New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 5 of 34 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141530 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 995
  1. - Top - End - #121
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    These social issues always seem very by the numbers and terribly forced, making them cringy to watch.
    It very hard to do a social issue show in American TV. You have to be very careful to not offend anyone. There are a lot of people watching, waiting to be offended. Some times they might just cut out a part or two of the epsiode when it's broadcast, but worst of all is that they might not show it at all.

    And no matter what, like half the audience is on the shows/writer(s)/''good side".....and the other half is not. So, keeping in mind that half your audience will see the main characters of the show as Bad Guys.....you want to be careful.

    And this is just the start of Earth's anti-alien propaganda.


    Note this episode has another little bit about Coffee being ''so expensive" on B5. Seems like the sort of thing a clever merchant with a ship would take advantage of and make some money.

    Garabaldi also mentions the orchard...that massive middle of B5 full of trees, lakes, fountains and buildings. That we just about never see.

  2. - Top - End - #122
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    I really found funny the "we will kill the Minbari, Centauri, Narn and Vorlon Ambassadors"

    My reply would be: "ok start with Vorlon"
    Keep in mind this is EARLY in the first season, and we're still fresh off the pilot where Kosh was almost killed and information about the Vorlons in general among common people basically non-existant. Obviously they wouldn't be able to just knife him in the hallway, but it's not unreasonable for them to think they could kill him with a bomb or something similar.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  3. - Top - End - #123
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid Tony View Post
    Note this episode has another little bit about Coffee being ''so expensive" on B5. Seems like the sort of thing a clever merchant with a ship would take advantage of and make some money.
    Some merchants did do exactly that. Otherwise coffee would be outright unavailable, not just expensive. It's expensive because a big part of the price goes to paying the costs of running a ship to transport it. To bring the cost down, you would need a way to remove interstellar transportation from the supply chain, which means you need a facility to grow, harvest, and process the stuff locally on station, and that's a big startup cost that's much less flexible than a ship.

    I'm fairly sure that all "naturally grown" food products are expensive on B5, and the main diet of the population is things they can synthesize directly from local materials.
    Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.

    Avatar by Ceika.

    Archives:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Saberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
    Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
    Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
    Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)

  4. - Top - End - #124
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Fyraltari's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    France
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
    Some merchants did do exactly that. Otherwise coffee would be outright unavailable, not just expensive. It's expensive because a big part of the price goes to paying the costs of running a ship to transport it. To bring the cost down, you would need a way to remove interstellar transportation from the supply chain, which means you need a facility to grow, harvest, and process the stuff locally on station, and that's a big startup cost that's much less flexible than a ship.

    I'm fairly sure that all "naturally grown" food products are expensive on B5, and the main diet of the population is things they can synthesize directly from local materials.
    Apparently steaks are expensive as well so that seems to be it.
    Which makes sense, plant life on the station must be chosen by prioritizing the most efficient oxygen producers.
    Forum Wisdom

    Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.

  5. - Top - End - #125
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Apparently steaks are expensive as well so that seems to be it.
    Which makes sense, plant life on the station must be chosen by prioritizing the most efficient oxygen producers.
    It does depend on what the plant is. Coffee is considered a luxury item, and so isn't grown on the station apart from a few illicit plants that Takashima had. Orange trees are considered an important crop, so fresh orange juice is readily available. Best way to combat scurvy, I assume.

    Babylon 5 inhabits a sort of middle ground between planetary life and starship life. They can't get the good stuff that planets have without paying through the nose for it, and this is true of alien races as well. But they still have access to some fresh food that they grow themselves and luxury items are available if you have the cash. Starships are stuck with preserved food in the simplest forms possible - meal bars, MREs, etc.

  6. - Top - End - #126
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
    LibraryOgre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    IIRC, there is a minor plot point in a future season where someone has been growing coffee in the station horticultural areas, which is unauthorized.
    The Cranky Gamer
    *It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
    *Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
    *The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
    Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
    There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.

  7. - Top - End - #127
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    smile Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    S1E8: And the Sky full of Stars

    Two more shifty looking humans arrive on the station, walking around and looking at each other very suspiciously. They meet in one guy's quarters to make plans to ambush Sinclair.

    Two other human men beat up a security guard who is owing their boss money. He gets called to Sinclair and Garibaldi who have caught notice of his breach of gambling regulations for security personell but tells them he never exceeded the limits for gambling debts. Sinclair still takes him off duty while an internal investigation is going on. He still seems to have access to restricted areas though, and looks like he's sneaking somewhere he's not supposed to be.

    Franklin takes a full physical scan of Delenn so he has some data on what readings are normal for a healthy Minbari. Their conversation turns to him telling her that at the end of the Human-Minbari war, the military wanted all data and notes human doctors had on Minbari so they could look into researching bioweapons, but he destroyed his own records instead of handing them over. Delenn is honest enough to admit that she doesn't want to tell him how she would have approached that decision. (Foreshadowing!)

