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  1. - Top - End - #601
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    I assume you mean Crusade instead of Excalibur? Crusade was the name of the show. Excalibur was the name of the ship.
    Oh that's right, thanks.

    Which pretty much shows how memorable I found that whole spinoff.

    Strangely, I found it was the unsuccessful pilot I found very memorable. I even remember the subtitle/what probably would have been the episode 1 title had it gone to series: To Live and Die by Starlight. I thought it did a pretty good job capturing the cool-factor that made the Rangers so compelling in the original series, but they somehow did a terrible job creating a hook with the mysterious new enemy they created for the series.
    Last edited by Xyril; 2020-03-12 at 04:32 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #602
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    I liked this episode personally, although the Agamemnon turning up so quickly does make you wonder where they were when a Shadow ship was blowing seven bells out of everything--you'd think Sol system would be a bit better defended than that, and it would have raised the stakes even more to see a battlecrab take down an Omega on its way to Jupiter.

    As for a B5 remake, I think the problem with that now, as it always has been, is that Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas in particular absolutely nailed their roles, and any remake would draw inevitable comparisons to them that would almost certainly be found wanting unless they hired superb actors--something that's tricky to do on a TV budget. Also, how far do you take it back to the source? After all, the original plan was for a TEN-year arc, with the five-year Babylon 5 to be followed by the five-year Babylon Prime (set on Babylon 4 after its time-jump into the future, with B5 having been destroyed). Personally I'd absolutely love to see how that story would have panned out, but it's unlikely the remake would be based on that.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    I found this posted on my FB feed, had to share with all you good people.

    Zathras:
    *turns to Sinclair* You are the One Who Was.

    *turns to Delenn* You are the One Who Is.

    *turns to Sheridan* You are the One Who Will Be.

    *turns to Garibaldi* You are the One Who Thinks He Can Do A Better Job Than The One.

    *turns to Londo* You are the One Who Thinks He's The One, But Isn't.

    *turns to G'kar* You are the One Who Would Probably Make A Pretty Good One.

    *turns to Lennier* You are the One Who Wants To Be With The One, But Knows The One Is Destined To Be With The One.

    *turns to Marcus* You are the One Who Wants To Be THE One *winks*, But Thinks She's Too Good For You.

    *turns to Ivanova* And you are the One That Scares Zathras.

    *turns to everyone else* Never, ever let her be the One!

    Ivanova *scowling*: Or what?

    Zathras: BOOM!

    Ivanova: Ah. Got it.

    Last edited by Varen_Tai; 2020-03-13 at 11:31 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #604
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    biggrin Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    S3E9: Point of No Return

    Vir presents his new reports to Londo, who once again tells him he needs to phrase things in a way that makes the Minbari look bad and decadent. "Say they pursue dubious pleasures. The dubious part is important. It doesn't mean anything, but it scares people." Vir complaints that he's supposed to provide the emperor with accurate intelligence, but is told that intelligence has nothing to do with politics.
    Londo gets a call from Centauri Prime that the wife of the previous emperor has accepted his invitation to visit him on the station.

    Sherridan gets a call from a general on Earth who informs him that the senate has been dissolved and the senators are either barricaded in the senate building or on the run from the police, but is interrupted by cannon fire outside in the capital city.

    Sherridan informs the crew that Earth, Mars, and Io are under martial law and they expect the order to arrive at Babylon 5 as well soon. Public communication with Earth is blocked. Ivanova tells everyone to stay on alert and be ready in case the station is getting attacked by government ships.
    Garibaldi tells Sherridan and Ivanova that some EarthForce ships are mutineering and might try to regroup at Babylon 5.

    The Nightwatch Obersturnbanführer tells Zack that there will be a meeting late that evening, and to bring his gun and spare ammunition.

    Garibaldi goes to the jail to let G'Kar out two weeks early because the guards are needed elsewhere. G'Kar is concerned about the current crisis, but tells Garibaldi he will try to find a way to help,

    Londo and Vir wait in the abandoned arrivals terminal to greet the old emperor's wife who is a seer. He needs to her to tell him if his own visions of his future are a possibility or his destiny, and is hoping deeply that there is still time to prevent it. She notices that they are the only people in sight and asks what's going on, but Londo assures her that everything is perfectly fine and the internal human crisis does not concern them.

    Sherridan eventually gets new orders from his boss on Earth. He is reminded that as soldiers it's not their place to have political opinions and simply follow their orders. He should see it as an opportunity and not a burden, and stick to the chain of command. Somehow I get a feeling that phrase will get heavily exploited later on. Sherridan and Garibaldi are also told that for the time being, all security will be handled exclusively by Nightwatch. Other security officers can join Nightwatch after a background check.

    Obersturmbanführer informs Zack and the rest of Nightwatch that the station is now effectively under their control. All other officers are called to the security headquarters to either take a Nighwatch batch or be disarmed.
    Garibaldi is of course furious and wants to put a stop to it. Sherridan tries to stop him and think of a proper plan, but he's having none of it.

    G'Kar comes back to his quarters and finds another Narn guarding his door. I think it's the guy who was the bodyguard of the Narn who was send by the Centauri to take G'Kar's position as representative of the Narn on the station. G'Kar is grateful for his loyalty and tells him to follow him inside.

    The seer wants to know why Londo really called her to the station and he tells her he needs to know if he should embrace his destiny or try to fight it, and if there is still time to make a choice. She tells him that there always is a choice and agrees that she will try to find out what he needs to know.

    Zack catches Garibaldi in a corridor and begs him to take a Nightwatch badge, but Garibaldi will never accept that. Instead he storms inside the security station and basically calls all the Nightwatch people traitors who are betraying both him and the captain. Nobody listens and Obersturmbanführer tells Garibaldi he no longer has authority and Zack to remove him from the restricted area, since he is now chief of security.

    G'Kar tells Katana-Narn that he had a revelation but finds himself unable to explain it. For the Narn to save themselves, they will have to stop fighting the rest of the universe, and he is certain that the humans will be critical for saving everyone.

    Londo and Vir are showing the seer around the public areas of the station when everyone goes running to watch the news in the bars. Londo tells her they should continue, but she heads over to one of the TVs herself. The news show the EarthForce mutineers getting in a battle with government ships at Io. Since the order for martial law just arrived, Nightwatch arrives to disperse the crowds, but the civilians start cheering when a government ship is destroyed and the mutineers escape to hyperspace, which leads to a riot. Vir catches a thrown bottle to the head as he's taking the seer to safety.

    Franklin thinks they should stay low on the station and hope for the mutiny to retake control of Earth, but Sherridan thinks they don't have time for that with Nightwatch now controlling everything. Franklin thinks there really is nothing they can do since they have their orders, and Sherridan remembers that his boss told him to see the situation as an opportunity, probably giving him a secret hint how he can exploit the situation to his advantage.

    G'Kar comes to the command center and tries to discretely tell Ivanova that he has a plan. Together with Garibaldi and Sherridan, they ambush Zack at his quarters when he returns from work.

    In Londo's quarters the seer is treating Vir's injury and has a short vision of Londo sitting on the emperor's throne as an old man.

    G'Kar is giving a speech to the Narn on the station, asking them for their help in a desperate situation.

    Zack goes to Obersturmbanführer to tell him a ship with armed Narn is on its way to replace Nightwatch, and that the captain wanted him to help. He gets praised for ratting them out.
    Nightwatch gets ready to ambush the Narn and Sherridan and company get their weapons as well. When all of Nightwatch is assembled, Zack makes a run for the door and traps them all in the docking bay. Sherridan calls them and tells them they are all arrested for mutiny, since their order to take over security comes from the Ministry for Peace, which is not part of the military. Since neither Sherridan nor Garibaldi told them to, they were acting without proper orders. They have called Earth to get confirmation of the order to suspend all non-Nightwatch security officers from their military superiors through the proper channels, but since there is a communications blackout that might take a while. Anyone of them who surrenders will be disarmed, suspended, and put under house arrest until the situation is sorted out.
    In the meanwhile, the remaining security officers will get help from Narn deputies.

    The seer tells Londo his fate. He has an important destiny and there are three opportunities at which he can turn it into something good instead of something bad. He already missed his opportunities to "save the eye that does not see" and "not kill the one who is already dead", but he still has a chance to "surrender himself to his greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him". If he fails, he will be doomed. Londo does not understand, but thanks her for her help.
    Before she leaves, she also wants him to know that he will become the emperor, no matter what else happens. And Vir will also become emperor. One of them after the other is dead. Which leaves them both feeling very suspicious.

    Sherridan thanks G'Kar for his help with security and offers to help him in any way he can in return. G'Kar tells him that he knows Sherridan is secretly fighting against evil and he wants to join. Sherridan says he first has to discuss this with the others.

    Ivanova comes to Sherridan and tells him that four of the five defecting cruisers have been destroyed, but their friend general Hague is still on the run. Sherridan has hopes that he will still make it, but Ivanova thinks once the mutineers are dealt with, the station will be the next target for the purge.

    --

    This is better. Suddenly things are moving very quickly and chaotically.

    The opening with the military shelling the senate building totally reminds me of the Russian coup in 1993. (The president dissolves parliament and the parliament impeaches the president. Parliament declared a new president who appointed his own defense minister. The police didn't know what to do, so the military arrived and also didn't know what to do. Eventually some special forces commanders decided to join the president and raided the parliament with support from ten tanks.) I don't really remember what was on the news in the early 90s. I only remember the fall of the Berlin Wall in 89 and the Yugoslaw Civil War. But this episode first aired two years later and I assumed most adult viewers would immediately have caught the similarities.

    I really like how new information only arrives in fragmented rumors and on TV, with nobody really knowing what is going on. It also makes sense that the station is being told to stay put and cut off from communications. The government has much more important things to do right now and as seen from Earth, Babylon 5 is just one minor outpost of many. But Sherridan and Ivanova both know that they are on the purge lists and someone will come take over from them once the major centers of the Earth Alliance are secured by government forces.

    Are there any established names for the sides in this coup that is now basically a civil war? With the senate gone, the president's supporters in the military can now be clearly labled as government forces. Which ones are the others? Loyalists and patriots would be confusing, because the government forces would claim the same. Are they the rebels now?
    Unfortunately, the mutiny was pretty much crushed at the end of the episode. That's a loss for the good guys, but it actually makes for a much better story. We don't really expect the president having full control in two or three episodes with all the heroes being in prison or dead, and that being the end of the story. Whichever way this will go, it will not be over quickly. Putting the good guys in a really weak starting position and then having them lose badly right away makes it much more interesting than being told that already a big fleet is assembling to set things right soon.

    G'Kar is fun. He was a great character before, but now that he's been through jail he already seems transformed into something much bigger. He's changing his approach to what he's asking of the other Narn, and from their position he's asking them quite a lot by behaving well for the support of aliens. But they also seem to be more loyal and talk back less than ever before. This might be inconsistent writing, but I think it's meant to show that he greatly expanded his charisma and they are now much more on board to follow him than before.

    And I spotted correctly that the seer is Majel Barett. Her voice and body language is totally different than Lawxana Troi on Star Trek. I really noticed it only from her face, which isn't easy since Lawxana always wear crazy wigs and the seer has her head completely covered. Also Lawxana always looks very tall, while the seer looks to be more short. Great work by the respective costume departments and of course she's showing really considerably acting skills with this.
    Last edited by Yora; 2020-03-13 at 02:19 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #605
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    S3E9: Point of No Return

    G'Kar comes to the command center and tries to discretely tell Ivanova that he has a plan. Together with Garibaldi and Sherridan, they ambush Zack at his quarters when he returns from work.
    I love Katsulas's line reading on "I've had an idea."

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    The seer tells Londo his fate. He has an important destiny and there are three opportunities at which he can turn it into something good instead of something bad. He already missed his opportunities to "save the eye that does not see" and "not kill the one who is already dead", but he still has a chance to "surrender himself to his greatest fear, knowing that it will destroy him". If he fails, he will be doomed. Londo does not understand, but thanks her for her help.
    I thought all three of those were opportunities still in the future? He had a total of five (two of which he's already botched), didn't he?

