unlike Eidolon (Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer), Saul Tarvitz is not a model I can use. And if I was going to use that model for something (i.e; Dude with Sword), I already have the Sigismund model, which looks awesome. And I have Garro, too (My #3 Boi)!

I can't see a reason to put Tarvitz model on the board. 'Marines with Swords' are so far out of the meta I don't know where to begin.
I can't see a reason to put Tarvitz on my shelf next to Sigismund and Garro, who are much, much, much better models.
(Now just give me a Keeler model so I pretend that Garro and Sigismund are fighting on the moon...Yes, that happened.)

Blood Bowl - Snotling Team

Meme Teams. That's what the community is asking for.

Warcry - Khainite Shadowstalkers (Dark/Shadow Aelves)
...Okay, these guys look pretty cool. I haven't played the game much, BUT so far these are the warband that I like the look of the most.

They don't look WarCry at all. Design fail.
They do look like every Drukharii player in the world is going to pick them up. Design win.

Age of Sigmar - Lumineth Aelves
Preview of a single Aelf "Wizard". Interesting sculpt, but frankly very underwhelming compared to the battle box which was announced last time.

Still doesn't even look as good as the old High Elf Wizard.

Blackstone Fortress - Ascension
The "last" expansion for Blackstone Fortress, which ends the story and throws some seriously horrible enemies at the party. I really liked Blackstone Fortress and Silver Tower, they're good games and have a lot of wonderful models in them and it's a shame that they have flown so far under the radar. Hopefully it's something they will revisit in the future, but it's quite unusual for GW to actively "end" a game with a plot rather than just stop making it.

I'm quite sad that this is the end for BSF. Still, for GW games it's had way more support than Silver Tower ever had.
(Maybe 'cause it's a better game that people actually liked and played)

Age of Sigmar - Gargants reveal
Three Gargant models have been shown [...] why not do something really cool like Dragons or Monsters at the same scale?

I put it bold because you didn't. Gives it a sense of anger. And God damn it GW, JUST GIVE ME DRAGONS (that aren't directly tied to playing Anvilgard).

I mean. I love my Two-Headed Griffon.
But...
I mean...
Come on...
Dragons.

[LeSwordfish]

I love the look of the inquisitor - hopefully the new inquisition rules don't mess too much with their White Dwarf ruleset, which was probably as good as we were going to get.

[Renegade Paladin]

I love the look of the inquisitor - hopefully the new inquisition rules don't mess too much with their White Dwarf ruleset, which was probably as good as we were going to get.

If it follows the pattern of previous entries in Psychic Awakening, it's going to add on to that ruleset, not replace it. Which means needing to own the damned out of print magazine to use the book, but whatever.

[IthilanorStPete]

What's remarkable is that Grey Knights and Deathwatch need customisable Librarians. Especially 'cause Grey Knights are really, really good now, and are literally the only Codex that still uses Terminators.

Wait, when did Grey Knights become good? The sense I got from reading through this thread and past threads was that they weren't exactly great. Is it just due to a shift in the meta or something?

[LeSwordfish]

At a guess, getting Bolter Drill and Shock Assault for free was really good for an army of rapid-fire bolt weapons and melee weapons.

[Forum Explorer]

Wait, when did Grey Knights become good? The sense I got from reading through this thread and past threads was that they weren't exactly great. Is it just due to a shift in the meta or something?

The Psychic Awakening was very generous to Grey Knights. Simply doubling the damage from their smite alone would be massive, but they also got some pretty nice stratagems that helped with their weaknesses.

[Wraith]

Meme Teams. That's what the community is asking for.

This is the exact opposite of my experience with the Blood Bowl community. Everyone I've asked and played against generally agrees that they want: a) the 16 core teams, b) the 8 novelty teams from the video game and c) Kislev, Bretonnian and Khorne Daemons to be made into a real thing, in that order. Those last three are the only meme teams anyone has ever mentioned, and even Kislev is 50/50 between that and "they should bring back Slann".

Nobody - NOBODY - wants Goblins, Halflings or Snotlings before they have Necromantic, Chaos Dwarf or Amazons.

Still doesn't even look as good as the old High Elf Wizard.

Agreed. It's interesting, and technically impressive, but it's not great.

I'm quite sad that this is the end for BSF. Still, for GW games it's had way more support than Silver Tower ever had.

