Gunnerkrigg Court 8: Thrown for a Loup

[sihnfahl]

Woo. Bye Reynardine...

[Willie the Duck]

Okay, Loup, so you just destroyed a bargaining chip, while communicating that you are willing to do harm to the people and things the protagonists love (something they already know). What exactly is the endgame here?

[Vinyadan]

Okay, Loup, so you just destroyed a bargaining chip, while communicating that you are willing to do harm to the people and things the protagonists love (something they already know). What exactly is the endgame here?

Yep, this reminded me of that time when he made the shield demonstration to Annie, except that time he actually used the demonstration and did not attack (yet). To be honest, that didn't look like a smart move: if he wanted Coyote's power back, destroying Renard's original receptacle goes in the opposite direction.

[Willie the Duck]

Yep, this reminded me of that time when he made the shield demonstration to Annie, except that time he actually used the demonstration and did not attack (yet). To be honest, that didn't look like a smart move: if he wanted Coyote's power back, destroying Renard's original receptacle goes in the opposite direction.

Thinking about this, if Loup were cagey and smart, what they should have said was, "give me Coyote's power, and I'll put you back in your own body, and the people you slayed with this power alive and back in their bodies*." It'd be something Rey (on his redemption arc) could hardly refuse, gives back the power to Loup, and distracts the protagonists with dealing with getting all the different people suddenly alive again back into their lives.
*maybe Daniel has to take over the stuffed wolf, as I assume his body is decayed and gone.

[Squire Doodad]

Thinking about this, if Loup were cagey and smart, what they should have said was, "give me Coyote's power, and I'll put you back in your own body, and the people you slayed with this power alive and back in their bodies*." It'd be something Rey (on his redemption arc) could hardly refuse, gives back the power to Loup, and distracts the protagonists with dealing with getting all the different people suddenly alive again back into their lives.
*maybe Daniel has to take over the stuffed wolf, as I assume his body is decayed and gone.

Does Rey still count as being in a redemption arc? I think at this point he's more an ordinary guy (fox) with a dried bloodstain he has to live with.
Narratively he's already done a fair bit to show the readers he has redeemed himself, culminating in the Hetty chapter.

Agreed with you on Loup's actions though - either this is some sort of illusion or Loup doesn't get how bargaining chips work.
I don't think the Daniel thing would actually work given how we've seen ghosts - they're few and far between, and you can't seem to grab anything from beyond the Ether itself - so I could see a Chekov's gun setup where Daniel as a ghost is still around but it's unlikely.

[Willie the Duck]

Does Rey still count as being in a redemption arc? I think at this point he's more an ordinary guy (fox) with a dried bloodstain he has to live with.
Narratively he's already done a fair bit to show the readers he has redeemed himself, culminating in the Hetty chapter.

Maybe, but don't you think he'd jump at the chance of not having to live with it (/he still did the killing, but they didn't take)?

I don't think the Daniel thing would actually work given how we've seen ghosts - they're few and far between, and you can't seem to grab anything from beyond the Ether itself - so I could see a Chekov's gun setup where Daniel as a ghost is still around but it's unlikely.

Well if everyone knows it can't be done then yes it wouldn't work. I'm not sure we know that, and I'm pretty sure the characters in-strip aren't sure Coyote/Loup can't do that.

Regardless, looks like it is as we thought - Loup doesn't know what bargaining ships are, nor what lessons are. He wants Rey to 'think on' the fact that he can hurt them (something they've known and spent the past however many months dealing with).

[Pax1138]

I don't think we need to ascribe any particular sense of planning or overall goal to Loup's actions right now. He's a child thoughtlessly lashing out to hurt those he perceives are hurting him, both for the "trick" when they tried to capture him, and his jealousy as Jerrek.

[Gez]

I don't think we need to ascribe any particular sense of planning or overall goal to Loup's actions right now. He's a child thoughtlessly lashing out to hurt those he perceives are hurting him, both for the "trick" when they tried to capture him, and his jealousy as Jerrek.

It's just jealousy. The trick serves as a pretext here but in reality it just amused him; he was playing along for the fun of turning the table on them.

[Willie the Duck]

I don't think we need to ascribe any particular sense of planning or overall goal to Loup's actions right now. He's a child thoughtlessly lashing out to hurt those he perceives are hurting him, both for the "trick" when they tried to capture him, and his jealousy as Jerrek.

I mean, yes, that is the straightforward answer. I'm just looking for meaning behind the comments like, "I'm not taking this seriously, eh?," and, "let this be a lesson." This doesn't show that he's taking this any more or less seriously, nor does it teach any real lesson. Either Tom thinks he is making a point I don't see, or (as you say), this is just a child lashing out.

[Vinyadan]

I don't think we need to ascribe any particular sense of planning or overall goal to Loup's actions right now. He's a child thoughtlessly lashing out to hurt those he perceives are hurting him, both for the "trick" when they tried to capture him, and his jealousy as Jerrek.

I think that there might be a bit of Ysengrin acting, too. Ysengrin really liked Annie (which could be why Loup is so attracted to her, although interpreting this feeling as an adolescent robot and a newborn god), but he also was the one who taught her to meditate and gave her a lot of food for thought (and this could be why Loup likes how Annie thinks when compared to the robochick, he unconsciously recognizes the tracks left by his Ysengrim part in her).

