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Thread: Corporate WW IC

  1. - Top - End - #181
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Why are the Proxy claimants unwise scry targets, Grek? I wanna hear your reasoning on this, because I've come to the opposite conclusion.
    Because you don't know whether "No result" is because the Proxy is hiding, or for some other reason. Although... there's basically no reason why the proxy would ever want to hide, because the Gambler is I think literally the only person who has a power you might want to avoid other than a NK.

    So if you're the proxy, don't hide and everything will be okay.

    Oh and by the way vote The Outsider for dead 2019.

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Because you don't know whether "No result" is because the Proxy is hiding, or for some other reason.
    Such as?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I suppose I should clarify on that question: there are two ways to get a "Failed Scry" result when scrying somebody: either that person is the Proxy, or more than one person scried that person in the night. Now, it's possible that last night, the Gambler guessed that town would lynch gac3...but if there's a wolf with enough foresight to predict what happened yesterday, town needs to just straight-up surrender now and save us all a week of embarassment. It's also possible that the Accountant targeted the IT Worker last night, and that tonight the IT worker will have a scry - but not only have both of the IT Worker claims I've received indicated they received no such power notification, but if the real IT Worker has a scry, they're probably in contact with the seer and so the scries won't overlap (unless the IT Worker just wants to screw over town, but nobody can predict that kinda spite). There's a third scenario, but it involves the experimental coder giving somebody a scry power (which they couldn't do on purpose), and that person using the scry they maybe-know they have on a Proxy, and even then it's a 50/50 chance they accidentally target the same Proxy claimant as the seer - and again, that's really easily remedied by just targeting the scry somewhere else instead of intentionally trying to trip up the seer.

    So if the Accountant scries one of the proxy claimants tonight, the only way for the Accountant to get "no result" is if that person is, in fact, the real Proxy. Unless I missed a method of getting "no result", so I guess my question is asking that: what "some other way" are you thinking of, where the Accountant could get a "no result" scry, but the person isn't actually the Proxy?
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Such as?
    It's easy to miss, but two scries on the same target will block each other. It's just above the "Worker roles" spoiler.

    Mind you, I'm not saying I agree with the assessment that scrying a proxy is a bad idea - especially since, like I said, the proxy has basically no reason to hide.

    EDIT IN RESPONSE TO NINJA EDIT: Yeah, I don't think that there's any real reason you shouldn't scry a proxy. I've tried to be clear about that.

    EDIT EDIT: I suppose if a wolf had a scry experiment package, they could try to trip up the seer by aiming for one of the proxies, which I'm pretty sure isn't a sentence anyone has ever said before. Still don't think it's likely.
    Last edited by Unavenger; 2019-12-08 at 05:26 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Here's the way I see things: If SYSADMIN doesn't kill off one of the double claims (and again, I believe they should resolve the Unavenger-Outsider "election"), the only kill that will happen is a wolf kill. Then, on the next day, the wolves will have ample time to sow chaos and confusion among the Town, increasing the odds that we waste more time, mis-lynch a villager, and allow the wolves to thin our numbers even more with another night kill. Stalling is not our friend in this scenario, not when we have the information available to act on. If SYSADMIN kills either myself or Unavenger, we are guaranteed a wolf death either tonight (if you kill Unavenger) or tomorrow (if you kill me).

    EDIT: I also agree with the "scry a proxy claim" course of action.
    Last edited by The Outsider; 2019-12-08 at 05:33 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    (and again, I believe they should resolve the Unavenger-Outsider "election")
    *Political commentator voice* So, Mr Outsider, concerns have been raised about your policy of being a lying wolf...

    Jokes aside, I do wonder if killing pairs is necessarily actually a winning strategy. If we nightkill one, wolves nightkill one, we lynch one, then we're losing two town per cycle, which we can technically afford to do still, but there's not a huge room for error.

    Mind you, I'm not sure what else we can do, so... yeah Sysadmin plz kill Outsider thamks. <3

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Everyone is free to do whatever they'd like to me tonight - because it will fail. I don't know if Grek is a spy or just false-claiming to protect their identity as an important worker, but /I am/ the proxy.

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    I think the Accountant shouldn't scry part of the duos, since one of them could easily be the Long-Term Plant. One wolf (not LPT) is dead; the three others include the LTP, and two of those three are part of the duos.

    So seems better to scry someone else in hopes of outting the last wolf, or confirming someone suspicious as Town, and let the SYSADMIN/lynches take care of the duos.