    Spoiler: Up to end of Season 5
    Show
    The common consensus, as far as I know, is usually that the "the eye that does not see" refers to either the eye G'Kar loses or Cartagia (the Eye jewel form Season 1 is a symbol of the Emperor, so "the eye that does not see" could be the Emperor himself). "Killing the man who is already dead" almost certainly refers to Morden (and possibly Londo's purge of Shadow influence generally). "Surrendering himself to his greatest fear" is often cited as "dying at the hands of G'Kar," but I've never found that terribly convincing. He's never been especially afraid of death generally or G'Kar particularly. I figure it has to do with the Drakh somehow. And of course, does "the fire at the end your journey" refer to the Centauri equivalent of Hell or something in his life (like being taken over by the Drakh)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    And I spotted correctly that the seer is Majel Barett. Her voice and body language is totally different than Lawxana Troi on Star Trek. I really noticed it only from her face, which isn't easy since Lawxana always wear crazy wigs and the seer has her head completely covered. Also Lawxana always looks very tall, while the seer looks to be more short. Great work by the respective costume departments and of course she's showing really considerably acting skills with this.
    Yeah, I always thought she did a great job here.
    Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2020-03-13 at 04:11 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #606
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    The seer is very clear that there are three forks in the road for him and that he missed the first two. "Saving the eye that does not see" is the Centauri imperial regalia in S1E13: Signs and Portents. He did get it back, but didn't save it himself but had it returned to him by the shadows. What "not kill the one who is already dead" refers to is apparently not clear, though. She says it already happened, but there seems to be no consent who that would have been.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    The seer is very clear that there are three forks in the road for him and that he missed the first two. "Saving the eye that does not see" is the Centauri imperial regalia in S1E13: Signs and Portents. He did get it back, but didn't save it himself but had it returned to him by the shadows. What "not kill the one who is already dead" refers to is apparently not clear, though. She says it already happened, but there seems to be no consent who that would have been.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Morella (emphasis mine)
    You still have three opportunities to avoid the fire that waits for you at the end of your journey. You have already wasted two others.
    If he still has three, then that means that those three are all in the future, no? Otherwise it would be false to say he "still has" them.

    Plus, "others" in "two others" implies that those two are separate from the three she just referenced (ie already wasted vs still ahead), doesn't it?
    Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2020-03-13 at 04:09 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #608
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Eh, okay. She talks about three and of two wasted, but never says anything about five. I did find that part a bit confusing when I was watching but didn't think it important enough to rewind.
    So have fun speculating about the eye that does not see and the one who is already dead. In spoilers.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Varen_Tai View Post
    I found this posted on my FB feed, had to share with all you good people.

    Zathras:
    *turns to Sinclair* You are the One Who Was.

    *turns to Delenn* You are the One Who Is.

    *turns to Sheridan* You are the One Who Will Be.

    *turns to Garibaldi* You are the One Who Thinks He Can Do A Better Job Than The One.

    *turns to Londo* You are the One Who Thinks He's The One, But Isn't.

    *turns to G'kar* You are the One Who Would Probably Make A Pretty Good One.

    *turns to Lennier* You are the One Who Wants To Be With The One, But Knows The One Is Destined To Be With The One.

    *turns to Marcus* You are the One Who Wants To Be THE One *winks*, But Thinks She's Too Good For You.

    *turns to Ivanova* And you are the One That Scares Zathras.

    *turns to everyone else* Never, ever let her be the One!

    Ivanova *scowling*: Or what?

    Zathras: BOOM!

    Ivanova: Ah. Got it.

    Amazingly fun, yeah. ^^


    As for the episode, this was the one episode that stuck in my mind as the turning point most.
    It irrevocably changes B5s role from a peacekeeping to a war-avoiding (and later warleading) one.

    Lost Innocence so to speak (even if aside from Vir noone was innocent to begin with ^^).
    A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”


    Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    The seer is very clear that there are three forks in the road for him and that he missed the first two. "Saving the eye that does not see" is the Centauri imperial regalia in S1E13: Signs and Portents. He did get it back, but didn't save it himself but had it returned to him by the shadows. What "not kill the one who is already dead" refers to is apparently not clear, though. She says it already happened, but there seems to be no consent who that would have been.
    Given that she said it had already passed, and she put them in specific order, IMO there is only one real candidate and that was that Londo needed to NOT kill Urza. Urza was 'already dead' in the sense that he intended to let Londo kill him to save his family, Londo needed to keep him alive, reject the Shadows, and eliminate Refa. Instead Londo cleared the way for Cartagia and the Shadows taking over the Centauri.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    As already stated, the three opportunities she mentions are all in the future, not the past--he's missed two chances, but she doesn't say what those were. I don't think Urza was likely one of those opportunities--if Londo hadn't killed him, all that would have happened is that Urza's family would have been disgraced, whereas instead they joined House Mollari.

    The "killing the one who is already dead" I always thought refers to:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Lord Refa. Londo has already poisoned him at the point he arranges for him to be killed. I don't see how *not* killing Morden would have helped Londo avoid disaster in any way, given he was already working against the Shadows when he did that.


    And yes, it's Majel Barrett playing the seeress--apparently she appeared on B5 to heal the rift between the B5 and Star Trek: DS9 production teams, with Bill Mumy appearing on DS9 in season 7 in return.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    I always thought the "one who is already dead" referred to

    Spoiler
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    Sheridan. Sheridan dies at Z'ha'dum, with Lorien artificially extending his life out of the dying embers. The prophecy then refers to when Sheridan is captured by Emperor Mollari in the future - instead of killing him he lets Sheridan go.
    This allows Sheridan to continue his important work for the Alliance and lets Vir make peace with them after Sheridan is freed. If Londo had killed Sheridan, word about the Drakh would not have gotten out and the Alliance would have nuked Centauri Prime even more than it already was.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Spoiler
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    Lord Refa. Londo has already poisoned him at the point he arranges for him to be killed. I don't see how *not* killing Morden would have helped Londo avoid disaster in any way, given he was already working against the Shadows when he did that.
    Spoiler
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    I think that's unlikely. He only gave Refa half a poison that would be complete harmless until he gives him the other half. As long as he doesn't do that, Refa will be perfectly fine. At least as this poison ploy is concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Spoiler
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    Sheridan. Sheridan dies at Z'ha'dum, with Lorien artificially extending his life out of the dying embers. The prophecy then refers to when Sheridan is captured by Emperor Mollari in the future - instead of killing him he lets Sheridan go.
    Spoiler
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    That's actually the best guess I've seen so far. Somehow I was under the assumption that he would only do the right thing at the very last possible moment. But this would mean he changes his fate at the fourth of five opportunities. Which means the last one might never actually come into play.

    I wonder what "saving the eye that does not see" means. It can't be G'Kar, because he now sees more than anyone else, except perhaps Delenn.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Spoiler: Which one is the one who is already dead?
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    Sheridan's an interesting choice. I hadn't really considered him because, like Yora, I assumed Londo only succeeds on the last of his chances. (It would be the most thing.)

    Still, given that that scene takes place so close to both his own and Sheridan's deaths, I have trouble figuring out what difference it would really make.

    As for how mercy for Morden would help, it makes sense if you think if him as the symbol of the Shadow influence. I think the idea is that, if Londo hadn't blown up Selini and otherwise taken such a brutal approach to the Shadows, he wouldn't have painted a huge target on the collective backs of the Centauri. When the Drakh were choosing their new base after the Shadows left, Centauri Prime might've been spared in favor of someplace else. Sucks for whoever lives in Someplace Else, but then the prophecy is about how Londo can avoid his own fire.

    Basically, I can't help but think of Morden's last line of dialogue: "You just made a mistake, Mollari! Even if my associates lose this war, they have allies! They'll make sure Centauri Prime pays the price for what you've done here today!"

    Now, granted, she apparently talks about a person, not a geographical feature. But I still think it refers to the fact that his purge was ultimately unnecessary. The Vorlons left not because they were satisfied with Londo's efforts but because they were called away to help deal with the events at Coriana 6. And the Shadows on Selini would have left with the rest, so killing them ended up having no benefit.


    Spoiler: Wait, which eye does not see?
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    G'kar has a line sometime after losing his eye about seeing better (ie increased understanding). So his old eye did not see what his post-eye-gouging self did. Now, unlike with the Morden stuff above, I have no idea how this might've helped, but it is the most literal eye that might need saving.

    Of course, the saving Cartagia interpretation would be in line with the logic of the sparing Morden interpretation of #2. Sucks for the Narn, because the Centauri won't have a rationale to withdraw from the Narn homeworld and might screw up the formation of the Interstellar Alliance, but it's a possibility.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    Spoiler: Which one is the one who is already dead?
    Show

    As for how mercy for Morden would help, it makes sense if you think if him as the symbol of the Shadow influence. I think the idea is that, if Londo hadn't blown up Selini and otherwise taken such a brutal approach to the Shadows, he wouldn't have painted a huge target on the collective backs of the Centauri. When the Drakh were choosing their new base after the Shadows left, Centauri Prime might've been spared in favor of someplace else. Sucks for whoever lives in Someplace Else, but then the prophecy is about how Londo can avoid his own fire.

    Basically, I can't help but think of Morden's last line of dialogue: "You just made a mistake, Mollari! Even if my associates lose this war, they have allies! They'll make sure Centauri Prime pays the price for what you've done here today!"
    Your theory about Morden aligns with one I just thought of, but before I read your comment.

    The key is that while we tend to interpret Londo's fate as being tightly tied to the fate of the galaxy, the seer's predictions are personal, so about him personally and his own goals. And it's clear from the characterization of Londo that while he had personal desires he also wanted the best for the Centauri Republic. So a fate that leaves him alive and well but the Republic destroyed would be a terrible fate for him.

    The other thing to note is that these are prophecies, so they don't have to be direct. They can be the outcomes that would simply necessarily follow from his actions.

    So, my theory on the last three:

    Spoiler
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    The Eye That Does Not See: That's G'Kar's eye. But since that was done by the order and whim of Cartagia, Londo would have either had to prevent him from rising to the office or had enough influence to talk him out of it. With that, he might have been able to talk him out of letting the Shadows establish a base there, which would have avoided the first attack by the Alliance (likely) as well as the Drakh influence.

    The Man Who Is Already Dead: Morden. The only reason Londo killed him -- or, at least, the main reason -- was to remove all Shadow influence from Centauri Prime. But if he had done nothing and let the Shadows stay, then they would have left anyway and the Drakh, as Grey Watcher noted, wouldn't have had any strong reason to set up on Centauri Prime. And without such a strong attack on the Shadows, the Drakh might not have aggressively tried to pursue the goals of the Shadows, and certainly wouldn't have been able to hide as well with such a strong power. So likely no Drakh and so no set of attacks.

    The Greatest Fear Knowing that It Will Destroy Him: Accepting the Keeper. Given that Londo's drinking is rather legendary, him getting a Keeper meant that he could discover that it could be put to sleep by drinking, which the Drakh didn't know (or they'd limit his alcohol consumption). This allowed him to mitigate some of the things the Drakh wanted him to do (see "The Long Night of Centauri Prime" trilogy for more details). It was also the only way he was going to become or remain Emperor once the Drakh came to Centauri Prime; he would have been killed otherwise. This, then, put him in a position to send Sheridan and Delenn back to the Alliance without killing them, at the cost of his life (at the hands of G'Kar). It also allowed him to put Vir in positions of influence, paving the way for his activities to overthrow the Drakh and to ultimately become Emperor. So while he loses his life, he ultimately saves Centauri Prime by accepting the Keeper and being the right person in the right place at the right time.
    Last edited by Daimbert; 2020-03-15 at 06:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    Your theory about Morden aligns with one I just thought of, but before I read your comment.

    The key is that while we tend to interpret Londo's fate as being tightly tied to the fate of the galaxy, the seer's predictions are personal, so about him personally and his own goals. And it's clear from the characterization of Londo that while he had personal desires he also wanted the best for the Centauri Republic. So a fate that leaves him alive and well but the Republic destroyed would be a terrible fate for him.

    The other thing to note is that these are prophecies, so they don't have to be direct. They can be the outcomes that would simply necessarily follow from his actions.

    So, my theory on the last three:

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    The Eye That Does Not See: That's G'Kar's eye. But since that was done by the order and whim of Cartagia, Londo would have either had to prevent him from rising to the office or had enough influence to talk him out of it. With that, he might have been able to talk him out of letting the Shadows establish a base there, which would have avoided the first attack by the Alliance (likely) as well as the Drakh influence.

    The Man Who Is Already Dead: Morden. The only reason Londo killed him -- or, at least, the main reason -- was to remove all Shadow influence from Centauri Prime. But if he had done nothing and let the Shadows stay, then they would have left anyway and the Drakh, as Grey Watcher noted, wouldn't have had any strong reason to set up on Centauri Prime. And without such a strong attack on the Shadows, the Drakh might not have aggressively tried to pursue the goals of the Shadows, and certainly wouldn't have been able to hide as well with such a strong power. So likely no Drakh and so no set of attacks.

    The Greatest Fear Knowing that It Will Destroy Him: Accepting the Keeper. Given that Londo's drinking is rather legendary, him getting a Keeper meant that he could discover that it could be put to sleep by drinking, which the Drakh didn't know (or they'd limit his alcohol consumption). This allowed him to mitigate some of the things the Drakh wanted him to do (see "The Long Night of Centauri Prime" trilogy for more details). It was also the only way he was going to become or remain Emperor once the Drakh came to Centauri Prime; he would have been killed otherwise. This, then, put him in a position to send Sheridan and Delenn back to the Alliance without killing them, at the cost of his life (at the hands of G'Kar). It also allowed him to put Vir in positions of influence, paving the way for his activities to overthrow the Drakh and to ultimately become Emperor. So while he loses his life, he ultimately saves Centauri Prime by accepting the Keeper and being the right person in the right place at the right time.
    While JMS would not confirm the theory I'm about to present, he IS the one who brought it up on Lurkers.

    Quote Originally Posted by jms
    Morella: "You must save the eye that does not see."

    Londo: "I...do not understand."

    I.

    Eye.

    We never actually saw how she spelled or meant this.

    Given Londo's background, one could almost make the case that the discussion was about him. Not saying that's it, but it's a possibility and a subtext.
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    Personally, this episode is hot on my mind whenever the topic of rebellion and "loyalty to the chain of command" is used as an anti-rebel argument by Clark Loyalists, especially by

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    Lochley when she defends her choice to have remained a loyalist.

    The goddamn government dissolved the Senate. Seized the news with commandos. Bombed civilian populations.

    If there hadnt been those who "did not respect the chain of command", Earth would still be under the jackboot of an Orwellian Regime who willy nelly bombs its own population, Lochley. So **** off with your piss poor sense of morality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    Personally, this episode is hot on my mind whenever the topic of rebellion and "loyalty to the chain of command" is used as an anti-rebel argument by Clark Loyalists, especially by

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    Lochley when she defends her choice to have remained a loyalist.

    The goddamn government dissolved the Senate. Seized the news with commandos. Bombed civilian populations.

    If there hadnt been those who "did not respect the chain of command", Earth would still be under the jackboot of an Orwellian Regime who willy nelly bombs its own population, Lochley. So **** off with your piss poor sense of morality.
    What it comes down to is that these people either supported the authoritarian position or were too cowardly to do anything about it. While I acknowledge that the "immoral order" prohibition--something that exists in the the U.S. military, and was pretty much explicitly stated to be mirrored in the EarthForce equivalent of the Uniform Code--is a bit vague in principle, letting pretty much all of Clarke's loyalists stay around is pretty much implicitly endorsing the "I was just following orders" defense.
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    And when you let these sort of people and their influence fester, it doesn't take long for a resurgence of their twisted worldview.

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    S3E10: Severed Dreams

    Londo is waiting in line to go through customs and is annoying the other passengers by ranting about the Narn working for security disrupting everything with their inefficiency. When he gets to to the top of the line, the Narn officer apologizes that his card reader doesn't seem to read Londo's ID correctly and politely asks him to step aside while everyone else goes through customs before he can get around to check his ID manually.

    The Rebel heavy cruiser Alexander (I am calling them Rebels now) is running from a government light cruiser trying to escape through hyperspace. But if they go to hyperspace they will have to abandon their fighter escort, and if they wait to recover the fighters first the pursuing ship will destroy them before they can make the jump. The commander is arguing with the captain that they have no choice but to fire back at the government ship. The captain gives the order and they destroy the light cruiser with a single hit from their main canon. The only place they can possibly go to to make repairs and resupply is Babylon 5 and the captain orders to set a course.
    (It's a nice scene dramatically, but completely breaks continuity. Babylon 5's fighters have followed other ships through jump gates many times and so far we have never seen any indication that a jump gate works in any way different from a ship's jump drive. Also, since they were only being pursued by a cruiser, the fighter escort did not actually to anything to keep the Alexander from getting hit.)

    Sherridan informs Ivanova and Garibaldi that the Alexander is coming in a few hours. Once the ship arrives they have to put the whole station on a communications blackout so nobody can send any messages to EarthForce. But he still wants to be able to watch the news so they have some clue of what is going on in the Earth Alliance.

    Delenn and Lennier secretly call Franklin to treat a heavily injured Minbari ranger who has critical information and they are afraid assassins might try to kill him if anyone learns he's on the station. G'Kar was eavesdropping, though, and tells them he knows which Narn guards can be completely trusted to get them through security and to medlab without talking.

    Sherridan and Ivanova hears on the news that the governor of Mars is refusing the order from the president to declare martial law. (Though ironically, martian law means exactly the same thing ) The Alexander comes out of hyperspace and Sherridan tells Garibaldi to cut off all communications. Sherridan informs the command center crew that he is sheltering a Rebel ship and will face the consequences for it. And if anyone has a problem with it they can end their shifts now and leave. Wich nobody takes.

    The ranger wakes up in Medlab and tells Delenn and Franklin that many of the minor species have been getting support from the Shadows who are edging them on to fight each other. The Grey Council of the Minbari knows about it, but has declared that it's not their business.

    Major Ryan, the captain of the Alexander, comes to the station and informs them that their leader general Hague has been killed in the fighting. Earth is now pretty much controlled by the military and the population mostly doesn't really care about it. It's not on the news because the stations know they will be shot down if they broadcast anything too critical. The hope is that the other colonies will be joining Mars in opposition and that will put enough pressure on the president to back down.
    They are interrupted by a call from the Alexander that they just got news EarthForce is bombarding cities on Mars.

    Delenn decides that she has to leave the station to talk with the Grey Council directly.

    The EarthForce ship Churchill comes out of hyperspace and Sherridan tells Ivanova that Ryan told them it would come and is on the rebel side. The captain of the Churchill calls and tells them she has to come over to the station to discuss things that she will not transmit over radio.

    The attack on Mars is on the news when the presenter is interrupted by a reporter barging in, announcing that Orion 7 and Proxima 3 have declared seccession from the Earth Alliance until the president is removed and democracy restored. He has to share this now because government troops are already preparing to assault the building and shut down the station.

    The captain of the Churchill tells Sherridan and Ryan that they intercepted a message that an attack force is already on the way to seize Babylon 5 and arrest the whole command staff. Ryan thinks they should leave with the two cruisers so EarthForce will leave the station alone, but the captain tells them the fleet was already send even before the Alexander arrived.
    Sherridan calls Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Franklin to vote on joining the Rebellion or surrendering because he doesn't want to take everyone into a war by himself. Ivanova and Garibaldi are of course for fighting and Franklin support them.

    Delenn arrives on the Grey Council ship and is told that the council will not see her. She's having none of it and goes to the council chamber anyway. She tells them that she told them the whole time things would turn out as they did now and that they now have no other choices but to get involved and go to war against the agents of the Shadows. If the warriors are too cowardly to fight, then this is the prophesied time where the council will be broken, and she calls on the priests and the workers to follow her and fight. And quite surprisingly they do and follow her out.

    Sherridan calls his parents on Earth and tells his father that he probably won't be able to get in contact with them again for quite some time and that they should not worry, but he can't really go into details on a public connection. His father tells him he knows exactly what he means and that he should do the right thing as he always does.
    He goes to the command center and makes a broadcast across the station that as governor of Babylon 5, he will follow the other colonies and declares the station independent from the Earth government. This time, a few officers do take the officer to drop out.
    Ivanova tells Sherridan that she wants to go out in one of the starfighters. If they send their pilots to attack human ships, one of them should be out there to lead them.

    The jumpgate opens and a group of two heavy and two light cruisers comes from hyperspace with heavy fighter escort. With the Alexander and the Churchill, this looks pretty even. Sherridan calls the lead ship and asks them to break off the attack, but gets no reply.
    The government fighters open fire and its full on battle. They send boarding crews to take control of the station and Garibaldi takes his security officers and the Narn to fight them off.
    The Churchill is getting shot to pieces and before it blows up the captain crashes it into one of the government ships. Ivanova's fighter is damaged and she has to eject. The station and the Alexander concentrate their fire on the remaining heavy cruiser and destroy it, putting them at an advantage against the two remaining ships. But two more heavy cruisers jump in from hyperspace to join the government fleet and calling the station to surrender.
    Only seconds after, Delenn arrives with four Minbari star destroyers cruisers and the government ships wisely decide to withdraw.

    After the battle, Ryan decides to take the Alexander and link up with some other rebel ships, which hopefully will make the station less of an attractive target for government forces trying to crush the rebellion. With the surviving fighters from the Churchill, they can get the fighter squadrons of the station and the Alexander back to full strength, since they won't be getting any replacement for the rest of the civil war.
    Sherridan decides that he doesn't want to wear his EarthForce uniform again until the president's dictatorship is overthrown.

    --



    Great episode.

    The action in the final third of the episode was pretty good. Even with the camera only showing ships quite close up and generally by themselves, I always find it very easy to keep track of the "geography" of the battlefield around the station. Not sure how well that works when taking only this battle in isolation, but the show always uses pretty much the same arrangement for all fighting that takes at Babylon 5. You have the station itself as the main reference point, with the planet Proxima 3 to its left and the jump gate being a considerable distance to the right. Capital ships can use their jump drives to arrive from any direction they want, but they almost always use the jump gate instead. It probably is more efficient, since we know that at least Narn cruisers can't jump to hyperspace for a few minutes after they came out. But more importantly, it really helps the audience with keeping track who is where.
    If I remember correctly, there is only a single shot of the two rebel ships sitting next to the station, with Proxima III behind them. That tells you enough to know where they are and in which direction they are facing and that two-second, almost static shot from long distance shouldn't have been that expensive to render. If you caught that, that rest of the battle is easy to follow. When the government reinforcements arrive, they also come through the jump gate, even though at that moment it would have made much more sense tactically to come out "behind" the station where there are no fighters and the Alexander can't give them supporting fire. But that would have made things more complex and harder to follow.

    I really like the pacing in this episode. Say about the filler episodes what you want, but so far the show has trained us to expect a slow burn. Last episode the president has shown his true colors and everyone is wait and see, the first rebel fleet is quickly reduced from five to just one ship. Sherridan uses trickery to quietly subvert orders without violence. All signs that this isn't going to be fixed in one quick uprising and we're in for the long game. Then this episode starts with getting the news that the leader of the rebellion has been killed and we need to find some way to hide the Alexander and not draw the government forces to the station. This is putting the breaks on the action even more. We also get news that the Mars government is refusing to play along and disobeys, waiting to see what happens, and there is a hope that the other colonies might join in. Quiet, steady. Let's wait and think this through before we do anything rash.
    And then the president flips the table and sends the bombers to bomb Mars into submission! The colonies secede and other ships are joining in on the rebellion, and Sherridan gets news that a fleet is on the way to occupy the station and arrest him. And very, very quickly this political crisis turns into full out civil war right outside the station.