Have to admit of the two, I very slightly preferred Silver Tower. Probably because the first thing they did was release a whole bunch of different characters to play with, which let me play it more like D&D and I could "roleplay" with "my" character however I wanted, whereas BSF felt more like a more linear, tactical game.

Then again, dumping all of their characters in one go was also probably what killed it. Who needs to write and sell expansions when everyone already has the rules they want, and can rep the model for it using their favourite model from their collection? Such a waste.

I put it bold because you didn't. Gives it a sense of anger. And God damn it GW, JUST GIVE ME DRAGONS (that aren't directly tied to playing Anvilgard).

I mean, it doesn't even have to be Dragons per say. AoS is a new IP with an entire universe nearly completely unexplored - the "Knights" faction could be nearly anything so long as it's Big.
Dragons? Sure; a Younger and an Elder of each 'flavour' of magic so you have the full spectrum like Chromatic/Metallic Dragons from D&D. Or maybe you have Elementals or Primordials for each of the Planes, like a giant man made of Fire/Lava from Aqshy, or Swamp Thing from Ghyran, or a big glowing Angel from Hysh. Hell, make something completely different from the space between the planes and do enormous CThulian Star-Spawn, it'd be like the Eldrazi coming over and kicking down Sigmar's front door.

Just... Anything, apart from "tall humans"?

[IthilanorStPete]

At a guess, getting Bolter Drill and Shock Assault for free was really good for an army of rapid-fire bolt weapons and melee weapons.

The Psychic Awakening was very generous to Grey Knights. Simply doubling the damage from their smite alone would be massive, but they also got some pretty nice stratagems that helped with their weaknesses.

Gotcha, thanks. Forgot about looking in the Psychic Awakening rules as well as the codex.

[LansXero]

So, whats good in 30k? Since a friend has all the books and we're not reopening the store anytime soon, people are trying random stuff because proxies make everything possible. So with no model limitation in mind (maybe no-Primarchs as a rule at most) whats the best stuff in 30k?

[Blackhawk748]

Sister Palos on the other hand is pretty cool - she's modelled on the cover art for the previous Codex: Sisters of Battle, which was a) a really nice piece of art and b) the first Codex front cover to have been painted by a lady, so GW are coming full-circle with their inclusivity for SoBs. A nice touch I think, and quite a nice model too - the likeness is very close to the painting, which is an impressive touch.

Oh, THAT cover. Ya, she looks nice. Shame that I have no idea what to DO with her as she's really just a generic Battle Sister with a cool pose, but at least she looks good.

[Don Qui Ho Tep]

I really like both the exclusive miniatures, but I don't see the point in spending $35 on each model, neither of which are for a force I collect. I could see paying $35 if they were 54 mm scale.

Saul Tarvitz is fine. I always liked his character but pictured him with shorter hair.

My group probably won't get through Blackstone Fortress for a while (even after this all settles down), but I am glad that I'll have that option as an expansion when we get to it.

Comments on Age of Sigmar figures will go in the Age of Sigmar thread, but I gotta say, I think that all things considered, 40k players have a lot more to be happy about out of these past three reveals.

[Requizen]

Today is Warhammer Preview Day #3.

Animation - Hammer & Boltor Episode 2
Apparently GW have an ongoing animated series that isn't Angels of Death, using traditional media rather than 3D animation? Okay, fair enough. Kept that a bit quiet, but it doesn't look bad I guess.

I'm pretty interested in all of them but I like this animation style quite a bit. Hopefully it'll look good in motion and not markedly worse, but we'll see.

40k - Szeras announced as the antagonist of PA: Pariah
New model for Szeras, but like Fabius Bile previously it looks more or less like the same model, just remade to the modern scale and with a few cosmetic tweaks, rather than a brand new model, or pose, or anything. An Inquisitor has been named as being a character also in PA, so it's starting to look like Inquisition/Deathwatch vs. Necrons as we suspected earlier.

Oh hey look, finally a new Necron model. And it's a named Character, and not even one of the more interesting ones. So... yay?

Seriously, of the named Cron HQs, Szeras is equal to Anrakyr in how little interest they hold for me. The model is cool, but I can't say I'm super interested in the story.

Horus Heresy - Saul Tarvitz.
....So... Another Space Marine Captain, from a book series in which he died quite conclusively neary 10 years ago, in a game that isn't popular, for a faction that can't be transposed over to 40k. I don't understand who they are expecting to buy this thing.

