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  1. - Top - End - #301
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    -0 too many hd for not enough.

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Yeah LA -0 of course.
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  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    What does it say about WotC that I was willing to accept without question the existence of a sentient blacksmith's forge as a monster?

    I didn't even blink. I even had a joke lined up for it about setting a Mimic on fire.

    -0
    Last edited by Debatra; 2020-01-21 at 07:32 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Pretty straightforward -0 too many hd too few things to do...

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    What does it say about WotC that I was willing to accept without question the existence of a sentient blacksmith's forge as a monster?
    And what does it say about this monster that I would have preferred that absolutely bonkers idea?

    anyway, -0 for this one.
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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    What does it say about WotC that I was willing to accept without question the existence of a sentient blacksmith's forge as a monster?

    I didn't even blink. I even had a joke lined up for it about setting a Mimic on fire.

    -0
    Would have made for a better monster I am sure! Also you could pair them up with that blacksmith fey from frostburn, brainfarting on the name...

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Obvious LA -0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    I even had a joke lined up for it about setting a Mimic on fire.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Also, Worry is going to be less what you'll be inflicting on your enemies and more what you'll be doing once you actually calculate your damage output.
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  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Question Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Not much to say here. 12 animal HD, animal intelligence, non-humanoid form, inability to speak, no manipulative digits...in exhange you get decent Str and Con, improved grab, rage, worry, ferocity and scent.

    I mean, its not the least playable animal I've seen, but 12HD is just too much. Easy LA -0.

    Is it just me, or does WotC seem to have quite a lot of killer boar type monsters?

  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Not much to say here. 12 animal HD, animal intelligence, non-humanoid form, inability to speak, no manipulative digits...in exhange you get decent Str and Con, improved grab, rage, worry, ferocity and scent.

    I mean, its not the least playable animal I've seen, but 12HD is just too much. Easy LA -0.

    Is it just me, or does WotC seem to have quite a lot of killer boar type monsters?
    There's normal boars, dire boars, wereboars, and weredireboars in core alone - there's a monster called a Tusk Terror that's a boar with huge tusks, and there's probably at least one or two more somewhere.

    Gets really boaring, I'd say.
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  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Gets really boaring, I'd say.


    Gathra (kind of) from FF
    Nightmare Beast from MM2.
    Razor Boar from MM2.

  12. - Top - End - #312
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Flame Snake


    Animal + Element = three and a half pages filled.

    All flame snakes share the fire subtype, scent, and the ability to deal extra fire damage with their touch. They come in three sizes.

    Flame Snake, Minor

    These small-sized magical beasts only have one RHD. They receive a large dexterity bonus, a little strength, and a smaller intelligence penalty (only -4) than most beasts of this level would. Their sole natural attack is a bite that deals 1d4 damage (plus 1d6 fire) and injects a strength-damaging poison that also deals gradual fire damage for a minute or so.

    Additionally, once per day minor flame snakes can cast CL3 Burning Hands. 3d4 fire damage is just enough to consistently knock out first-level goblins and kobolds, but rapidly becomes useless at higher levels.

    While a fire immunity is never bad, and the stats are reasonably well-suited to a rogue, the lack of limbs is a large burden that remains as the bonuses fade. That said, it's just barely enough for a +0.

    Flame Snake, Lesser

    The medium size, tail sting, fast healing, uncanny dodge, and ability to spit magma simply don't make up for eight magical beast HD, not even when you add in the slightly bigger overall numbers. -0 LA.

    Flame Snake, Greater

    With seventeen RHD, this snake has one niche and one niche only: tank a few attacks, explode in someone's face, and reroll as something better. -0 LA.
    Last edited by Inevitability; 2020-02-26 at 03:57 PM.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I honestly can't get enthused to write up any detailed breakdown of these critters. Lets just say I agree with LA -0 all around for now.

  14. - Top - End - #314
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    The lesser and greater are definitely both -0 LA.

    However, I'm somewhat conflicted on the minor one. It gets +2 str +6 dex and -4 int. It gets the fire subtype, which is a bit of a double edged sword. It's bite is not completely useless, and qualifies it for mouthpick weapons. It gets decent speed for its size, and a climb speed is not completely useless.

    Now for the bad parts, it doesn't get hands, and it explicitly isn't capable of speech (though it can understand ignan).

    Lastly, it gets all of this without paying any RHD, as it's one HD can be exchanged for a class level. I personally think it breaks the boundary for +0 LA. It's only really useful in a combat heavy dungeon-crawl without having to get really inventive. It's lack of hands should not hurt in all that many circumstances. It's body shape hand climb speed should allow it to open non-locked doors, and locked doors it can open the same way a barbarbian could. I wouldn't build one as a rogue, but it could make for a half-decent initiator or non-int caster with its stat boosts. It also qualifies for fangshield druid, if you decide you absolutely need hands and/or speech (though I guess this is kind of the inversion of the 'a wizard can shapechange into this creature' argument).
    Last edited by DeTess; 2020-01-27 at 05:15 PM.
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  15. - Top - End - #315
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    -0. If the minor had hands I would give it a +0 but lack of manipulators make it a -0.