    The security officer delivers a stolen energy source two the two secret agent guys in turn for money to pay off his debts.

    Sinclair has dreams about space battles against the Minbari. He wakes up and goes to the kitchen, and notices that his computers are all dead. He tries to call maintenance first, and then tries to call the command center and security but can't reach anyone. He goes outside his quarters and can't find any working computers anywhere, or really anyone else on the station. After some tries, the computer in the command center turns on and tells him that nothing is out of order. One of the secret agent guys appears and tells him they are in his mind. They want to search his memories to find out what he gave to the Minbari to make them break off the invasion of Earth when he was captured and claimed to have been unconscious.

    Garibaldi reads newspapers that say something about PsiCorps meddling with the elections. Delenn comes to his office to tell him she can't find Sinclair. He goes to Sinclair's quarters and only finds his communicator next to his bed, indicating he never got ready to go to work.

    The agent makes a memory appear of one of the pilots in Sinclair's squadron who got killed, accusing him of betraying Earth. But Sinclair is not easily distracted by this and punches the agent, which reveals that they both can cause each other pain inside his mind. The agent leaves to take a break and tells his partner they need to use more extreme methods to find the memories they look for.

    Garibaldi has all of security searching for Sinclair and one of his assistants tells him they even called back the suspended officers. He checked the bank account of the officer under investigation and there did not seem to be any debt. Garibaldi knows that his credit was maxed out the day before. He tells his assistant to bring the officer in for questioning immediately.

    Things get more surreal in Sinclair's mind and the agent uses more force to dig into his memories. Sinclair finds himself in an empty space, surrounded by people in gray robes.

    The security guard goes into the quarters of the two agents to tell them that security is on to him and they have to help him escape from the station. He discovers Sinclair in the next room and the agents shot him.

    The agent tells Sinclair he thinks the Minbari realized how heavily Earth was defended and decided to change their plan to turn captured humans into agents to weaken the humans from inside. He keeps digging through the memories of how Siclaire's squadron was wiped out and he tried to ram one of the cruisers with his damaged fighter. But they use a beam to disable his fighter and pull him in. This time the memory continues with him being taken prisoner and to the people in the robes. He pulls down the hood of one of them, which makes him wake up, break free, and knock out the second agent. He takes his gun and stumbles through the corridors to find and kill the Minbari.

    The agent wakes up and grabs another gun to follow Sinclair. He catches up and tries to shot him, but security can kill him first. Sinclair mistakes the security officers for Minbari and starts shooting at them. Delenn arrives to talk Sinclair down and he remembers her from his imprisonment on the Minbari ship before he passes out.

    The other agent gets taken into custody, but when Sinclair broke out of the machine that connected their minds it caused him severe brain damage and he doesn't seem to remember anything. But Garibaldi thinks he might have been send by some human intelligence agency.

    Sinclair has another conversation with Delenn, who asks him if the experience made him recover any lost memories, but he claims he didn't. She then talks with another Minbari in the gray robes who tells her if Sinclair remembers anything, he must be killed.

    --

    Okay, it keeps getting steadily better. Still not quite good in my opinion as someone who knows the answers to all the mysteries, but I think watching it the first time this should actually be quite exciting. There were plenty of hints before, but now things are getting much more concrete. The Mimbari did something pretty significant with Sinclair when they captured him and called off the destruction of Earth. And Delenn not only knows what happened but is actually deeply involved in the whole strange conspiracy. And it's a very big deal for both the humans and Minbari.

    I think it's a bit weird that the two agents are using a mind reading machine in a setting that already has well established telepaths. Telepaths who we know to be a very shady and secretive government organisation. This makes these two guys feel rather redundant.

    I think this is the first time that Minbari fighters and cruisers were shown. But the battle scenes are not very impressive and don't show off what complete beasts these actually are. Not sure if they messed up the perspective, but the cruisers look actually really small. But hey, we're going to see a lot more of them later. I think the cruisers are probably one of my favorite sci-fi ships.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  8. - Top - End - #128
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I think it's a bit weird that the two agents are using a mind reading machine in a setting that already has well established telepaths. Telepaths who we know to be a very shady and secretive government organisation. This makes these two guys feel rather redundant.
    There are two issues with any non-Psi Corps agency using telepaths:

    1) No one from that agency will get to see what happened, so they only have the telepath's word for what they saw.

    2) Psi Corps has its own agenda that may not be in line with that of the agency.

