The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

[Thurbane]

So what's the consensus on those lobster claw/pincers being able to wield weapons? My gut says no.

Unless...

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[danielxcutter]

So what's the consensus on those lobster claw/pincers being able to wield weapons? My gut says no.

Unless...

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#mess with the crabbo #you get the stabbo

[liquidformat]

I don't know Thurbane that image is pretty compelling proof of the utility of crab claws...

[danielxcutter]

Another solid piece of evidence:

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So yeah, could work.

[liquidformat]

Another solid piece of evidence:

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So yeah, could work.

this is sadly blank =(

We need your evidence for SCIENCE!

[danielxcutter]

this is sadly blank =(

We need your evidence for SCIENCE!

Er it's working fine for me? Do gifs not work for you?

[Remuko]

Er it's working fine for me? Do gifs not work for you?

its working fine for me. Tallyho!

[Inevitability]

Formian, Observer

Imagine a taskmaster, but instead of game-breaking dominated puppets you get bonuses to Spot.

Observers have 9 RHD, focusing on mental stats (especially wisdom). Their sole attack is a sting that inflicts low damage and injects an int-damaging poison (notably capable of one-shotting most animals and a few dumb brutes). All-Around Vision would be worth mentioning if every observer wasn't going to augment their telepathy with Mindsight anyway. Innate resistances and immunities are nice, look at the armadon for a better picture of what they are.

Their signature ability, Evaluation, essentially gives all allied formians a cumulative +1 to hit for every turn of combat, assuming that you can directly observe an opponent the entire time. It's not particularly strong, it's not hard to block, and the one formian you're guaranteed to be near (yourself) will probably not use attack rolls much, but at least it's free.

Finally, observers get some SLAs. At-will Detect Magic, Detect Chaos, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, Charm Monster, Detect Thoughts, See Invisibility and True Seeing make for a moderately versatile (though very detection-focused) set of skills, but giving the entire party permanent True Seeing is useful enough that I'm not gonna complain.

Observers have some interesting things to offer, and their chassis isn't half bad, but they struggle with poor advancement options and a lack of combat options (spamming Charm Monster is their closest thing to a reliable attack). Again, +0 and -0 could both work here, and I'll use +0 for now.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I get my appendix removed, and the forums go back up on the same day. Hmmm...

(It's very good to see everyone again!)


For the observer, I feel that it's pretty crappy except for two of its SLAs (clairvoyance and true seeing). The stats suit a caster, or maybe something stealthy with skills, but the abilities don't do much, and don't measure up to even mid-range PrCs. An equal-level roguish type would already be casting third-level Assassin spells, for example. LA -0 for me.

[danielxcutter]

Well, as a lawful creature with a high Wis bonus, War Mind could work?

[Efrate]

-0. Not enough for anything worthwhile, no clear advancement path, mediocre chasis. True seeing, and the scaling bonus to hit with Forman teammates could make bug squad work but that's pretty niche. Charm monster spam is good but it's not dominate.

[Thurbane]

Observer

• Medium-Size Outsider (Extraplanar, Lawful)
• 9 RHD of the equally best kind
• 40 ft speed: OK
• +5 natural AC: meh
• Sting 2d4 + poison
• Hive mind: communicate with all formians within 50 miles. Also makes it hard to be caught flat footed or flanked while other formians are around.
• Poison: 1d6/1d6 Int damage. OK-ish.
• Spell-like abilities: at will - charm monster, clairaudience/clairvoyance, detect chaos, detect magic, detect thoughts, see invisibility, true seeing. A mixed bag - there are a couple of gems there, and some of limited value. Honestly, if you have at-will true seeing, why do you need see invisibility?
• All-Around Vision: +4 bonus to search and spot, can't be flanked - handy if you can't take advantage of hive mind.
• Evaluation: a full round action to give other formians a cumulative +1 insight bonus to attack and damage against one foe, per full round. Of limited practical use. An archivist can do much better with dark knowledge, without eating up entire rounds.
• Telepathy 250ft: nice, for all the usual reasons, especially since you can't talk.
• Cold, petrification and poison immunity: not quite as much as the armadon, but close.
• Resist fire, electricity and sonic 20: decent.
• Outsider traits: meh.
• SR 23: not bad initially, but doesn't scale.
• Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4, Int +8, Wis +8, Cha +6: net +32, no penalties. Nice.
• Not a bad racial skill list: seen better, seen worse.

Weird body shape - but at least is spelled out as having manipulative hands. "Delicate", but I would let them wield weapons just fine. No mouth is going to make casting challenging. You can communicate via telepathy. Maybe an Amulet of Freedom of Speech could let you cast? With 9RHD, Ur-Priest may be your best option. I'm not sure there really is any clear class progression for the guy - skill monkey maybe? Although his racial skill list is far from impressive.

Tough call on this one: ability mods and SLAs are neat, but nothing else seems worth 9 lost levels. I'm voting LA -0, unless I see any good arguments for +0.

[danielxcutter]

I mean, you might be able to squeeze something out of the mental stats with independent casting PrCs, but that's about it, really.

[Falontani]

Of note:
Barbed Stinger feat grants improved grab for any size and allows you to continuously apply your intelligence damaging poison each round. Combined with deadly poison and Lolth's Caress can quickly reduce even the most intelligent creatures to 0 fairly quickly.

[Yxylu]

Maybe not of great use outside of a group of all formians, but from my reading, the Evaluation ability doesn’t require any actions, just to have line-of-sight for the round(s). In a mass-combat situation, like a war, the Observer keeps an eye on the boss, while its allies fight the front line enemies. After two minutes of mopping up mooks, all the formians (within 50 miles!) get +20 to hit the leader. Then it keeps going up from there. Still situational, but can be quite helpful.

[danielxcutter]

Maybe not of great use outside of a group of all formians, but from my reading, the Evaluation ability doesn’t require any actions, just to have line-of-sight for the round(s). In a mass-combat situation, like a war, the Observer keeps an eye on the boss, while its allies fight the front line enemies. After two minutes of mopping up mooks, all the formians (within 50 miles!) get +20 to hit the leader. Then it keeps going up from there. Still situational, but can be quite helpful.

That's only useful in a group of formians. In a war. Neither of which are common whatsoever.

[liquidformat]

Seems like a pretty easy -0 LA since it is pretty useless for 9 RHD investment. As far as class options, a lot of the interesting skill monkey choices like trapsmith are out due to its skill list. War Mind, Ur-Priest, and similar prcs seem like the best choice. War Mind is actually pretty easy just need educated and wild talent or even better hidden talent if flaws are allowed. Over all I think Observer would be better as a cohort or even better as a familiar than an actual PC.

On a side note anyone else notice Observer was shorted a feat?...

[danielxcutter]

Seems like a pretty easy -0 LA since it is pretty useless for 9 RHD investment. As far as class options, a lot of the interesting skill monkey choices like trapsmith are out due to its skill list. War Mind, Ur-Priest, and similar prcs seem like the best choice. War Mind is actually pretty easy just need educated and wild talent or even better hidden talent if flaws are allowed. Over all I think Observer would be better as a cohort or even better as a familiar than an actual PC.

On a side note anyone else notice Observer was shorted a feat?...

That's because 3.0e didn't give feats at first level, I think.

[ZamielVanWeber]

That's because 3.0e didn't give feats at first level, I think.

It did to PCs. Monsters in 3.0 had unique feat and skill progressions based on type. They standardized it all in 3.5. I would need to dig up MM 3.0 to see if our formian was actually sorted a feat.

Also drop me down for -0. A defensive power house but it will struggle to do jack diddly to an enemy with so little, so late.

[emulord]

I think Observers could work as a long range character actually. Your sneaking will be weaker, but you can just stare at something unseen for minutes and repeatedly longbow attack them and be ensured to basically never miss while they close the distance.

Weaker side of +0, but I think they're T4

[danielxcutter]

I think Observers could work as a long range character actually. Your sneaking will be weaker, but you can just stare at something unseen for minutes and repeatedly longbow attack them and be ensured to basically never miss while they close the distance.

Weaker side of +0, but I think they're T4

...I was going to say that they probably couldn't even use longbows, but they don't have claw attacks that might get in the way and their hands don't look too inappropriate. Still don't think they'd really work, honestly but... yeah.

[Thurbane]

Not directly related to the current creature, but I was recently made aware of an item that would be great for overcoming the issues of blind creatures.

Stalwart Eye (A&EG 137) -- This one's actually pretty cool, especially as a way to overcome blindness. A tiny bird statue; a command word lets you see through its eyes with unlimited duration and range as long as you're on the same plane, but the bird can only move to turn its head as the owner desires. You are now Matty from Unsounded. 10,000 gp.

I really enjoy finding methods to make the oddball creatures playable...

[Inevitability]

-0 LA for Four-Eyes it is, next formian coming up soon!

[Inevitability]

Formian, Winged Warrior

Last of the formians: will it be more playable than the other two?

The answer, to some extent, is yes. Winged warriors have a much more manageable RHD amount (only six), enjoy a solid lineup of stat boosts (+4 to +8 for physical stats, +0 to +2 for mentals), get a bunch of immunities and resistances (including SR 18), and a good 60 ft. fly speed on top of that.

Offensively, they get a bite, two claws, and a ranged spike attack. The last of those has an expanded critical range (19-20/x3) and inflicts a mild poison (1d6 strength damage on both hits). A few times per day, two spikes can be launched as a standard action, which I suppose will be worth doing sometimes. On top of that, the art shows a winged warrior wielding weapons, which would imply opposable thumbs.

Winged warriors aren't powerhouses, but they're a solid package of flight, decent stats, good RHD, immunities, and natural weapons. +0 LA seems fine.

[danielxcutter]

Specifically it's a bite, two claws, and a spike attack. The base damage is very meh, but to be frank, most of the damage inflicted by natural attackers tends to be either a combination of Strength and Power Attack, or precision damage.

[Efrate]

Outsider hd are good enough, at 6hd it is perfectly good fine. +0.

[Caelestion]

The image is broken for me.

[liquidformat]

The image is broken for me.

works for me on my work computer but not home computer so no clue what is going on.

Anyways they have just enough to skate by with a +0

[Sutr]

Compared to a totemist it wins in every category so +1.

[danielxcutter]

Compared to a totemist it wins in every category so +1.

Does it? Totemist soulmelds do some pretty interesting things, so I wouldn't say every category.