  16. - Top - End - #316
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Quote Originally Posted by Efrate View Post
    -0. If the minor had hands I would give it a +0 but lack of manipulators make it a -0.
    Agreed: no limbs or digits makes the game hard. Also has no language or ability to speak listed.

  17. - Top - End - #317
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I'm going to vote LA +0 for the smallest one and LA -0 for the others. I'm currently in a campaign (Blue Jay being the DM) where I play a Unicorn with this thread's LA; it's in part to verify how cumbersome it really is not to have hands or other manipulative appendages. I'm playing an Ardent Unicorn, and have picked Psionic Unseen Servant just in case it gets really troublesome...but we'll see.
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  18. - Top - End - #318
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    So ... welcome back, I guess!
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  19. - Top - End - #319
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Oh jeeze I didnít realize how much I depended on this (the forums and this thread) every day, until it was gone.

  20. - Top - End - #320
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Honestly, some of the monsters are interesting, concept-wise, if not actually challenging or unique... and then you get filler like these. Bleh.
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  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I vote LA +0, LA -0 and LA -0 for the flame snakes, in ascending order.
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  22. - Top - End - #322
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    We're back! Not a lot of people got a chance to vote so I'm going to leave vote submissions open for a bit more.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  23. - Top - End - #323
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I think minor is pretty good at +0 LA it has just enough going for it that it is playable, on the low end but playable. For comparison sake camel, cat, cheetah, croc, dog, and rat all got +0 LA and the minor fire snake is better then all of them...

    The only interesting thing about lesser is with 1 more rhd it gets large size, I think if it had 4 rhd I would give it +0 as is it -0 LA

    Great just sucks too much to be fixed -0 LA
    Last edited by liquidformat; 2020-02-24 at 04:10 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #324
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    +0 LA for the smallest snake, -0 for the others, formians are next!
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  25. - Top - End - #325
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Formian, Armadon


    Finally, some proper lawful neutral representation.

    Like many real-world lawful entities, formians are a big fan of tanks. Unlike most of them, theirs are sentient and spit acid.

    Armadons have eight outsider RHD, large size, and a moderate stat spread that emphasizes strength and constitution. They get the usual formian traits (hive mind, immunity to cold, poison, and petrification, resistance to fire, electricity, and sonic). On top of that, they're immune to acid and can spray acid of their own (3d8 damage in a moderately-sized area, every 1d4 rounds).

    Physically, armadons rely on a bite attack (with 17-20/3x crit) and two claws, as well as a sting that delivers 1d6 strength damage. Strength-damaging poison isn't very great, and the attacks are a bit lackluster too.

    Ultimately, the lack of special abilities or humanoid shape make me sceptical that this'd work at anything more than +0. Putting it there for now, considering -0.
    Have you had enough of unreasonably high LA's and unplayable monsters in 3.5? Then check out the LA-assignment thread! Don't hesitate to give feedback!

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  26. - Top - End - #326
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    It might eek out a +0 as a beatstick/blender/bruiser. Great hd, formion abilities including hive mind, good skills, starting large with 4 attacks is nice and might get there. Needs pounce but barbarian or totemist fixes that, both classes being okay ways forward. I think it has enough good stuff to keep a +0.

  27. - Top - End - #327
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Put me down for a tentative +0. It is not amazing but it seems like a perfectly functional beat stick.

  28. - Top - End - #328
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    Post Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Armadon

    • Large Outsider (Extraplanar, Lawful); no reach
    • 8 RHD, of the equally best kind
    • 40 ft speed: OK
    • +15 natural AC: not half bad.
    • Bite 2d6, 2 claws 1d8 and sting 2d4 + poison: decent if you're looking for a natural attack build.
    • Acid spray: AoE with not amazing damage, every 1d4 rounds. Still, situationally useful, like dissolving objects. Comparable to a level 8 Dragon Shaman or DFA, but unlike them, won't scale with level.
    • Augmented critical: would be nicer if it wasn't only on the bite. If you're able to wield weapons in your claws, makes for a decent secondary attack.
    • Hive mind: communicate with all formians within 50 miles. Also makes it hard to be caught flat footed or flanked while other formians are around. Neat, but unfortunately you cannot speak, so communicating with other creatures will be awkward.
    • Poison: 1d6/1d6 Str damage - not bad, but not amazing.
    • Acid, cold, petrifaction and poison immunity: pretty decent suite of immunities there.
    • Resist fire, electricity and sonic 20: so you are immune or resistant to all 5 energy types. Not bad at all.
    • Outsider traits: meh.
    • SR 20: not bad at your starting level, but quickly tapers away.
    • Str +12, Dex +2, Con +8, Wis +2: net +24, no penalties. Not too shabby.
    • Small-ish but OK skill list.

    Weird body shape, and not able to speak. Not sure if those claws could manipulate objects - a lenient DM might say yes.

    I think that if you can get around communication and gear issues, they might scrape in for LA +0 as a beat stick, but only just.

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    I will go with +0 too it is on the very low end but it just barely squeaks by. It works well for swordsage, warblade or even a fair totemist, and a level or so of barbarian does well too.

  30. - Top - End - #330
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    Default Re: The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

    Well, it's CR 8, same as the RHD, but considering that Fiend Folio CRs are as bad as if not worse than the MMII, that doesn't say as much as it normally would to me.
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