    So unless they kill the telepath afterwards, they are effectively giving this information to Psi Corps, and can't be certain that the telepath is telling them what really happened if they don't think telling them the truth is in the best interests of the Corps. This group using a method that they completely control makes sense here, and the technology also makes sense for races that have fewer, less powerful, or no telepaths (like the Narn).
    BSG PBF record on BGG: 16 - 17.

    "For a nice guy, you're kind of a jerk" - Ayane, P4: The Animation

    "Stop saving the world and get a hobby" - Seto Kaiba

  9. - Top - End - #129
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Narrative-wise though, I do think it's a little odd to not just use Psi Corp agents here instead of creating mind reading machinery for non telepaths to use? Admittedly I know nothing about B5 except what I read in this thread, maybe Psi Corps' official mandate would put him out of their jurisdiction? Though I'd expect the Corps to try and suppress such tech if it existed to protect its monopoly in Earth Alliance territory over such things, as referenced by the renting of B5's telepath earlier.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2020-01-06 at 03:02 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #130
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Juristiction is very hazy in this episode anyway. They can't even proof that those guys were government agents at all. PsiCorp is still quite new at this point of the show but it has already been made more than clear that they are super shifty. Garibaldi's newspaper even has a headline about PsiCorp meddling in politics at the very highest levels.

    I think this episode could quite easily have been written with two undercover PsiCorp agents instead. Someone would have had to come save Sinclair since he could not just overpower a P12 with his own mind. But I think it would have been better worldbuilding consistency than introducing a mind-reading device, which to my knowledge never gets mentioned again after this one instance.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  11. - Top - End - #131
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2013

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Juristiction is very hazy in this episode anyway. They can't even proof that those guys were government agents at all. PsiCorp is still quite new at this point of the show but it has already been made more than clear that they are super shifty. Garibaldi's newspaper even has a headline about PsiCorp meddling in politics at the very highest levels.

    I think this episode could quite easily have been written with two undercover PsiCorp agents instead. Someone would have had to come save Sinclair since he could not just overpower a P12 with his own mind. But I think it would have been better worldbuilding consistency than introducing a mind-reading device, which to my knowledge never gets mentioned again after this one instance.
    Needing Sinclair to have his own agency is the sticking point, I think. Sinclair wouldn't have been able to fight back effectively against a telepath inside his mind, and a telepath (especially a PsiCorp agent) would be much more experienced and not make the rookie mistakes these two do.

    You would be more likely to get a helpless Sinclair in modern TV, but in the 90s? Nah.

    Unfortunately, I was spoiled on this episode going in so I didn't get the full impact. My family was a few years late in watching Babylon 5, and In the Beginning came out while we were still early into season 1. Rather than have the movie take up space on a VHS tape while we watched 4 seasons worth, we watched it immediately. I think we expected it to be a non-canon TV movie that wouldn't spoil us on the rest of the show. Plus, the "In the Beginning" bit may have made us think it was a prequel that wouldn't contain spoilers.

    Whatever our reasoning, Season 1 was spoiled for us because we had seen all the information that gets doled out slowly over the season. We also accidentally taped an episode from season 5, and the opening credits from that season contain MASSIVE spoilers from the previous seasons. Fortunately we were on season 4 by that point, but we still had a couple plot points spoiled for us.

  12. - Top - End - #132
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I think it's a bit weird that the two agents are using a mind reading machine in a setting that already has well established telepaths. Telepaths who we know to be a very shady and secretive government organisation. This makes these two guys feel rather redundant.
    I think the two guys are from some Other shady group. Maybe the government...maybe a mega corp or maybe someone else. Though someone who does not have access to PsiCore.

    One thing B5 does GREAT is the shadowy government stuff. The two guys were really plain nobodies, made to look just like everyday folk. They BUILD what they need, so they don't carry around suspicious things. And maybe they are just dark mercenaries...maybe they are part of a group...maybe THEY don't even know. Maybe no one knows....

    It is possible Sinclar has been ''attacked" several times in the last ten years by people looking for that information. Maybe they did it more subtitle or wiped his memory?

    I'd guess the Minbari put ''level 12 blocks" in Sinclar's mind...maybe with a trigger to kill him if they are touched? OR just did a ''level 12 hide" that no human telepath could detect.

    They say the device is a VR simulator...like a game...not a Mind Probe. It was just to see the memories. The drugs did all the rest.

  13. - Top - End - #133
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Okay, it keeps getting steadily better. Still not quite good in my opinion as someone who knows the answers to all the mysteries, but I think watching it the first time this should actually be quite exciting
    Can confirm. As a first time watcher, this is the first episode that actually gripped me and made me interested in what's coming next instead of just munching popcorn and enjoying the ride.

