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  1. - Top - End - #841
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    And I would take that bet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I would too.
    Thirdsies! I dont quite see how some appearances count and some don't, especially when he made a whole thing about the specific number of appearances, and that seems like a pretty big detail to forget.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-02-26 at 07:35 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #842
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Thirdsies! I dont quite see how some appearances count and some don't, especially when he made a whole thing about the specific number of appearances, and that seems like a pretty big detail to forget.
    Especially to forget about a character who, as a member of the Order of the Scribble, is already such a fundamental part of the narrative.

  3. - Top - End - #843
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    How the halibut do we tell who has a plausible reason to be at the north pole? The main valid reason has to be "they're in this bit", and then The giant wrote a reason.
    No, the main valid reason is that they're a crew of the Mechane, and the Mechane flew the Order to the North Pole. All the mysterious helper had to do was overhear what the Order were talking about on the ship, decide that their mission is important (with, you know, the world at stake), and get off at the North Pole to try to help.

  4. - Top - End - #844
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Xapi View Post
    I would bet real actual money that it is Serini and Rich is not counting or forgot about some appearances.

    And the fact that people are here saying "Oh no but you can't NOT COUNT X appearance" as if it was life or death, is in my mind indication that I am right, since Rich has many times said that his readers are way more caught up in such minutiae than he is.
    Come now. Since the Giant does not actually count appearences, the Mystery Ally is obviously going to be Belkar or Redcloak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We should. A character that doesn't have a reason to be at the North Pole is unlikely to be an ally for the first half of the book, so any proposal of a character that isn't already there that doesn't explain how and why they would get there has a severe flaw.
    That's why I think the Mystery Ally is going to be either an agent of Tiamat (yeah, I know, but I'm not giving up on this so easily) – which means access to the Oracle and the infrastructure of a church – or the IFCC's vessel (the Directors know where the Order is and it is trivial for them to transport someone there).

  5. - Top - End - #845
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Thirdsies! I dont quite see how some appearances count and some don't, especially when he made a whole thing about the specific number of appearances, and that seems like a pretty big detail to forget.
    I mean...

    Out of the four appearances claimed for her, the first one is a picture of her in a book, which it's reasonable to not count, and in the fourth one she's invisible (so she literally does not appear) - plus the whole point is that her identity was unknown; counting her then would have spoiled the surprise.

    That leaves only two actual appearances on two pages directly after each other; it's entirely reasonable that Rich blurred them together into one in his head.

    My take: It's probably her and there's probably going to be people eagerly anticipating the appearance of the "major character" when the story ends without any other candidates appearing.

    Keep in mind that Rich stated that the character would appear in the first half of the final book. Most books have been about 200 pages, and we are
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2021-03-03 at 02:14 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    That leaves only two actual appearances on two pages directly after each other; it's entirely reasonable that Rich blurred them together into one in his head.
    Serini has also appeared in the books and Rich specifically said "(including all the prequel stories)". I don't think he forgot that too, when he specifically mentions the prequals.

    Also some people have argued the Flashbacks don't count either because it's not the actual story and a lot of things about the flashbacks are suspicious.

    Edit: The Giant also specifically said "Someone who has appeared in exactly one (1) page". In both 276 en 277 Serini appears on two different pages, making a total page count of 4.

    If it ends up being Serini, I will print out this thread and eat it. And also ask Rich one (1) time to do the same thing for being a terrible counter.
    Last edited by Yanisa; 2021-03-03 at 02:57 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #847
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    I think the argument that Rich egregiously miscounted something and put that in a published book, or that he used a bunch of technicalities to dismiss appearances until he arrived at "one," doesn't make prima facie sense.

  8. - Top - End - #848
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    I figure we can say “just look at the number of appearances thread at that time he probably just checked that he knows it exists” is the most reasonable explanation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  9. - Top - End - #849
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    I'll just say that even though there's no chance that the hint was referring to Serini, it doesn't mean she won't become an ally. If the character is her orange-voiced companion, that's just misdirection. Saying most of Serini's appearances somehow don't count is flat-out cheating.
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  10. - Top - End - #850
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Thinking back more, I am a little more confident it is Juta for a number of reasons and in fact, I think on how Juta will play a part of the story if I’m right.

    She would be a Maenad or Half-Giant Barbarian with a couple levels in a Psionic class (maybe Psychic Warrior if she’s half-giant).

    1- It would be thematically appropriate for one of Eugene’s old adventuring partners to appear and she has been seen never interacting with Eugene, so we know little of their relationship. Perhaps she is there by accident, working with Serini or something else, but she gets involved to help.

    2- Her being a Maenad or Half-Giant would explain how she would still be in fighting shape despite being in her 70s or 80s. She’d be old, but still strong as a half-giant and barely middle age as a Maenad.

    3- Besides helping the Order, I propose she would help Roy with his character development. As a Barbarian, she would empathize with him over the struggle of being viewed as fumble muscle. Additionally, her being a Maenad would further emphasize that given how they are widely believed to be very emotions, yet in person restrained and in the one panel we see of her, she’s very serious looking, kinda like Soon’s expression.

    How would she help? My reflecting on the pride of being pure physical classes... and then realizing how dumb it is. Eugene may be a tool, but he can be right at times and she’s comfortable with herself in her skills as a Barbarian to take on a Psionic class (additionally, as a Maenad, her favored class would be wilder and as a half-giant psychic warrior). Alternately, she may give him a homebrew Psionic Prestige class that stacks with Fighter levels.

    4- Roy gaining a psionic class would enable him to use his intelligence and wisdom to the fullest, and psions aren’t inhibited by Armor like wizards are I believe. Plus, it would be a good callback to the Psion that could. It would also further show he’s his own man away from his father.

    If he did, it could be pure Psion or a homebrew class. Heck, the bonus feat feat in Inquisitor would help out with his Sense Motive. Psionic Weapon would let him do more damage.


    Now, I am probably just wildly speculating here, but I do think I laid out a good case.

  11. - Top - End - #851
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by CountDVB View Post
    3- Besides helping the Order, I propose she would help Roy with his character development. As a Barbarian, she would empathize with him over the struggle of being viewed as fumble muscle. Additionally, her being a Maenad would further emphasize that given how they are widely believed to be very emotions, yet in person restrained and in the one panel we see of her, she’s very serious looking, kinda like Soon’s expression.

    How would she help? My reflecting on the pride of being pure physical classes... and then realizing how dumb it is. Eugene may be a tool, but he can be right at times and she’s comfortable with herself in her skills as a Barbarian to take on a Psionic class (additionally, as a Maenad, her favored class would be wilder and as a half-giant psychic warrior). Alternately, she may give him a homebrew Psionic Prestige class that stacks with Fighter levels.

    4- Roy gaining a psionic class would enable him to use his intelligence and wisdom to the fullest, and psions aren’t inhibited by Armor like wizards are I believe. Plus, it would be a good callback to the Psion that could. It would also further show he’s his own man away from his father.

    If he did, it could be pure Psion or a homebrew class. Heck, the bonus feat feat in Inquisitor would help out with his Sense Motive. Psionic Weapon would let him do more damage.
    I don't think Roy will take on a psionic class for a couple of reasons, one being that for whatever plot/character purposes Roy needs to diversify his skill set, his ability to channel his sword's latent powers functions in that capacity; for two, I don't know when Roy will find the time to gain a level and add a class.

    If anything, I think the character development for Roy would come from Juta shedding light on what kind of person Eugene was as an adventurer, and maybe recontextualizing how Roy thinks about his dad. But I don't know at this point if that would meaningfully affect their relationship; I don't expect Eugene to go back on his promise, even if he wants to.
    Last edited by Ruck; 2021-03-04 at 04:49 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #852
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    I agree it can't be Serini, but some of the points being made by people in the Serini camp (namely about how it'd make sense for the character in question to have already been introduced or to be introduced shortly if they're to be an ally during the first half of this book) make me think it might be Orange. And there shouldn't be that many one-page characters that could be Orange, given their implied size and (maybe) number of limbs in #1189.
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  13. - Top - End - #853
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by hroþila View Post
    I agree it can't be Serini, but some of the points being made by people in the Serini camp (namely about how it'd make sense for the character in question to have already been introduced or to be introduced shortly if they're to be an ally during the first half of this book) make me think it might be Orange. And there shouldn't be that many one-page characters that could be Orange, given their implied size and (maybe) number of limbs in #1189.
    This is an interesting theory, but I think whoever it is must have had a non-speaking role. Yes, we have a good reason for why Serini's text bubbles changed colors since the last time we "saw" her, but having two different characters who went from white text bubbles to colored ones would be a bit much, I think.
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  14. - Top - End - #854
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I don't think Roy will take on a psionic class for a couple of reasons, one being that for whatever plot/character purposes Roy needs to diversify his skill set, his ability to channel his sword's latent powers functions in that capacity; for two, I don't know when Roy will find the time to gain a level and add a class.

    If anything, I think the character development for Roy would come from Juta shedding light on what kind of person Eugene was as an adventurer, and maybe recontextualizing how Roy thinks about his dad. But I don't know at this point if that would meaningfully affect their relationship; I don't expect Eugene to go back on his promise, even if he wants to.
    That’s a good point there! Though as for time, well, there is Kraagor’s tomb XD. Thank you for the input

  15. - Top - End - #855

    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Also, Roy taking first level in another class isn't going to help him much at this point.