It's a cool model. People who play Loyalist Emperor's Children or want to make a diorama of Isstvan III will be excited. That's about it, I think.

Blood Bowl - Snotling Team
Jesus. H. ****ing. Christ. WHY!? Where are Amazons, or Chaos Dwarfs, or Norse!? Where are the Star Players and the cheerleaders and the new variety of pitches!? WHY do they keep crapping out the horrible joke teams that no one wants!? "But Wraith, they have brought back the Snotling Pump-Wagon from years ag-" I DO NOT CARE.

...The answer is, "Because they're going to rerelease Blood Bowl in the summer to coincide with the launch of the BB3 video game, so they're literally just killing time and squeezing us for what little money they can get until they try to sell us Humans and Orcs again".

I actually like the team visually. It looks fun and wacky as Blood Bowl is. I do have to say I'm surprised they launched a new team (and a meme team at that) before finishing even the "legit" teams or the legacy stuff like Slann. They'll sell like hotcakes, though, because there's a huge BB community for stunty teams.

I wonder if this has to do with the huge 3rd party Blood Bowl model scene out there. Why make Amazons or Khemri or Chorfs when people are already getting models off Kickstarter? Dunno how much GW cares about that but it's worth a thought.

Warcry - Khainite Shadowstalkers (Dark/Shadow Aelves)
...Okay, these guys look pretty cool. I haven't played the game much, BUT so far these are the warband that I like the look of the most.

I love it. We're going to see bespoke teams for non-Chaos factions, which is super interesting as I feel that these teams give a cool look into more of the world of AoS other than the giant battles. Like yeah, you can use Daughters of Khaine in Warcry, but not every Khainite fighter is participating in these big battles normally, so seeing these skirmishers is cool.

If we see a big range of Order Warcry 'bands, maybe stuff like a Dispossessed team from Chamon, or a Kurnothi team from Ghyran, I'll be super broke but happy.

Blackstone Fortress - Ascension
The "last" expansion for Blackstone Fortress, which ends the story and throws some seriously horrible enemies at the party. I really liked Blackstone Fortress and Silver Tower, they're good games and have a lot of wonderful models in them and it's a shame that they have flown so far under the radar. Hopefully it's something they will revisit in the future, but it's quite unusual for GW to actively "end" a game with a plot rather than just stop making it.

I've only played once since I don't have a group, but once I get painted I'm thinking I'll just play single player for the "story" and to justify owning this ****-expensive box set. It's a cool board game, though, I just wish I could convince more people of that fact.

Age of Sigmar - Gargants reveal
Three Gargant models have been shown, and they look like.... tall humans. They're bigger than the existing giants by about +50%, but... they're tall humans dressed in rags and other shabby bits and pieces. I renew my suggestion that if you want an AoS equivalent to Imperial Knights.... why not do something really cool like Dragons or Monsters at the same scale?

They're definitely not for me either. I think the models look great, the detail is pretty ace, and the amount of bits will be crazy, but... was anyone really chomping at the bit to play mono-Gargants? Destruction already has a solo-monster faction in the Beastclaw side of Ogor Mawtribes, and I think those big beasties look way cooler than the Gargants. They're cool, I'm not mad about it, but it's a pretty hard pass for me.

[Cheesegear]

So, whats good in 30k? Since a friend has all the books and we're not reopening the store anytime soon, people are trying random stuff because proxies make everything possible. So with no model limitation in mind (maybe no-Primarchs as a rule at most) whats the best stuff in 30k?

30K is more or less dead where I am. Nobody's interested. Nobody's buying the books. People - including myself - are only buying the Character models at this point to use in 40K. That being said, as I mentioned before, there's no place for Saul Tarvitz in any modern Marine player's army. There's definitely room for Eidolon's model, with the Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer...Hand swap for a Storm Shield and you're golden.

(I wish there was Luna Wolf Garviel Loken, so I could represent Sigismund, Garro and Loken during the Siege of Terra. Ahhh...It's so cool. Despite being a Knight-Errant, Loken puts on his Luna Wolf armour for the final battle. **** you, Sons of Horus. Loken remembers.)

I checked out on Book 4, after Book 3 broke the game. My friend got Book 5 because it has Ultramarines in it (and then it was like, remember when Book 3 broke the game? Yeah. We're doing it again!). But that's the extent of my knowledge, and I haven't even touched a 30K book in years. So even if you asked me what Phalanx Warders and Templar Brethren do, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, and that's the Legion I played.
Even Book 6 with the Shattered Legions and Blackshields, is exactly what I want to know about...Except I don't care enough to buy the book, so I didn't.