    I've only watched two episodes past this so far (combination of being busy and wanting you to catch up so I can watch along), but yeah. I loved this episode.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  14. - Top - End - #134
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Juristiction is very hazy in this episode anyway. They can't even proof that those guys were government agents at all. PsiCorp is still quite new at this point of the show but it has already been made more than clear that they are super shifty. Garibaldi's newspaper even has a headline about PsiCorp meddling in politics at the very highest levels.

    I think this episode could quite easily have been written with two undercover PsiCorp agents instead. Someone would have had to come save Sinclair since he could not just overpower a P12 with his own mind. But I think it would have been better worldbuilding consistency than introducing a mind-reading device, which to my knowledge never gets mentioned again after this one instance.
    Psi Corps wouldn't have worked at all.

    Plausible deniability is the name of the game here with Sinclair.

    As we've seen, scanning somebody for anything other than surface information produces feedback and the individual UNAMBIGUOUSLY KNOWS that they've been telepathically scanned. And since Psi Corps has extremely tight control over even weak human telepaths, that leaves them in a position where Sinclair would make a full report to Earth that a telepath scanned his mind and may have gotten access to classified military information. They would demand answers from Psi Corps which at the very least would have them demand a huge investigation and manhunt for the telepath in question. At a minimum it demonstrates that Psi Corps is letting multiple high-level telepaths run around compromising military operations and secrets and could lead to extreme political fallout for them.

    Here, they have 2 nondescript guys with no names and no identities using tech that can't be identified or traced, so they can easily be pinned on any one of dozens of organizations or groups, or even potentially be pinned on foreign governments. Telepaths are a Psi Corps problem, period.

    The operatives also initially seem to be operating under the assumption that he was just lying about not remembering what happened on the Minbari ship, and if that had been the case they would have gotten the truth a LOT faster rather than trying to breakdown the memory block put in place by the Minbari. The initial status of Sinclair not understanding he wasn't awake and on the station seems to suggest that if they had gotten the information quickly they may have been able to deposit him back in his quarters and he wakes up in the morning thinking it was just a bad dream.

    In this case I think the agents works a lot cleaner than Psi Corps would have. It gives a LOT of plausible deniability, completely keeps Psi Corps out of it.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  15. - Top - End - #135
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    As we've seen, scanning somebody for anything other than surface information produces feedback and the individual UNAMBIGUOUSLY KNOWS that they've been telepathically scanned. And since Psi Corps has extremely tight control over even weak human telepaths, that leaves them in a position where Sinclair would make a full report to Earth that a telepath scanned his mind and may have gotten access to classified military information. They would demand answers from Psi Corps which at the very least would have them demand a huge investigation and manhunt for the telepath in question. At a minimum it demonstrates that Psi Corps is letting multiple high-level telepaths run around compromising military operations and secrets and could lead to extreme political fallout for them.
    From a Doylist perspective - had the show established things like the feedback of scanning or PsiCorp's monopoly on even the weakest human telepaths yet? I'm assuming the episode reviews only cover important stuff and not every line of dialogue, so the answer can very easily be 'yes'.

  16. - Top - End - #136
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    From a Doylist perspective - had the show established things like the feedback of scanning or PsiCorp's monopoly on even the weakest human telepaths yet? I'm assuming the episode reviews only cover important stuff and not every line of dialogue, so the answer can very easily be 'yes'.
    That I can recall we saw on screen Talia get scanned by the Psi Cops just 2 episodes previously and it produced extreme discomfort. Ivanova had also (and will in the future), explicitly refuse to submit to a scan (for reasons revealed much later), but is not particularly concerned about being in Talia's presence or in the presence of Psi Cops. The clear message is that it takes conscious effort on the part of a telepath to scan for non-surface thoughts, and the user is completely aware of what is happening. I don't recall if they said it in that particular episode, but if I recall correctly it is actually against the law for a telepath to scan somebody without legal authorization from a court or a military authority.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  17. - Top - End - #137
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    That I can recall we saw on screen Talia get scanned by the Psi Cops just 2 episodes previously and it produced extreme discomfort. Ivanova had also (and will in the future), explicitly refuse to submit to a scan (for reasons revealed much later), but is not particularly concerned about being in Talia's presence or in the presence of Psi Cops. The clear message is that it takes conscious effort on the part of a telepath to scan for non-surface thoughts, and the user is completely aware of what is happening. I don't recall if they said it in that particular episode, but if I recall correctly it is actually against the law for a telepath to scan somebody without legal authorization from a court or a military authority.
    Wasn't talia's willingness to scan surface thoughts a point back in Born to the Purple?

  18. - Top - End - #138
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    As I recall, the bit where the brain-damaged agent says "Be seeing you" to Sinclair at the end is a nod to the 60s TV series "The Prisoner".