    As stated before, I strongly suggest the SYSADMIN kill one of the The Outsider/Unavenger pair. I stated my leaning earlier, but either way should help the town. We can still soak a kill as long as nothing very unlucky happens. I think we need the SYSADMIN to help us stay above the wolf night-kill rate.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Why are the Proxy claimants unwise scry targets, Grek? I wanna hear your reasoning on this, because I've come to the opposite conclusion.
    Because the alternative is scrying an IT Worker claim?

    With Proxy, you either find a wolf or find a town. With IT Worker, you either find a wolf or find a town and get a second scry next night. Admittedly, I hadn't considered the LTP angle that Jeen brings up.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Wow am I tired. I missed that a dual claim were made for Proxy.
    Yeah; scrying them sounds safe. Not too many ways to get a dual scry, especially given what our IT Worker(s) have said.

    I still think the SYSADMIN should kill a IT Worker-claim. But maybe the Accountant can settle the Proxy set-up.

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Wow am I tired. I missed that a dual claim were made for Proxy.
    Yeah, Grek and I have been a bit under the radar as we haven't been publicly accusing the other of being a spy. Hell, I didn't even notice Grek was claiming the same as me until people started calling me suspicious. Which leads me to believe that Grek may still be a worker - they just wish to protect their true role. Because if they were a spy you'd think they'd be trying to throw me under the bus and get me lynched.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Friendly reminder to get your night actions in- the night is about halfway over.
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Analysis of the Dual-Claims on Killing Dual-Claimers

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Here's the way I see things: If SYSADMIN doesn't kill off one of the double claims (and again, I believe they should resolve the Unavenger-Outsider "election"), the only kill that will happen is a wolf kill. Then, on the next day, the wolves will have ample time to sow chaos and confusion among the Town, increasing the odds that we waste more time, mis-lynch a villager, and allow the wolves to thin our numbers even more with another night kill. Stalling is not our friend in this scenario, not when we have the information available to act on. If SYSADMIN kills either myself or Unavenger, we are guaranteed a wolf death either tonight (if you kill Unavenger) or tomorrow (if you kill me).
    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Personally, I think that a delay in killing will only harm the Town at this point. Eliminating Unavenger (or me if you so desire) will help us clear things up quickly. If I'm Town and Unavenger is a wolf, we kill a wolf. If I'm a wolf and Unavenger is the IT worker, you have me as an easy hang. Clarity of action is the best thing one can have in games like these, so I strongly suggest we create some.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grek View Post
    So, we have the numbers to survive one Town-Vigging, but not enough to safely survive two. As long as the SYSADMIN is careful and the town uses its head, we should be fine even if we get a rotten string of luck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    I'd say the SYSADMIN shouldn't kill anyone tonight. Too much chance of hitting a townie and doing the wolves' job for them, and we don't need a wolf kill tonight to win. The longer the game goes on, the more chances the Accountant has to help us lynch the right people - especially because they now have a nice shortlist of people to check.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    [COLOR="#0000FF"]
    Jokes aside, I do wonder if killing pairs is necessarily actually a winning strategy. If we nightkill one, wolves nightkill one, we lynch one, then we're losing two town per cycle, which we can technically afford to do still, but there's not a huge room for error.
    Looking at how the members of each duo have responded (relevant posts copied above), I'm inclined to think that The Outsider and Grek are the Town. Also some vote-history reasons as noted earlier. But I think it is a viable if risky strategy to use the SYSADMIN, but not using the SYSADMIN could way too easily put the game into the wolves' hands.

    Elenna and Unavenger are pushing for no SYADMIN kills, at least essentially. (Yes, Unavenger said to kill The Outsider, but the two of them basically have to oppose each other to keep their claim valid. His post still gives urging towards no-kill and letting the lynches sort it out.)

    While Caerulea and YoshiCline have posted, I don't get a strong read either way from their posts, so none quoted above. YoshiCline's posts also feel a bit like a wolf not wanting to be too inactive.

    In conclusion, I think The Outsider, Caerulea, and Grek are the true claimants. So putting that out there for any weight to who we vote off first or who the SYSADMIN chooses to choose.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    It turns out Iíve spread some misinformation accidentally- the proxy is not immune to night kills. Iím sorry for any confusion this has caused-thatís what I get for not double checking.
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    While Caerulea and YoshiCline have posted, I don't get a strong read either way from their posts, so none quoted above. YoshiCline's posts also feel a bit like a wolf not wanting to be too inactive.
    I apologise for any apparent wolfish-ness but I would like to offer an alternative you haven't considered - I'm an IRL friend of BoP that got invited to their WW game and I'm now overwhelmed and woefully unprepared for the intensity of this game.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoshiCline View Post
    I apologise for any apparent wolfish-ness but I would like to offer an alternative you haven't considered - I'm an IRL friend of BoP that got invited to their WW game and I'm now overwhelmed and woefully unprepared for the intensity of this game.
    To you and any other new players: I do feel like this game has been a lot more intense than the previous handful I've been in. Maybe it's that I was wolf in two of those, and thus never got in the town networking. I'm a bit put off by the amount of QuickTopics and other stuff going on this game, though still participating and initiating them.

