Gunnerkrigg Court 8: Thrown for a Loup

[wingnutx]

The chapter cover and treatise art generally shows them paired with their symbols.

Kat's looks like a circuit trace.

[hajo]

does anyone have an explanation of what Kat's symbol means IRL?

It is the sign of the creator

That symbol appeared a lot earlier,
but right now I cannot find the comic where the robots inscribed it at her workshop...

Edit: I found it - the comic where the robots inscribed that symbol at her workshop.

[Murk]

Yea, it was originally Diego's symbol, as the original "creator". Basically an honorific symbol from the court robots. Now bestowed to Kat.

[Squire Doodad]

Yeah, this is where our IRL age-based romance taboos hit a paradox. Loup is technically less than a year old, but also has the memories of beings of mythic age*. Would him pairing with a teen be squicky one way, or the other, or does him being emotionally like a teenager trump everything else? I'm not sure. Mind you, him lying about his identity here and wanting to use her and probably kill her and all sorts of other things are also roadblocks, so yeah, lots of humbling and establishing between here and there.
*not sure we have actual ages for Coyote and Ysengrin, and would you believe Coyote's anyway?

Loup is a huge mess either way, but that's more a feature of villain romances.
It feels like there's been a bit of a disconnect from the day-to-day strip reader's understanding of the comic and what Tom has in mind. Things like The Mind Cage made little to no sense and only now that we're further in the book can we see where it was meant to fall into place. While they'd be easily understood in a book, a thrice a week comic can have gaps too big to make it clear and concise.

How we're supposed to feel about Loup's current actions as well as where his state of mind also seems to be subject to the same disconnect. In some mythology and works, nascent gods are treated as babies incredibly briefly before evolving into teenage/20 somethings forms, which they then stick to until they pupate into the old "wise man of the seas" style things an incomprehensible amount of time later.
I think what we're meant to see in Loup is the birth of a new god; he was an "infant" as that insane mess he was when Annie first visited, and then over the next 6 months coalesced into a more coherent form. Now he is meant to be a fledgling demigod with a 14-18 yo human equivalent mind, and his time as an "infant" is irrelevant to his current state of being.
In other words, we have a ~1 year old "entity" (insert birthday chapter here) with a teenage divine mind who has a perfect recreation of all of Coyote and Ysengrin's experience stored in his mind, but not part of his mind. Like, having a pair of seamless movies containing all of Coyote and Ysengrin's experiences.


This, of course, doesn't change that at the moment Loup is still a horrible and wrathful person who needs 5 gallons of humility poured into his half pint bottle.

That's Kat's symbol in general; it's not only inscribed on her workshop, we've seen it often around Kat. On most of the treatises, too.
It's not an existing alchemical symbol, Tom made it up for Kat.

The favourite theory I've read is that it's inspired by the shape of Diego's nose.

Ahh I see.
Diego's nose rendered as a circuit seems appropriate.

[Clertar]

I have to admit that this is a completely unexpected new romantic triangle.

[eee]

Aw, come on, Robot, tell her the full truth.

"Yes, there is something wrong with you. You are in love."

[137beth]

Aw, come on, Robot, tell her the full truth.

"Yes, there is something wrong with you. You are in love."

And falling in love is much worse than brainwashing!

[eee]

Oh. This is interesting. Keeping in mind the need for spoilers, how does everyone think Annie will do in Elden Ring? I suspect she won't think much of the gods, but will get wrapped up in the plot lines. And some of her reactions will be comedy.

Varré: You are Maidenless.
Annie: Could you define your terms?

[sihnfahl]

Apparently she has good reflexes; her time in the forest?

And, hah! Blood dex build. Who would have guessed?

And I love how the symbol is now the Elden Ring icon rather than Antimony.

[Kornaki]

I've been pretty confused how to reconcile loup going so deep he thinks he's a goose with how he's actually been acting, but maybe we'll get to see a bit more of that play out when he kills himself.

[eee]

Kat is not thinking clearly here. The people who have put in place the rules and restrictions she chafes at, are the very ones who'll be running things in the new place. Within a very short period of time she'd be up to her eyeballs in the same sort of redtape she despises, now.

[Murk]

What kind of red tape or limitations does Kat even encounter?

She gets unlimited materials, energy, a storage room, with no oversight whatsoever. She has been allowed to create life, tamper with time... If the Court knows they're clearly fine with it, and if they don't know then they're clueless enough not to matter.

[Squire Doodad]

What kind of red tape or limitations does Kat even encounter?

She gets unlimited materials, energy, a storage room, with no oversight whatsoever. She has been allowed to create life, tamper with time... If the Court knows they're clearly fine with it, and if they don't know then they're clueless enough not to matter.

I think there's the implication that, given what Carver went through, Kat has dramatically more oversight than she thinks, but it wouldn't take full effect until a scenario of Omega's knowledge comes into play.
Either way, the point stands - Kat could be talking about a hypothetical, but wherever the Court ends up should have the same red tape as Kat has now. Potentially (and more likely) significantly more, even.

[Vinyadan]

I am wondering if she refers to the fact that the Court itself has no red tape, and leaving with it would allow her to keep doing her research as an adult. That's how I read it. Outside the Court, she wouldn't have been as free.

[Squire Doodad]

Ahh, that's a good point. Though, it feels a bit odd in the context provided - "the regular rules and restrictions" are, uh... I guess...
Maybe she did an internship over the summer and was astonished by the amount of red tape stopping her from building a fission reactor in an aquarium's basement?

[hungrycrow]

I still don't understand what Kat and Renard are talking about. Has the Court not been super shady this whole time? Did they not turn somebody into a murder ghost to act as a magical barrier? Since when have they been limited by ethics?

[sihnfahl]

I still don't understand what Kat and Renard are talking about. Has the Court not been super shady this whole time? Did they not turn somebody into a murder ghost to act as a magical barrier? Since when have they been limited by ethics?

That's what I said on the board. Reynardine's response could have just been: Jeanne.

Edit: And I forgot. The 'sacrifice' the Court engineered to trap Reynardine all those years ago.

[Rodin]

Kat herself had a moment with this when she found out about the lab animals. Sure, Paz is protecting them now, but the entire chapter was a lesson on unscrupulous organizations requiring good people inside them to curb their excesses. Kat's one of the last people who should be having a flippant attitude about the Court and how it has treated Jeanne, the robots, the lab animals...even her best friend Annie.

[Squire Doodad]

Given all of this arguing about what Kat means, I'd wager it's one of those "gap just big enough to confuse readers" scenarios. The full breadth of it will likely be clearer by the end of the chapter, though it's a pretty minor point.
The best thing I can think of, and likely what Tom intends, is that Kat is talking about a hypothetical, what the prospect of a new Court is meant to represent regardless of what it actually will do. She doesn't want to leave, but the idea of a place she can do anything at is rather interesting to her so she is talking about it.

[sihnfahl]

The best thing I can think of, and likely what Tom intends, is that Kat is talking about a hypothetical, what the prospect of a new Court is meant to represent regardless of what it actually will do. She doesn't want to leave, but the idea of a place she can do anything at is rather interesting to her so she is talking about it.

The problem with it being a hypothetical is that it's based on the premise than an organization that has acted in severely callous ways since its inception would operate differently if it moved locations.

[137beth]

Yeah, the Court has shown no indication they can act in a benevolent manner.

[Gez]

Given all of this arguing about what Kat means, I'd wager it's one of those "gap just big enough to confuse readers" scenarios. The full breadth of it will likely be clearer by the end of the chapter, though it's a pretty minor point.

Yeah, I don't get why Kat would be like this.

She knows the Court is already unburdened by ethics. She found it first with the lab mice, then there was the Zimmy situation, she was especially shocked when she discovered the origin of the Annan Ghost, and last time it was about overriding the robots' sense of self to power a defense grid.

And it's not like her own work has been especially hampered by rules and regulations since she has her own lab where she does what she wants unsupervised.

I can only suppose that she has been reading Ayn Rand's work and is now a staunch libertarian, and that it's the beginning of her heel turn as a mad scientist supervillain. Calling it now, she will be the big bad of the last arc and the comic will end tragically with Annie being forced to kill her childhood friend.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Calling it now, she will be the big bad of the last arc and the comic will end tragically with Annie being forced to kill her childhood friend.

I doubt it very much. Kat may get a short swim in the deep end of the alignment pool, but I don't see it coming to that.

[Willie the Duck]

Yeah, I don't get why Kat would be like this.

Given today's comic, probably just to be the naïve audience surrogate who asks the questions that let Annie and Rey exposition.

[sihnfahl]

Given today's comic, probably just to be the naïve audience surrogate who asks the questions that let Annie and Rey exposition.

Given the Idiot Ball (conveniently forget all the Court's ethical and moral failings) for exposition? Whee!

[Squire Doodad]

Kat: Talks about hypothetical that is redundant to her situation
Rey: Provides in-depth, philosophical counterpoint that helps ground the topic and let Kat think things through
Annie: Talks about tangentially related topic that ties things back into the plot, sort of, not really

[137beth]

I feel like the exposition would work better if there was another character asking what Kat's asking.

[sihnfahl]

Whew, what a whiplash.

If they only knew...

[Kornaki]

Considering that Loup's inspiration for this field trip was Coyote turning into a dead goose and forgetting he was coyote in the first place, I would say loup actually is not taking this seriously.

[eee]

Don't go, Kat! The Court has shown little interest in the desires and welfare of those under its care. If the ones at the top have decided to flee to some Brave New World away from the Ether, they may just grab those they think can help them and drag them off without consent. Frankly, given they'll be splitting up families and going into unknown and probably extremely dangerous territory, I'd suspect the Court may not be interested in letting people decline. After all, it's for the good of humanity!

What kind of red tape or limitations does Kat even encounter?

She gets unlimited materials, energy, a storage room, with no oversight whatsoever. She has been allowed to create life, tamper with time... If the Court knows they're clearly fine with it, and if they don't know then they're clueless enough not to matter.

Anti-gravity comes to mind. And the Dolans have had it made clear to them, it doesn't matter if their Ether using computer does wonders, it's not REAL science and the Court doesn't approve. Kat is getting away with things only because the robots are supplying her with what she needs, and Juliet and Arthur have been covering for her. The Court administration has been shown to be extremely hidebound and repressive in its thinking; going somewhere new would almost certainly only increase that.