Results 271 to 300 of 1490
-
2020-01-19, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Unlike "not being a legal target" (like enlarge person on a giant), "being immune" stops the effect of a spell, not the targeting; your immunity to mind-affecting effects would suppress any morale bonus in any round in which you did not take a standard action to drop your immunity.
As an example, consider Team Solar. It did not rely on mind blank explicitly because it blocks morale bonuses, preferring empyreal ecstasy instead. Mind blank could easily have been applied after all morale bonuses, but that wouldn't have allowed the morale bonuses through.
It's not that hard to be immune to the nastiest of mind-affecting effects. Shape Soulmeld (planar ward), for example, is quite effective, being equivalent to protection from evil. Being a necropolitan is another classic way of becoming immune to just about everything. These are cheap abilities; they cost about 1000 XP (half the cost of necropolitan, the other half being immunity to energy drain, disease, poison, physical ability damage, etcetera), 4000 gp (item of continous protection from evil), a feat, or a level in a class. All of these costs are easier to bear than LA +1.
In other words: If I wanted a character immune to mind-affecting effects, why would I accept LA +1 instead of taking a level in incarnate, a level in artificer, or a crash course in undead maintenance?Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
-
2020-01-19, 09:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2020-01-19, 09:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
You need a standard action to drop spell resistance:
A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless.
A creature can voluntarily forego a saving throw and willingly accept a spell’s result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic (for example, an elf’s resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.
They're not remotely the same thing. As such, LA: +1. You are absolutely immune to your own bard song, and you can absolutely drop that immunity, and it absolutely doesn't require any actions of any type whatsoever. There is zero indication that suppressing an immunity, other than Spell Immunity(TM), requires a standard action.
-
2020-01-19, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Kaeda
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Put me down for +0. Yes, it's a bit strong for that, but I don't think it's quite strong enough to warrant +1. I admit I tend to err on the side of giving players more power rather than less.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
My Homebrewer's Extended Signature
-
2020-01-19, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- The Old West
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
I don't think I've seen anyone voting +1 respond to the question of whether or not this is stronger than Planetouched. I think it's important to address, since a few people have voted +0 on the basis that they think it's weaker
Avatar by linklele
Spoiler: Build Contests
E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand
-
2020-01-19, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
This is certainly one possible reading, but I don't think it's the only possible reading. What you're doing here is extrapolating from a subsection of a subsection of the rules for how spells work. Bardic Music is not a spell, and none of the music abilities that grant morale bonuses are spell-like, so applying rules from the section about Spell Saving Throws is no more valid than applying rules from the section about Spell Resistance: either way, you're extrapolating from a parallel example to resolve an ambiguity.
There are no rules anywhere that explain the mechanics of immunity to Su or Ex effects, so if you want to be a real rules lawyer about stuff, you have to conclude that you can't suppress immunity to Su or Ex abilities at all: you can only suppress immunity to spells/SLAs. So, you could benefit from bless or aid, but not from Bardic Music.
Personally, I wouldn't allow immunity to be a selective filter: I would only allow "up" or "down" states, like Spell Resistance. That's not strictly RAW, but I think it's justifiable by RAI, because while the section on "Voluntarily Failing a Saving Throw" says you can suppress immunity, it doesn't say how this is done, so I would interpret that as leaving it open for the DM to extrapolate.
But, even if we go with your interpretation, I'm now sorely tempted to drop to LA +0 anyway, just because of what others have pointed out about the poison dusk lizardfolk and planetouched. I think all of these are right on the line between LA +0 and LA +1: they're clearly superior to most of the standard races, but it's not one whole level's worth of superiority. I guess I'm staying with LA +1, and just hoping that mine isn't the deciding vote.Last edited by Blue Jay; 2020-01-19 at 12:25 PM.
-
2020-01-19, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2019
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
-
2020-01-19, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Also immune to patterns and phantasms fwiw.
Last edited by Efrate; 2020-01-19 at 01:26 PM.
-
2020-01-19, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- New York
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
+0 is my vote. Strong +0 but I dont think theyre +1
-
2020-01-19, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
I wonder at what point we end up saying, "this is clearly more powerful than an elf or a dwarf, but <reel off list of races that are somewhere between 0 & 1> aren't significantly less powerful than <latest dubious race>, so clearly <dubious race> must be +0 as well..."
