Players relying on NPCs too much...how does one fix it?

[kafka-the-wild]

Just want to keep this plain, simple and very general.

How does a DM prevent their player characters from relying on NPC to do all their dirty work/adventures/critical thinking for them instead of coming up with creative ideas of their own?

Very bad example: paying NPC to go do their dungeon for them?

I know this might be part of the DM's fault but is there any advice to prevent this?

Thanks!

[Pauly]

Have the NPCs complete the requested tasks, but not in the way the player’s want.

The NPCs go to the dungeon, clear it out and keep the loot for themselves.
The NPCs unlock the secret door, then rat out the party to the bad guys for a reward.
The NPCs fight the battle defensively and don’t risk their necks for the PCs, get i to arguments with the PCs as to who will do the high risk work.
Have a Kerr Avon NPC “I am not stupid, I am not expendable, I am not going”.
The NPCs end ip being plants by the BBEG and are reporting the party’s activities back to him.
The NPCs make things go BOOM! and cause huge collateral damage that the PCs have to fix up.


You don’t need all the NPCs doing this all the time. Just enough to remind the party that if they want something done properly they have to do it themselves.

[Jay R]

The NPCs say, "No."

That's the real answer.

"No, Bilbo, I'm not going through Mirkwood with you. I'm going off to face the Necromancer.

"No, Luke, I won't blow up the Death Star for you. I've been struck down. Use the Force."

"No, Frodo. We're off to fight a war. You and Sam need to go to Mordor alone. See if Gollum will help you."

"No, Dorothy, I can't tell you about the slippers. You have to learn it for yourself."

------------

Or, if you are really really vicious, give them what they ask for.

"The NPCs agree to go down into the dungeon for you. You don't hear from them again for several months, when you learn that they killed a lot of monsters, found a lot of treasures, and set themselves up to rule the area from the abandoned castle. They are now great lords and ladies, and heroes of renown. The End. OK, that game's over. Who wants to DM the next game?"

[The Insanity]

Kill them.

[Velaryon]

Plenty of possibilities here:

1. There are no NPCs available to hire.
2. The NPCs demand higher payment than the party is willing to pay.
3. The NPCs take the money, but fail at the job and die in the dungeon.
4. The NPCs succeed in clearing out the dungeon, but decide they'd rather keep the treasure for themselves and return their payment to the PCs (or don't).
5. The NPCs did the work, so the NPCs get the experience points.
6. The NPCs get a better offer from someone else and decide to abandon the job halfway through.
7. The DM tells the players that the game is no longer fun or interesting to run, and that if they don't want to play the adventure themselves then let's break out a board game instead.

[MoiMagnus]

I see 2 possible sources for this problem:

1) You build a world where the PCs feel like they don't need to do anything on their own. For every problem their character have, the risk of doing it themself is not worth the reward.
=> The solution here is usually to "go more personal", and to find a plot where the PC background and motivations should make them accept the risks as "worth it". Oh, and getting rid in some way of your OP NPCs that can solve anything, if you have any of them around.

2) Your players are not that interested in dungeon crawling (or whatever things you want them to do), and find it much funnier to talk to your NPCs to make them solve their problem in their place.
=> Are you having fun with that kind of gameplay? If yes, then you don't need to fix it, just change your mindset and accept that your PCs are more quest-givers than adventurers. If no, which is quite probable since you ask us to help you "fix it", it is quite important to talk to your players and see actually want, because just removing them the possibility of using NPCs might feel to them as "breaking the fun and forcing them into boring gameplay they tried to avoid".

[Incorrect]

Do the players enjoy playing the role of Taskmaster? Do you?
That could be a game in itself.

But simple advice:
Dont give them XP.
Dont give them gold.
Tell them why.

[Droid Tony]

The three classic ways:

1.All NPCs are weak and useless. They are all zero level nobodies. Even the like three in the world with a level are super week and useless. All they can do is say ''help".


2.The NPCs are busy. it's a big world, they are busy...do your own work.

3.The NPCs are not around. They are at lunch or better yet simply not nearby. The only ones around ARE the PCs. This also works for isolating the PCs in the Forest of Doom, 200 miles from any good NPCs. Then the Doom Monster is summoned...so it's either the PCs stop it or they travel days back to get help and the world will end before that..

[Mastikator]

Don't fix it? If the players wants to play the manager of adventurers instead of the adventurer why not let them?

[Telok]

The players either don't want do or feel that their characters can't do it but the NPCs can.

If it is the former, see other responses and talk to the players. If it's the latter then fix the mechanics that are making the PCs feel weaker than the NPCs.

[AMFV]

Well do you have some specific examples? What kind of situations are they relying on NPCs? Without specifics it's really hard to suggest a way to fix this particular problem.