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I think this is the first time that Minbari fighters and cruisers were shown. But the battle scenes are not very impressive and don't show off what complete beasts these actually are. Not sure if they messed up the perspective, but the cruisers look actually really small. But hey, we're going to see a lot more of them later. I think the cruisers are probably one of my favorite sci-fi ships.
    Believe it or not, they hadn't actually locked down how big *anything* in the series was at this point. You can tell that from Sinclair's intro to each episode, where he talks about B5 being "two point five million tonnes of spinning metal". Given that the station is later canonically stated to be 5 miles long, that's way too small a mass to make any sense--it would mean the hull would be a few inches thick at most. That being the case, there's no consistency in how big any of the ships look. I seem to recall (second series spoiler):

    Spoiler
    Show

    In the computer display when the lone Minbari ship is attempting to get B5 to attack it to restart the war, the cruiser is listed as being only 300m long, whereas the later canonical size for this ship is far larger than that.

  19. - Top - End - #139
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Wasn't talia's willingness to scan surface thoughts a point back in Born to the Purple?
    Surface thoughts, not actual memories and certainly not buried memories years old. Unless Sinclair was going to suddenly think about exactly what happened on the Minbari ship they were never going to pick it up in a surface scan (especially since he legitimately doesn't remember). You can headcanon it that when Bester was there one of his directives was to see if he could pick the information up from the surface of Sinclair's thoughts (and checked for it when he deep scanned Talia) and came up dry and reported that back, so they sent in the black ops guys to dig deeper.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2020-01-07 at 02:33 AM.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  20. - Top - End - #140
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    I've only watched two episodes past this so far (combination of being busy and wanting you to catch up so I can watch along), but yeah. I loved this episode.
    You are in for a crazy ride. This was just a tease for when the show really kicks off pretty soon.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  21. - Top - End - #141
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    biggrin Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    S1E9: Deathwalker

    Kosh hires Talia to monitor an important business meeting, but she can't get any clear answer from him what the meeting is about. But he already got clearance for it from her superiors.

    Na'toth sees an alien woman wearing Minbari clothes comes on the station and immediately tries to beat her to death with her bare hands when she recognizes her. Security steps in and arrests Na'Toth, and Garibaldi calls Sinclair. Na'toth claims the woman is the war criminal and mad scientist Deathwalker and her whole clan has sworn to kill her for her countless crimes. Since Na'toth is a foreign diplomat, Sinclair allows her to be detained in G'Kar's quarters during the investigation.

    Talia goes to the meeting of Kosh and weird human man. Kosh tells her to scan the man, but she can't sense any thoughts from him. Which seems to please Kosh.

    Sinclair goes to Doctor Franklin to see how the woman is doing, and Franklin is amazed about how well she seems to be recovering from the near fatal injuries. Sinclair asks the computer for the file on the Dilgar Warmaster Jadur, and the picture matches the woman, but she doesn't seem to have aged at all in 30 years. Garibaldi arrives and shows the a Dilgar uniform that was in her luggage, which also has name tags for Warmaster Jadur. There also was a small box with what looks like vials of medicine, and Franklin goes to analyse it.

    G'Kar is not upset with Na'toth, but explains to her that another Narn diplomat was to secretly meet with Jadur to negotiate to buy a discovery she had made. To maintain the secrecy, the diplomat returned to Narn and G'Kar has been put in charge to make the deal, and they are under order to secretly get Jadur to Narn. Once they have what they need from her, G'Kar will help Na'toth to get her revenge.

    Sinclair gets a call from Earth and an order from the top of the government to send the woman to Earth as soon as possible. The reasons for that are secret.

    Jadur wakes up and tells Franklin to take his hands off her work and to get Sinclair immediately. As Sinclair is on his way, he is stopped by Londo who wants to know if it's true that they have captured Deathwalker. Jadur tells Sinclair that she has discovered a way to stop ageing and restore health, and wants to sell it to the Earth government.

    Kosh and the strange man finish their first meeting, and Talia wants to know why she is there, since the words they are speaking make no sense and she can't sense any of the man's thoughts. Kosh's reply is cryptic, and the man tells her its better not to know.

    Sinclair talks with Delenn's assistant Lennier, who confirms the stories he had heard about Jadur before. She claims that she spend her years in hiding with a group of Minbari, which Lennier identifies as an extremist group within the warrior cast, but he can't believe even they would shelter her.

    G'Kar goes to Jadur and offers her to pay much more for her work than the humans do. She says she will accept, but only if Na'toth is dead.

    Garibaldi is entirely against letting Jadur go, who is probably the most evil and hated person in the galaxy, and Ivanova also doesn't like it. Sinclair decides that he doesn't want to have this on his hands and orders that she is put on her ship and send away as soon as possible, as were his orders from Earth. Garibaldi worries that if anyone finds out about this, all the other great powers and the unaligned worlds will be furious. G'Kar finds out about it and calls the other ambassadors, who then block the corridor leading to Jadur's ship. Sinclair orders that Jadur is held in detainment while he will call a meeting of the diplomatic council.

