Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 10 12345678910 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 299
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    5. Whiny Annakin: Why did this fun, interesting kid become a brooding, whiny teenager? Yes, that happens to teenagers a lot. And it’s annoying then, too.

    4. Useless Lucas re-edits. Han shot first – that’s the kind of guy he was. It was supposed to establish the sort of selfish, amoral pilot you might find hanging out in a hive of scum and villainy. Then, over the course of the movie, he found redemption and a cause. Change him at the beginning of the movie, and you make many of his scenes seem wrong, for no good purpose.

    3. Cee Threepio: The fact that we’ve grown accustomed to his annoying personality doesn’t make it any less annoying.

    2. Jar-Jar Binks.

    And the most annoying aspect of Star Wars is:

    1. Star Wars fans constantly finding faults in a franchise they supposedly love.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    As an outsider to Star Wars as a franchise (I do not consider myself a fan, but I don't really hate it or anything; they're okay movies. Better games.) the most annoying thing about the franchise to me is the over-focus on Jedi.

    Jedi are a nearly extinct breed of backwater hicks with outmoded and unsustainable philosophical beliefs which are demonstrably unhealthy to the human mind and soul. As the expanded universe shows, they aren't even objectively correct about their view of the world; there are plenty of other races and places that have never heard of a Jedi and use the Force and whatnot just fine without falling into the Jedi's farcical notion that just because some people who have emotions are bad (the Sith) that emotionless = good.

    They are a demonstrably failed experiment in the grand scheme of the universe. They never even lived up to their own ideal and failed miserably to accomplish much of worth in spreading their philosophy in the thousands of years of their existence.

    They are also a really a small thing in general with the absolute VASTNESS of the Star Wars universe. There is so much untapped potential this franchise could mine.

    But they don't.

    Every movie is about Jedi. Every game is about Jedi. Every book is about Jedi. If a Jedi is not the main character, there is at least a prominent secondary character who is, or they're an antagonist (if it's a book about Sith; I think the Sith are also overplayed). And if there's a secondary character who's a Jedi there's a solid chance they'll convert the main character somehow over the course of it.

    Enough with the frickin' Jedi already. They were cool when there were only two of them in the entire universe left. They were immediately lame when there was a council of do-nothing hypocrites introduced. Lightsabers are exponentially less cool the more there are in a single scene too.

    Gimme something else.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Every movie is about Jedi.
    Rogue One. Solo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Every game is about Jedi.
    Tie Fighter. X-Wing. Episode I: Racer. Battlefront. Shadows of the Empire. Rogue Squadron.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Every book is about Jedi.
    Lost Stars. Catalyst. Aftermath. Tarkin. Last Shot. Bloodlines.

    Lists are not exhaustive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    1. Star Wars fans constantly finding faults in a franchise they supposedly love.
    Bang on the money. Nobody hates Star Wars as much as Star Wars fans.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2019-12-20 at 03:07 PM.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Rogue One. Solo.

    Tie Fighter. X-Wing. Episode I: Racer. Battlefront. Shadows of the Empire. Rogue Squadron.

    Lost Stars. Catalyst. Aftermath. Tarkin. Last Shot. Bloodlines.

    Lists are not exhaustive.
    Sure, but I think you get what I was going for. The stuff not about Jedi is a tiny fraction of the franchise, which seems disproportionate for an organization that is defunct in the "present day" of the series. Hell, the only two movies that don't have a Jedi in them are the ones where there are literally two left in the entire universe and they're hiding out.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Sure, but I think you get what I was going for. The stuff not about Jedi is a tiny fraction of the franchise, which seems disproportionate for an organization that is defunct in the "present day" of the series. Hell, the only two movies that don't have a Jedi in them are the ones where there are literally two left in the entire universe and they're hiding out.
    Yeah, I do absolutely get what you mean, and I agree (especially on the games front, that galaxy is ripe for shooters, RPGs, platformers, and other games, and while it had the biggest list, it was still small). I'm not going to pretend I wasn't sitting here going "tee hee" as I wrote out multiple responses for each category, but at least part of my reason was to give an actual, workable list if you were looking for some.

    On a related note, I would love a good remake of Shadows of the Empire, and I'm still salty about 1313 getting the axe.
    The Mod on the Silver Mountain avatars by the wonderfully talented Cuthalion!

    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Spoiler: Avatar collection
    Show
    Spoiler: I'm the sun, I'm the sun
    Show
    Spoiler: I can move I can run
    Show
    Spoiler: But you'll never stop me burning
    Show

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2013

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    The one thing the fanbase agrees on is that they don't like the fanbase.

    The thing about the Jedi is, they're the most unique thing about the series. It's not difficult to find spaceship battles, bounty hunting shows, or gritty war stories, whatever it is you want to find, in any other franchise. But there's not too many Jedi in everything else.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R
    1. Star Wars fans constantly finding faults in a franchise they supposedly love.
    Love and hatred are tied together in fandom. The more people care, the more they grow angry when the thing they care about is changed or they feel betrayed by it. The fanbase of Star Wars is extremely passionate and that's reflected in the strong opinions. In the absence of passion you get indifference. The fact that bad Star Wars makes people furious is a testament to its power as a franchise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    The thing about the Jedi is, they're the most unique thing about the series. It's not difficult to find spaceship battles, bounty hunting shows, or gritty war stories, whatever it is you want to find, in any other franchise. But there's not too many Jedi in everything else.
    Pretty much, especially the whole moral and philosophical element. Mass Effect, for example, is Star Wars with a new skin (exhibit A: Drew Karpyshyn wrote for both franchises), but while biotics provide almost the exact same suite of powers as Jedi possess, they have none of the dramatic potential that the Force does. Somehow the hokey vaguely-Taoist mishmash Lucas slammed into the monomyth structure proved to be extremely compelling as a storytelling mechanic and it's an element that many other space fantasy franchises just don't have.
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Thing is, the Expanded Universe stuff touched on various other traditions that keep that same basic idea, but are DIFFERENT.

    There are myriad and varied religious and spiritual interpretations of the Force in the series that are hinted at, sometimes briefly touched upon, but never actually explored.

