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  1. - Top - End - #871
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Does Amulet of Tears et al. work?
    I'm not seeing why it wouldn't.

  2. - Top - End - #872
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    +1 seems plenty to me. Yeah at the first few levels it might be stronger than an equivalent human of the same class it takes after its RHD, but, I think factoring in that it doesnt stay that far ahead is important and worth only giving it +1.

  3. - Top - End - #873
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I can see this going either way as 1 or 2.
    I vote +2.
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  4. - Top - End - #874
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    Logically perhaps, but not by RAW.
    So similar to being blind having no effect on the spot skill then?...

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    Post Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I have a real soft spot for these guys...

    Maug

    • Large construct (extraplanar) with reach.
    • 40 ft speed, but can't run.
    • +7 natural AC: not bad.
    • Slam 1d8 (2 slams would make more sense for a large creature, IMHO).
    • Pulverise: 3/day negate hardness of an object. Could be useful for breaking and entering.
    • Construct traits: great for immunities, not so great for ongoing hit points.
    • Grafts: free* 2,000gp worth of grafts. Some not-so-great to good graft options available.
    • Rapid repair: handy for something without a Con score for out of combat healing.
    • SR 14 which scales: decent.
    • Str +10, Dex +4, Con --, Int +2, Cha +2: net +18, one very notable non-ability.
    • OK-ish racial skill list. Note on the "skills as an outsider thing": this seemed to be a pretty general 3.0 rule for assigning skills to normally mindless creature types. +4 racial bonus to Craft (stonemasonry) and Knowledge (A&E). Meh.
    • Alertness as a bonus feat, and presumably proficient with the two-bladed sword. If you go Warblade, that could equal proficiency with any exotic weapon using Weapon Aptitude.

    Large humanoid in form, and can speak. Seems somewhat shoehorned into a beatstick role, but could also make a gishy caster, I guess. The downsides are 2 RHD (which is the second least-worst amount to have) and no Con score. You get +30 hp from type, which helps at lower levels, but as you level up, you really want hp as a beatstick. Improved Toughness, Faerie Mysteries Initiate, sources of temp hp etc. may help.

    All in all, good fit for Warblade IMHO; you'll appreciate those d12 HD.

    I'm torn here. I really, really want these guys to be playable, but they may be overpowered at +1. I'm going to vote LA +2 for now, subject to change. With +2, you'll still have the potential get 9th level maneuvers (just).

  6. - Top - End - #876
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyNotEvil View Post
    - Speed 40 ft (tho they can't run).
    Quote Originally Posted by liquidformat View Post
    So Interesting question, Maug can't run so doesn't that also mean they can't make a charge attack? There for expressly no pounce nor uber charger on the table for Maugs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    • 40 ft speed, but can't run.
    That's because the maug in the statblock is wearing heavy armour though. Take it off and their base speed would be 60ft.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2020-05-28 at 06:24 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #877
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    That's because the maug in the statblock is wearing heavy armour though. Take it off and their base speed would be 60ft.
    Hmm, interesting...so they either have a higher base move, or the ability to ignore armor speed reduction like dwarves do. Since the latter is not listed, the higher base speed makes more sense.

    Personally, I would assume it's just a stat block error (60 ft speed seems a bit odd for a large Construct), but I can't back that up with any RAW.

    I think the "cannot run" was a 3.0 rule for all Constructs, but appears to no longer be a default rule in 3.5.

  8. - Top - End - #878
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Put me down for +2 as well. At their official +3 the HP loss was just too massive, but evn at +3 their myraid advantages were fantastic. +2 seems like a good compromise.

  9. - Top - End - #879
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Have I ever mentioned that I love democracy?

    +1: 3 votes
    +2: 5 votes

    +2 is favored by the majority, LA will remain unchanged, next monster up soon!
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2020-05-31 at 10:32 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #880
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Maulgoth


    You mean those teenaged Hot Topic customers?

    Anyway, maulgoths are... not great. 20 aberration HD aren't a great start, and compared to other creatures of that power level, ability scores that don't go above 30 are kind of disappointing. 60 ft. burrow/walk/climb speed is okay, a 2d8 bite is okay, four 20 ft. reach 2d6 tentacles are neat. Tremorsense is still moderately useful, DR 15/magic adamantine is okay, and SR 37 is actually pretty great.

    The special abilities, however, are lacking. Perfect Climbing is ridiculously niche, Xorn Movement is only marginally better, and Improved Grab/Constrict really isn't that great at these levels. Ethereal Jolt is interesting: it's an extraordinary save-or-lose fortitude-targeting touch attack, and might honestly be the most spammable of its abilities. Sure, sending foes to the ethereal plane isn't a long-term solution (and in more than one case, basically useless) but it's still a good attack!

    Finally, the SLAs, which are mostly drawn from the druid list. At-will CLW, Stone Tell, and Transmute Mud/Rock to Rock/Mud are nice, everything else is pretty situational. Out of the three 5/day abilities, only True Seeing and Wall of Stone are worth mentioning.

    All in all, the maulgoth has a decent chassis, disappointing SLAs, bad special abilities, and a pretty neat banishing attack. Even so, I don't think anything more than +0 is reasonable here, and I'm not even going to assign that: -0 for now, open to other viewpoints.
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  11. - Top - End - #881
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I'm torn here. I really, really want these guys to be playable, but they may be overpowered at +1. I'm going to vote LA +2 for now, subject to change. With +2, you'll still have the potential get 9th level maneuvers (just).
    Yeah I kind of had a similar thought these things are pretty powerful and I think up until level 10 they do deserve a +2 but after 10th level +1 seems more reasonable and around 15 they aren't adding enough for an LA. So all and all they are another example of great for LA Buy off. I think more than anything these threads have shown me how useful and good the LA buy-off system is.

    I am not seeing an argument for anything over -0 LA on Maulgoth
    Last edited by liquidformat; 2020-05-31 at 03:20 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #882
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Eh, a fair melee chassis with a mix of curious, mediocre and decent abilities.

    BAB is only 3/4 but you have five decent natural attacks which makes up for it. Stats aren't out of this world but they are all chunky: +18/+14/+16/+6/+6/+8. AC is pretty good too, at +24 NA and that DEX in the 20s.

    A Huge grappling monster which an earth theme isn't exciting, but it's solid enough when you account for its miscellaneous bonuses. SR 37 really is no joke

    Call it +0. You won't shame yourself or anything.
    Last edited by TotallyNotEvil; 2020-05-31 at 04:17 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #883
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    Exclamation Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Maul Goth



    ...sorry, Maulgoth.



    Honestly, I can't see anything above LA -0. It has some nifty abilities, but at ECL 20? It's SLAs are cool, but nothing compared to the spells your contemporaries will be throwing around, and I'm not convinced your melee damage output will keep up with a decently built melee type with 20 levels. You have some decent stats boosts, and a few other tricks up your sleeve, but I'm not seeing anything close to making up 20 class levels.

    Voting LA -0 for now, unless I see a convincing argument otherwise. I may do a more detailed breakdown if I end up with time on my hands.

  14. - Top - End - #884
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Oh, I forgot to vote on the maug! I like +2 for the maug.

    -----

    As for the maulgoth... I'm always really uncomfortable voting on high-level monsters, and this one seems like a "middle of the road" sort: it's obviously not just a simple brute because its abilities have some variety and versatility, but it's also not completely overloaded with stuff like a lot of outsiders at this level are. So, it doesn't seem obvious to me which way it should. Maybe I'll call it LA +0 for the Maulgoth, just to be conservative.

    I do have a quirky little rules question about the maulgoth. Tremorsense works when in contact with the ground. But, since a maulgoth can walk on the ceiling, will its Tremorsense detect other creatures in contact with the ceiling while it's up there? It seems like it ought to. Not that that's going to come up very often, or anything.
    Last edited by Blue Jay; 2020-05-31 at 07:16 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #885
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    • Huge aberration (earth) 15 ft reach, 20 ft with tentacles.
    • 20 RHD of an unimpressive kind (medium BAB, one good save, 2 skills points/HD), and no room for class levels pre-epic.
    • 60 ft speed, burrow 60 ft, climb 60 ft (+ perfect climbing and Xorn movement): very respectable movement rates/methods.
    • +24 natural AC: decent.
    • 4 tentacles 2d6 and bite 2d8: you can hold a mouth-pick weapon, I guess. Otherwise manipulation of tools/objects seems pretty difficult.
    • Constrict/improved grab: nice for any grappler build.
    • Ethereal jolt: Fort save based save or lose, although it doesn't actually finish off enemies.
    • SLAs: at will - calm animals, control plants, cure light wounds, dominate animal, soften earth and stone, stone tell, transmute mud to rock, transmute rock to mud; 5/day - cure serious wounds, true seeing, wall of stone. CL 13. Its a mixed bag there. Control Plants is an 8th level at will, and allows for some limited duration minionmancy, but like so many of their SLAs, is quite situational. Unlimited out of combat healing is OK, but at this level, largely redundant.
    • Darkvision 60 ft, tremorsense 60 ft: decent senses.
    • DR 15 magic and adamantine: also decent.
    • SR 37: very solid SR here.
    • Str +18, Dex +14, Con +16, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +8: +68, no penalties. No complaints here, although maybe the Str boost could be higher at this level.
    • Small but useful list of racial skills.

    Non-humanoid in form, and no manipulative digits. You can speak, which is good. Basically you are a melee bruiser/grappler, with at at will save or vanish attack, a mixed bag of SLAs (most of not very high level), good movement options, decent resilience and decent ability mods.

    Can you stand shoulder to shoulder with most 20th level PCs? My gut says no. Yes, you can attack, grapple and send people to the ethereal - but I feel a decently built melee type is going to outpace you on damage output, and possibly versatility as well, once you factor in class options and gear.

    I think this would make a decent high level fight for a party, but as a PC? I think it's just a bit lacking. At less HD? Would definitely be harder to call. I think at around 16 HD or so I would be happy to call this a +0.

  16. - Top - End - #886
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    CR...17? Well, as a boss fight for early-teen level parties or part of a larger encounter it could work. As a player? Eh... nah. LA -0.
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  17. - Top - End - #887
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    A -0. A decent foe but just not enough for a PC.

  18. - Top - End - #888
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Looks like a 20th level totemist to me. You have to squint when looking at the spell likes +0. I wanted to agree with Thurbanes assessment on the things damage, but it looked pretty consistant with a beatstick I have built on mythweavers. That SR and NA and Dex are going to give it several advantages when looking at equipment to cover its weaknesses.

  19. - Top - End - #889
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutr View Post
    Looks like a 20th level totemist to me. You have to squint when looking at the spell likes +0. I wanted to agree with Thurbanes assessment on the things damage, but it looked pretty consistant with a beatstick I have built on mythweavers. That SR and NA and Dex are going to give it several advantages when looking at equipment to cover its weaknesses.
    Totemists are more versatile and can get more natural attacks. Also Totem Rager is a thing and in general you can get an actual build going instead of being forced into this with a level of Barbarian.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
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  20. - Top - End - #890
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Totemists are more versatile and can get more natural attacks. Also Totem Rager is a thing and in general you can get an actual build going instead of being forced into this with a level of Barbarian.
    Yep I agree. That doesn't necessitate that this isn't playable, just that there is a stronger build.

  21. - Top - End - #891
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutr View Post
    Yep I agree. That doesn't necessitate that this isn't playable, just that there is a stronger build.
    Truenamers are playable if you know what you’re doing, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a total trainwreck.
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  22. - Top - End - #892
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Megatherium


    Big sloth.

    Anyway, pretty substandard animal with 13 RHD, huge size, some good physical stats and the default special abilities. You could convince your DM that this can totally wield weapons and be a so-so bruiser, or you can fail to do so and spend your time clawing and grabbing stuff instead. Both are pretty unremarkable character builds, and neither seems like it should deserve more than -0 LA.

    What, you want another paragraph? uhhhh Thurbane's joke was honestly genius and I'm jealous I didn't think of it myself, there.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2020-06-03 at 03:41 PM.
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  23. - Top - End - #893
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    What, you want another paragraph? uhhhh Thurbane's joke was honestly genius and I'm jealous I didn't think of it myself, there.
    Thanks.

    Yeah, 13 HD animal...nothing truly unique or impressive to show for it. LA -0 from me.

  24. - Top - End - #894
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Yes, LA -0 for Megatherium. The real-life (fossil) animal was really fascinating from a biology perspective, but that doesn't often translate into interesting game mechanics.

  25. - Top - End - #895
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Boring -0 LA

  26. - Top - End - #896
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Animals are pretty bad in general and 13 HD is too many. -0.

  27. - Top - End - #897
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    easy -0 LA for the Megatherium, poor useless giant angry sloth....

  28. - Top - End - #898
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Mongrelfolk


    "We need a new monster, any ideas?"
    "What about repulsive gremlins who have been turned lawful, dumb, and cowardly by generations of crossbreeding?"
    "I see no flaw in this plan."

    Anyway, mongrelfolk are fine at +0, you already knew that. Emulate Race is kinda neat but not that great, Sound Imitation is actually a neat little utility ability, and +4 constitution/-2 intelligence/-4 charisma is pretty reasonable as far as stats go. +0 LA, next.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2020-06-07 at 08:11 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #899
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    "We need a new monster, any ideas?"
    "What about repulsive gremlins who have been turned lawful, dumb, and cowardly by generations of inbreeding?"
    "I see no flaw in this plan."
    Isn't the process that created the mongrelfolk basically the opposite of inbreeding, though?

  30. - Top - End - #900
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by NontheistCleric View Post
    Isn't the process that created the mongrelfolk basically the opposite of inbreeding, though?
    Meant to say crossbreeding, fixed it, don't think it's much better now though. :P
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