So, yeah. I'd point to towards a dedicated 30K forum where that **** is talked about regularly, and up-to-dately (?), but I literally don't know if one exists, because I don't care, so I haven't looked.

My guess is that you're gonna have to pull up an Excel Spreadsheet and do the mathhammer yourself.

[Avaris]

So, whats good in 30k? Since a friend has all the books and we're not reopening the store anytime soon, people are trying random stuff because proxies make everything possible. So with no model limitation in mind (maybe no-Primarchs as a rule at most) whats the best stuff in 30k?

Goonhammer has an ongoing series of articles about it, which would probably be a good place to start. They’re going through esch of the legions for an in depth look at their rules, so pick a legion or two you’re interested in and have a look! https://www.goonhammer.com/category/...warhammer-30k/

[bluntpencil]

40k - Szeras announced as the antagonist of PA: Pariah
New model for Szeras, but like Fabius Bile previously it looks more or less like the same model, just remade to the modern scale and with a few cosmetic tweaks, rather than a brand new model, or pose, or anything. An Inquisitor has been named as being a character also in PA, so it's starting to look like Inquisition/Deathwatch vs. Necrons as we suspected earlier.

It won't be Deathwatch, unfortunately.

I was hoping we'd get a Harlequins vs. Necrons vs. Deathwatch War in the Webway book... but instead we get Deathwatch and Harlequins in White Dwarf.

The Deathwatch Psychic Awakening is completely awful. It grants 14 Stratagems out of Codex: Space Marines (one of which - Adaptive Strategy - will be immediately deleted), the Litanies from Codex: Space Marines, Doctrines from Codex: Space Marines (without the recent update, so expect immediate errata), and some extra equipment options for Intercessor Sergeants from Codex: Space Marines.

This could have, and should have, been in an FAQ instead of expecting cash money from players.

Hell, I could think of some really characterful stratagems for Deathwatch, but there you go.

Instead, it's going to be Sisters and Inquisition up against Necrons. Fine, I guess.

[lord_khaine]

Since i finally got a camera, then i though i would share this evidence of that i did in fact once play the game

Back in the early days, there were a lack of a C'tan model, so conversions had to be made.

Spoiler: C'tan

Show

[IMG][/IMG]

[Cheesegear]

So, I want to paint up my Infiltrators (I have three Vanguard SC! boxes, and definitely not because Eliminators were sold out forever and that was the only way to get 'em)

Has anyone got experience in painting non-jungle camo?

...Specifically, this (urban winter camo)?

Spoiler:

Show

I'm guessing:
Abaddon Black
Mechanicus Standard Grey
Dawnstone (?)
Ulthran Grey/Corax White?

[Blackhawk748]

So, I want to paint up my Infiltrators (I have three Vanguard SC! boxes, and definitely not because Eliminators were sold out forever and that was the only way to get 'em)

Has anyone got experience in painting non-jungle camo?

...Specifically, this (urban winter camo)?

Spoiler:

Show

I'm guessing:
Abaddon Black
Mechanicus Standard Grey
Dawnstone (?)
Ulthran Grey/Corax White?

Those sound right for color choices, but if you're going with that particular pattern you'd want the white first as it's the most prevalent. from there you put the other colors on with a very small brush.

[Lord Torath]

Earlier I mentioned I was working on my Fire Dragons. Feeling somewhat uninspired, I started work on my Warp Spiders instead. I decided to try to base them on this image of an Australian huntsman: (Spider image warning!) EOL Hunstman Spiders.

Spoiler: Here's what I've currently come up with:

Show

Thoughts? Does it look decent? Should I scrap it and start over?

[9mm]

So, I want to paint up my Infiltrators (I have three Vanguard SC! boxes, and definitely not because Eliminators were sold out forever and that was the only way to get 'em)

Has anyone got experience in painting non-jungle camo?

...Specifically, this (urban winter camo)?

Spoiler:

Show

I'm guessing:
Abaddon Black
Mechanicus Standard Grey
Dawnstone (?)
Ulthran Grey/Corax White?

when I took the camo class at NOVA they used mechanicus Standard Grey, Dawnstone, and Abaddon Black. If you want a full Dudley Boys theme I'd add a white.