    I am now pretty much certain that I first watched the show when season 3 started running in Germany and I was probably 12 at the time. This would have been only the tenth episode I've seen after completely missing out on the whole buildup from the first two season. I didn't really have much to compare it to, except for three or four seasons of Deep Space Nine, which is a completely different beast as tone and pathos are concerned. So I think I probably just took it in stride and enjoyed the explosions. Looking at it more informed and critically now, all I can say is "It ain't the Red Wedding, but it's getting close!" The buildup and play with tension right up to the ultimate escalation is fantastic. Too bad the internet wasn't a mainstream thing yet at the time. I'd love to go back and look up online discussions in fan forums after episodes like this.
    I think this episode is quite a game changer. S1E20 Babylon Squared and S1E22 Chrysalis were great with mystery and tension, but played out at a completely different scope. Season 2 has some cool fights between the Shadow and the Narn, but those really affect the audience regarding their impact on G'Kar. There is very little actually a stake. We know the Narn ships that don't really mean anything to us will get completely wiped out. What happens on the Narn homeworld remains completely hidden from us. Sherridan fighting the Shadow ship at Jupiter certainly was cool, but it was self-contained and since they got away without being identified it did not really have any further consequences. This episode is completely different. The Narn and Centauri war was between other people in far away places. But now it's full blown civil war right at home, with big cruisers getting blown up left and right.
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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Yeah, after the alst few episodes setting it up, this is where the faeces finally hit the rotating Air BLades.

    And its well done.
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    I just looked up another review which made me realize a very important detail in the scene where Delenn dissolves the Gray Council. Could be a continuity error, but I think it's deliberate.

    When the councillors walk out with Delenn, only three are shown to remain, and one of them grabs the hand of the last one that is leaving for a moment. When Delenn lost her seat, she was replaced by Neroon, and having four warriors but only two priests was a really big deal. Unless something changed about that in the year that has passed, this means even one of the warrior councillors walked out. Which probably was the last one that the other tried to stop.

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that short scene with the boarding crew getting repelled by Garibaldi. I see how it adds to the tension and drama and lets Garibaldi take a part in the fighting, but I also think it really wasn't necessary. And tactically it really doesn't make sense. Trying to take the command center and take the station out of the battle is a good idea, but sending a single boarding craft just has no chance of getting that job done. And sending it while the station has all its defenses up and is surrounded by starfighters is just suicidal. Maybe Sherridan didn't have the heart to just blow it up with the station's gun and hope that the soldiers could be confined and made to surrender, but I very much doubt the commander of the fleet was counting on that.
    Having that one boarding craft trying to take the station by itself just didn't make any sense. And unlike the opening fight with the Alexander firing on the pursuing ship, it didn't even add a lot to the story.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    S3E10: Severed Dreams

    Major Ryan, the captain of the Alexander, comes to the station and informs them that their leader general Hague has been killed in the fighting....
    This leads to one of the best outtakes on the blooper reel...

    Quote Originally Posted by Actor Bruce McGill
    "General Hague... is doing Deep Space 9. His agent double-booked him and there was nothing to be done. So you'll have to make due with me, sir".
    Robert Foxworth, who played General Hague in espidodes "Points of Departure" and "All Alone in the Night" was also Admiral Leyton on DS-9 episodes Homefront and Paradise Lost. They were filming at the same time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    S3E10: Severed Dreams

    Sherridan fighting the Shadow ship at Jupiter certainly was cool, but it was self-contained and since they got away without being identified it did not really have any further consequences.
    I always thought that "OMG! Aliens blew up our base on Io!" was the excuse Clark was looking for to throw the proverbial switch. If you'll forgive the Godwin's Law violation, it's his burning of the Reichstag. So my impression was that, in stopping the insane Shadow vessel, Sheridan ended up accelerating Clark's timetable. Not that allowing the thing to go rampaging around or letting EA learn its secrets was acceptable either, but it's still consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I just looked up another review which made me realize a very important detail in the scene where Delenn dissolves the Gray Council. Could be a continuity error, but I think it's deliberate.

    When the councillors walk out with Delenn, only three are shown to remain, and one of them grabs the hand of the last one that is leaving for a moment. When Delenn lost her seat, she was replaced by Neroon, and having four warriors but only two priests was a really big deal. Unless something changed about that in the year that has passed, this means even one of the warrior councillors walked out. Which probably was the last one that the other tried to stop.
    I always assumed the fourth warrior council member was off camera. The council should be 4 warriors, 3 workers, and 2 priests. I just watched the clip on YouTube, and when Delenn leaves the council chamber, five people follow her, so it checks out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Another thing I forgot to mention is that short scene with the boarding crew getting repelled by Garibaldi. I see how it adds to the tension and drama and lets Garibaldi take a part in the fighting, but I also think it really wasn't necessary. And tactically it really doesn't make sense. Trying to take the command center and take the station out of the battle is a good idea, but sending a single boarding craft just has no chance of getting that job done. And sending it while the station has all its defenses up and is surrounded by starfighters is just suicidal. Maybe Sherridan didn't have the heart to just blow it up with the station's gun and hope that the soldiers could be confined and made to surrender, but I very much doubt the commander of the fleet was counting on that.
    Having that one boarding craft trying to take the station by itself just didn't make any sense. And unlike the opening fight with the Alexander firing on the pursuing ship, it didn't even add a lot to the story.
    I'm presuming that heavy cruisers aren't set up for troop transport and don't have a lot of boarding-type ships. Now, why they didn't send troop transports if they thought they'd have to board the station, who knows?

    Also, speaking of the narrative purpose of that scene (ie giving Garibaldi something to do), I think it's also an attempt to heighten tension because you might think, for just a moment, that this is where Garibaldi's "go down fighting" flash-forward from "Babylon Squared" pays off.
    Last edited by Grey Watcher; 2020-03-15 at 04:50 PM.

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    This episode has one of my favorite lines in the whole show, from Delenn: "Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else!"