Anyone would surmise that being slightly behind the curve for a mere three levels is the worst thing in the world.
-
2020-01-19, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- The Old West
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
It's a worthwhile comparison, in this case, because they are quite similar to the Planetouched
Edit: not only that, but if we don't compare occasionally, we're likely to be very inconsistent. If that means adjusting a past entry (I think that's only happened once) or reconsidering our vote for a current monster, it's far more valuable than it is convoluted.Last edited by Luccan; 2020-01-19 at 02:57 PM.
Avatar by linklele
Spoiler: Build Contests
E6 Iron Chef XVI Shared First Place: Black Wing
E6 Iron Chef XXI Shared Second Place: The Shadow's Hand
-
2020-01-19, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
(1) As Blue Jay said, that's only for spells and special resistance/immunity to magic. Bardic music isn't a spell that allows a save, and "immunity to mind-affecting spells and effects" isn't a resistance to magic (since it includes non-magical mind-affecting effects), so you can't voluntarily suppress it.
(2) You can voluntarily fail a save as part of making that save (i.e. not an action), I agree. Suppressing an immunity, however, isn't part of making a save, I don't think. The absence of an action specified is a bit troubling, but I wouldn't immediately jump to "no action cost at all". Then again, by that rule, you can't even suppress immunity to mind-affecting effects, so the point is moot.
Nevermind other races, it's clearly behind a class level in a tier 4 class (Incarnate). That's the standard LA +1 has to meet.Spoiler: Collectible nice thingsMy incarnate/crusader. A self-healing crowd-control melee build (ECL 8).
My Ruby Knight Vindicator barsader. A party-buffing melee build (ECL 14).
Doctor Despair's and my all-natural approach to necromancy.
-
2020-01-19, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Last edited by Bavarian itP; 2020-01-19 at 02:57 PM.
shipping Sabine/Vaarsuvius
-
2020-01-19, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Baator (aka Britain)
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Yes, thank you. I'm well aware of that.
That would be a more reassuring statement if people didn't keep popping up to say, with all seriousness, that X race is less powerful than a wizard using shapechange and thus X race's LA should be reduced because of that.
-
2020-01-19, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Well, elven immunity to sleep effects isn't just for the Sleep spell, no? At least I think. Come to think of it, what other methods are there?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2020-01-20, 02:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Michigan
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
I'm going +1, barely
-
2020-01-20, 03:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2015
- Location
- Paris
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
That's a weak LA +1 for me too. Being immune to Inspire Courage can be solved by ensuring you don't pick a Feytouched PC if you know a teammate plan to play a Bard - the benefits of being immune to a crapton of effects, some of then quite nasty, far outweigh this minor inconvenience.
Last edited by remetagross; 2020-01-20 at 03:48 AM.
VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
VC XVI, Burn baby burn:Nero
VC XVIII, This is Heresy! Torquemada
VC XX, Elder Evil: Henry Bowyer
And a repository of deliciously absurd sentences produced by maddened optimisers in my extended signature
-
2020-01-20, 05:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
-
2020-01-20, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
-
2020-01-20, 06:40 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
You're welcome to. Thanks.
-
2020-01-20, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
So being able to cast protection from Evil (or other alignments) is worth a +1 LA? PFE can be cast by a first level character and even at level 1 has a duration long enough to last an entire combat. Yes being immune to most of the enchantment school is an issue but it is an issue across the game and is one of if not the easiest immunity to get in the game. I don't rate this immunity very high because it can be replicated so easily, it isn't worth an LA.
There are a few of poisons that cause sleep, pretty sure the only reason elves have that ability is to combat drow...
Actually I am not sure that rule is worth the ink it was written with. First of all it calls the elf's ability a resistance, but its not a resistance it is an immunity (granted they maybe talking about elf's resistance to enchantments and not sleep and just screwed up). Second of all it talks about letting yourself fail a save which brings up a host of issues. For starters immunities bypass saves altogether so you never get to the point to make a save and therefore can't voluntarily fail it. Secondly in the case of bardic music specifically, inspire courage, inspire competence, inspire greatness, inspire freedom, nor inspire Heroics allow a save.
-
2020-01-20, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
On feytouched to planetouched:
Both have net positive stats. Slight advantage planetouched.
Both are immune to X person effects, due to typing. A wash but see below.
Both have different alternate form options for alter self et. al. affects. Plantouched advantage.
Both get a low level SLA, with charm person being a generally superior option feytouched.
Pretty equal until you get to immunity to mind effecting. It is a drastic upgrade from mere PFE or a soulmeld, which protect against charms and compulsions.
You also get immunity to sleep effects.
Immunity to detect thoughts and arguably mindsight.
Immunity to all fear effects, frightful presence, demoralization, which is an entire skill (as applied to pcs) and a host of auras and abilities of many monsters, and a large portion of necromancy spells and affects.
Immunity to patterns and phamtasm which is some (admittedly usually minor) illusion spells and affects.
Immunity to morale affects. This hoses your party bard unless he is using DFI which is NOT a morale bonus as far as I can tell, the feat says for each point of morale bonus instead add xd6 but its not called out as any particular type of bonus. It also means some buffs will not work on you from various lists, but the turning off immumity ambiguity might negate that, YMMV.
That is clearly superior IMO over plantouched, or a level in incarnate, so that is why I go +1.
-
2020-01-20, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
So interesting question, where in the rules does it say demoralizing/intimidation is a Mind-Affecting effect? from looking around I am not seeing any such correlation by RAW. Also any I am not sure you can blanket immune all Frightful presence abilities, if they aren't expressly called out as Mind-Affecting effects I don't think it can be considered one by RAW....
-
2020-01-20, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
The mechanics of immunity seem to be very poorly described in general. It's a bit of an extrapolation, but the entries for creature types that have immunity to mind-affecting (construct, ooze, plant and undead) list "morale effects" as one of the types of mind-affecting effects. I think it was clearly the RAI, but it wasn't made explicitly clear.
-----
Also, I think I'm going to switch sides and alter my vote to LA +0: I'm not sure there's a clear enough difference in power between feytouched and planetouched. I'm a bit worried about power creep, and maybe there's a whole cohort of "LA +1/2" types that would be best dealt with by a DM applying some minor tweaks to even things out.
I'll edit my vote in my earlier post.Last edited by Blue Jay; 2020-01-20 at 01:44 PM.
-
2020-01-20, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2014
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects. Explicitly.
Srd, special abiltites fear.
Frightful presence under abilities references both shaken and frightened conditions which are explicitly called out as fear effects.
Intimidate calls out bonuses to fear, and demoralizaion specifically gives the shaken condition, which is explicitly a fear effect.
-
2020-01-20, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Terra Australis
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Pixie sleep arrows (Ex) (as also used by Thorn and Hybsil). They are tagged as Ex.
Drow Sleep Poison?
...and plenty of Supernaturals:
Brass Dragon breath (Su)
Dream Serpent gaze (Su)
Dreamfane sleep touch (Su)
Jackalwere sleep gaze (Su)
Luna Moth sleep dust (Su)
Petal sleep songs (Su)
Shaedling sleeping curse (Su)
Tirbana sleep drone (Su)My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
-
2020-01-20, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Oh, cool. I guess I have read (and forgotten) about them. Thurbane, you're delightfully thorough.
-
2020-01-21, 05:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
+0: 6 votes
+1: 10 votes
The LA will remain at +1. New monster soon.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
A new Junkyard Wars round is up! Come join Weapon Bond + Weapon Specialization - Fighter!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2020-01-21, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Location
- Arcadia
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
Fhorge
Dangerous extraplanar swine, and food for an extremely lame pun!
Fhorge have 12 magical beast HD, are large-sized, and have the stat spread you'd expect: great strength, good constitution, some wisdom, low dexterity and charisma, and abysmal intelligence. Their one natural attack is a bite with improved grab and Worry (which deals automatic bite damage to a grabbed target each round).
Furthermore, they have the boar-like ability to keep fighting at negative HP, the badger-like ability to fly in a rage during combat, and the orc-like ability to charge for double damage.
I could see this making for an okay one-dimensional charger, but in practice it's not going to be outdamaging a dedicated humanoid. Being quadruped, and not innately getting weapons to use, also does not help. Also, taking damage in combat makes you fly in a berserk rage you can't control, so there's that too.
-0 LA, maybe worth playing in a very odd campaign.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
A new Junkyard Wars round is up! Come join Weapon Bond + Weapon Specialization - Fighter!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
Extended signature!
-
2020-01-21, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
- Gender
Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism
LA -0 for the CR 9 angry pork chop. What's next?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.