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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Hey, I'm flexible. If only white men can be villians, we can re-write the story with Phoebus as the villian. It keeps the "Don't judge a book by it's cover" theme; only now Phoebus is the villian with an evil soul in a beautiful body.

    Say he's secretly a warlock, and he wants Frollo's position & authority. He casts a charm spell on Esmeralda's scarf that makes Frollo mad with lust. His plan is that Frollo will do something horrible and be executed for it.

    Instead, Quasimodo discovers the plan, and during the big fight climax, Phoebus is crushed beneath a falling statue of the Blessed Mother that Esmeralda prays to earlier and Frollo is freed from his madness.

    Then Frollo discovers that Esmeralda is his long lost daughter. Frollo, Esmeralda, and Quasi hold hands and sing a trio to the setting sun about they now can live together happily ever after as father, daughter, and adopted son since all they ever wanted was a family to love.

    Then comes the witty 2019 fire joke?
    Last edited by Scarlet Knight; 2019-12-12 at 07:01 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Hey, I'm flexible. If only white men can be villians, we can re-write the story with Phoebus as the villian.
    That's not entirely what's going on here. Disney's first version already has strong elements of "the gypsies aren't all that bad (just some of them)", that is really hard to flip without making it "the gypsies are all that bad". It doesn't help they'd be using hell's magic either. It's not that a roma person can't be a villain or even the villain, it's that the film probably shouldn't portray all of them as evil.

    Imagine a movie that actually portrays the world view that all white men are evil, gathering in their white men clubs and openly talking about what kind of horribly hard to wear women's fashion they're going to invent this time. That would be a dumb movie, I agree. Now imagine that there is a big historical event still present in our collective consciousness (at least among adults) where people tried to gass all white men, justified by views like that, and there's still a marginal subculture alive today of which some members appear to think they were right. Now it becomes just uncomfortable to watch. Definitely not something the wholesome Disney brand would want to throw their name behind. It gets worse if this is the only big movie featuring white men that comes out over a several year period. Kids see this movie and then don't have any kind of contact with or information about white men for years. There are no counterexamples where they aren't all super evil. The combination is just not the best thing ever maybe.

    Your new rewrite fixes this of course (although it still leaves the issue that we're doing this to redeem a person who likes to burn people alive, not the greatest hobby ever), and I bet plenty of people have been rooting for underdog Quasimodo to "win the girl" (why do I feel like I just started another discussion) over the knight in literal shining armor stereotype. I'm not sure how I feel about it storywise. It might be a bit unfocused. The villain, the victim and the good guy viewpoint character all have some sort of dynamic going and then Quasimodo himself still needs to be forced into there somewhere. But maybe it's just my general dislike of too many remakes (at least before I see them, I almost always initially dislike the idea of a remake) talking here.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2019-12-13 at 02:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Man I actually respect the hell out of them for using "Reflection" as the trailer song rather than the obviously best song Be A Man
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    The bad guy had lines, not a ton, but he did. Wasnt he the one who sent off the two captured soldiers then casually asked his archer buddy how many people it takes to deliver a message? He was REALLY not very well explored as a character though, just basically made the face of the oncoming danger that had to be stopped. As for adding a witch, meh, I think that detracts a bit from the whole woman proving she can be equal to the men thing by turning the final battle into a cat fight. (or going by one of the scenes, a bird battle for the brits ) In fact, wasnt mulan one of the few disney films to not give the bad guy a song?
    Nah, a few lines delivered well work better. I mean, what says "I'm a bad mother hear to murder your face." than asking your archers how many men after releasing two of them it takes to deliver a message. He releases guys and then casually orders the murder of one of them, that's dark even a Disney movie, IIRC we even see the draw and implied release of the arrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    In line with the Hunchback of Notre Dame alternate endings, I think adding some bells and whistles from The Sui Tang Romance version of the Hua Mulan legend would be going a step too far.



    While I think going into the gender politics and cultural expectations of the time period would fall foul of the board rules, it depends on how far the movie follows the legend - Hua Mulan made it up through the ranks from foot soldier to general, and false impersonation of a military officer is normally an offense regardless of the culture.

    With regard to the 'witch', I would suspect she only has high rank due to the Hun leader's sufferance and the usefulness of her abilities, rather than having that position of power due to any meritocracy system.

    I've made mention of the heroine's motivation in other Mulan threads, so I won't repeat what I think of that paper thin excuse.
    Not sure what you are trying to say?

    If Mulan made it to general, then she can't be falsely impersonate one? Who impersonates anything there?