    Any or all of those could be just as unique as Jedi.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Love and hatred are tied together in fandom. The more people care, the more they grow angry when the thing they care about is changed or they feel betrayed by it.
    Makes me want to facepalm when I see it in the Star Wars fandom, since that pretty much sums up how Anakin turned into Vader.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lvl 2 Expert's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tulips Cheese & Rock&Roll
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
    And the most annoying aspect of Star Wars is:

    1. Star Wars fans constantly finding faults in a franchise they supposedly love.
    And posting top 5's about it on forums?
    The Hindsight Awards, round 3: Vote for the best movies of 1999.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Kitten Champion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    As an outsider to Star Wars as a franchise (I do not consider myself a fan, but I don't really hate it or anything; they're okay movies. Better games.) the most annoying thing about the franchise to me is the over-focus on Jedi.

    Jedi are a nearly extinct breed of backwater hicks with outmoded and unsustainable philosophical beliefs which are demonstrably unhealthy to the human mind and soul. As the expanded universe shows, they aren't even objectively correct about their view of the world; there are plenty of other races and places that have never heard of a Jedi and use the Force and whatnot just fine without falling into the Jedi's farcical notion that just because some people who have emotions are bad (the Sith) that emotionless = good.

    They are a demonstrably failed experiment in the grand scheme of the universe. They never even lived up to their own ideal and failed miserably to accomplish much of worth in spreading their philosophy in the thousands of years of their existence.

    They are also a really a small thing in general with the absolute VASTNESS of the Star Wars universe. There is so much untapped potential this franchise could mine.

    But they don't.

    Every movie is about Jedi. Every game is about Jedi. Every book is about Jedi. If a Jedi is not the main character, there is at least a prominent secondary character who is, or they're an antagonist (if it's a book about Sith; I think the Sith are also overplayed). And if there's a secondary character who's a Jedi there's a solid chance they'll convert the main character somehow over the course of it.

    Enough with the frickin' Jedi already. They were cool when there were only two of them in the entire universe left. They were immediately lame when there was a council of do-nothing hypocrites introduced. Lightsabers are exponentially less cool the more there are in a single scene too.

    Gimme something else.
    This is among my main issues too, but it's less that they're ubiquitous (though, yes, I agree) and more that I find most of aspects of the universe beyond Space Wizards much more interesting and feel kind of vexed that the universe itself ultimately revolves around them.

    The ages-old SF aesthetic to the universe, the variety of non-human aliens, the Space Western feel to the edges of space civilization. It has a lot of the elements I find I loved in Firefly and Farscape, but then you get this mystical battle between the Light and Darkness couched in the eternal repetition of this Jedi/Republican/Rebels versus Sith/Imperials meta-story and it loses most of its depth or complexity as well as feeling like everything is kind of futile in a Warhammer 40K way. The Sith/Imperials are apparently always going to rise again because that conflict defines Star Wars.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2019-12-20 at 05:14 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    As an outsider to Star Wars as a franchise (I do not consider myself a fan, but I don't really hate it or anything; they're okay movies. Better games.) the most annoying thing about the franchise to me is the over-focus on Jedi.
    As a hardcore Star Wars fan, I totally agree. Everything went downhill after the Jedi Council was introduced in Episode 1. The Jedi Knights games get away with it because there are so very few Jedi in them. (Really just 4.) I am okay with KotOR because that series is specifically about the Jedi and set at a time when the Jedi were at their prime.

    But Star Wars is not about Jedi. It's about rebels and scoundrels, with the occasional Jedi crossing their path,
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor
    Undreamed Ages - A forum for Sword & Sorcery literature and art

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mightymosy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    1. The
    2. Last
    3. Jedi

    I can't think of anything clever for 4 and 5, so this will have to suffice. I can't think of anything Star Wars that even comes close to this "story".
    Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
    What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!

    I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.

    I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
    Want to see my prison tatoo?

    *Branded for double posting*
    Sometimes, being bad feels so good.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    But Star Wars is not about Jedi. It's about rebels and scoundrels, with the occasional Jedi crossing their path,
    That's way too broad. There is a Jedi character playing a significant role in all three OT movies and Luke's heroes journey to become a Jedi is at the heart of those films. Star Wars is absolutely about the Jedi. It's just not only about the Jedi. Exactly where the balance point lands varies. There are good Star Wars stories that are pretty much entirely about the Jedi, and there are good Star Wars stories that don't involve Jedi at all. TCW manages to have arcs on both ends of that spectrum within what is nominally the same show.

    Did the Prequels focus too much on the Jedi? Maybe, certainly it would have been nice to pay more attention to the Republic Senate (several scenes got cut that would have been nice to have). Has the Disney Trilogy focused too much on the Jedi? Perhaps, though it's such a mess that describing it as 'focusing' on anything seems like a reach.

    But what about the rest of the media currently out there? The various Disney EU materials aren't about the Jedi. Resistance isn't about the Jedi. The Mandalorian isn't about the Jedi. SWTOR (which technically still produces new content occasionally) has a heavy Jedi presence to be sure but also had a very large Force using faction that wasn't Jedi or Sith in the Knights of Zakuul and only half the classes are force users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius
    Makes me want to facepalm when I see it in the Star Wars fandom, since that pretty much sums up how Anakin turned into Vader.
    Ordinary people aren't monastic space Shaolin with a mystical energy field whispering in their ears all the time. A large number of people cared very deeply about Star Wars for a very long time, and while there were plenty of ups and downs between 1983 and 2013, because the franchise was ultimately overseen by a single individual, it allowed for a level of consistency and commitment within the fandom that simply wasn't possible with other franchises of such scope. Comics can't do it because they change writers so often, and single author franchises simply can't match the output (though the series that comes closest, Harry Potter is in the process of developing the exact same issues as late-period Lucas Star Wars for almost exactly the same reasons). Star Trek, though it's a very different thing from Star Wars, has also seen similar feelings of betrayal and anger among its fans.