[Kaptin Keen]

I just let my players know straight up: This isn't a game about how NPC's did the PC's job for them. Anyone unsuited you bring to a dungeon will die horribly moments from the entrance. And you can't hire someone suited. It just doesn't work that way.

Aligning expectations is never a bad thing.

[Zhorn]

Ah, this is a "fun" bullet to dodge.

Last couple of campaigns I ran, the players I had were very used to previous DMs giving them NPC helpers at every opportunity, letting them recruit almost everyone they met and having those NPCs fix everything for the players.
I quickly started giving reasons why each person they met was unable to accompany them on their adventures; cowardly, not trained in combat, delicate constitutions, have a family to look after, took an arrow to the knee, etc.
Kept happening up until I had an out of game conversation that I'm not running that type of game.

[JakOfAllTirades]

The NPCs say, "No."

Winner winner chicken dinner!

"You want me to do what now? Nobody who goes into that dungeon ever comes out! You want to get killed, you go down there. I'm not stupid."

[King of Nowhere]

my pcs frequently enlisted the help of npcs, and i appreciated that; it shows that they are invested in the campaign world. but the party fought with them, they did not just send them ahead (only exception when they hired an npc with spying/infiltration skills, that the party didn't have, to do some spying for them. she started by doing an outstanding job, but she eventually got herself captured and the party had to bail her out).

and i think that could be your answer, if you want to keep the party involved with npcs. have the npc agree to help the party (treat them as cohorts while in the dungeon, perhaps), but have the party being there and be the protagonists.

[Pelle]

Try making character sheets for the NPCs, and handing them to the players?

[Pleh]

Try making character sheets for the NPCs, and handing them to the players?

And have them hand over their old sheets. Their characters are now questgiving NPCs

[False God]

Replace their NPCs with PCs. When Party A pays Party B to go do something, the players pull out the sheets for Party B and the game shifts to what Party B is doing.

[Calthropstu]

My preferred method:
They come across a member of the party they hired in a tavern. He seems broken and defeated. You approach him and he breaks into tears sobbing. His beloved wife and his best friends died in that dungeon. Worse, his wife was carrying the deposit. When the party demands payment, he screams at them. If they press, he attacks. The guard arrives the next round and arrests everyone.

[denthor]

They do not in my game an NPC has led every time will with a vote. The only way is to disconnect your DM understanding and make them more worthless then the players.

Really hard to do as a DM you think it is easy to solve. So your NPC has the simple answer. In reality the players do not have enough information.

An example from our Friday game We want to dig down into the catacombs. The DM kept saying well that that wont-work that what work show at the end of the night after 5 hours we asked him what was the simplest way to do this now that the rescue miss you was not completed.

His answer was we have to dig down and go in through the side but There were not catacombs and you kept saying catacombs.

[FabulousFizban]

kill the NPCs, preferably as a result of the player’s laziness.

[kafka-the-wild]

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions! I shall take some of the advice and see what happens.
You are all awesome!

[kyoryu]

They're characters. They have will of their own. They can set conditions. They can say no. They can switch sides. They can become more experienced, and ultimately be more powerful than the PCs that hired them.

Actions have consequences. Characters (including NPCs) make decisions.

[Jay R]

“Gosh, I’d like to go after the Black Priest of Upper-Dingley-by-the-Moor for you, but I have a really great job working as his spy. I’ll tell everybody you’re dropping by, so they’ll be ready. Ta-ta!”

[LibraryOgre]

All that said...

As levels mount, the PCs likely WILL wind up outsourcing some things to NPCs. That's part of becoming powerful adventurers... you can hire someone else to do it for you.

For example, once they get a base or a keep or whatever, they're probably going to want to hire a seneschal and some baliffs... someone to make sure the keep keeps running, and some people to collect taxes and enforce their rules. There's no reason for the PCs to go around to every croft and collect taxes, or oversee every chicken theft case.

And, as they get higher in level, they're going to outsource other things. They're going to hire spies (and maybe assassins) to take care of problems. They're going to hire guards to protect their land. Big things will still fall back on the PCs, but, well, you hire NPCs for the little things, just as NPCs once hired you.

The trick is always going to be resources. If the PCs have unlimited resources, why wouldn't they hire someone to do these things? If they have more limited resources, though, they wind up doing a lot for themselves, because they must.

[Yora]

Hiring mercenaries is a great idea. But mercenaries need to get paid, and that money has to come from somewhere.

[Mystral]

Just want to keep this plain, simple and very general.

How does a DM prevent their player characters from relying on NPC to do all their dirty work/adventures/critical thinking for them instead of coming up with creative ideas of their own?

Very bad example: paying NPC to go do their dungeon for them?

I know this might be part of the DM's fault but is there any advice to prevent this?

Thanks!

Have an NPC betray them.