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2020-03-01, 04:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Last edited by hamishspence; 2020-03-01 at 04:15 AM.
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2020-03-01, 06:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
It's a rule I'm pretty sure no one has ever used, but technically it applies.
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2020-03-01, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2017
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- Bristol, UK
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
3.0 had Ghostwise Halfling, which had Barbarian as its favored class, maybe Belkar is one of them? He doesn't appear to be telepathic, but maybe his psychopathic tendencies meant that he never developed Speak without Sound, or maybe he was born without it, and the social isolation contributed to his violent nature?
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2020-03-01, 08:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Ghostwise Halfings are Faerun-only - they don't occur in Greyhawk, Dragonlance, or Eberron, so one wouldn't expect them to occur in OOTS either.
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2020-03-01, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
OK, this is annoying. I specifically went onto the SRD to look up multiclassing in case there was some aspect I was missing before I made my post, and the page on multiclass characters doesn't list anything about an XP penalty. However, the page on Races specifies "A character’s favored class doesn’t count against him or her when determining experience point penalties for multiclassing.". Apparently you're supposed to guess what those penalties actually are, or else they're on an entirely different page...
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2020-03-01, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
The SRD doesn't include everything. Notably, the XP tables are left out.
The details on multiclassing penalties are on page 60 of the PHB. Each class that's not within 1 level of your highest level class, causes a 20% penalty to XP gained.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2020-03-02, 05:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
It is, as pointed out, a rule hardly anyone ever actually uses, hence Pathfinder doing away with it and making favored classes do something else. I don't expect it to have even crossed the giant's mind while doing anything even tangentially related to writing the strip, unless maybe it was going to feature in a joke that got cut.
Last edited by RatElemental; 2020-03-02 at 05:49 AM.
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2020-03-10, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
To respond to the original post, any 15th level TWF ranger with high strength (higher when raging) will pretty much kill any level appropriate enemy in reach in a single round.
They do a lot less damage when they have to move+attack (Belkar doesn't seem to have any of the feats that let him move+full attack - the combos are rare and often require several feats or weird multiclassing), but most scenes with Belkar stacking up bodies have him surrounded by enemies or the enemies are quite weak (like at Azure City or vs the Thieves Guild).
I find Belkar's power level to be about what you'd expect if you assume he has favored enemy goblinoid, undead and probably human. (or maybe giant. he likes the thumping sound of ogres hitting the ground), and you assume he's a strength-based ranger, using the ranger bonus feats to get TWF all the way up without having to invest as much in dex as you'd have to do as a straight fighter. He isn't as strong as Roy, but he also probably could have held that rope in the storm in spite of his tiny mass.
I've straight up played Belkar expies in a variety of CRPGs as primary protagonist and they worked quite well from low levels to epic (Various versions of Neverwinter Nights and various games using Balder's Gate infinity engine - he works pretty well as a TWF fighter under 2nd edition rules too, and usually works fine even in a "short" party but lacks flexibility enough for solo play).
CRPGs tend to feature more fights with weaker opponents than the typical "3 encounters per day" of 3.x tabletop, but I've seen similar performance in tabletop from fighters built along his lines in the level 1-15 range too.Last edited by Seward; 2020-03-10 at 02:06 AM.
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2020-03-10, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
The easiest way to get pounce in 3.5 is to take three levels of Barbarian with an alternate class feature in place of fast movement.
We know alternate class features are in play, Thog is a dungeoncrasher. We know Belkar has one or more levels of barbarian. He could have pounce, and wearing light armor would put him at the same speed as the heavy/medium armor wearers, I don't think anything in the comic has ever referenced him having fast movement.
So, he could have pounce if he needs it for anything he's been shown to do.
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2020-03-10, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
There is also a very obvious Doylist answer:
Belkar has to be good at fighting, or else there would be no reason for Roy to tolerate his existence in the team. This is also why he suddenly became competent at tracking and other ranger stuff.
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2020-03-10, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.
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2020-03-10, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Washington D.C.
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2020-03-13, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Without fast movement Belkar would need to be carried in all the "run away" scenes. Halflings have only 20' movement speed, and when he was teamed with Haley in Don't Split the Party he had no trouble keeping up with her.
By contrast we've never seen him move+full attack, although we have seen him spring attack. So nice as that alternate class feature would be, I don't think he has it.Last edited by Seward; 2020-03-13 at 06:30 PM.
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2020-03-13, 08:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
20', that would be the same speed as Roy and Durkon? So why does he need to be carried if they don't?
I agree that there's no particular reason to assume pounce, for that matter, there's no particular reason to assume Barbarian is as high as 3, but Belkar is as fast as much of the order even if he does not get a speed boost.
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2020-03-14, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
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2020-03-14, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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2020-03-14, 11:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Well also Hobgoblins have 30' of movement too, and they didn't instantly catch Haley+Belkar.
I mean you can argue other ways but the default assumption is the simplest, which is that after he had the Barbarian level he moved at the same speed as Haley, V and Elan. (when Nale got him to sing musical songs while chasing other party members, I don't think any of them simply outran him effortlessly)
Plus - the extra movement is +4 to his jump skill. Yes he has a ring of jumping but he does like to jump as part of his combat style and it's not a trivial bonus.
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2020-03-15, 02:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Manchester, UK
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
I'm puzzled here--what you just said appears to be agreeing with my viewpoint, but it's worded as if it's disagreeing? I'm on the side of Belkar having native 30' speed at this point.
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2020-03-15, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Sorry that response sort of conflated various replies.
I think he has Barbarian Fast Movement and thus can't have the Barbarian Pounce option.
Not only is it the simpler (less splatbook) option, we've seen a lot of scenes that imply he moves as fast as Haley, Elan and V (when V isn't flying) and none that indicates he's slower than other opponents that probably have 30' movement speed.
Plus no scenes that would imply he has a move+full attack ability beyond 5' step range.
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2020-03-17, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
- Location
- A Michigan Far, Far Away
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
He has the Barbarian Fast Movement and uses his Ring of Jumping to pounce with.
Alternatively, he has whatever the author wants him to have, for the purposes of making the scene look good; since Belkar has clearly pounced to the attack a time or two that I can recall.
Or maybe he cheated on his character sheet when levelling up as a Barbarian and took the bonus starting feat for a 1st level character when he wasn't entitled to it. That's certainly in character for Belkar. And it would fit in with the advice Lord Shojo gave him later (well, the imaginary ghost of Shojo, anyway).
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2020-04-16, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
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2020-04-16, 11:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2020-04-17, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
- Location
- A Humorous Location
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2020-04-17, 03:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
- Location
- Germany
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Last edited by Kantaki; 2020-04-17 at 03:27 AM.
"If it lives it can be killed.
If it is dead it can be eaten."
Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
(Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")
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2020-05-10, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
Strength is pretty relative, yeah none of the Order's members would be particularly impressive against any equally leveled character that was even a bit optimized, but quite clearly the only people that seem to particularly care about optimization are one-off joke characters, and none of the main players of the story have ever shown to care all that much about it. Also, this world clearly plays Calvinball as far as the game mechanics go, so why should it even matter? It's been shown numerous times that it's much more reliable to bank on your media literacy and knowledge of narrative structure than to try and get ahead by using mechanical knowledge
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2020-05-17, 02:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
a quote from one of my favourite authors
"Suspend your disbelief"
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2020-05-17, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: How is belkar so good at fighting?
The explanation is rule of cool and this isn't actually a real DnD campaign.
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2020-05-19, 03:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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