    I guess I'm saying that I don't think this level of intensity is normal. Though the games are just starting back on this forum, so hard to say what the new 'normal' will be. So I hope, if you enjoy the concept, you'd be willing to try another game as well.

  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Oh, I'm having a great time. I'm just very overwhelmed and just wanna try to avoid getting lynched. I think I just need a mentor or something, haha.

  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Well, of the three games I've participated in so far, I can definitely say this one has had the most curveballs and double claims. Then again, this is also the first one where I don't have to live to win, so it's honestly been something a relief.
    JeenLeen is right though- this one has been an oddity, so stick around. Personally, I blame AvatarVecna for having an effective strategy.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Outsider View Post
    Well, of the three games I've participated in so far, I can definitely say this one has had the most curveballs and double claims. Then again, this is also the first one where I don't have to live to win, so it's honestly been something a relief.
    JeenLeen is right though- this one has been an oddity, so stick around. Personally, I blame AvatarVecna for having an effective strategy.
    Normal games can be less interesting, and can be frustrating. "I don't know which of the ten people propositioning me are wolves" is a very different frustration from "I don't know which of these ten people are wolves because nobody's talking", and that's one I tend to have in games more often than not. What I'm doing is perhaps a bit...stressful for a first game, but it gives an idea of how lively WW can be when effort is going in to making things interesting. Look at all these weird powers! Look at these cheeky gambits going on! I started day 2 confident I had three of the four wolves pegged, and now I'm waffling on the two that haven't died! But I've also got suspicions narrowed down on another couple people, so that's great.

    Last game, getting people talking was like pulling teeth, but it was more relaxing because I knew that whichever side won, I would win too. But this game...oh man it's so much more intense when there's more than just your own life on the line.

    I'm hoping future games remain fun but perhaps a bit less intense so people can get into the groove of playing. I'm just happy to see so many new faces in all these games. God willing, one of these games the half-dozen or so veterans who waxed nostalgically about the way things used to be will actually join and play and we'll get a 20+ person game for once.
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    N2 is now over. Give me a few minutes to wrap everything up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Frantic emailing was rampant; there was such an interconnected web of communication that something was bound to snap. As it turns out, there were multiple severs. Not one, not three, but two users were locked out of the server when it tried to expel what it thought was redundant data.

    AvatarVecna and Unavenger were killed. They were the Contingency Planner and the Gambler, respectively.

    Day 3 starts now and ends in ~48h.
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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    *Cue my best Richard Nixon impression* "I am not a wolf!"

    Alright, let's keep this ball rolling with Elenna. Though if anyone can shed light on the dueling proxy claims I will gladly switch to one of them.
    Last edited by The Outsider; 2019-12-10 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Strike through vote

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    This is a message from AvatarVecna from beyond the grave. The person posting this for sure a townie, and has some of the information I've been posting to our private chat ever since this whole mess started. At some point after they post this, I will cast my vote; my vote does not indicate who I am suspicious of, it indicates which person claiming to be passing on a message from me is the one who is actually doing so, and thus which person can be trusted to form a town nexus around. They have access to some of my collected insights and information.

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    While I'm all for lynching Elenna, as she continues to be a lying wolf, I might propose an alternative. Lynch me. Specifically, nobody else votes, except for Elenna, and she votes for me. After all, if she's not lying she has nothing to fear, and if she is one wolf for one town is a good trade.
    Last edited by Caerulea; 2019-12-10 at 07:01 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #203
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    This is a message from AvatarVecna from beyond the grave. The person posting this for sure a townie, and has some of the information I've been posting to our private chat ever since this whole mess started. At some point after they post this, I will cast my vote; my vote does not indicate who I am suspicious of, it indicates which person claiming to be passing on a message from me is the one who is actually doing so, and thus which person has the collected timeline, QT links, suspicions, and various bits and sundry that's accumulated thus far.