    And where, exactly, is the difference between "having high rank due to usefulness" and "having that position due to a meritocracy system"? What is a meritocracy if not "people gaining high rank by having useful abilities"?

    Okay, of course if the leader of the Huns lets the witch have a bit of influence as an exception from his general rules because she's useful, that would make their society just as sexist as that of Mulan, whereas her having an official rank because there is a system that lets women officially get high ranks by being skilled (= useful) would mean the Huns are actually more progressive. But I don't suppose we will find out in the movie - they probably won't discuss their respective cultures while trying to kill each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet Knight View Post
    Hey, I'm flexible. If only white men can be villians, we can re-write the story with Phoebus as the villian. It keeps the "Don't judge a book by it's cover" theme; only now Phoebus is the villian with an evil soul in a beautiful body.

    Say he's secretly a warlock, and he wants Frollo's position & authority. He casts a charm spell on Esmeralda's scarf that makes Frollo mad with lust. His plan is that Frollo will do something horrible and be executed for it.
    Your "evil pretty person" idea is good.

    I just think you should drop the "rapists are not actually bad people, they just have been bewitched" implications. Now, IF you made it so that someone (preferably not Esmeralda, but an invented character would be better, not sure Phoebus would want to switch careers so completely ...) puts a lust spell on Frollo to turn him into a rapist, only to be thwarted by the fact that lust can't turn good people into rapists ... that would be interesting. (You could put in a funny scene like that one in Terry Pratchett's Maskerade, where Nanny Ogg tries to get back at the very prudish Granny Weatherwax by serving her, and the three men who are also there, an aphrodisiac-laced dessert. Granny remains apparently unaffected, although she sweats a bit, while two of the men hurriedly start a conversation about all the cold things they can think of.)

    There's not, as such, a problem with female villains. Sure, there's tons of badly written ones, and I would in fact recommend to every male writer that he write a male villain, as men just don't seem to be able to write female villains well ... but it is, in fact, possible to write a female villain without misogynist stereotypes, and there wouldn't be a problem with such a villain. (The witch from Rapunzel was almost okay, if her evilness had been more explicitly about immortality and not about eternal beauty.)


    Lastly:
    Good art should punch up, not down. That's the problem with female and minority villains. (No one has a problem with non-white villains when they exist in a non-white culture where they are not a minority. See the Huns in Mulan.)

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    If Mulan made it to general, then she can't be falsely impersonate one? Who impersonates anything there?
    The punishment for impersonating a soldier varies, with the penalty increasing with the rank; a foot soldier is going to be comparatively minor compared to an officer, let alone a general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Okay, of course if the leader of the Huns lets the witch have a bit of influence as an exception from his general rules because she's useful, that would make their society just as sexist as that of Mulan, whereas her having an official rank because there is a system that lets women officially get high ranks by being skilled (= useful) would mean the Huns are actually more progressive.
    Sorry, that's what I meant to put across - the witch is an exception to the general rules because of her abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    The punishment for impersonating a soldier varies, with the penalty increasing with the rank; a foot soldier is going to be comparatively minor compared to an officer, let alone a general.
    But Mulan did not impersonate a soldier. She was made a soldier after showing up to serve her family's military duty. She only impersonated a man. At least in the Disney movie. But I don't think that her motive, namely, saving her father, was changed from the original myth - children sacrificing their own lives to save their parents it is a very common motive in Chinese literature.

    So, not sure what you mean to say ... because I don't think it makes the reaction to finding out she's a woman any less sexist.

    If she had turned up there and claimed to be her father and have the same military rank as he, that would have been impersonating an officer. But I don't think she did that in any version of the myth - it already stretches credibility that she passed for a man, but okay, people expected to see men when they saw men's clothes. Being an efficient soldier while also pretending to be a frail old man ... nah.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    But Mulan did not impersonate a soldier. She was made a soldier after showing up to serve her family's military duty. She only impersonated a man. At least in the Disney movie. But I don't think that her motive, namely, saving her father, was changed from the original myth - children sacrificing their own lives to save their parents it is a very common motive in Chinese literature.

    So, not sure what you mean to say ... because I don't think it makes the reaction to finding out she's a woman any less sexist.

    If she had turned up there and claimed to be her father and have the same military rank as he, that would have been impersonating an officer. But I don't think she did that in any version of the myth - it already stretches credibility that she passed for a man, but okay, people expected to see men when they saw men's clothes. Being an efficient soldier while also pretending to be a frail old man ... nah.
    She falsified her information, pretended to be somebody that doesnt exist, her entire entry to the army was based on fraud. Yes it was based on sexism as women cant join the military, but she still lied about who she was, likely signed documents lying about who she was, this is a crime. As an alternate example, lets say instead mulan was actually a boy, only he was a boy that was guilty of numerous crimes and was being searched for by the police. Had he joined the military under an assumed name and risen through the ranks, he would be found just as guilty of fraud as female mulan was. Because lying about who you are to the government is a bad thing!
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Okay, of course if the leader of the Huns lets the witch have a bit of influence as an exception from his general rules because she's useful, that would make their society just as sexist as that of Mulan, whereas her having an official rank because there is a system that lets women officially get high ranks by being skilled (= useful) would mean the Huns are actually more progressive. But I don't suppose we will find out in the movie - they probably won't discuss their respective cultures while trying to kill each other.
    Traditionally, in shamanic societies - which would apply to the Huns/Xiongnu who represent the steppe people of the time period associated with the Mulan myth - shamans (which would include 'witches') stood largely outside traditional strictures on gender roles. Due to this specialized status for religious figures, it's not a comparable situation. Traditionally steppe societies - like essentially all historical cultures - were male-dominated, but the structures imposed to limit female freedoms were different from those among their settled neighbors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Not sure what you are trying to say?

    If Mulan made it to general, then she can't be falsely impersonate one? Who impersonates anything there?

    And where, exactly, is the difference between "having high rank due to usefulness" and "having that position due to a meritocracy system"? What is a meritocracy if not "people gaining high rank by having useful abilities"?

    Okay, of course if the leader of the Huns lets the witch have a bit of influence as an exception from his general rules because she's useful, that would make their society just as sexist as that of Mulan, whereas her having an official rank because there is a system that lets women officially get high ranks by being skilled (= useful) would mean the Huns are actually more progressive. But I don't suppose we will find out in the movie - they probably won't discuss their respective cultures while trying to kill each other.
    Just trust me on this one, and don't look it up unless you want to be a bit horrified. Steppe cultures as far as we can tell from accounts of outsiders were very, very sexist. Though admittedly, the accounts are sparse and typically are not from the Northern Wei period that Mulan is supposedly based on. Though at that time the Huns were out west being particularly nasty.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    But Mulan did not impersonate a soldier. She was made a soldier after showing up to serve her family's military duty. She only impersonated a man. At least in the Disney movie. But I don't think that her motive, namely, saving her father, was changed from the original myth - children sacrificing their own lives to save their parents it is a very common motive in Chinese literature.
    Traab already explained the falsification - if the enlistment orders are for Father Hua, then Hua Mulan turning up pretending to be her father is impersonation. It's even worse if they were recall orders instead as that means he was previously serving soldier, so the military would be expecting a seasoned military man and therefore would likely be put into a command position of all the fresh recruits.

    While I agree that children sacrificing themselves for their parents is a common theme in Chinese literature, you don't want to go digging too deep into the Ballad of Mulan as the nobleness of her sacrifice kinda falls apart.

    Basically during the usual period that the Ballad is set in (Northern Wei Dynasty, 4th -6th Century AD), national service was administered at the local level. The local administrative unit in charge for that year would have been a local household (jia) and hence a neighbour (or a neighbour of a neighbour) of all the households in that block (the li) that were due to render national service that year.
    This meant that they would know that Father Hua had a dodgy leg, with no adult sons and therefore would have been recruited for a more suitable role anywhere in the empire (eg. doorman, groom, jailer, longshoreman, clerical assistant, etc) than infantry. Mulan just wanted to go out and kill people*, which significantly changes the motivation of the story.

    It's also worth pointing out that while meeting obligations, duties and exceptions was deemed to be honourable (and legally punishable if service was not rendered), joining the military was not deemed to be honourable in the Han culture. There's a Chinese saying '好铁不打钉,好人不当兵', which basically means 'Don't turn good iron into nails, don't turn good men into soldiers'; the way I read it, the implication is that it's wasteful to turn people into soldiers.**

    *Yes, I know that most military aren't combat arms, but when there's an active war on, why else would you be enlisting?
    **Personally I don't agree completely with this, but it's the prevailing view of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    It's also worth pointing out that while meeting obligations, duties and exceptions was deemed to be honourable (and legally punishable if service was not rendered), joining the military was not deemed to be honourable in the Han culture. There's a Chinese saying '好铁不打钉,好人不当兵', which basically means 'Don't turn good iron into nails, don't turn good men into soldiers'; the way I read it, the implication is that it's wasteful to turn people into soldiers.**
    My reading would be that nails are a low-quality product, and you don't waste the high-quality iron producing something that you could easily make with a cheaper source, meaning that soldiering is a job for the peasantry and the nobility should reserve themselves for most appropriate pursuits, like civil office. Most Chinese Dynasties were run by scholar-bureaucrats, the sons of various landholding houses who spent roughly their entire childhood and young adult years studying to pass the various examinations required in order to achieve high office. In order to sustain such a system it was absolutely necessary to denigrate the martial arts as a job for the so that young nobles wouldn't go off and become soldiers and then proceed to hack and slash their way into absolute power, though this happened anyway on several occasions. In fact one of the reasons China kept getting invaded and conquered by various steppe peoples was that the bureaucracy would deliberately under-equip and under-train the army because they were so terrified of internal rebellion. As a result Chinese dynasties tended to be strongest militarily under the founding emperor - who almost inevitably had to fight his way to power through an exhaustive series of battles, only to gradually lose power over time, which happened even when the dynasty was actually founded by steppe-based conquerors.

    This sort of thing is common in East Asia generally as similar divides can be found in Korea and Japan, and in the latter case the scholarly nobles just gave up all real power and let the warriors run the country but got to keep most of the fun perks of their position anyway. It's very different from the Western or Islamic world experience which tended to produce scholar-generals. This is why Western military history tended to be written by retired officers while East Asian military history tended to be written by poets as sweeping historical romances (ie. Romance of the Three Kingdoms). Exactly why this happened is difficult to pin down and almost certainly at least doctoral thesis levels of complex, but it's definitely a thing.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Traab already explained the falsification - if the enlistment orders are for Father Hua, then Hua Mulan turning up pretending to be her father is impersonation. It's even worse if they were recall orders instead as that means he was previously serving soldier, so the military would be expecting a seasoned military man and therefore would likely be put into a command position of all the fresh recruits.
    The trailer already shows that she enlists as her father's son, not as her father himself (Hua Zhou):
    https://youtu.be/KK8FHdFluOQ?t=95

    Also in that society there is admittedly no census, she's not falsifying official information or records.
    Last edited by Clertar; 2019-12-16 at 08:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    The trailer already shows that she enlists as her father's son, not as her father himself (Hua Zhou):
    https://youtu.be/KK8FHdFluOQ?t=95

    Also in that society there is admittedly no census, she's not falsifying official information or records.
    You besides the fact that she is NOT her fathers son? She is walking up to a government official, pretending to be someone she is not, and maintaining that lie until she gets caught. Thats fraud. Fraud with good intentions in these films sure, but still fraud.
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    Honestly, this is the Disney film that's probably the best suited for a live action remake! Think about it, aside from Mushu and the cricket, there are very few fantastical elements to the story that would need to be handled. The meeting of the ancestors at the beginning is the big one honestly.

    Which means the story is primarily about human characters in human, if dramatic, situations which would make it so much easier to do! Hell, the PotC had more fantastical and dramatic set pieces than Mulan does!

    This should be right up their alley for a grand slam if they put effort behind it.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    Honestly, this is the Disney film that's probably the best suited for a live action remake! Think about it, aside from Mushu and the cricket, there are very few fantastical elements to the story that would need to be handled. The meeting of the ancestors at the beginning is the big one honestly.

    Which means the story is primarily about human characters in human, if dramatic, situations which would make it so much easier to do! Hell, the PotC had more fantastical and dramatic set pieces than Mulan does!

    This should be right up their alley for a grand slam if they put effort behind it.
    This is a very good point. A brief bit of cgi of the ancestors, and then the most fantastical elements would be some low level wire fu plus the witch lady and her magic.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Callos_DeTerran View Post
    Honestly, this is the Disney film that's probably the best suited for a live action remake! Think about it, aside from Mushu and the cricket, there are very few fantastical elements to the story that would need to be handled. The meeting of the ancestors at the beginning is the big one honestly.

    Which means the story is primarily about human characters in human, if dramatic, situations which would make it so much easier to do! Hell, the PotC had more fantastical and dramatic set pieces than Mulan does!

    This should be right up their alley for a grand slam if they put effort behind it.
    Yes.

    And with remakes you have 3 main options (it is really way more than 3.)
    1) Shot by shot remake which is often boring.
    2) Reinterpret people's motivations and often adding new material that recolors everything aka the Wicked / Maleficent model.
    3) The 3rd option is to borrow from multiple traditions of the story you are telling.

    For example the Disney Animated Hunchback of Notre Dame is not just taking from Hugo's original novel, it is also taking from the Hugo's opera La Esmeralda which is an adaptation of Hunchback 4 years later that happened in musical form, it is taking from Hugo's Les Misérables novel, it is taking from the 1911, 1923, 1939 versions of film Hunchback that were produced, finally Disney's Hunchback also incorporated other Disney Renaissance Ideas plus the recent 70s to early 90s musical theatre.

    -----

    Well 2 and 3 in my mind is the best way of doing things. And Mulan can easily incorporate other Mulan ideas outside the original Disney Text and weave a new combination. Likewise I do not want a live action of Hunchback but Disney can easily do the same thing for that and many other Disney works. Many "fairy tales" do not have a single version but dozens of variants of the tale.

    So yeah I agree Mulan is a perfect candidate for live action reboot, besides the reason of "money."
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    I just want to know if the mulan in this movie will be as swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great typhoon. With all the strength of a raging fire and mysterious as the dark side of the moon. Its the only way for her to convince her captain that he can make a man out of her.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    It looks like the replacement commander character is filling a 'wise mentor' role in the story instead of the original 'love interest'.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    It looks like the replacement commander character is filling a 'wise mentor' role in the story instead of the original 'love interest'.
    That I don't mind. Unless they're doing it like that episode of Futurama where Leela disguises herself as a man to join the army and Zapp Brannigan becomes increasingly confused by his burgeoning homoerotic tendencies, I don't see the need for it. While I don't particularly dislike the Generic McHandsome romance from Mulan, it does feel like it was just something Disney movies were expected to do at the time and doesn't really benefit the story which was far more interesting in itself. Much like the addition of Murphy's wacky sidekick shtick.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    IMO this is not a good Disney animation to remake into a modern live action, because I highly doubt the oh-so-coveted Chinese market would be at all interested in it. Whereas ordinarily I suspect Disney movies do very well in China, because Disney and Mickey Mouse etc. There's going to be a general sense of "Why should I put up with this movie about dynastic China written by ignorant white devils, when I can turn on my TV and watch the Nth dynastic China soap opera or movie which deeply understands my culture?" Same with asking Chinese ppl if they think American Chinese take-out is good Chinese food.

    And I know Disney care about the Chinese market because it had the main actress go online and support the Chinese gov't versus the HK protests. Don't tell me that (and Disney's subsequent silence) was spontaneous and unplanned.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    In fact one of the reasons China kept getting invaded and conquered by various steppe peoples was that the bureaucracy would deliberately under-equip and under-train the army because they were so terrified of internal rebellion. As a result Chinese dynasties tended to be strongest militarily under the founding emperor - who almost inevitably had to fight his way to power through an exhaustive series of battles, only to gradually lose power over time, which happened even when the dynasty was actually founded by steppe-based conquerors.
    Plus it was cheaper to pay off the neighbouring steppe nomads to ward off the other steppe nomads than to maintain a high quality standing army under the principle of 以夷制夷 (yiyi zhiyi or 'use barbarians to deal with other barbarians', but now we're wandering into politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    This is why Western military history tended to be written by retired officers while East Asian military history tended to be written by poets as sweeping historical romances (ie. Romance of the Three Kingdoms). Exactly why this happened is difficult to pin down and almost certainly at least doctoral thesis levels of complex, but it's definitely a thing.
    I can't say about other SE Asian cultures, but in Chinese culture at least, military history tended towards dry records and accounting of events (e.g. Records of the Three Kingdoms), with the sweeping historical romance versions being written later or compiled from oral traditions (in the case of Romance, it's both).

    Military theory is a bit different and tended towards retired military officers adding commentary on existing texts or modifying rather than out-right ignoring them - for example my copy of Sun Tzu's Art of War has commentary by General Tao Hanzhang (as far as I can tell, he was a Red Army veteran during the Communist Revolution) and both compliments and corrects where the principles apply/don't apply with modern warfare.

    The Art of War itself is also written by someone with military experience (or at least compiled from people with such experience) - as the legend goes, Sun Tzu made soldiers out of concubines in what was effectively a bet with the ruler.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    The trailer already shows that she enlists as her father's son, not as her father himself (Hua Zhou):
    https://youtu.be/KK8FHdFluOQ?t=95

    Also in that society there is admittedly no census, she's not falsifying official information or records.
    If you mean in the fictional China presented in the Disney version, I'd agree. Under the lijia system, that's definitely incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    It looks like the replacement commander character is filling a 'wise mentor' role in the story instead of the original 'love interest'.
    Given Donny Yen's most recent roles as Ip Man, it's only fitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    And I know Disney care about the Chinese market because it had the main actress go online and support the Chinese gov't versus the HK protests. Don't tell me that (and Disney's subsequent silence) was spontaneous and unplanned.
    Yeah, I was kinda hoping to avoid that elephant in the room.
    Last edited by Brother Oni; 2019-12-18 at 04:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Clertar View Post
    The trailer already shows that she enlists as her father's son, not as her father himself (Hua Zhou):
    https://youtu.be/KK8FHdFluOQ?t=95

    Also in that society there is admittedly no census, she's not falsifying official information or records.
    But she is giving false information, she is falsifying information about herself, similar to if she had lied about her age because she was 15 and they asked for one person 18 years old or older from each household. (Or if she lied about her name to cover for a neighbour, or if she lied about her species to serve an easy stint as a drug sniffing customs dog.)

    Many officers wouldn't make a big mission of finding these people, because they'd rather have a willing volunteer who doesn't meet all criteria than a grumbling draftee who does. (Lower officers at least, higher ups might be worried about bad press.) The age case in particular would also be hard to prove in a state without census. But it is still fraud and at the very least can be cause for the local and temporal equivalent of dishonorable discharge.
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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    It looks like the replacement commander character is filling a 'wise mentor' role in the story instead of the original 'love interest'.
    Oh thank the goddess - or whoever is in charge of the plot at Disney.

    The whole "leave her out in the snow to die" thing will be a lot less grating when the guy who does it doesn't become a love interest. (And perhaps he won't even do that. Considering that wise mentors tend to be kinder to women than love interests, for some weird reason.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MLai View Post
    IMO this is not a good Disney animation to remake into a modern live action, because I highly doubt the oh-so-coveted Chinese market would be at all interested in it. Whereas ordinarily I suspect Disney movies do very well in China, because Disney and Mickey Mouse etc. There's going to be a general sense of "Why should I put up with this movie about dynastic China written by ignorant white devils, when I can turn on my TV and watch the Nth dynastic China soap opera or movie which deeply understands my culture?" Same with asking Chinese ppl if they think American Chinese take-out is good Chinese food.

    And I know Disney care about the Chinese market because it had the main actress go online and support the Chinese gov't versus the HK protests. Don't tell me that (and Disney's subsequent silence) was spontaneous and unplanned.

    That's a good point.

    I mean, it is possible they did it because Mulan was very successful in the rest of the world and they just want the Chinese market, too.

    But if the Chinese market is the primary target, then remaking some more traditionally European myth that would seem cool and interesting and exotic to the Chinese would probably be a wiser move.
    However ... what Disney Fairy Tale movie, at this point, hasn't been remade at least once? Cinderella? There's so many live action Cinderella versions, I'm not sure if there is one by Disney.


    Edit: I was curious as to what shows get popular in China and googled it ...

    I found this:

    Despite the fact that all scenes with violence and nudity were edited to meet censorship requirements, the fantasy drama has quickly – partly thanks to pirated copies – gained lots of devoted fans.
    Considering that the violence and the sexual objectification of female characters are the reasons I have not watched it, I would replace that "despite" with "Due to".

    I wonder where one can get the Chinese version.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2019-12-18 at 09:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Considering that the violence and the sexual objectification of female characters are the reasons I have not watched it, I would replace that "despite" with "Due to".
    You didn't mention what show. I assume it's Game Of Thrones? I can totally see GoT being a pirate hit in China.

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    Considering that the violence and the sexual objectification of female characters are the reasons I have not watched it, I would replace that "despite" with "Due to".

    I wonder where one can get the Chinese version.
    It even happens to internally produced shows. There were memes going around Chinese social media sites regarding the show 'The Empress of China' where the female characters have dresses which show a small amount of cleavage which also got censored:

    Spoiler: A 'The Empress of China' meme
    Show

    Spoiler: What was deemed to be too revealing
    Show


    Note that this isn't a case of 'sex-ed up history' - upper class women during the 7th and 8th Century Tang Dynasty were known to have worn fairly revealing dresses:

    Spoiler: Court ladies of the Tang, mural from the Tomb of Princess Yongtai, 706AD
    Show

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    Default Re: Mulan (2020) Official Trailer

    Those SLOOTS!!!!!! How dare china talk smack about the decadent west when their great great grandmothers were dressed so street walkery?!
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