    The unaligned worlds demand that Jadur is put on trial for all her crimes, and the trial take place on the station. Londo says the Dilgar never had conflict with the Centauri, so they vote against it. G'Kar supports that a trial is being held, but under the condition that it will be on Narn, which the unaligned world oppose. Kosh has declined to take part in the meeting and Sinclair votes in support. To everyone's great surprise, Lennier announces that the Minbari have instructed him to vote against it as well.

    After the meeting, Lennier confesses to Sinclair that the Minbari government learned that some of their people were hiding Jadur when she offered them bioweapons to use in the war against the humans. The government refused to use them, but also wanted to keep it a secret that their people had been hiding her. And now that the government had allowed her to stay with their knowledge for 10 more years, they don't want it to come out even more.

    An unanonuced Drazi ship appears from hyperspace and demands that Jadur be handed over to them or they will attack the station. Ivanova gets ready for battle but over the following minutes more warships from the nonaligned worlds arrive at the station. The leader of the nonaligned delegations tells Sinclair that they rather die in the destruction of the station that letting Jadur get away. Sinclair manages to stall them and the ships move out to a safe distance.

    Talia is watching more strange meeting between Kosh and the strange man, which causes her to keep having weird disturbing visions. As their meetings are finished, the man takes off his hat for the first time and pulls a data crystal from his cybernetic brain, that he gives to Kosh before leaving.

    Sinclair tries to negotiate with the nonaligned worlds that they and Earth work together to learn to reproduce the immortality drug and once they have everything they need, Earth will give Jadur to them for trial. The alien diplomats agree to that deal and withdraw their warships.

    Sinclair and Garibaldi go to Jadur to send her to Earth. She puts on her old uniform and tells them that the secret to her immortality cure requires the killing of another person. With this discovery the other species will all turn on each other to extend their own lives, and the galaxy will go down in flames. And this will be the revenge of the Dilgar for having been wiped out during the last war.

    Her ship approaches the jump gate when suddenly a Vorlon cruiser appears, blows her ship up, and disappears again. Kosh tells the ambassadors that they are not ready for immortality.

    Talia goes to talk with Sinclair and Garibaldi to tell them about Kosh. Somehow he and the other man did something to her mind to relieve old memories, in particular a really bad one of when she scanned the mind of a serial killer. Garibaldi knows the man and says he's a cyborg made to record sensations and memories. But what Kosh might want with Talia's memories they don't know. (And seemingly take very lightly.)

    --

    Okay, I am giving this one a rating of good, even though it just makes it to that category. Not amazing, but you can clearly see the continual improvement. I just checked the production codes of the episode, and they were indeed not shot in the order in which they were shown. And there is a general trend of the better episodes being shot later and the weaker ones being among those shot first. Smart move, I would say. Get some training on filler episode before going into the more important stories.

    Spoiler: Season 1 episodes by production codes and my ratings by memory
    Show

    101 Infection
    102 Soul Hunter
    103 Midnight on the Firing Line
    104 Born to Purple
    () 105 Believers
    106 And the Sky full of Stars
    107 The War Prayer
    108 The Parliament of Dreams
    () 109 Grail
    110 Mind War
    111 Survivors
    112 Crysalis
    113 Deathwalker
    () 114 By any Means Necessary
    () 115 Legacies
    () 116 Signs and Portents
    117 The Quality of Mercy
    () 118 Babylon Squared
    () 119 TKO
    () 120 A Voice in the Wilderness 1
    () 121 A Voice in the Wilderness 2
    122 Eyes

    Adding my hazy memories of great and terrible episodes, you can see a very clear trend here. Really looking forward to what lies ahead.


    While its a pretty good story, I feel the need to mention that the science in this one is pretty bad. It does not feel convincing that the Dilgar fought so viciously that Jadur is the only known survivor of the entire species. Garibaldi mentions the other survivors of the war died when their star turned into a supernova, but the Dilgar were on a massive rampage through the nonaligned worlds. It seems unbelievable that all but Jadur were gathered on the homeworld after they lost the war.
    Also, the idea that there could be a drug that could only be made in a process that kills a living person is not science but magic. But since this show clearly has plenty of magic, I can let that slide. That's just how this show rolls.

    While Jadur had one a few moments in only this episode, I found the character to be really quite memorable. The actress really did pull it off to strut around like a legendary warlord who has the whole galaxy at the balls. With no time to get used to the character and develop her personality, I think that's quite impressive.