  24. - Top - End - #204
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    We're good enough that I feel comfortable sharing my role, even if it means a likely demise. If they kill me, the SYSADMIN is safe, and that role is more important now.
    We know all 4 wolves now, or close enough: 2 dead, we're voting on the Retaliator today so their wolf-poser will die today or tonight, and then we kill the last duo-claim--and I can settle that now.

    YoshiCline is the true Proxy.
    I'm the Accountant. I scried him last night and got No Result. BoP had confirmed that a scry against the Proxy would yield no result. So either they really are the Proxy or someone got an additional scry somehow via Experimental Coder.

    I scried Xihirli Night 1; she's Town (or Long-Term Plant, but pretty sure Town.)

    ---

    Sorry to any in my network who are upset I'm revealing my role. Today and tomorrow are promising to be busy with relatively little internet time, so I haven't got long.

    I do want to survive the day, though, so I'll refrain from voting on the Retaliator set unless it becomes relevant.

  25. - Top - End - #205
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  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Quote Originally Posted by Grek View Post
    This is a message from AvatarVecna from beyond the grave. The person posting this for sure a townie, and has some of the information I've been posting to our private chat ever since this whole mess started. At some point after they post this, I will cast my vote; my vote does not indicate who I am suspicious of, it indicates which person claiming to be passing on a message from me is the one who is actually doing so, and thus which person can be trusted to form a town nexus around. They have access to some of my collected insights and information.
    Quote Originally Posted by PartyOfRouges View Post
    This is a message from AvatarVecna from beyond the grave. The person posting this for sure a townie, and has some of the information I've been posting to our private chat ever since this whole mess started. At some point after they post this, I will cast my vote; my vote does not indicate who I am suspicious of, it indicates which person claiming to be passing on a message from me is the one who is actually doing so, and thus which person has the collected timeline, QT links, suspicions, and various bits and sundry that's accumulated thus far.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    PartyOfRouges
    Well this looks to me like Vecna pulled a bit of a prank. Told two people to post that they were the trustworthy one, then singled out only one as trustworthy, revealing suspicions of Grek to us.
    For now Iím good aiming at the other proxy claimant, but a glance at Grek tonight is in order.
    Will vote once Iím off mobile.

    EDIT: Oh, would you look at that. Grek is the other Proxy claimant.
    Last edited by Xihirli; 2019-12-10 at 11:23 AM.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic View Post
    I'm good with eliminating Xihirli. I'm not sure how she has managed to live as long as she has.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceseer View Post
    I really wanted what Xihirli said to be true though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    That was a lot of awesome backstabbing.
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Right now I'm not 100% convinced that AV doesn't trust Grek, after all, they could only vote for one person, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't trust any of the other players, just that they don't trust them as much as Rouges.
    Willing to change that opinion if Rouges tells us otherwise.

    Caerulea, on the other hand, is a lying liar who lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caerulea View Post
    While I'm all for lynching Elenna, as she continues to be a lying wolf, I might propose an alternative. Lynch me. Specifically, nobody else votes, except for Elenna, and she votes for me. After all, if she's not lying she has nothing to fear, and if she is one wolf for one town is a good trade.
    Sure, sounds good to me. Although I can't help but point out that you don't suggest doing it the other way around...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ignore that last sentence, I brainfarted. This way around is fine with me
    I'm Chaotic Good! Ish!

  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Grek is the false proxy claimant, you say? Well well well. My apologies for casting suspicion on you, YoshiCline.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: Corporate WW IC

    Crafty move, AvatarVecna.

    Grek, you certainly had me fooled. I almost revealed my role to you via PM last night instead of another person, but fortunately you made a claim of Proxy and I avoided the duo-claims.

    I still lean that Elenna is probably wolf between her and Caerulea, but no very strong reasons and it seems safest to take out the not-maybe-retaliator first.

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Right now I'm not 100% convinced that AV doesn't trust Grek, after all, they could only vote for one person, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't trust any of the other players, just that they don't trust them as much as Rouges.
    Willing to change that opinion if Rouges tells us otherwise.

    Caerulea, on the other hand, is a lying liar who lies.



    Sure, sounds good to me. Although I can't help but point out that you don't suggest doing it the other way around...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ignore that last sentence, I brainfarted. This way around is fine with me
    Wouldn't AV have simply not instructed the other person to claim it was them who was the trusted member in that case?
    You look more like the lying liar who lies out of your lying lie-hole.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logic View Post
    I'm good with eliminating Xihirli. I'm not sure how she has managed to live as long as she has.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceseer View Post
    I really wanted what Xihirli said to be true though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    That was a lot of awesome backstabbing.
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

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