  16. - Top - End - #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    That leaves only two actual appearances on two pages directly after each other; it's entirely reasonable that Rich blurred them together into one in his head.
    I disagree. When someone clearly states the number in letters and then takes the time to re-state that same number as a number in parentheses, you can be sure that they're not eyeballing the number in question.
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  17. - Top - End - #857
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    What if it's Rich Burlew? I'm pretty sure that is the only comic he was in, unless you count that drawing of him at Comicon
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  18. - Top - End - #858

    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    He's also in a one panel update about why the comic was late.

  19. - Top - End - #859
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Yeah, in bed with a greenish skin tone with his wife bringing him soup, if I recall.

    (Not sure if that's still accessible to us, I'm going from memory and it's likely been 10+ years since the last time this bit of Burlew work was used. Also likely doesn't count as part of the official story + prequels, anyway.)
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  20. - Top - End - #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    I think the argument that Rich egregiously miscounted something and put that in a published book, or that he used a bunch of technicalities to dismiss appearances until he arrived at "one," doesn't make prima facie sense.
    I don't know. I'm not saying I think it happened... but... if it did, it wouldn't be all that extraordinary. Look at all the plotholes we find in movies, which are overall pretty short works reviewed by countless people. They obviously also slip a lot into books, given these are longer works managed by fewer people. This comic? Is enormous volume of content, managed by a single person.

    Not every artist is an accountant at heart, keeping detailed spreadsheets of every single character and events.
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  21. - Top - End - #861
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    He's also in a one panel update about why the comic was late.
    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    Yeah, in bed with a greenish skin tone with his wife bringing him soup, if I recall.

    (Not sure if that's still accessible to us, I'm going from memory and it's likely been 10+ years since the last time this bit of Burlew work was used. Also likely doesn't count as part of the official story + prequels, anyway.)
    I think you two are describing two separate one-panel strips, which appear side-by-side at the very bottom of this page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goblin_Priest View Post
    I don't know. I'm not saying I think it happened... but... if it did, it wouldn't be all that extraordinary. Look at all the plotholes we find in movies, which are overall pretty short works reviewed by countless people. They obviously also slip a lot into books, given these are longer works managed by fewer people. This comic? Is enormous volume of content, managed by a single person.

    Not every artist is an accountant at heart, keeping detailed spreadsheets of every single character and events.
    An accidental plot hole and the truth or falsity of a very specific promise aren't really comparable. The former merely means that the creators haven't thought through every possible implication of a given scenario; the latter means that a creator specifically chose to say something that was verifiably true or false. You could argue that The Giant simply forgot about an extra appearance, and didn't bother to double check, but I find that hard to believe, since the book with the quote we're referencing also has a shout-out to the specific thread that makes checking the veracity of his statement trivial.
    Last edited by Emanick; 2021-03-04 at 10:09 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #862
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    Yeah, in bed with a greenish skin tone with his wife bringing him soup, if I recall.

    (Not sure if that's still accessible to us, […])
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  23. - Top - End - #863
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    If you're going to argue that Rich miscounted his own work before publishing it in book form, even with the resources available to him (like the character appearances thread), you might as well argue that he meant "enemy" when he said "ally," IMO.

    In other words, there's no point in trying to figure out the meaning of Rich's statement if you don't take the statement as true.

  24. - Top - End - #864
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    I didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if someone already posted this guess. I'm thinking Tony.

    We know it will be an important ally. And we also know Durkon has Planar Ally (or equivalent) as a spell. He mentions "calling the Deva" during the battle with Malack at Girard's Gate.

    Also, Rich never said it would be a major character. And Tony has exactly one appearance. One page, one panel. It fits.

    I'll bet... one quatloo on this one.


    EDIT: Yes, Tony was already suggested. And here I was, thinking I was clever in a 29-page thread. Silly me.
    Last edited by Nazzo, the 102nd; 2021-03-04 at 10:17 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #865
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga


  26. - Top - End - #866
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Not sure if it's been suggested before and I missed it but I can only remember Vaarsuvius's master appearing once (and effortlessly dismissing the imp). If V can contact them, that's a powerful character and a logical choice
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  27. - Top - End - #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Tom View Post
    Not sure if it's been suggested before and I missed it but I can only remember Vaarsuvius's master appearing once (and effortlessly dismissing the imp). If V can contact them, that's a powerful character and a logical choice
    Aarindarius also appears in On the Origin of PCs.

  28. - Top - End - #868
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    What if it's Rich Burlew? I'm pretty sure that is the only comic he was in, unless you count that drawing of him at Comicon
    Rich Burlew has also appeared in every single physical book, just only once during the online comic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  29. - Top - End - #869
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    Default Re: Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Aarindarius also appears in On the Origin of PCs.
    He also appears a second time in the main comic, effortlessly slaying the black dragon.
    Last edited by HalfTangible; 2021-03-05 at 12:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTangible View Post
    He also appears a second time in the main comic, effortlessly slaying the black dragon.
    Heh, I actually forgot those were separate pages.

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