    I also quite like that even though Delenn and Lennier are clearly very nice and cultivated people, it's not only the thing with Sinclair's capture that is quite shady about the Minbari. They aren't the goodly space elves they seem to like to present themselves as.

    I believe Talia's weird story here is regarded as the best known of the many contingencies the series had ready in case it would be ready to switch out characters. Supposedly, every character was replaceable and in a way that would look like it had been long foreshadowed and cleverly planned. Kosh having taken snapshots of Talia's mind could have been used in all manners of interesting ways, but I believe it never got actually used. It still did its parts in helping Kosh feel really weird.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  22. - Top - End - #142
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    I always got the impression that the destruction of the Dilgar was less 'none of them survived' and more 'THEY'LL NEVER TAKE US ALIVE'. They refused to surrender and basically forced them to wipe them out in all foreign locations, then the supernova wiped out their homeworld.

    This was a decent episode, and a good bottle episode - only 1 new costume in Jadur, everything else had previously been used. Definitely done on a budget, but still a good episode, although the ending was a big DXM from the sky. It proposes an interesting theoretical question about what is justified - could you harvest the component only from condemned criminals, from terminally ill patients that want to die anyway, etc?

    Then a big Vorlon from the sky just eliminates the question with a giant middle finger and its never mentioned again.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  23. - Top - End - #143
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    I would say not at all. The Vorlons showing up does not simply exist to solve an unfixable problem, and they don't appear out of nowhere. It's a significant piece in establishing their weird relationship with the other races and their secrecy. It also shows that the Vorlons can simply get away with such a stunt. If anyone else had done it, there would have been huge diplomatic drama. Kosh simply says "you are not ready yet" and walks out, and everyone else can only shrug with the shoulders and think "Vorlons..."
    I would actually not be surprised if the concept for this episode started with this ending and everything else was constructed to be the setup for the punchline. Seeing the show for the first time I can see how it might be taken as being a cheap non-solution, but I regard it as sneaky foreshadowing.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  24. - Top - End - #144
    Banned
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2019

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    This is one of the best season 1 epsiodes. I like all the politics: it shows how very much different this show is from DS9 and it's lots of fun. It's great when Sinclar rightly says ''this is too big for us": but then they get SO trapped right in the middle. It's also great to see the Vorlons do something too.




    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post


    While its a pretty good story, I feel the need to mention that the science in this one is pretty bad. It does not feel convincing that the Dilgar fought so viciously that Jadur is the only known survivor of the entire species. Garibaldi mentions the other survivors of the war died when their star turned into a supernova, but the Dilgar were on a massive rampage through the nonaligned worlds. It seems unbelievable that all but Jadur were gathered on the homeworld after they lost the war.
    I got the impression that the Dilgar pretty much killed themselves by "death by attacks". They just kept attacking until you killed them. Like their version of a holy war: they go to ''Valhalla" if they die in a fight.

    The death by supernova? Er...well, sure a star can just suddenly ''go nova'', but that is rare to an extreme. So they should of had PLENTY of time to escape the blast. One wonders if the Dilgar blew up their own sun? Or did someone one else do it (maybe the Vorlons?)


    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Also, the idea that there could be a drug that could only be made in a process that kills a living person is not science but magic. But since this show clearly has plenty of magic, I can let that slide. That's just how this show rolls.
    Well, there Is something ''special" about sentience even when you break it down to science. Like science can explain..sort of...how the brain works with electrochemical bonds to form things like thoughts and memories. But it's not ''so simple", as after all you can't just ''add a chemical with a zap" to a brain and make a memory. In short, there is very much something unique about a humanoid brain.

    It's also a bit amazing that this show is from decades ago.....and real scientists today say we are only a couple years from ''living forever". We might even see it in our life times....


    This episode makes one wonder what the Vorlons have done over history. Sure they ignore most things most of the time.....but every so often DO do something.

  25. - Top - End - #145
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid Tony View Post
    It's also a bit amazing that this show is from decades ago.....and real scientists today say we are only a couple years from ''living forever". We might even see it in our life times...
    If you want to know when futurologists predict immortality to be achived, you don't have to ask them. Just take their birth year + 80.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  26. - Top - End - #146
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    So, can someone give me a rundown of the politics involved in this episode?

    Like I'm getting familiar with the main races (though I admit to never remembering the name "narn" and instead think of them as the "G'kaars"), but this group of unaligned worlds or whatever... they feel like they came out of nowhere. I am not certain why there's this huge room full of alien species that are apparently too unimportant to merit a council seat, and I recall one of them specifically claiming they had supported humanity against the Minbari, or something similar. Have they come up before this episode and I just missed them? Are they all combined to effectively one voice, or is there a hundred minor conflicting voices that our main cast just walks above for the most part?
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  27. - Top - End - #147
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    The League of Non-aligned Worlds is just that, a bunch of smaller factions without much individual power (compared to the Big Players) but collectively have a voice in the council. Their ambassadors all get to sit in on full council meetings, but just get one vote between them. Meanwhile Earth, the Narn, Vorlons, Centauri and Minbari all get a vote each.
    Now with half the calories!

  28. - Top - End - #148
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Olinser's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    California
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    So, can someone give me a rundown of the politics involved in this episode?

    Like I'm getting familiar with the main races (though I admit to never remembering the name "narn" and instead think of them as the "G'kaars"), but this group of unaligned worlds or whatever... they feel like they came out of nowhere. I am not certain why there's this huge room full of alien species that are apparently too unimportant to merit a council seat, and I recall one of them specifically claiming they had supported humanity against the Minbari, or something similar. Have they come up before this episode and I just missed them? Are they all combined to effectively one voice, or is there a hundred minor conflicting voices that our main cast just walks above for the most part?
    They've been mentioned before. The League of Non-Aligned worlds is a group of individual governments who send their own diplomatic ambassadors, but who elect a main representative that acts as a representative of the LONA - think the EU in space. They can still conduct diplomacy/trade/military actions on their own, but they are signed on as a group to the League, and are bound by some obligations and rights.

    I believe the only races so far that have been named are the Drazi and the Abbai (who provide the current main representative that the human superiority group tried to kill previously). Other races that are visible in the voting room and on the station that are members but haven't been named yet are the Markab (look similar to the Drazi but much lighter skin tone), the Pak'Ma'Ra (tentacle face), the Vree (look like Little Green Men), the Brakiri (have Ferengi foreheads), and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head.

    As a group, the League of Non-Aligned Worlds has 1 vote, while the Vorlons, Humans, Minbari and Narn all have their own votes. That's why they were able to override the nations in the LONA to say Jadur would not be sent to them, but also why the various nations that showed up started arguing among themselves as to who actually had the rights to try Jadur first.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

    I use the same name in every game I ever play or forum I join (except the pretender on PSN that forced me to be RealOlinser). If you see an Olinser in a game or on a website, there's a high chance it's me, feel free to shoot me a message.

  29. - Top - End - #149
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Droid Tony View Post
    The death by supernova? Er...well, sure a star can just suddenly ''go nova'', but that is rare to an extreme. So they should of had PLENTY of time to escape the blast. One wonders if the Dilgar blew up their own sun? Or did someone one else do it (maybe the Vorlons?)
    It's not explicitly said in the episode, but my headcanon on that was that their star being about to go nova was why the Dilgar went on their rampage in the first place--they wanted to survive and, instead of just asking to have a bunch of people resettled elsewhere, they chose to take those places by force. When they were driven back to their homeworld they were then doomed.

    Jha'Dur is played by Sarah Douglas, incidentally, who's probably better known as Ursa from Superman II--and yes, she's a great actress who ought to be a lot more famous than she actually is.

    As for the Talia stuff, it's pretty clear what all that was supposed to be used for:

    Spoiler
    Show

    When she was outed as "Control" her personality was overwritten near the end of season 2. The idea of all this is that the crystal the strange man gave Kosh was effectively a recording of Talia's personality that could be used to replace the Control personality and bring her back to how she was. This became unnecessary when Andrea Thompson left the series and her remaining role got given to Lyta Alexander, so this is one of those dangling plot threads that never went anywhere.

  30. - Top - End - #150
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    mad Re: Yora reviews Babylon 5

    S1E10: Believers

    Doctor Franklin has a patient whose parents are refusing the treatment for the life threatening condition. He can't believe it and is shocked and outraged, and his assistant keeps trying to explain to him that its not his choice. Sinclair could order him to do so anyeay, but Sinclair wants to keep neutrality on these things on this multicultural station. After much angry monologing he decides to operate anyway and the child ends up getting killed.

    Ivanova is really bored at work and when there's an emergency that requires a fighter escort she whines until Sinclair orders her to go. There's some bland pew pew and the ship reaches the station safely.

    And that is it.

    --

    I remembered this episode as being the worst of the entire show, and it seems I was right. This is a terribly failed attempt at being a deep and meaningful Star Trek episode. It's basically 45 minutes up on a soapbox with not a single shred of subtlety or nuances anywhere to be seen.
    Franklin supposedly spend years getting rides on random ships in exchange for free medical care for crew and passengers, but apparently he never encountered the idea that people might have different views on medical ethics.

    Ivanova's stuff is really brief and nothing of any consequence happens at any point. It's only there to make it look like there is anything other than Franklin's drama in this episode, but there really isn't.

    It's just awful with not a single redeeming feature.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •