Major character who has only appeared on 1 page in the entire OOTS saga

[Rrmcklin]

By being worshipped on the world the Snarl created?

And what exactly would be worshiping them? They wouldn't be able to create anything of substance by themselves, so where exactly would these worshipers come from? If the answer is "The Snarl created them" that just brings up a host of other questions.

[HalfTangible]

And what exactly would be worshiping them? They wouldn't be able to create anything of substance by themselves, so where exactly would these worshipers come from? If the answer is "The Snarl created them" that just brings up a host of other questions.

We know from Thor that you don't need the full force of the fourth divine color, you just need a drop of it.

Like the Snarl, for example.

[Dion]

We know from Thor that you don't need the full force of the fourth divine color, you just need a drop of it.

Here’s my personal hypothesis: the snarl is a metaphor for what happens anytime more than one creator tries to build a consensus project.

There are conflicts. Feelings get hurt.

Shortly after genesis, the entire project gets scrapped. Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel develop their own solo careers.

The snarl is what’s left over after the project gets scrapped. A tangle of arguments and complaints and bad feelings, and the creators lose any control.

But it turns out, you can still play Forgotten Realms, or Grayhawk, or your ICE middle earth modules, even though they’re out of print. There are still people in those worlds, happily listening to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway on cassettes.

What I’m saying is that in my personal headcannon, I dont believe that the snarl actually destroys worlds. I think it just takes control away from the creators.

I doubt, however, that my headcannon will have any impact on the story that Rich is telling.

[HalfTangible]

It's pretty evident that something is going on with the Snarl, that the story we've been told shouldn't be taken at 100% face value (primarily the planet within the rift). My own theory is that the Gates did something to the Snarl. Diffused its power, or caused it to turn in on itself. Like Redcloak said in Azure City, it hadn't stepped a single tentacle out in months, until Larin tried poking through a completely different rift with her mind. The Snarl began to unravel, and form into its own world. Though this is somewhat off-topic.

I don't know if the Eastern Gods will show up. The fact that they're dead is kind of a huge sticking point for the setting; the gods can die, and that's why they fear the Snarl. If the Eastern gods ARE still alive within the Snarl, then that would raise the immediate question of "why didn't they notice this any of the billions upon billions of times the world has been destroyed before"?

It's been stated and repeated that the Snarl is a 4 color being while everything the gods make now is 3 color. The only way for the gods to get what they need is a ninth-level spell slot from Redcloak (presumably cast on the Gate) and/or the Dark One seeing reason. That's the goal, it's what the stakes are built around. Changing that goal in as significant a way as 'oh the other gods exist still' ruins the stakes.

I'm not saying Rich wouldn't be able to make that work, I'm saying that I don't see why he'd try it. (Acknowledging here that I don't have the full picture)

[Ruck]

Here’s my personal hypothesis: the snarl is a metaphor for what happens anytime more than one creator tries to build a consensus project.

There are conflicts. Feelings get hurt.

Shortly after genesis, the entire project gets scrapped. Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel develop their own solo careers.

The snarl is what’s left over after the project gets scrapped. A tangle of arguments and complaints and bad feelings, and the creators lose any control.

But it turns out, you can still play Forgotten Realms, or Grayhawk, or your ICE middle earth modules, even though they’re out of print. There are still people in those worlds, happily listening to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway on cassettes.

What I’m saying is that in my personal headcannon, I dont believe that the snarl actually destroys worlds. I think it just takes control away from the creators.

I doubt, however, that my headcannon will have any impact on the story that Rich is telling.

I'm pretty sure Rich has said the Snarl is a metaphor for the conflicts that drive gaming groups apart, but I like your theory as to how that might play into the actual world and the Snarl not being what it seems (although your examples tend not to destroy their creators the same way the Snarl does). I'm less certain on your Genesis timeline, though.

[knag]

Here’s my personal hypothesis: the snarl is a metaphor for what happens anytime more than one creator tries to build a consensus project.

There are conflicts. Feelings get hurt.

Shortly after genesis, the entire project gets scrapped. Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel develop their own solo careers.

The snarl is what’s left over after the project gets scrapped. A tangle of arguments and complaints and bad feelings, and the creators lose any control.