[Squark]

They don't look WarCry at all. Design fail.
They do look like every Drukharii player in the world is going to pick them up. Design win.

While they don't fit the chaos aesthetic, I am estatic that GW is doing non-Chaos Warbands as opposed to the card packs, which stick a bunch of models into the game which frankly, do not belong there.

I don't get what the warcry team is doing with the card packs. They made an awesome melee skirmish game with borderline parkour levels of mobility(You can actually Wall jump or wall run!), created a bunch of dedicated chaos warbands who play well with that system... and then shoveled in a bunch of non-chaos dudes with ranged attacks and fliers. *headdesk*.

So while these particular Aelves may not look like they spend all their time in eightpoints, ignoring the lovely movement system or spamming bows... *checks* ... there's a guy with dual crossbows. Great. Well, hopefully they keep his range low to force him to actually skirmish, instead of just camping in a fortified position.

[bluntpencil]

I've been in isolation, working on my Tallarns (waiting for some legs to come out of a friend's 3D printer for my 3rd party infantry, though, and new turrets for my old tanks).

It's coming up to form a fluffy list, looking like this:

Spoiler: Tallarn 72nd Armoured - 3rd Company

Show

Spearhead
- - - -
Emperor's Fist Tank Company


Tank Commander
-Lascannon, Plasma Cannons, Storm Bolter, Hammer of Sunderance, Hunter Killer Missile
-Tank Ace (Weapon Expert)
-Force Commander (Unflinching Resolve)

Leman Russes
-Demolisher
--3 Heavy Bolters
-Demolisher
--3 Heavy Bolters
-Punisher
--Storm Bolter, Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolters


Leman Russes
-Demolisher
--3 Heavy Bolters
-Demolisher
--3 Heavy Bolters
-Punisher
--Storm Bolter, Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolters


Leman Russes
-Demolisher
--3 Heavy Bolters
-Demolisher
--3 Heavy Bolters
-Punisher
--Storm Bolter, Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolters

==

Batallion
- - - - -
Lord Commissar
-Power Sword, Plasma Pistol
-Master of Command

Aradia Madellan


Infantry Squad
-Plasma Pistol, Vox Caster

Infantry Squad
-Plasma Pistol, Vox Caster

Infantry Squad
-Plasma Pistol, Vox Caster

===

Vanguard

- - - - -
Company Commander Signal Lieutenant
-Plasma Pistol, Power Sword (Al'Rahem mini!)

Master of Ordnance

Special Weapons Squad
-3 Plasma Guns

Command Squad
-Vox Caster, Medic

Okay, so I'm not really looking on list advice (beyond minor tinkering) - as I'm happy with how it's looking as a Tank Company, with an attached Signals Platoon (hence the oft-ignored Vox-Casters and Master of Ordnance).

I'm more looking for advice on how to use it. The infantry, such as they are, will screen the tanks, as best as they are able. Everything needs to move forward quickly on Turn One, to get the big guns into range, probably leaving a token force in my DZ with my Tank Commander.

Any thoughts?

[Wraith]

Thoughts? Does it look decent? Should I scrap it and start over?

I really like the idea that they're based on real spider colours, that's a neat touch.

My only suggestion would be to paint the deathspinner a different colour to make it stand out a little - at the moment it's the same red as the armour and the bottom layer of the 'shell' and without highlights it looks a bit flat kind of like you did the basecoat and then stopped. Maybe white, to match the helmets? Or maybe a pale brown/cream like the spider's mandibles, so the Warp Spider's weapon is the same as the real spider's "weapons"?

While they don't fit the chaos aesthetic, I am estatic that GW is doing non-Chaos Warbands as opposed to the card packs, which stick a bunch of models into the game which frankly, do not belong there.

I fully agree. Maybe it's a weird thing to say for a 40k Tzeentch/veteran Mordheim player, but I don't really like the "Chaos" aesthetic of just ripped guys with no shirts on and bloody meat and/or spiky crap bolted everywhere.
The ones I like best are the ones who look as different to that as possible - the Cypher Lords and kind of the Splintered Fang - so the non-Chaos races are also very welcome. Plus I just really like the snake-lady, she looks awesome even in a vacuum.

[LeSwordfish]

How does one reload when dual-wielding crossbows anyway? Does he get two shots and then have to put one down to reload the other? Does he do the Reaper-from-Overwatch thing of just chucking them on the ground and drawing a new pair?