    Side note, that kind of makes me wonder how that would have been written if Sinclair's actor hadn't had to quit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    Also, speaking of the narrative purpose of that scene (ie giving Garibaldi something to do), I think it's also an attempt to heighten tension because you might think, for just a moment, that this is where Garibaldi's "go down fighting" flash-forward from "Babylon Squared" pays off.
    Interesting trivia:
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    When you see Garibaldi in a cast next episode, it is because Jerry Doyle broke his arm during that fight scene.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Having that one boarding craft trying to take the station by itself just didn't make any sense. And unlike the opening fight with the Alexander firing on the pursuing ship, it didn't even add a lot to the story.
    Well, it gave the Narn an opportunity to get skin in the game in a meaningful way. They have few warships left to commit to any sort of fight--and I would guess that integrating Narn cruisers into the fight might have added to the cost of the CGI for this battle. They do, however, have people. Using exposition to tell us that G'Kar provided warm bodies to make up for B5's coming personnel shortfall and then putting masks and makeup on the security officer extras would justify G'kar's addition to the conspiracy of light. However, it's much more powerful actually seeing the Narn give their lives for the cause literally within hours after joining. Remember, despite his weird-friendly relationship with Garibaldi spanning the series, G'kar--and the Narn in general--had a sometimes adversarial relationship with the station command staff and Earth in general.

    I think that this scene was really necessary to convince the audience that Sheridan would take G'kar into their confidence so quickly and so completely, particularly because the Narn offer relatively little in terms of strategic assets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyril View Post
    Well, it gave the Narn an opportunity to get skin in the game in a meaningful way. They have few warships left to commit to any sort of fight--and I would guess that integrating Narn cruisers into the fight might have added to the cost of the CGI for this battle. They do, however, have people. Using exposition to tell us that G'Kar provided warm bodies to make up for B5's coming personnel shortfall and then putting masks and makeup on the security officer extras would justify G'kar's addition to the conspiracy of light. However, it's much more powerful actually seeing the Narn give their lives for the cause literally within hours after joining. Remember, despite his weird-friendly relationship with Garibaldi spanning the series, G'kar--and the Narn in general--had a sometimes adversarial relationship with the station command staff and Earth in general.

    I think that this scene was really necessary to convince the audience that Sheridan would take G'kar into their confidence so quickly and so completely, particularly because the Narn offer relatively little in terms of strategic assets.
    Something that always bothered me with this scene, but was apparently deliberate, is how much of a slaughter the boarding action becomes. The Narns just run headlong into the Earthforce plasma fire, even though the human B5 security try to hold defensive positions. According to a B5 episode synopsis I read somewhere, that was actually deliberate, since it illustrates that the Narns haven't been trained for this. They're not really even cops, just citizen volunteers with guns.

    The aftermath of that scene has always been a very powerful moment for me too. It puts a (mostly) human face on the carnage, and the lighting and the angle makes it painfully clear how similar all the corpses and dying people are, regardless of allegiance.

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    Ah yes. This episode was absolutely fantastic from beginning to end. You only list two "heavy cruisers" in your review, Yora, but there were definitely more than that--there's the one the Churchill rammed, the one the Alexander fired at (and presumably destroyed), and the Roanoke, which was destroyed by fire from B5 itself. The fleet led by Captain Drake explicitly arrived when *all* the opposition had been destroyed, there were no enemy ships left at that point, light or heavy. (It's also notable that in the wide shot of B5 we see when the enemy fleet first arrives there are two ships next to the station, as you'd expect, but one is missing its rotating section!).

    Three bits of trivia I remember about this episode from the DVD commentary:
    Major Ryan is obviously played by Bruce McGill, but that wasn't the original intention--JMS wanted Everett McGill, but didn't know his first name. When he met Bruce he decided to give him the role anyway.

    The scene where Sheridan is standing on the command deck and an explosion goes off next to him went wrong--the explosion was too powerful and a piece of shrapnel cut Boxleitner's forehead. When you see him raise his hand to the cut and then deliver his next line that was actually real surprise at a real wound, which they left in because it added verisimilitude.

    You can see Mira Furlan give an odd sort of half-smile when she breaks the staff at the Grey Council. That's because she'd had to make several attempts to do that--the staff had been deliberately weakened in the middle to make it easier to break, but apparently not weakened enough!

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    You can see Mira Furlan give an odd sort of half-smile when she breaks the staff at the Grey Council. That's because she'd had to make several attempts to do that--the staff had been deliberately weakened in the middle to make it easier to break, but apparently not weakened enough!
    I also seem to recall that the speech is one long tracking shot which Mira Furlan nailed in one take, making the failure the break the staff extra frustrating. Finally getting the thing to snap must have been satisfying as hell.

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    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey Watcher View Post
    I always assumed the fourth warrior council member was off camera. The council should be 4 warriors, 3 workers, and 2 priests. I just watched the clip on YouTube, and when Delenn leaves the council chamber, five people follow her, so it checks out.
    I checked it again and it's so weird. One scene were exact numbers are really meaningful, and their count is off by one. It's really strange that they would have been sloppy with something like this.
    The only reason I can think of is that they thought the audience might have forgotten that there are four warriors on the council now, so they showed only three. But not trusting the audience to remember things doesn't sound like this show.

    Quote Originally Posted by NRSASD View Post
    Something that always bothered me with this scene, but was apparently deliberate, is how much of a slaughter the boarding action becomes. The Narns just run headlong into the Earthforce plasma fire, even though the human B5 security try to hold defensive positions. According to a B5 episode synopsis I read somewhere, that was actually deliberate, since it illustrates that the Narns haven't been trained for this. They're not really even cops, just citizen volunteers with guns.
    It's movie and TV combat. More than nine times out of ten, you have people suicidally running into gunfire and spears for no conceivable reason because the directors want to show people getting killed dramatically in large numbers.
    This exact thing is the whole reason I ever got interested in tactics in the first place. I was always wondering how anyone would ever be willing to fight in the first line when death in the first three seconds was guaranteed. Turns out actual combat is nothing like that. Real soldiers take measures to protect themselves, like taking cover or using shields.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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