But it turns out, you can still play Forgotten Realms, or Grayhawk, or your ICE middle earth modules, even though they’re out of print. There are still people in those worlds, happily listening to The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway on cassettes.

What I’m saying is that in my personal headcannon, I dont believe that the snarl actually destroys worlds. I think it just takes control away from the creators.

I doubt, however, that my headcannon will have any impact on the story that Rich is telling.

This is pretty close to my thoughts on it too. The worlds are gaming worlds, and they're all contained in the Snarl, perhaps nested.

I also need to take a second look at my MERP books...

[littlebum2002]

I'm pretty sure Rich has said the Snarl is a metaphor for the conflicts that drive gaming groups apart, but I like your theory as to how that might play into the actual world and the Snarl not being what it seems (although your examples tend not to destroy their creators the same way the Snarl does). I'm less certain on your Genesis timeline, though.

And the only way to defeat the Snarl is for his old gaming group, that got driven apart by conflict, get back together. In fact, it turns out this entire comic was just written so that he could convince his old group to get together for one more adventure.

[HalfTangible]

And the only way to defeat the Snarl is for his old gaming group, that got driven apart by conflict, get back together. In fact, it turns out this entire comic was just written so that he could convince his old group to get together for one more adventure.

And the order of the scribble were their PCs?

[Metastachydium]

(although your examples tend not to destroy their creators the same way the Snarl does)

The Snarl is a poor, misunderstood creature that would never destroy anyone! All it ever does is to aperiodically try and hug the whole world, and it keeps getting imprisoned for that.

[Coyote0715]

After reading this entire thread in one shot, I wanted to add my guesses to the pile.

1) Tenrin Thundershield - Possibly even as the vessel initially

2) Holey Brotherhood - may have been initially defeated, but help the OOTS to stop the "holes" from being moved

3) Troll/Dragon trapped by Tenrin - Has had a non-negligible affect on the story (at least Durkon's). Inadvertently shields Tenrin from being immediately crushed, he learns to become a force for good (before Tenrin eventually runs out of air/water/food).

[Schroeswald]

Tenrin has been in more than one page, I believe like 2 in the crayon pages and one real flashback.

[Goblin_Priest]

Tenrin has been in more than one page, I believe like 2 in the crayon pages and one real flashback.

Imagine if the Giant said that the character only appeared once, but actually forgot a second appearance of his! Wouldn't that mess with everyone real good? :P

[facw]

Imagine if the Giant said that the character only appeared once, but actually forgot a second appearance of his! Wouldn't that mess with everyone real good? :P

Would be pretty bad. Possibly bad enough that he'd have to go pick another "ally" to add in.

In any event, I went through all the 1 appearance characters from the number of appearances thread (which of course has the limitation that it only counts named/recognizable characters) and decided that the most likely ally was the Ghost of Lame Monsters Past, which is to say I have no idea who the character is.

[Ornithologist]

Ms. Toormuck only appeared in Shojo's tale.

My vote is Serini, though she has appeared in 7 pages as per the appearance thread... she has 1 as a drawing and the rest as crayon flashbacks. All of that said, the total list of available people seems really short.

More that he didn't clarify what appearance meant. So, is he counting any kind of visual representation, like we do for the thread; or is it specifically an appearance on camera. So do in character drawings count? Do flash backs? ( my thought is yes on the flashbacks, though maybe crayon drawings dont?)

We know he likes to be tricksy and clever, so I'm going with there is some form of trickery afoot.


On a more serious thought, how many pages did the gnome artificer lady appear on... She might be helpful, if singularly unable to get there.

So, since this is looking to be tenatively Serini, I like to Congratulate Brian 333 for having the 2nd guess in thread being the right one. I was 7th guess, but also said the same.

Spoiler: Apparently I am bad at what a shot term hint is. This was December 2019

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I don't disagree with that being a cheap move, I just think its something that he might do on the basis of the prophesies.

On the the prophesies themselves, I'd argue that all but Belkar's first one have been subverted from what was expected. Well, maybe Haley's too. Point is they are full of tricks and weird meanings. saying the word I twice for example.

In any case I am expecting to be wrong on my idea, but I think defining what the Giant thinks counts as an appearance will inform us as to the total pool of people. Also, I'm really glad this is going to be a short term hint.

---

The Green voice is on two pages, but the Orange voice is on one.

I'd say if he were really trolling us it would be like the Monty Python Sketch about the Blemonges from Outer space. There is a background character with no lines from one panel in like the beginning of the 5th book who would have helped tons and knew about everything, if only the order had talked to them there...

Spoiler: Silly option. - bonus material from bk6.

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edit: I just remembered Straybot, and that would make me giggle for a long while if that somehow became the answer to the hint.

[Yanisa]

So, since this is looking to be tenatively Serini, I like to Congratulate Brian 333 for having the 2nd guess in thread being the right one. I was 7th guess, but also said the same.

Spoiler: Apparently I am bad at what a shot term hint is. This was December 2019

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I just want to point out that Serini has had more than 1 appearance, so it can't be her. (196, 276, 277 and probably 1189.)

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. Also this probably has been already pointed out.

[Sir_Norbert]

Yup. Posted to the wrong thread, maybe? We have (a very strong guess as to) the identity of the Green Voice now, but the one-appearance character is still unknown.

[Goblin_Priest]

I just want to point out that Serini has had more than 1 appearance, so it can't be her. (196, 276, 277 and probably 1189.)

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. Also this probably has been already pointed out.

She's also not acting very ally-ish.

[Bedinsis]

With the new revelation that Serini was one of the voices in #1189 I went to check if Kraagor had had many appearances. The appearances thread however claimed he had had 18, so it's not him.

Anyway: I think the major ally is gonna be the orange voice at the end of #1189, and that is a character that has not been shown before(it may have been talked about like Buggy Lou, but I doubt it).

I further speculate that Serini is gonna be in opposition to the Order, but once orange voice realizes what Serini is planning they are gonna rebel and become an order ally.

[Ron Miel]

She's also not acting very ally-ish.

Neither did Shinjo, when we first met him.

[Ephemera]

I just want to point out that Serini has had more than 1 appearance, so it can't be her. (196, 276, 277 and probably 1189.)

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. Also this probably has been already pointed out.

It's not that much of a stretch to say that neither the journal page (this one is pretty solid) or the crayon flashbacks (more questionable) count in the Giant's saying the person has only appeared once. It would be cheating a little, but it's still a plausible interpretation, especially since it seems pretty likely that Serini is going to have a major part to play, and you wouldn't think the Giant wants to introduce _too_ many new major players (although you can't rule out a final act where we find out that the story isn't the one we thought we were reading and the stakes are totally different, involving different characters).

[Dire_Flumph]

The other problem with it being Serini is that she not only breaks the literal requirement of only appearing on one page, she also misses the other requirement. From the Giant:

"What, you still want a hint of something specific yet to come? Something you're not expecting?"

Can you really say that no one was expecting Serini to show up?

[Ephemera]

I think that's an overstatement of the giant's point. The realm of things that literally no one here is expecting is essentially a null set; a more reasonable read of this is "surprise to many readers."

[Sir_Norbert]

I think it's a good point. We didn't know whether Serini would be alive or not (though her being alive was always more likely, because we need her to give exposition on the Scribblers and their break-up); but everyone expected we would find out her status and this would be a key revelation in this book.

[arimareiji]

I think that's an overstatement of the giant's point. The realm of things that literally no one here is expecting is essentially a null set; a more reasonable read of this is "surprise to many readers."

Well sure, if you want to be reasonable. (^_~)

I'm a little surprised this is still being debated... the title of 1226 is the best possible two-word synopsis you could make for the first four posts of this thread.

Spoiler: quotes collapsed for space

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Figured I'd make a thread where people can speculate who this might be, as mentioned in the preview for Book 7:

So far I'm thinking either the orange voice from #1189 or Shoulderpad Guy (whose only other appearance was a minor cameo in Haleo & Julelan). Or maybe it's whoever was casting the green scrying eye from strip #698.

Ms. Toormuck only appeared in Shojo's tale.

Orange Voice seems like the most obvious prospect.

Not quite - Serini was in multiple pages in Shojo's story, and she was also seen (with the rest of the Order of the Scribble) in the crayon section of Start of Darkness.

A silly question with a point: At the time the Giant wrote those words, would anyone have said that a celebrity who pre-recorded a video for an event "made an appearance" (despite not being there in person)?

Even in a webcomic, there's a difference between someone showing up and a replayed image of them showing up.

[Yanisa]

A silly question with a point: At the time the Giant wrote those words, would anyone have said that a celebrity who pre-recorded a video for an event "made an appearance" (despite not being there in person)?

Even in a webcomic, there's a difference between someone showing up and a replayed image of them showing up.

A silly counterpoint: by that logic Serini has made exactly zero appearances before the Giant wrote those words. Which still invalidates the one appearance clause.


Edit: On a slightly more serieus note, that is how "we" have been counting in the "Number of Character Appearances VII"-Thread. It listed Serini as 2 appearances in the comic, and 2 in the extra comics of printed books. All cases of flashbacks.
The diary entry however didn't count there (that one is under Other Interesting Alterations).

[Ruck]

I do think Serini is not someone who could be considered an "unexpected ally," given that the only reason we know who she is at all is that she was part of an adventuring team decades ago that was attempting essentially the same mission as the Order is here.

[arimareiji]

A silly counterpoint: by that logic Serini has made exactly zero appearances before the Giant wrote those words. Which still invalidates the one appearance clause.

1189, which shows the mysterious green-voiced assailant, was the last comic in book 6.
We're talking about the book 6 commentary.
Most people seem to now agree that Serini was the mysterious green-voiced assailant in 1189, not that that necessarily makes it certain.

[Yanisa]

1189, which shows the mysterious green-voiced assailant, was the last comic in book 6.
We're talking about the book 6 commentary.
Most people seem to now agree that Serini was the mysterious green-voiced assailant in 1189, not that that necessarily makes it certain.

You don't see her. You cannot appear if no one can see you. It is a silly counterpoint after all.

Speaking about semantics, the original statement talks about pages, not comics, not strips but indeed pages. The Green Voice appears on multiple pages.

[Pory]

Guys, how do you interpret this marked part?

What, you still want a hint of something specific yet to come? Something you're not expecting? OK, how about this: Someone who has appeared in exactly one (1) page of the story so far (including all the prequel stories) will become an important ally in the first half of the next book. Good luck figuring that one out

It's "Good luck figuring that one out " or "Good luck figuring that one out "

I think it's the second one, Rich likes to surprise/troll us so I don't think it's an "obvious" answer and that's why we can't rule out the dead... or whose ally we are talking about here.

That said, my choice is Orrin Draketooth. I'm not the first to say this, I searched in this thread and the last time someone mentioned him was in 2019 but now we have more information. We know now that the green voice is a very changed Serini (well, I'm 99,5% sure) and she talks that way because she is half-dead or needs some magic mojo to stay alive or whatever it is that turned half of her body green-ish.
I know that saying that the orange voice has to be Orrin because all his family were red haired is an oversimplification but the fact is that it's implied that Serini and Girard had some kind of relationship and we know that Girard was a very paranoid guy that only trusted in his family, it could be the reason that he send one of his sons/grandsons to stay with Serini in order to maintain contact because he trusted her enough to do that.
So, Orrin maybe suffered a destiny similar to Serini's or he was "revived" using the same method after familicide killed him. His family has relation with dragons so maybe he could transform into one, that will explain the way he grabs Lien and O-Chul in 1189. Also, the drawings of dragons that we see on the wall of the warehouse could be from Orrin's daughter...now that I think about it, all that stuff can be said about her too but she's only fifteen, I hope not

[arimareiji]

You don't see her. You cannot appear if no one can see you. It is a silly counterpoint after all.

Speaking about semantics, the original statement talks about pages, not comics, not strips but indeed pages. The Green Voice appears on multiple pages.

Well, I guess if we're going for the jackpot on silly then obviously the Giant was talking about Roy who has only "appeared" once (as a result of being resurrected). If the definitions "was physically present", "reflected photons in the visible light spectrum", "was presented to the public", and "seems likely" are all equally credible, then I guess "popped into existence" is fair game as well. (^_^)b