The LA-assignment thread VIII: Way Too Much For Vampirism

[Mystic Muse]

La +6 for me I think.

[Thurbane]

Red Ethergaunt

• Medium Aberration (extraplanar)
• 5 RHD (of a not-great kind - easier to swallow when you get innate casting)
• 30 ft move
• +4 natural AC: not bad. Equivalent to a 32,000gp Amulet, minus the slot.
• Enslave: 3/day dominate monster, with a limitation on the number of creatures enslaved. Still, as a Supernatural ability, you don't need to worry about SR.
• Spells: almost the entire reason to play these guys. 9th level Wizard casting - 4 levels above your HD.
• Stupefying gaze: at will, free action, gaze attack roughly equivalent to Touch of Stupidity. Nice.
• Darkvision 60 ft
• Material jaunt: ability to inhabit the material plane for 1 round/HD, 1/hour. If you want to stay longer, you need other magic.
• Immunity to spells: unlimited SR vs. arcane spells of 2nd level or lower. Pretty cool, but limited use at higher levels.
• Total vision: automatically detect most creatures in a 40 foot radius. Nice.
• Str +4, Dex +4, Con +2, Int +12, Wis +4, Cha +2: net +28. Pretty sweet. Admittedly, some scores aren't much use to Wizards, but +12 to your casting stat is great.
• Small but decent racial class list: most importantly, the two main skills for a Wizard are there (Concentration and Spellcraft).
• Combat Casting and EWP as bonus feats: not bad. I mean, maybe not as useful as Wizard bonus feats, but still not horrible.

Humanoid in form, and can speak. Gear and class progression shouldn't be an issue (class progression is fairly obvious). Solid stat boosts, including a large boost to your casting stat. Other icing on the cake with dominate monster, de-buffing gaze attack, all around vision and immunity to low level arcane spells with SR. And of course, 9th level casting from arguably the best list in the game. The only drawback is your difficulty in leaving the Ethereal easily for extended periods.

With 9th level casting on a 5HD chassis, I'd already be looking at a minimum +4. Throw on the stat boosts, dominate monster, and other perks, I'm voting LA +6, but can definitely see an argument for higher.

[Remuko]

Despite all the current arguments I think I can't believe its worth above +6 (which is my vote) atm. I could probably be argued down to +5 or maybe to +7 but no arguments sway me either way atm, and I always lean towards lower, because its more playable. I prefer OP LA over unplayable(ly bad) ones.

[Debatra]

Also keep in mind that unlike regular Dominate Person/Monster, the victim is allowed a new save every day and can't wander more than a mile from the Ethergaunt. For either of those reasons alone, even with the indefinite duration, I'd say his ability is inferior to DP/M. That army will break ranks eventually, whereas you know how long you have the ones controlled by spells (barring Dispels, Break Enchantments, etc). The DC also appears to be based on Charisma, not its massive Intelligence. This thing is a Wizard with a nice Charisma-based ability, not a Sorcerer. Enslave is not as good as it might appear at first glance.

Enslave is okay, but not pushing it into the next level. Especially since each point of LA hits casters a lot harder than non-casters. That +12 to Int is really nice though.

Call it a +6 for now. I could even see myself dropping to +5 or even going up to +7, but the arguments in favor of doing so would have to be pretty darn good. For those saying +8 or higher, I don't feel the need to take 9th-level spells away from this thing. As mentioned above, Enslave may try to emulate a 9th-level spell, but it's a poor imitation.

[Thurbane]

I may have misread Material Jaunt - if they arrive on the Prime Material by other means, are they drawn back to the Ethereal, or only if they arrive there by Material Jaunt?

[Debatra]

Basically, imagine the reverse of a Human casting Ethereal Jaunt.

[Prime32]

All ethergaunts get EWP with the Etherblade, which is kind of like a greatsword except it has no expanded crit range and can shoot laser beams. The beams are unimpressive (1d6 damage, 40 ft. range increment, 50 unrestorable charges per weapon), but might be relevant in one or two situations.

The etherblade could be genuinely useful (the beams are touch attacks that deal nonmagical force damage, and you can full attack with them), but here it's just overshadowed by everything else. While you can't recharge them, they're cheap; I've seen people carry around a bunch of them, then purchase a Dragonshard Pommel Stone with the enchantments they want and swap it between blades as they run dry.

Since you can make etherblades and give them to your allies, I'd say this shouldn't be judged as an attack form so much as a support ability. Any character based around sneak attack will adore having an ethergaunt in their party.

[Caelestion]

It's got to be either LA +6 or +7, so I'll err on the side of caution and say LA +7.

[Sutr]

I'm going to change to +7 there are a lot of convincing arguments and was posting to show that +5 was to low.

[danielxcutter]

I may have misread Material Jaunt - if they arrive on the Prime Material by other means, are they drawn back to the Ethereal, or only if they arrive there by Material Jaunt?

It's outright stated that Ethergaunts that want to be on the Material longer than that, and who are high-level enough and can use Plane Shift, typically do so. So I think they can stay on the Material that way.

[Sutr]

Just wanted to add this but no matter what this creature will have the highest Level adjustment that has ever been assigned in these threads with what is being debated.

[lord_khaine]

Im kinda torn on this one.
Cant decide between +6 and +7. It does get a stupid amount of free stuff.
But 37 HP at level 12 isnt much either.

[danielxcutter]

Im kinda torn on this one.
Cant decide between +6 and +7. It does get a stupid amount of free stuff.
But 37 HP at level 12 isnt much either.

"Isn't much"? Try "dead in two hits".

[Bavarian itP]

Im kinda torn on this one.
Cant decide between +6 and +7. It does get a stupid amount of free stuff.
But 37 HP at level 12 isnt much either.

This thing can afford to sacrifice INT for CON.

Human Wizard starts with CON 14, INT 18, has 53 hit points @ level 11 (and INT 20 from leveling up)
Etergaunt could start with CON 18(20) and INT 14(26), therfore 51 hit points.

[Mike Miller]

Isn't there a feat to swap bonus HP from CON mod to INT mod? Lots of HP, then

[Unavenger]

Isn't there a feat to swap bonus HP from CON mod to INT mod? Lots of HP, then

Yup, Faerie Mysteries Initiate will allow you to make up for all your hit point loss from the LA, if your DM allows dragon magazine content and you meet the prerequisites (you probably don't).

Still, this monster is so hilariously overpowered that I think I'm going to have to say that too much for vampirism is just right for these beasties: +8 is my vote.

[Zancloufer]

Going to vote +5 here.

Now +6 isn't that high and I could be convinced normally. However it is on the edge. Remember at +5-+6 LA this thing will be (half) a spell level behind a wizard and have almost half it's max ranks and less than half the number of feats. It is pretty much locked out of most PrCs by sheer dint of feats and skill ranks. It will sit at the point where HD targeting spells which are merely a curiosity are outright lethal. It has some nice extra defenses but is that worth the lack of feats/PrC access?

+6 might work, but with all the people calling for +7 I don't feel comfortable with going with my higher estimate.

[Lans]

I'm going with +7, it has some weaknesses at this range but its spells are going to hit like a Mac Truck

[TotallyNotEvil]

Im kinda torn on this one.
Cant decide between +6 and +7. It does get a stupid amount of free stuff.
But 37 HP at level 12 isnt much either.

That's what things like False Life and Greater Blink are for.

Ethergaunt has +2 racial CON and +6 AC (+4 NA, +4 racial DEX) over a wizard of equal stats. That's not a small difference.

Put a 14 or even a 16 on CON during point buy, as you don't need the very expensive (in points) 18 INT, and you've already closed the gap by a fair bit.

With the usual 32 others buy, an Ethergaunt could be rocking something like STR 12 DEX 20 CON 18 INT 28 WIS 14 CHA 10 straight out of the gate.

With the usual +4 INT headband, it's going to be rocking a 21+Spell level DC without sacrificing anything. That's kind of crazy, given the nearly zero effort it took to get that high of a DC.

Should average to 46 HP or so, while the usual CON 14 Wizard 12 would have about 55 HP. In about five levels, due it's higher CON it will break even or surpass the pure wizard, and go on from there.

[danielxcutter]

That's what things like False Life and Greater Blink are for.

Eh, I can buy the other parts, but False Life? I'd rather use stuff like an Amulet of Tears or Ruin Delver's Fortune or maybe Minor Shapeshift.

[Aniikinis]

Finally! The Khen-Zai, the possible creators of the Clockwork Horrors, and the ones who cut themselves off from both the gods and the material world. If the red gets less than +7 I'll be shocked.

[danielxcutter]

Finally! The Khen-Zai, the possible creators of the Clockwork Horrors, and the ones who cut themselves off from both the gods and the material world. If the red gets less than +7 I'll be shocked.

Might want to get some electricity resistance just in case.

[TotallyNotEvil]

Finally! The Khen-Zai, the possible creators of the Clockwork Horrors, and the ones who cut themselves off from both the gods and the material world. If the red gets less than +7 I'll be shocked.

Are you actually voting for +7? Because it isn't clear if you are, and if I'm counting right +7 has a thin 2-vote lead over +6.

[Inevitability]

+5: 2 votes
+6: 5 votes
+7: 7 votes
+8: 2 votes

+7 wins out with a small margin. Khaine's vote was ambiguous between 6 and 7, Aniikis made an ambiguous statement that could be interpreted as a +7 vote, but unless both of them meant to vote +6 there is no change in the results.

[Inevitability]

Incidentally, this marks:

1. The highest assigned LA to date, beating the Ghaele Eladrin's +6.

2. The only time a WotC LA above +3 ended up being exactly right.

The second in particular convinces me that the age of reason has ended, and pigs will soon sprout wings.

[danielxcutter]

Incidentally, this marks:

1. The highest assigned LA to date, beating the Ghaele Eladrin's +6.

2. The only time a WotC LA above +3 ended up being exactly right.

The second in particular convinces me that the age of reason has ended, and pigs will soon sprout wings.

I'm going to quote that, if you don't mind.

[Inevitability]

Ethergaunt (II)

Ethergaunt, White

These mid-tier ethergaunts, notable for actually wearing clothes, have 11 HD. They're very comparable to the reds: Stupefying gaze, Enslave, Total Vision and Material Jaunt are all unchanged. Constitution, dexterity, and intelligence have gone up at the cost of two points of strength, and Combat Casting isn't a bonus feat anymore (but still something the default monster has chosen, apparently).

White ethergaunts' Spell Immunity has been upgraded to cover 3rd- and 4th-level spells, and their casting is now that of a 13th-level wizard, making a LA of +2 the bare minimum. To balance out the many other goodies the 'gaunt gets, I think +3 or +4 is more appropriate, though.

A LA of +5 is honestly reasonable here. Being behind on casting a bit is compensated for more than adequately with the great stats and special abilities.

Ethergaunt, Black

16 RHD, 17th-level casting, better stats (including a whopping 31 intelligence), and 6th-level Spell Immunity (now covering spells like Flesh to Stone, Feeblemind, and Baleful Polymorph). Not a lot worth mentioning here that hasn't been discussed in some other entry already.

When you consider the giant intelligence bonus, a black ethergaunt isn't that far behind on casting compared to a 20th-level wizard, and as such I'm comfortable assigning it +4 LA. Class levels aren't that important if you have 9th-level spells.

[danielxcutter]

Reds already make very good casters thanks to the ginormous Int bonus, but the others? That's not turning it up to 11, that's ripping the dial off.

[Debatra]

"Two levels above the casting they give you" seems like a good overall rule for Ethergaunts. (except apparently the red ones, though that was pretty close)

Put me down for +4 and +3.

[TotallyNotEvil]

On the White, given their similarities I'm inclined to take the same measure we decided upon for the Red, which had it 3 level above its racial casting.

But it has a far smaller gap between HD and casting than the Red had.

So, at 11 HD and 13th level casting, going to call for +5 LA so it still ends up with 9th level spells.

For Black, I'd consider 17th level casting and +20 Intelligence a worthy 20th l