    And in any case its very difficult for fans to let go in response to shifts in quality. If you learn to love something during a period when its genuinely great, and then is gradually drops in quality over time, the impulse is to keep hoping and hoping that the ship will right itself somehow. The anger doesn't emerge until after something so awful has occurred that it breaks through this sunk cost based hesitancy, and because it is a sunk cost the natural result is fury that 'you stole X years of my life!' This isn't even unique to nerd culture, it's all over sports fandom and probably dates back to the Romans. Star Wars might be particularly acute because it has managed to right itself as a franchise in the past. Revenge of the Sith is by no means a great film, but is markedly better than TPM or AotC, and began a path to redeeming the Prequel Era that TCW would later largely finish. The fans know that fixes are possible - even now The Mandalorian exists as a rebuke to the failures of the ST - and so they scream all the louder to try and make them happen.
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Love and hatred are tied together in fandom. The more people care, the more they grow angry when the thing they care about is changed or they feel betrayed by it.
    Nah, in my mind, that's not love. It's possession. It's like getting angry at your girlfriend/boyfriend for having friends outside of you, or angry at your kids for not having the same interests as you.

    To avoid becoming stagnant, Star Wars needs to change, to grow, to adapt. There will always be disagreements on which way it should change, but if the very idea of it changing makes one furious or feel 'betrayed,' then I'd argue that person doesn't love Star Wars. They want to own it.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TeChameleon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Honestly, I'd put something else at number one- the pervasive uselessness of anyone over the age of about twenty-five.

    If you're over thirty, then you have one function, and one function only: to instruct the new protagonist, then die in a heroically useless fashion so that they're 'inspired' to go on with whatever the fight of the moment happens to be. Oh- whilst also paying lip-service to whatever ancient wisdom (nearly forty years old! ) was imparted to them.

    If you think about it, that makes Palpatine's takeover doubly impressive- he not only conquered the galaxy, he did it while everyone else in his generation was dead of stupidity twenty years previously.

    However annoying Jar-Jar might be, he at least didn't embody the frustrating ageist thing that means that mentors have to die instantly and horribly the second the hero can sorta-kinda function on their own. Binks was more as if Lou Costello wandered into the Star Wars universe and got given a vaguely racist minstrel-act voice, then let loose to gain victory through... well, let's be generous and call it 'broad physical comedy', which is weirdly out of place in Star Wars.

    Actually, while I'm ranting... Admiral Pinky (don't remember what her name was, don't care). Why did you introduce her as a hero of the Rebellion, yadda yadda yadda... in a movie where Admiral Ackbar was right there? She did nothing that wouldn't have been done just as easily by Ackbar, and without needing to shoehorn her into the narrative whilst pointlessly chucking Ackbar into deep space. "Hey look, it's a beloved character you remember fondly, and, whoops, he's dead for no reason!"

    And speaking of whiny teenagers... Anakin was a putz, for sure, but Kylo Ren? Eeeeesh. Anakin's dialogue was bad, but at least it didn't leave you fervently wishing someone would punch him in the throat until the noise stopped

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Material Plane
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    As an outsider to Star Wars as a franchise (I do not consider myself a fan, but I don't really hate it or anything; they're okay movies. Better games.) the most annoying thing about the franchise to me is the over-focus on Jedi.

    Jedi are a nearly extinct breed of backwater hicks with outmoded and unsustainable philosophical beliefs which are demonstrably unhealthy to the human mind and soul. As the expanded universe shows, they aren't even objectively correct about their view of the world; there are plenty of other races and places that have never heard of a Jedi and use the Force and whatnot just fine without falling into the Jedi's farcical notion that just because some people who have emotions are bad (the Sith) that emotionless = good.
    I'm sorry but that is a rather common misunderstanding. Being a jedi not about being emotionless. It's about being calm, collected and in control of your emotions. This is the responsible thing to do and maintain on a grand scale when there are people with powerful "supernatural" abilities popping up all over the galaxy. And the jedi try to teach this responsibility to all force sensitive people in the galaxy.

    Otherwise, many people with these powers who don't exercise such restraint might try to exploit them for selfish reasons and... I don't know, opress other people and blow up their planets? Right, this actually happened. Sure, the jedi were not able to stop the rise of Palpatine but it's unreasonable to blame them for trying. Opposing people like Palpatine and the sith is the right, moral thing to do, no matter if you win or lose.

    And.... it's simply not true that all those force user-traditions, who haven't heard of the jedi or the sith are automatically "just fine". If there's power, there's a temptation to abuse it and it applies to them too.
    Of course, the jedi aren't the only tradition that tries to use the Force responsibly but it's still a balancing act, whoever you are. There are no force sensitive people who don't have the risk of falling to the darkside.
    And the sith aren't the only darkside force users in the galaxy: there are other traditions who use the darkside as well and individuals too.

    They are a demonstrably failed experiment in the grand scheme of the universe. They never even lived up to their own ideal and failed miserably to accomplish much of worth in spreading their philosophy in the thousands of years of their existence.
    The jedi philosophy is a mean of controlling all that raw power they possess. Thus, it's mostly applicable to the Force sensitive people. Sure, if other people are inspired by them to do good, great but it's not like "normal" people need to practice the jedi teachings... even though it wouldn't hurt here and there, during some key decision making moments.

    And the jedi certainly lived up to their own ideals. Sure, some of them abused their position of power but the jedi were a self correcting order and dealt with the few bad apples accordingly (or died trying). As a whole, you really can't blame the jedi order and their teachings. They came up with reasonable rules of conduct for themselves (and other people with mystical super powers) and it's not their fault if some of them (like Dooku and Anakin) were not able to live by them. Claiming otherwise would be the equal of claiming that harmful criminal behavior (like supporting tyranny and killing younglings) by an individual is the fault of the legislation that prohibits such activity and the people who enforce these laws.

    Also, the jedi maintained the peace in the galaxy for literally a thousand years. This peace was broken by the sith and if anyone is to blame for two galaxy wide conflicts, all that tyranny and blowing up planets, it's the sith... because, quite simply, they started all that.