Interesting that Loup, a young god born from the union of two ancient beings, is now forcing himself into an even younger body, pretending to be an older mind in it.

[wingnutx]

Renard's body was waiting there all this time?

[Rodin]

Renard's body was waiting there all this time?

Yes, Coyote showed it off a long time ago. Kept in stasis/magical sleep in case Renard ever managed to go back into it.

[sihnfahl]

Renard's body was waiting there all this time?

Yep. Coyote put it into suspended animation, so if he ever wanted to come back...

[137beth]

So,

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Robot somehow figured it out. Or Annie or Kat figured it out and told him.

[wingnutx]

This is not going to turn out well for him.

[WanderingMist]

This is not going to turn out well for him.

I don't see why it wouldn't. If anything, he has power over Loup because Annie and Kat will be extremely suspicious if something happens to Robot.

[slayerx]

So,

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Robot somehow figured it out. Or Annie or Kat figured it out and told him.

Simple way for him to figure out; he helped guide the robots through their character creation. He likely knows every robot that went through the process and he would notice an extra

[Squire Doodad]

While it's possible that Robot noticed an unusual spare person, there is the question of how...subtle Loup has been.
He's apparently been super-speed warping himself here and there and doing some degree of mysterious machinations that Robot could have caught eye of. While the Court might not be paying any particular attention to the new people let alone Jerrek specifically, there's plenty of ways Robot could have gotten a hint that Jerrek was Loup specifically on top of knowing he wasn't quite what he seems.

Do the robots have good memory or is it more human-like? We've seen them be forgetful though they could still be above human levels...either way, I do kind of question whether Robot remembers each and every robot he has helped.

[Pax1138]

And there's our answer, simple and clean. And I remain very concerned for Robot.

[sihnfahl]

And there's our answer, simple and clean. And I remain very concerned for Robot.

I doubt Robot would have approached Loup without some sort of plan...

[Neoriceisgood]

I doubt Robot would have approached Loup without some sort of plan...

"Oh ok, cool. Just wanted to confirm that."

[geoduck]

I'll actually be impressed with Tom S. if he has Robot try to make some kind of deal with Loup, and Loup just says "No, screw you" CRUNCH.

[Kornaki]

Robot almost certainly has contingencies for loup's identity to be revealed if he gets eaten, which will stop loup from eating him.

Of course if loup really was as immersed as coyote as he promised here

https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2582

He would have just said no, and who knows if that would have worked?

I'm now envisioning a horror comedy where a new person figures out who he is every day and the secondary characters just drop like flies while the protagonists investigate why they keep dying. And the whole time loup things he's a master of deception.

[Rodin]

Robot almost certainly has contingencies for loup's identity to be revealed if he gets eaten, which will stop loup from eating him.

Of course if loup really was as immersed as coyote as he promised here

https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2582

He would have just said no, and who knows if that would have worked?

I'm now envisioning a horror comedy where a new person figures out who he is every day and the secondary characters just drop like flies while the protagonists investigate why they keep dying. And the whole time loup things he's a master of deception.

Loup doesn't have the same power or control as Coyote, and he certainly doesn't have the understanding. Coyote would have become Jerrek, which would have made this conversation very interesting because he would truly believe he was Jerrek.

Loup is just Loup riding around in a Jerrek-shaped body. Even so, he's starting to feel the effects. Form dictates function as we've seen with Renard. In his teddy bear form he's much more cynical and prone to his darker impulses. He's spent more and more time in wolf form as he has become more noble.

Loup's going to find his worldview changed by this.

[WanderingMist]

Loup doesn't have the same power or control as Coyote, and he certainly doesn't have the understanding. Coyote would have become Jerrek, which would have made this conversation very interesting because he would truly believe he was Jerrek.

Loup is just Loup riding around in a Jerrek-shaped body. Even so, he's starting to feel the effects. Form dictates function as we've seen with Renard. In his teddy bear form he's much more cynical and prone to his darker impulses. He's spent more and more time in wolf form as he has become more noble.

Loup's going to find his worldview changed by this.

Loup has been Jerrek for all of what, 2 days? It took Coyote either 6 or 7 days to forget he was Coyote and not a dead goose in a bush next to a lake.

[Kornaki]

I forgot about that

https://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1810

It was 4 days.

In the first three days coyote at least stuck to the bit without popping in and out, so I doubt loup is on pace to match the feat.

[sihnfahl]

And there's Robot's plan to survive.

"I know, but I don't care so long as you don't get involved in the robots." Whom Loup didn't really have much interest in. So, nothing lost on Loup's side?

[WanderingMist]

And there's Robot's plan to survive.

"I know, but I don't care so long as you don't get involved in the robots." Whom Loup didn't really have much interest in. So, nothing lost on Loup's side?

Note how his deal doesn't include Annie, Shadow or most importantly, Kat, the one he sees as an angel.

[Kornaki]

Note how his deal doesn't include Annie, Shadow or most importantly, Kat, the one he sees as an angel.

He knows loup is here to mess with Annie, so that's not a deal he can try to strike. He probably assumes Kat can handle herself. No idea about Shadow.

[sihnfahl]

Note how his deal doesn't include Annie, Shadow or most importantly, Kat, the one he sees as an angel.

That's because Loup stated his business is not with the robots or Kat. He doesn't need to make a deal about them.

Same probably concerns Shadow. He knows Loup is only interested in Annie now.