Warframe In The Playground 4 - Rotation C

[thatSeniorGuy]

So, in other news (and I'm a bit late to the party here) Tennocon has come and gone, and boy did DE drop quite the mother lode. For those that missed it, here's the devstream itself, here's DE's summary, and here's a nice summary on Reddit of everything that happened at Tennocon. The Heart of Deimos release itself is dropping August 25th.

My random thoughts below:

Spoiler: Spoilers for the Heart of Deimos content, including the HoD quest

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• the "new player experience" (which I think is the re-done starting quest) is dropping with HoD.
• Xaku, the Broken warframe is also dropping. I imagine his blueprint will drop during the HoD quest (his theme of using the Void ties very well to the quest's plot) or will be purchasable from one of the factions. His 4th looks absolutely bonkers and I'm looking forward to trying him out.
• Helminth is now going to serve an actual purpose, and the long-lost "alchemy" system is finally revealed! Replace a single Warframe power with one that Helminth can implant (more unlock as you level it up), or let it digest a built (non-prime) frame and you can extract one of its powers to Helminth's arsenal, and implant that in as many frames as you want! From what DE has said, ultimate and "signature" abilities won't be candidates for extraction, but that still leaves a ton of useful powers on the table. Take Wukong for instance: Brokong is out, as is the Iron Staff, which leaves a fantastic mobility power that also removes status effects and heals you, or an armour buffing power that will be extremely useful for squishy frame (and even non-squishy ones - imagine Valkyr with another 1.5k armour on top of the ridiculous amount she already has). Still need to go over all the Warframes and salivate on what the possibilities are.

Deimos itself is going to be a new planet that replaces the Orokin Derelict (DE wasn't very happy with how matchmaking didn't work with the OD's key system). It's going to have traditional mission nodes, as well as an open world area. I wasn't looking forward to having another open world, but damn if it isn't beautifully horrific (gives me pleasant vibes of High Charity after the Flood took it over in Halo 3). And it definitely shows off how DE can put so much flavour into things:

• The day-night cycle is governed by two gigantic worms that act as the "moon" and "sun". When it's time for them to switch, the new one will wake up and fire a fricking laser beam to kill the other. Because why not.
• New infested enemies galore, which were certainly needed. Helios is going to be so happy!
• NPCs - a bipolar robot/cephalon (well, I guess another one counting Ordis), and a mostly infested Orokin Matriach of the Entrati family. I found it very interesting that she has the same deformity that Ballas does (an elongated right arm). Makes me wonder if this was actually standard among the Orokin (or if it implies that she and Ballas are related). The Entrati family did extensive research into the Void, and were tasked with looking after ...
• The Heart of Deimos itself, an artefact that apparently makes all Void technology work, including Warframes. Naturally it's on the verge of failing, which we'll have to fix during the HoD quest. TBH, I'm a little miffed about its premise - one would think that our space-kids don't need no stinking artefact to power the Warframes, and having it present kinda make the Tenno not so special. I guess we'll learn more during the quest. At least there's going to be tons of lore-drops.
• New mech enemies, and apparently mechs are going to be a new type of vehicle that you can customise from various parts. Not too excited by them to be honest - unless they bring a ****-ton of firepower, I'd prefer to use my agile Warframe rather than a clunky mech (even if they can hover).

So yeah, really looking forward to it.

[Brother Oni]

My random thoughts below:

Spoiler: Spoilers for the Heart of Deimos content, including the HoD quest

Show

• NPCs - a bipolar robot/cephalon (well, I guess another one counting Ordis), and a mostly infested Orokin Matriach of the Entrati family. I found it very interesting that she has the same deformity that Ballas does (an elongated right arm). Makes me wonder if this was actually standard among the Orokin (or if it implies that she and Ballas are related). The Entrati family did extensive research into the Void, and were tasked with looking after ...
• New mech enemies, and apparently mechs are going to be a new type of vehicle that you can customise from various parts. Not too excited by them to be honest - unless they bring a ****-ton of firepower, I'd prefer to use my agile Warframe rather than a clunky mech (even if they can hover).

So yeah, really looking forward to it.

Spoiler: 40K

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With the Infested Orokin Matriarch, she has the deformed right arm as Orokin find symmetry horrific. It's why the Grineer Queens were cast out (they were twin girls) before they found their niche ruling the Grineer.

I do like the running joke on the Reddit forums that this is our 4th mother figure in Warframe (biological, Margulis, Lotus) - shows how messed up the Tenno really are.

With all the skull prevalance in the design of the necromechs, I'm wondering if they're aiming for both Titanfall and 40K players with the new mechs. I was definitely getting a Space Marine Dreadnought feel towards the end of the demo.

[MCerberus]

So I did hook up with a random invite clan and now have weeks! WEEKS worth of recipes to build and grind as fast as I can make forma

Ordis: "Operator, what does this have to do with preparing to take on Aten"
Shut up Ordis

[thatSeniorGuy]

Spoiler: Re Oni's comments

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Symmetry - Ah, that makes sense. I never bothered to collect all the Kuria so I'm not up on their backstory. Cheers.

Mums - Yeah, I loved Reb's comment in the devstream that we've found a mum that can't leave us because she's stuck to the moon

40K - Yeah I was definitely getting those vibes! And I've never even interacted with the franchise at all!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Spoiler: 40K

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With all the skull prevalance in the design of the necromechs, I'm wondering if they're aiming for both Titanfall and 40K players with the new mechs. I was definitely getting a Space Marine Dreadnought feel towards the end of the demo.

Spoiler

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Yeah, in the comments section of a video I watched on the mech, there was a pretty much even split between people making Titanfall jokes and Warhammer 40k jokes.

Random question; which speargun do you folks think is the best speargun? The Javlok, the Ferrox or the Scourge?

[Wraith]

Full disclosure; I don't like any of them, they're all kind of awkward to aim and their Rate of Fire doesn't suit my playstyle.

If forced to choose though, probably the Ferrox. Electricity damage lends itself to slightly better elemental combinations than Heat, and the 'magnetic' effect can be quite useful for setting up a big crowd of targets for a power-based 'frame like Nidus' 1, Vauban's 3, Hydroid's 2, etc.

[sihnfahl]

Spoiler: 40K

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I do like the running joke on the Reddit forums that this is our 4th mother figure in Warframe (biological, Margulis, Lotus) - shows how messed up the Tenno really are.

Spoiler

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Let's see if I remember tenno history ...

Kids who weren't supposed to be on a 'military' ship - but taken along anyway because families didn't want to be separated that long. (Re:Ember's entry)

Who saw their parents go mad and try to kill them.

Then bound themselves to a void entity to survive.

Locked up by the Orokin because of their void exposure (and powers), despite the emotional trauma the kids had gone through.

Then released when the Orokin realized the tenno could control the warframes the orokin had more or less lost control of.

Which put the tenno into the bodies (and tied them to the memories) of people who were twisted by an infection - not exactly of their own free will, at times, and outright tortured in cases to make sure they were stronger. Like Mirage having a spaceship dropped on her...

Yeah, I could see how they would have ... issues.

[Squark]

Spoiler: 40K

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With the Infested Orokin Matriarch, she has the deformed right arm as Orokin find symmetry horrific. It's why the Grineer Queens were cast out (they were twin girls) before they found their niche ruling the Grineer.

Spoiler

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I'm pretty sure the orokin are described as symmetrical and unique, actually- The queens were shunned for reminding the Orokin of the grineer's uniformity, not for symmetry. Which is what made Ballas's arm confusing

[MCerberus]

Glassmaker mobs shattered and killed the terminal from full health in my last two attempts.

Spoiler

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[Brother Oni]

Spoiler

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I'm pretty sure the orokin are described as symmetrical and unique, actually- The queens were shunned for reminding the Orokin of the grineer's uniformity, not for symmetry. Which is what made Ballas's arm confusing

It was something along those lines - I guess I went with the version that made more sense in my head than what was actually stated due to the obvious asymmetry of Ballas' arms.

[Toastkart]

Spoiler

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Yeah, in the comments section of a video I watched on the mech, there was a pretty much even split between people making Titanfall jokes and Warhammer 40k jokes.

Random question; which speargun do you folks think is the best speargun? The Javlok, the Ferrox or the Scourge?

Full disclosure; I don't like any of them, they're all kind of awkward to aim and their Rate of Fire doesn't suit my playstyle.

If forced to choose though, probably the Ferrox. Electricity damage lends itself to slightly better elemental combinations than Heat, and the 'magnetic' effect can be quite useful for setting up a big crowd of targets for a power-based 'frame like Nidus' 1, Vauban's 3, Hydroid's 2, etc.

I have not tried the Scourge, but I prefer the Javlok. I really couldn't get into the Ferrox. It's primary fire seemed weak in comparison, with a smaller explosion radius and the innate punchthrough makes it less likely to matter anyway. It's secondary is nice for status stacking, but I found the pull more of a hold in place. With the exception of Hydroid, the other frames mentioned have a way of gathering up enemies that's much more efficient than the ferrox. The Javlok, by comparison, has a larger radius on the primary, innate heat damage, and you can increase the damage of the secondary by increasing the magazine size. It also looks boss on Inaros with the Anubis helmet. I'm kinda hoping for a kuva javlok, honestly.


How about the nagantaka? I got a riven for it off yesterday's sortie and decided to dust it off again. I don't know if it's just me, but even with terminal velocity I have a hard time hitting targets at mid to long ranges, even compared to not having terminal velocity on the attica or the zhuge. I realize it's essentially a headshot weapon, but I find myself almost exclusively using its secondary to get anything done.

Any tips for the MR 23 test? I've done 5-6 practice runs and not even gotten close to finishing.

[Wraith]

Any tips for the MR 23 test? I've done 5-6 practice runs and not even gotten close to finishing.

Play as Limbo. Spec him for movement speed, do a dash/dodge to enter the Rift dimension, and then you can casually stroll around invulnerable for as long as you like and ignore everything but chasing the orb.

If you DON'T want to just cheese it in a way that is completely cheap, spec Loki for Duration - 30 seconds of Invisibility minimum - and try to clear groups of enemies with an AoE weapon like an Ignis or Arca Plasmor both with +AoE mods. It's doable but still a challenge if you must test yourself.

[Toastkart]

Play as Limbo. Spec him for movement speed, do a dash/dodge to enter the Rift dimension, and then you can casually stroll around invulnerable for as long as you like and ignore everything but chasing the orb.

If you DON'T want to just cheese it in a way that is completely cheap, spec Loki for Duration - 30 seconds of Invisibility minimum - and try to clear groups of enemies with an AoE weapon like an Ignis or Arca Plasmor both with +AoE mods. It's doable but still a challenge if you must test yourself.

*head bonk* I totally didn't even think of that. Thanks. My first attempt used Mag's counter pulse, but since it's a test there wasn't enough energy to use it more than once or twice. I was going to try out Inaros with the augment for his 4, handspring, and other speed mods, but limbo was so much easier.

[sihnfahl]

If you DON'T want to just cheese it in a way that is completely cheap, spec Loki for Duration - 30 seconds of Invisibility minimum - and try to clear groups of enemies with an AoE weapon like an Ignis or Arca Plasmor both with +AoE mods. It's doable but still a challenge if you must test yourself.

Or Ash, for that matter. I can run entire missions stealthed, save for those few seconds between recasts...

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And who can forget Ivara (I just got all the stuff to make Ivara Prime and I'm so happy!)?

[Brother Oni]

And who can forget Ivara (I just got all the stuff to make Ivara Prime and I'm so happy!)?

In the context of the MR23 test though, she's far too slow.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Oh. Sorry!

[Wraith]

No need to apologise. In nearly every other situation, in the choice between Loki and Ivara, the latter is probably better all around. It's just this once where the test is in speed and agility that the Norse God has the edge

...Which isn't to say that I won't be swapping out as many of his non-cloak abilities as possible when Deimos drops. I can barely even remember what his '3' and '4' does, since I haven't used either in months!

[Squark]

No need to apologise. In nearly every other situation, in the choice between Loki and Ivara, the latter is probably better all around. It's just this once where the test is in speed and agility that the Norse God has the edge

...Which isn't to say that I won't be swapping out as many of his non-cloak abilities as possible when Deimos drops. I can barely even remember what his '3' and '4' does, since I haven't used either in months!

Switcb Teleport actually has some pretty good utility (And can be used for shenanigans like jumping over a pit then switching with a hapless enemy). And Radial Disarm is actually fantastic for farming since it forces enemies to close with you.

So while I can't tell you what to do, I do suggest tiving Loki's 3 and 4 a chance. Decoy is awkward due to the lack of health scaling, though.

[thatSeniorGuy]

... I can barely even remember what his '3' and '4' does, since I haven't used either in months! ...

... And Radial Disarm is actually fantastic for farming since it forces enemies to close with you. ...

So while I can't tell you what to do, I do suggest tiving Loki's 3 and 4 a chance. Decoy is awkward due to the lack of health scaling, though.

Yeah, Loki's 4 is fantastic, especially when paired with the augment! Makes all the enemies around useless because a) they're forced into melee and b) they're fighting each other anyway!

[Wraith]

It's juts not what I just Loki *for*. He's what I use when I just need to blitz a Spy, Assassination or Capture mission as fast as possible and can't be bothered with small details like fighting enemies - go Stealthed for 34 seconds and sprint for the end

The build I use makes him pretty fragile and at least two of his four abilities are very circumstantial, not to mention their mods conflict with the '2' power - spec'ing for duration can really cut down on range, so pulling off the teleport is pretty unreliable. If he's ever in a protracted fight then I have done something VERY wrong!

That being said, I'm not sure what I'd trade his abilities out for. I'm not doing it for the sake of doing it, but until we know more about how the system works I don't have any better alternatives in mind.

[Squark]

Comprehensive Helminth preview

You get roar! You get roar! EVERYBODY GETS ROAR!


I exaggerate, but only a little. The power levels of the available abilities are kind ofball over the place. And defense abilities (Snow Globe, Cataclysm, Mass Vitrify) seem to be the only niche that you can't get added to your frame.

[Leon]

I was hoping it would be roar

[NeoVid]

I'm looking forward to turning Nekros into the perfect frame, by finally giving him a useful Ability 1.

Heh, people are already talking about how the best ability that can be transferred is Nidus' Larva, but it'll be balanced by no one being willing to farm Nidus a second time.

[Tome]

I'm looking forward to sticking one of those damage boosts on Zephyr.

Not sure what I'd give Titania. Maybe a damage boost as well?

Hildryn is definitely getting some sort of mobility booster though.

[Squark]

Hmm... I feel like doing some theory crafting, so let's break the abilities down by group.

1) Damage-buffing abilities. These are notable because DE has said they won't allow these to be combined; Mirage can't have eclipse and roar, for instance. However, there's still a grey area at the moment; Vex armor, eclipse, and Amp were called out specifically, but what about Warcry? Shooting Gallery? Nourish? Vauban's overdriver mine? And what about the elemental damage augments? Since we don't have a definite answer, I'm going to list all the potential options.
-Rhino's Roar: Simple, reliable, and Multiplicitive. Roar is almost certainly the go-to choice here.
-Eclipse: While Eclipse is less reliable than Roar, it's also 4x as effective. If you're not Eidilon Hunting, the inconsistentency may be worth it (especially since 95% DR is a decent consolation prize for when you're in the dark).
-Shooting Gallery: Much weaker than Roar since not only is it a lower base value, it's also additive instead of Multiplicitive. Still, the extra CC may appeal to some people.
-Nourish: Toxin damage buff and a tiny self-heal. Less powerful than roar, but it's possible it can be stacked with normal damage buffs.
-Xatu's whisper: Void damage buff. Unknown effectiveness.
-Warcry: Melee attack speed, a small Armor buff, and Crowd Control. Less powerful than an ability that only does one of those things, but doing all three provides some interesting options.
-Shock/Smite: Augments for these abilities provide a potent elemental damage buff. Potentially very strong if these buffs can be stacked with regular damage buffs, but do you really want to forma Selfish Chroma two more times to replace Augur Secrets with Smite Infusion/Shock Trooper?

Defensive abilities: Unlike the damage abilities, we don't see as many of the A-tier durability powers. Still, what we do see has potential
-Null Star: Can provide a lot of damage reduction if you're keeping your distance and running Narrow minded anyway. Still, without Molecular Fission, you won't get the same results as actual Novas do.
-Defy: Brief invulnerability period followed by armor buff. 1500 armor is more than most frames can get out of the other armor buffing powers unless a frame already has a high base armor and high power strength, but the power doesn't work as well at low enemy levels.
-Elemental Ward: Lower maintenance defense buff. Can apply to health, armor, or shields as usual for Chroma. Not very strong on a squishy frame, but capable of buffing one of a tank's defensive stats into the stratosphere (Cold Elemental Ward Valkyr can get a truly silly level of armor from this).
-Warcry: Mentioned above. Does a bit of everything.
-Eclipse: 95% DR is the strongest effect available here... but you'll get damage instead in the light.

Healing
-Well of Life: Buffed with the update. Unknown effectiveness. Could be nice on Warframes who are not Trinity.
-Blood Altar: Very nice heal, but doesn't affect Defense objectives.
-Nourish: Not competitive with the othwr abilities. Mentioned only for completeness.
-Dispensary: Provides super health orbs, as well as energy and ammo. Less potent, but more versatile.
-Molt: When augmented, provides mobility, a distraction, and a respectable heal.
-Heat blast; When augmented, provides healing based on number of enemies hit, as well as stripping armor. Primarily attractive for armor stripping, but the heal is nice utility if you have the slot.

Crowd Control: A lot of abilities technically crowd control. I'm only listing the stand-outs.
-Larva: Almost certainly the strongest choice here. But it requires farming Nidus.
-Lull: No fuss sleep ability
-Rest and Rage: Longer duration but smaller range than Lull. Combine that with Lull not interferingnwith fashion frame, and I suspect the latter will be prefered.
Petrify: arguably weaker than Larva and lull because it doesn't gather enemies and only works in a cone... But now every frame can get have a farming ability. Petrify Nekros is going to be hilarious.

Debuff: Debuffing is much more relevant now that the Steel Path is out. Not a ton here, but worth listing nonetheless.
-Pillage: Shield/Armor stripping+ Shield restore. Interesting.
-Shuriken: Seeking Shuriken can easily strip armor completely, but requires an augment.
-Fire blast: AoE Armor strip. Stronger armor strip than Pillage, but doesn't affect shields.

Mobility: Only a few options here. Both seem to be counterproductive for stealth, interestingly. Also, both abilities end status effects interestingly enough.
-Molt: Faster, but shorter duration
-Firewalker: Slower, but much longer lasting. Also provides status immunity instead of just dumping status effects.

[Brother Oni]

I exaggerate, but only a little. The power levels of the available abilities are kind ofball over the place. And defense abilities (Snow Globe, Cataclysm, Mass Vitrify) seem to be the only niche that you can't get added to your frame.

I'd agree that AOE defence abilities seem to be off the table, but there are a number of available personal ones - Nova's Null Star, which gives you 5% DR per star and scales with duration (capping at 18 stars/90%DR at 200% Duration), and Wukong's Defy, but that's more an 'oh crap' panic button than long term defence.

With regard to Nidus, the various Community streams are dropping regular warframe component bits (this week is Harrow and Khora's BP) - we might get lucky and they drop Nidus.

-Nourish: Toxin damage buff and a tiny self-heal. Less powerful than roar, but it's possible it can be stacked with normal damage buffs.

So I'm curious - Nourish works only if Grendel's got an enemy in his belly. Since Feast isn't available, how does any other warframe use Nourish, since they can't eat and store enemies whole (even Inaros doesn't vore whole enemies).

[Squark]

I'd agree that AOE defence abilities seem to be off the table, but there are a number of available personal ones - Nova's Null Star, which gives you 5% DR per star and scales with duration (capping at 18 stars/90%DR at 200% Duration), and Wukong's Defy, but that's more an 'oh crap' panic button than long term defence.

With regard to Nidus, the various Community streams are dropping regular warframe component bits (this week is Harrow and Khora's BP) - we might get lucky and they drop Nidus.



So I'm curious - Nourish works only if Grendel's got an enemy in his belly. Since Feast isn't available, how does any other warframe use Nourish, since they can't eat and store enemies whole (even Inaros doesn't vore whole enemies).

25 seconds (base) of Valkyr level armor from Defy is a bit more than a panic button in my opinion. That's 85% damage reduction for a warframe with the minimum 100 armor. Also, Null Star needs an additional 200% duration (or 300% duration, to put it another way) to cap the number of particles (You probably meant that, but the way you put it through me for a loop for a minute, so I thought it important to mention that).

As for Nourish, it no longer eats an enemy, but only uses Nourished Strike.

[sihnfahl]

Heart of Deimos ....

Partially through it, about to visit 'Brother' after 'Sister' pointed me in directions.

But what a messed up family.

And ... what happened to the story?

Okay, the 'Man in the Wall' is how we got our void powers ... but the Heart 'pumps' void energy to us, not through our connection to the Man in the Wall?

And the Neks are now introduced as the 'between' of the Infestation and the Frames? When they were never mentioned by -anyone- before?

[Squark]

Heart of Deimos ....

Partially through it, about to visit 'Brother' after 'Sister' pointed me in directions.

But what a messed up family.

And ... what happened to the story?

Okay, the 'Man in the Wall' is how we got our void powers ... but the Heart 'pumps' void energy to us, not through our connection to the Man in the Wall?

And the Neks are now introduced as the 'between' of the Infestation and the Frames? When they were never mentioned by -anyone- before?

The way I see it, the Heart keeps the door open between the void, allowing energy to flow from Wally to the Tenno. Close the door, and you get at most a trickle of energy.

Spoiler: HoD spoilers

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this is pretty much what happens partway through the quest; The heart is deactivated, and while transferrance isn't completely disrupted, your connection to the warframe is so weakened, you're left unarmed and powerless, forcing you to rely on the cruder Necromechs, which have a simpler connection- probably because there's only one person in there instead of two

As for nekromechs, they're a discarded project from before the tenno were taken out of stasis; The only people left alive who remember them would be the sentients, Ballas, and maybe Parvos Granum, none of whom have had reason to bring up a failed prototype.