    They are also a really a small thing in general with the absolute VASTNESS of the Star Wars universe. There is so much untapped potential this franchise could mine.

    But they don't.

    Every movie is about Jedi. Every game is about Jedi. Every book is about Jedi. If a Jedi is not the main character, there is at least a prominent secondary character who is, or they're an antagonist (if it's a book about Sith; I think the Sith are also overplayed). And if there's a secondary character who's a Jedi there's a solid chance they'll convert the main character somehow over the course of it.

    Enough with the frickin' Jedi already. They were cool when there were only two of them in the entire universe left. They were immediately lame when there was a council of do-nothing hypocrites introduced. Lightsabers are exponentially less cool the more there are in a single scene too.

    Gimme something else.
    Sorry but I've never understood that sentiment.

    That's like reading Harry Potter and demanding that the series was about "muggles" instead of wizards. Or reading Marvel comics and wishing that the series would be about average New Yorkers instead of superheroes. Or watching Seinfeld and complaining that there's not enough samurai-action and they should just ditch those sarcastic average New Yorkers. Or watching Star Trek and wanting the story to ditch all those outer space explorers and focus on people living back on planet Earth.

    Star Wars is ultimately a story about the jedi, the Force and the lightsabers. It always has been, since 1977 and onwards. The original trilogy followed a farmboy who trained to be a jedi. The main villains of that story were force users too and they fought with lightsabers and force powers. The whole conflict of the story ultimately involved the Force and the people who use it for good or evil causes. It's pretty well established. It's only natural to continue these stories by focusing on the jedi.

    Besides, it's not like Star Wars doesn't also have many stories where the force doesn't play such big a part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechalich View Post
    Ordinary people aren't monastic space Shaolin with a mystical energy field whispering in their ears all the time. A large number of people cared very deeply about Star Wars for a very long time, and while there were plenty of ups and downs between 1983 and 2013, because the franchise was ultimately overseen by a single individual, it allowed for a level of consistency and commitment within the fandom that simply wasn't possible with other franchises of such scope. Comics can't do it because they change writers so often, and single author franchises simply can't match the output (though the series that comes closest, Harry Potter is in the process of developing the exact same issues as late-period Lucas Star Wars for almost exactly the same reasons). Star Trek, though it's a very different thing from Star Wars, has also seen similar feelings of betrayal and anger among its fans.

    And in any case its very difficult for fans to let go in response to shifts in quality. If you learn to love something during a period when its genuinely great, and then is gradually drops in quality over time, the impulse is to keep hoping and hoping that the ship will right itself somehow. The anger doesn't emerge until after something so awful has occurred that it breaks through this sunk cost based hesitancy, and because it is a sunk cost the natural result is fury that 'you stole X years of my life!' This isn't even unique to nerd culture, it's all over sports fandom and probably dates back to the Romans. Star Wars might be particularly acute because it has managed to right itself as a franchise in the past. Revenge of the Sith is by no means a great film, but is markedly better than TPM or AotC, and began a path to redeeming the Prequel Era that TCW would later largely finish. The fans know that fixes are possible - even now The Mandalorian exists as a rebuke to the failures of the ST - and so they scream all the louder to try and make them happen.
    Well said. You articulated this very well.

    I were not super happy when they stopped making EU but I still gave Disney-Star Wars a chance and went to see three of the movies: Force Awakens, Rogue One and... The Last Jedi.

    Suffice to say, after that last one, I lost all interest to Disney-Star Wars and now I won't watch those movies or read their books, comics or whatever. Unless they raise the overall quality of their writing and by a massive margin. Of course, even then I wouldn't give any praise to the Sequel Trilogy.

    However, it's not like all of EU has suddenly disappeared and there's still plenty of that stuff that would be new experiences to me.
    Last edited by Raimun; 2019-12-20 at 09:25 PM.
    Signatures are so 90's.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    And posting top 5's about it on forums?
    Oh, yeah, that’s the worst!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    I'm sorry but that is a rather common misunderstanding. Being a jedi not about being emotionless. It's about being calm, collected and in control of your emotions. This is the responsible thing to do and maintain on a grand scale when there are people with powerful "supernatural" abilities popping up all over the galaxy. And the jedi try to teach this responsibility to all force sensitive people in the galaxy.

    Otherwise, many people with these powers who don't exercise such restraint might try to exploit them for selfish reasons and... I don't know, opress other people and blow up their planets? Right, this actually happened. Sure, the jedi were not able to stop the rise of Palpatine but it's unreasonable to blame them for trying. Opposing people like Palpatine and the sith is the right, moral thing to do, no matter if you win or lose.
    That is not at all how it's described, though. It is a complete rejection of all material attachments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    And.... it's simply not true that all those force user-traditions, who haven't heard of the jedi or the sith are automatically "just fine". If there's power, there's a temptation to abuse it and it applies to them too.
    Of course, the jedi aren't the only tradition that tries to use the Force responsibly but it's still a balancing act, whoever you are. There are no force sensitive people who don't have the risk of falling to the darkside.
    And the sith aren't the only darkside force users in the galaxy: there are other traditions who use the darkside as well and individuals too.
    Exactly. Which means the Jedi way is not the only way to be a "good" Force user, and the Sith are not the only "Evil" Force users. The rejection of mortal attachments is not the only (or, potentially, even the most viable) method of controlling the Force.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post

    And the jedi certainly lived up to their own ideals. Sure, some of them abused their position of power but the jedi were a self correcting order and dealt with the few bad apples accordingly (or died trying). As a whole, you really can't blame the jedi order and their teachings. They came up with reasonable rules of conduct for themselves (and other people with mystical super powers) and it's not their fault if some of them (like Dooku and Anakin) were not able to live by them. Claiming otherwise would be the equal of claiming that harmful criminal behavior (like supporting tyranny and killing younglings) by an individual is the fault of the legislation that prohibits such activity and the people who enforce these laws.
    It's not even the "bad apples". Every single one of the Jedi that has ever appeared on screen has been ruled by their emotions. Luke and his desire for justice, Obi-Wan and his desire for vengeance, the entire Council and their emotional attachment to the "old ways", etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    Sorry but I've never understood that sentiment.

    That's like reading Harry Potter and demanding that the series was about "muggles" instead of wizards. Or reading Marvel comics and wishing that the series would be about average New Yorkers instead of superheroes. Or watching Seinfeld and complaining that there's not enough samurai-action and they should just ditch those sarcastic average New Yorkers. Or watching Star Trek and wanting the story to ditch all those outer space explorers and focus on people living back on planet Earth.

    Star Wars is ultimately a story about the jedi, the Force and the lightsabers. It always has been, since 1977 and onwards. The original trilogy followed a farmboy who trained to be a jedi. The main villains of that story were force users too and they fought with lightsabers and force powers. The whole conflict of the story ultimately involved the Force and the people who use it for good or evil causes. It's pretty well established. It's only natural to continue these stories by focusing on the jedi.

    Besides, it's not like Star Wars doesn't also have many stories where the force doesn't play such big a part.
    I disagree with that assessment. None of the original movies were about the Jedi. They were about Luke. Luke was A Jedi, and the story was about him and his rise to become a hero, but the story was not about THE Jedi. There were more important non-Jedi characters than Jedi ones, which is demonstrably not the case starting with the prequel trilogy.

    Star Wars is at its least interesting when it stops being its own universe and own story and becomes "An Abridged History of Ye Esteemed Jedi Order", which unfortunately it has been for quite a while now.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Aotrs Commander's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Derby, UK and Bleak Despair battlestation. Species: Spirit-Bound Skeletal Lich (Lawful Evil)
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Raimun View Post
    Star Wars is ultimately a story about the jedi, the Force and the lightsabers. It always has been, since 1977 and onwards. The original trilogy followed a farmboy who trained to be a jedi. The main villains of that story were force users too and they fought with lightsabers and force powers. The whole conflict of the story ultimately involved the Force and the people who use it for good or evil causes. It's pretty well established. It's only natural to continue these stories by focusing on the jedi.
    Very much disagree.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
    It's not difficult to find spaceship battles
    Where?

    No, really, I want to know, because in my estimation, competantly executed starship battles have been rarer than roc's teeth for over two decades.



    Fricking SHADOW RAIDERS is still holding the crown for mass fighter combat (a CGI show from the late 90s) and despite a few attempts by SG-1 (of very mixed success) and one notable solid effort from season two of Orville, Babylon 5 still hasn't been topped in capital ship combat since the same time-period.

    Clone Wars series? The only fracking thing that has made something of a passable attempt.

    (NuBSG couldn't even hold the fricking camera still and the less said about nuTrek (on either big or small screen) the better.)
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2019-12-20 at 09:43 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2011

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    The thing about Star Wars, is that it's basically a pretty generic setting without the Jedi.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    I really hate these debates about jedi philosophy.
    The thing is, while calm detatchment is a fairly ubiquitous part of the jedi code, the idea that you must reject any and all emotion really isn't. What you see in the prequels is a very small section of the jedi. Mostly, you're seeing the jedi masters - the ones who have most wholeheartedly devoted themseves to being jedi - and at the very end of a very, very long reign. It's basically the most extreme example of jedi you could possiby find. People then use that to argue that the jedi are fundamentally a terrible idea. Even within the prequels, though, look at Obi-Wan; he's the jedi master we see the most, and he seems like a genuinely great guy. A bit overbearing to have as a mentor, but I'd happily spend a day with him just to chew the fat.

    The idea that jedi as a whole are entirely isolationist monks who stamp out any sign of individuality or emotion just isn't supported by a broader look at the universe.

    As for why every story seems to be about jedi? Well, it's a combination of three things.
    First, Star Wars is a universe of great scale. There are smaller stories to be told, but the franchise is known for kilometers-long warships, weapons large enough to destroy planets, and conflicts spanning the galaxy. Heck, it's baked into the name: Star Wars.
    Second, the Star Wars universe has an... entity... keeping balance. There's something holding the universe together, actively keeping things in check.
    Third, jedi are the most well-known force users.
    So, we have grand conflicts affecting trillions. That means the "referee" for the universe - The Force - steps in. The main instrument the force uses is Jedi. Jedi are always at the centre of important events because that's where the universe puts them.
    Now, I enjoy the non-jedi stories - in fact, I'd say that, on average, they're better than the ones that focus on jedi - but the reason why they're always involved is pretty well established, and sort of hard to ignore at this point.
    That's all I can think of, at any rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by remetagross View Post
    All hail the mighty Strigon! One only has to ask, and one shall receive.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Reddish Mage's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    The Chi
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    I think the the thing that bothers forum fans about the Jedi is that the OT and beyond suggest there is only a handful of these types left in the entire galaxy. However, it seems to be obligatory that specifically Jedi or closely-Jedi related characters accompany every new story regardless of whether its a video game, novel, comic or board game.


    The result is simply an ever expanding cast of powerful Force-sensitives. I don't really see the problem with that. However, I see that this limits the universe of story telling greatly when it becomes obligatory to include a space wizard (or at least space apprentice) in the party. Also, really none of these stories can break much ground when it comes to truly understanding what the Force is, what it wants, what it does, who it chooses and how it shapes the lives of Force-users and the history of the entire galaxy.

    I think the combination of seeing Star Wars stories saturated with Jedi, and the lack of any real earth-shaking revelations about the Force, may frustrate a certain kind of fandom that is hungry for explanation, and dislikes seeing things that don't jive with the way we are told the universe is set up.

    Finally, maybe some people just don't get why space wizards with laser swords are so fascinating they need to be everywhere. I get that such people exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    It would have been awesome if the writers had put as much thought into it as you guys do.
    The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.

    Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2015

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Strigon View Post
    Third, jedi are the most well-known force users.
    Its worth noting that, during the period when Lucas controlled the franchise, they were also the one's who were 'right.' Word of God from Lucas was that the Jedi understood the Force the best, were the most in tune with it and had a more complete moral philosophy than any other faction. The laws of the universe were simply on the side of the Jedi and if an author created another Force tradition they had to be in some way 'wrong.' From a religious perspective the Jedi had the one true path and everyone else, however well meaning, was a heretic.

    Now, with the exception of Troy Denning (and his abuse of the first Solo child to fall to the dark side), most of the authors shied away from this, and as a result largely avoided getting into detail with other Force traditions at all save as mostly one-off villains. And the best-defined of the non-Jedi force traditions, the Nightsisters of Dathomir, strongly reinforces this point. The Nightsisters, for all that they can do some awesome things, clearly have an unrefined understanding of the Force compared to the Jedi.

    And then there's a the aesthetic perspective. In terms of visual iconography the Jedi/Sith have a monopoly of lightsabers, to the point that when any character picks one up you think they're going to be a Jedi (TFA pulled this trick with Finn). Or even if they're not, they'll get treated like a Jedi. Technically neither of these characters are Jedi or Sith, but I doubt someone who'd never played SWTOR would guess that. Likewise lightsabers, because they can detect blaster bolts, allow the Jedi to function as melee combatants in a ranged universe, something that others can't do - watch the slaughter of the Nightsisters in TCW for an example - but at the same time a force user who fights with blasters looks like anyone else, especially because Star Wars is loose enough with its gunplay that John Wick style gun-fu would barely stand out.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Rise of Skywalker actually proves this point. The Knights of Ren have ordinary melee weapons and are completely forgettable, they're less interesting visually than the red guards in TLJ. Kylo Ren pulls off a few bits of gun-fu and it doesn't look like anything Finn or Poe didn't do in the star destroyed hallway fight earlier.
    Resvier: a P6 homebrew setting

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Chimera

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Canada

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    In no particular order:

    • Ticking Clocks are BS Seriously, every time someone starts a countdown, you know some BS is gonna pop up. Whether it's the original Death Star run having numbers onscreen not matching the dialogue, how long until the fleet runs out of fuel in TLJ, how long until Starkiller base will charge it's weapon ... all these countdowns are annoying and BS.
    • So, are Droids sentient? Are they slaves? The status and implications of droids is one of those logs on the forest floor that if you turn it over, bugs go everywhere. That's one of the reasons I dislike Solo, they turn over that log with L3-37, and then just play it off for cheap laughs.
    • The OT is treated as untouchable It's just kinda assumed that nothing will match the OT in terms of quality, and I'm not sure that's true. The Last Jedi can make a strong case for being a superior movie, and I'm really fond of Rogue 1, despite it's flaws. I get it, nostalgia is a heady drug, but still ...
    • Power ranking the movies is also BS I, like most fans, tend to put ESB at the top of the list. And it probably is the best qualitatively. But, well, see previous point. And, also ... if you were to say to me, "let's sit down and watch one of the movies, doesn't matter which" ... I'd probably pick RotJ. Cause, while it's silly, it has the best ending battle, the ending is pretty satisfying, it's one of the ones Lucas monkeyed with the least ... though I miss the Yub Yub song.
    • Toxicity in fandom This is a big one. I always feel hyperbolic and prone to error if I try to rank fandoms from most to least toxic, but I do often feel like this is one of the more toxic. Especially after the whole fiasco involving Kelly Marie Tran. Not to mention Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Aotrs Commander View Post
    Fricking SHADOW RAIDERS is still holding the crown for mass fighter combat (a CGI show from the late 90s)
    Now there’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. Was also amused that that it was one of the few series where the space-insects were the most “refined” and sociable species.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImperiousLeader View Post
    it's one of the ones Lucas monkeyed with the least ... though I miss the Yub Yub song.
    Gotta disagree. There are a lot of things Lucas should not have messed with, but “Victory Celebration” fits the mood way better than “Yub Nub”.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Anonymouswizard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In my library

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I am okay with KotOR because that series is specifically about the Jedi and set at a time when the Jedi were at their prime.
    KotOR works because it's at the same time exploring the Jedi and using an ever so slightly different version than the one from the prequel and original trilogies. Notably the rules on emotional attachments may be different.

    But the first game feels like an attempt to explore the duality of the Light and Dark and the space in between. To me the most interesting character in it is Revan, who it seems was more of a 'Grey Sith' than anything else.

    The second game is more commentary on the Force itself, and questioning if there even is a right side to the conflict. The Jedi and Light Side are certainly framed as better, but the conflict itself has been going on for thousands of years, will likely go on for thousands more years, and are the Jedi worth the conflict? It's actually an interesting question, one the game really can't answer itself, and doesn't care if the Jedi are right about the Force.

    I really like KotOR, I think the two game are the best exploration of the Force, the Jedi, and the Sith in the entire franchise, and I hope at some point we get a proper sequel to the second game.
    Snazzy avatar (now back! ) by Honest Tiefling.

    RIP Laser-Snail, may you live on in our hearts forever.

    Spoiler: playground quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    1) The story
    I understand the feelings about episode 1 but it was perfectly fine with a bit of world building that really doesn't make sense if you try to look at the large picture.

    For example the Republic and the Jedi had resulted in a peace lasting a thousand years however despite their supposed vigilance the Sith an opposing faith to the Jedi pogram still exists.

    KOTOR makes it clear how could there be a peace if both sides were as bad as each other?

    Ideally they should have revealed a Jedi lineage families with many force using members who allied with the Republic kept the peace as best as they could.

    Jedi like Yoda would have been better served as members of a monastic order that stayed out of the politics thereby we get the reinforced impression he DOES know better but by isolating himself he can't keep abreast of current events which is how the Sith blindside him yet still fail to either capture or kill him.

    Sorry if I'm going off topic but for me the story matters a hell of a lot more than cgi or trite attempts at romance that don't work without good writing or a plot.

    2)Episode 7
    By itself the Force Awakens is ok not great but okay the reason I mark it as the 2nd annoyance is because thanks to episode 8 it made this really terrible through some idiot deciding they could rain hell on what was already a shaky premise.
    I think Rian thought he was going to making both episode 8 AND 9 which would explain this utter disaster.

    This is the first movie throughout the franchise where I could poke holes in the story, not even the prequels managed that!

    It was fine until they separated Finn & Poe that was the first mistake.
    Keep them together reveal Poe's a great pilot but lousy survivalist whilst Finn is a heck of a trooper but no pilot but put him in charge of a squad and he'll demonstrate just how good he is!
    Rey is a scavenger just reveal she was raised by a force user on Jakku who mind whammied her to keep her safely hidden much like Yoda was on Dagobah.
    So she's a fully trained padawan just unable to remember that until Finn returns for her which ends the mind whammy but the returning memories take time to return but Kylo Ren a force prodigy whose strictly a newbie with the saber there you go that's why he lost he was badly hurt and couldn't fight Rey under those circumstances especially after almost breaking the mind whammy she was under the real reason she turned the table on him in that interrogation.

    The Force Awakens could have been so much better but it was still fine as a start it just annoys me how badly they messed up afterwards!

    3) Rogue One & Solo
    The only mistakes in Rogue One was killing off the group when you could have spared a couple for a sequel and having the Tantive IV at Scariff when it shouldn't have been there!
    As for Solo all they needed was a scene where we see them rescue a few of those wookies from Kessel they help repair the Falcon so Lando can take off with a scene of the wookies talking to Nests crew and there we go resolve the mess they caused by having Next ask Han for help!
    God that annoyed me!

    4) Holiday Special
    Is it really that bad any more?
    Seriously could you ask Lucas if he could rerelease that just to demonstrate the contempt he must have for what Disney has done?

    5) The Mandalorian

    Seriously wtf were you doing to release something THIS good and still screw up the ST?!

    Finally thank you ever so much for this thread!
    It was nice to be able to try and unload all those misgivings I had and I hope they were clear enough for you.

    I still have no problems with the cast its just the script and world building (what there was of it which was mostly Lucas who at least tried!) I have problems with!

    Is it bad I wanted Holdo to be a New Republic Admiral and not Resistance so there was a fcuking reason why she didn't trust anyone?!!

    Or reveal that ice mining obscenity Rose & Paige flew on were civilian craft and not military explaining why they were piss poor bombers!!!

    And reveal Holdo recruited Finn for the mission to Canto Blight which was intended that he help a New Republic Special forces team infiltrate the Supremacy to delete their records because Snoke conned the New Republic into tagging ALL of their ships with modified Imperial technology (Star Wars Rebels the Inquisitor used a missile version to tag the Phantom) so they could prevent a Rebel Alliance being founded against them?!

    Leia suspected the truth and Han returned to smuggling to supply them with untagged ships allowing them to avoid First Order detection but as a result the New Republic coerced by Snoke assumed the worst and THATS why they were so poorly funded they were trying to counter efforts by BOTH the First Order AND the New Republic to thwart them despite the fact the New Republic knew Leia & Han were trying to find their son!

    I'd have gone further and reveal the New Republic bombed Luke's temple and not Ben going ape**** that was just the Senate trying to cover up how badly they had been played by Snoke!

    So there was so many ways the ST should have been better now if you'll excuse me I need to watch some Log Horizon to get THAT out of my system...

    I do have a copy of Shadow Raiders actually, I should go back and watch that again, cheers!
    Last edited by Hopeless; 2019-12-21 at 08:41 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GrayDeath's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    In the Heart of Europe
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    KotOR works because it's at the same time exploring the Jedi and using an ever so slightly different version than the one from the prequel and original trilogies. Notably the rules on emotional attachments may be different.

    But the first game feels like an attempt to explore the duality of the Light and Dark and the space in between. To me the most interesting character in it is Revan, who it seems was more of a 'Grey Sith' than anything else.

    The second game is more commentary on the Force itself, and questioning if there even is a right side to the conflict. The Jedi and Light Side are certainly framed as better, but the conflict itself has been going on for thousands of years, will likely go on for thousands more years, and are the Jedi worth the conflict? It's actually an interesting question, one the game really can't answer itself, and doesn't care if the Jedi are right about the Force.

    I really like KotOR, I think the two game are the best exploration of the Force, the Jedi, and the Sith in the entire franchise, and I hope at some point we get a proper sequel to the second game.


    I couldnt agree more.

    Which is why I was so disappyointed by the Revan Novel.


    As for what was said before: No, the jedi code(s) dont actually make one remove oneself totally from Emotions.
    But the Jedi Traditions and Teachings shown in the Prequel Trilogy and cohorts (CLone wars, Books from that time) do.
    Now one has to understand that the fossilized state of the jedi in that time was supported by Sith working in the Background, but still, people as old as Yoda or one of the other multy Century masters should ahve understood that "One set of rules for all" in an order made up from hundreds of races and dozens of Steps of mastery in the force simply CANNOT work.

    Ah well, an old beef with me. I`ll be quiet. ^^
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”


    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: The Five Most Annoying Aspects of Star Wars

    Revan is the overhyped. Which is perhaps the real problem with the Jedi. It's been some 15-20 years now, but I remember how every Jedi ever was called the most powerful of all time.

    Luke was the most powerful ever. Vader was the most powerful ever. Yoda was the most powerful ever. The Emperor was the most powerful ever. Mace Windu was the most powerful ever. Revan was the most powerful ever. I'm sure Darth Bane and Obi-Wan also were called the most powerful ever. Based on not actually anything. So annoying.

    There was a great article years ago on a site that no longer exists, but I had the foresight to keep a copy. It was written the week after Episode 3 premiered:

    By: Adam Summers 5/23/05

    My girlfriend doesn’t understand what I see in Star Wars. We’ve had several soul-crushing arguments about what exactly makes this series so important to me, and every time I have found it more and more difficult to argue my case. As the maddening years have wound on, I think I finally understand the reason for this crippling handicap.

    There is a diabolical twist to Star Wars fandom, you see, that defies comprehension, and yet is the life-blood of all Star Wars fans. It is this:

    Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

    If you run into somebody who tells you they thought the franchise was quite enjoyable, and they very-much liked the originals as well as the prequels, and even own everything on DVD, and a few of the books, these imposters are not Star Wars Fans.

    Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

    The primary fulcrum for the Star Wars fan’s hate (including my own) is George Lucas, creator of Star Wars. Unlike Trekkies/Trekkers who adore Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry, Star Wars fans hate the father of their obsession. We hate the fact that George Lucas got it wrong from the beginning, creating incest between Luke and Leia. We hate the fact that he wrenched Return of the Jedi off of Kashyyyk and set it on Endor with those tiny, furry Hobbit bitches he called “Ewoks”, which is a syllabic anagram of Wookiee if you’re obsessed enough. We despise the entire existence of literally half of the Star Wars movies, blaming George Lucas’ greed and flawed ‘vision’ for everything.

    We believe George Lucas’ ideal death time was 2:07am, 14 November, 1990.

    Star Wars fans also hate the original Star Wars trilogy. We think Mark Hamill’s acting was whiny, the pacing was flawed, and Empire was better than Jedi, making the end of the series a let-down. We hate the way Boba Fett died, and we hate the cantankerous, arthritic duel between Vader and Obi-wan. We don’t understand why the storm-troopers can’t shoot worth a damn, and we don’t get why “an entire legion of [the Emperor’s] best troops”(ROTJ, Palpatine) can be overpowered by a tribal society of midget teddy-bears armed largely with rocks and twigs. Star Wars fans hate omnipotent war-machines that get their legs tangled in strings, or slip on logs. They hate Darth Vader’s face and that stupid harmonica thing he was playing. Star Wars fans hate the original Star Wars trilogy.

    There is also, as you probably know, a series of Special Editions that have replaced the original Star Wars trilogy, and these are also hated by Star Wars fans with an even more scorching fervor. Star Wars fans hate the glaring CG changes made to scenes we already hated to begin with. We hate that Han Solo now killed Greedo in self-defense, and then stepped on Jabba the Hutt’s tail (which we liken to Carrot Top stepping on Fidel Castro’s tail). We hate the fact that the ghost of Alec Guinness (whose name is an anagram of Genuine Class, by the way) now stands next to Hayden Christensen (whose name I tried to re-arrange into a flattering anagram myself, but only came up with “Nn…Dense Chest Hair”). Star Wars fans are unsure if Fidel Castro has a tail or not, but we hate the Special Editions of the trilogy just the same.

    There is of course also a prequel trilogy to Star Wars. It is newer, more epic, more expensive, and more visually stunning than the original trilogy. Star Wars fans know this, and so we hate it even more. We hate it with the burning passion of a setting pair of twin suns. Jar Jar Binks, Midichlorians, technology that is blatantly more sophisticated than the “later” original trilogy…we despise all of it. There’s nothing a Star Wars fan hates more than a Star Wars prequel. They demystified Boba Fett, contradicted countless lines in the original trilogy (Obi-Wan: “He was our only hope.” Yoda: “No…there is another.” Obi-Wan (not in script): “Oh, right, I f*cking held both of these kids as they were born in Episode 3. Sorry Yoda, I just plumb forgot!”)

    Star Wars fans think Mark Ha…uh…Hayden Christensen’s acting was whiny. And the pacing was flawed.

    Beyond the movies, there are also various television-related Star Wars endeavors which Star Wars fans despise. Starting with that abysmal “Holiday Special” in which Carrie Fisher appeared drunk and tried to celebrate Christmas through song in a Jesus-less galaxy, Star Wars fans have watched and hated everything. We think Droids was a waste of time, Ewok Adventures was an extension of everything we hated about Return of the Jedi, and we’ve seen both seasons of Clone Wars which we hate because we believe them to be immensely inconsistent with the prequels we also hate.

    Star Wars fans think the Star Wars comic-books are a stockpile of contrivance written for marketing purposes by people who know nothing about Star Wars. Every gimmick imaginable to bring back super-weapons long destroyed and token bad-guys long-beaten is spewed forth from these comic books, and Star Wars fans want nothing to do with it. Star Wars fans have read the one in which Han Solo works in tandem with a giant rabbit and we are not impressed.

    Then, naturally, there are the videogames. Star Wars fans hate LucasArts, and the opportunist drivel that comprises most of the gameplay-less apertures known as Star Wars games that they vomit up every fiscal quarter. Star Wars fans know that there is no such thing as a good Star Wars strategy game, we yelled at our PS1 when Masters of Teras-Kasi came out, and we kind-of liked the Jedi Knight series, but not at first and definitely not towards the end. Star Wars fans did not like Knights of the Old Republic, unless they were RPG fans. This does not count. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars videogames.

    The final main elixir of Star Wars folklore is the ever-growing library of Star Wars books. These have managed to make a complex main character our of practically every background alien seen in the movies, and expanded the universe into a colossal, self-contradictory maze. Star Wars fans hate this. We hate how trite and tired the books were getting before the New Jedi Order series, and we hate the New Jedi Order series for being so radically different, and not nearly trite or tired enough. Star Wars fans hate it when previously-deceased characters are brought back to life, but we also hate Timothy Zahn for not bringing his characters back to life. Star Wars fans did not hate Grand Admiral Thrawn, but we do now, because he is always dead. The Star Wars movies also contradict and completely ignore droves of information within the Star Wars books. Star Wars fans now know that George Lucas has no idea who Jaster Mareel is, and it makes us very angry. Star Wars fans hate Star Wars books.

    Now that I have covered all of this, you can finally begin to compute why I can never prove to Emily that Star Wars is a monumental event worth devoting one’s life to. The very nature of the argument means I have to defend Star Wars, and since I am a Star Wars fan, I don’t actually understand how to do that.

    Maybe I’ll put it like this. To be a Star Wars fan, one must possess the ability to see a million different failures and downfalls, and then somehow assemble them into a greater picture of perfection. Every true Star Wars fan is a Luke Skywalker, looking at his twisted, evil father, and somehow seeing good.

    My earlier statement needs slight revision. We hate everything about Star Wars.

    But the idea of Star Wars…the idea we love.
    Last edited by Yora; 2019-12-21 at 08:52 AM.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor
    Undreamed Ages - A forum for Sword & Sorcery literature and art

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •