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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Except I never said "film canon" as a separate category is alive. I've never argued on that. I've argued that needing information on Disney+ or Kindle is bad filmmaking.
    Why? In this era of streaming services and 8 episode made-for-stream TV shows basically replacing movies, why is it important that a source spent a few weeks on the big screen?

    Edit: Especially when the problem only comes up because you watched something available on the same media as the answer?
    Last edited by Rakaydos; 2020-01-21 at 05:04 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Why? In this era of streaming services and 8 episode made-for-stream TV shows basically replacing movies, why is it important that a source spent a few weeks on the big screen?
    Because that's still where most people will get exposed to Star Wars. I'm not the guy whose confused when Maul pops up. I'm the guy who had the official guide written by Pablo Hidalgo. The vast, vast majority of people are not like that. They go see Star Wars in the theater. They don't pop open their tablet to read the novels or comics, they don't sign up for Disney Plus and throw the cartoons on, they go see the movies. That hasn't changed.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-21 at 05:18 PM.
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    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Because that's still where most people will get exposed to Star Wars. I'm not the guy whose confused when Maul pops up. I'm the guy who had the official guide written by Pablo Hidalgo. The vast, vast majority of people are not like that. They go see Star Wars in the theater. They don't pop open their tablet to read the novels or comics, they don't sign up for Disney Plus and throw the cartoons on, they go see the movies. That hasn't changed.
    Will that still be true, though, after the train wreck of the sequel series? When The Mandalorian is the last saving grace of disney star wars, and the new season of Clone Wars turns out pretty good, will people consider The High Republic to have more public awareness than baby yoda?

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Will that still be true, though, after the train wreck of the sequel series? When The Mandalorian is the last saving grace of disney star wars, and the new season of Clone Wars turns out pretty good, will people consider The High Republic to have more public awareness than baby yoda?
    Probably.

    Imean, Baby Yoda himself, probably not. Dudes everywhere. But Cara Dune, IG-11, et al? Probably. Mandalorian did have some heavy marketing, more so than I think any other show they've ever done, so hey, maybe I'll be surprised.

    And on a semi-related note, thank god for Disney getting rid of that horrible canon level system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post

    And on a semi-related note, thank god for Disney getting rid of that horrible canon level system.
    Nothing's ever really gone...

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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saph View Post
    So at this point I think I can say Iím officially done. Iíve got zero interest in seeing RoS, and the fact that itís currently in cinemas and Iíd have to pay for it is just the icing on the cake. Itís going to suck, and Iíve not spending two and a half hours of my life discovering just how it sucks.
    Understandable - I did basically the same thing with Rise of Skywalker. Though I had just enough interest to look up spoilers, mostly out of wanting to know how it might impact future movies. It is indeed sad how accurate your bullet points were, in ways that they should not be.

    Personally though, I do at least still have some hope left. Not for the sequels/Rise of Skywalker, obviously, but for future films. Rogue One exists, and is a testament to the fact that Disney can make a good Star Wars film, so I'm not willing to completely write them off. I'm certainly a lot warier of them than I was when they first bought the franchise, and the odds of me watching any further films helmed by Abrams or especially Rian Johnson are low to nonexistent, but I've not totally given up on the franchise.
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  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Saph, if you haven't already seen Deinekes' title crawl, I found a recreation so you can experience it thematically. A minute and a half, if you choose.

    Spoiler: This way you can rage quit after the title crawl by default!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    I actually think you might like Rise of Skywalker. I hate it for pretty much the reasons I love Last Jedi and find Force Awakens, ok to Enjoyable.

    Rise is the most Prequelish of new films.
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    Saph will find it to be a violent criminal offense. I guarantee it would be mean to ask him to watch it. I spent the entire watchthrough either screaming behind gritted teeth or just numb at the utter idiocy. They could not have made a worse conclusion to the saga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Saph will find it to be a violent criminal offense. I guarantee it would be mean to ask him to watch it. I spent the entire watchthrough either screaming behind gritted teeth or just numb at the utter idiocy. They could not have made a worse conclusion to the saga.
    Oh I agree I thought it was hot garbage. But looking at his ratings he enjoyed most of the starwars stuff I thought was hot garbage.
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Explain how it is bad writing, using only the events of Solo? No referring to any other media.
    I already did.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSummoner View Post
    Introducing Darth Maul into the end of Solo stops the story from being self-contained. If you have only seen this movie, you have no clue who he is and he comes out of nowhere.
    To expand further, his appearance adds nothing to the movie other than a confusing nod to nostalgia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    I have bolded the part of your complaint that Disney does not consider valid. There -is- canon exposition to explain canon, in the case of Maul, but Disney doesn't need to remake the Dathomir arc of Clone wars as a feature length film before they use the fallout of that arc on film. "Film canon" as a separate category is dead. If you want to know who that alien crime lord is, everything you need to know is on Disney+ or on Kindle.
    It doesn't matter what Disney "considers valid." It doesn't matter that there is a canon explanation. It is bad storytelling and neither of those things change that. Stop falling back on what Disney "considers valid." They "considered valid" a lot of stupid things that made the sequels bad movies. That phrase means nothing.

    It is bad writing for the story to not be self contained. The original movies and the prequels both tell self contained stories. The former tells the story of Luke and the triumph of the rebels over the Empire. The latter tells the story of the fall of Anakin and the formation of that empire. They take place in the same universe and they compliment each other, but they still tell their own story without needing to know anything from the other trilogy to make sense of it.

    As for Maul in Solo, taken on its own, it's confusing because you have no clue who he is or what relevance he has. Is this going to be expanded on in some sequel? I doubt it, Solo flopped. Taken as a part of the movies collectively, it's confusing because the viewer has every reason to believe he is dead. Only if you watch the cartoon, which is a bit more niche than everything mentioned so far do you have any idea why he's still alive. It would be like watching Lord of the Rings and at the end some character from a video game based on the series swoops in and pushes Gollum and the ring into Mt. Doom. "Dont know who he is? Too bad, he's canon"
    Last edited by TheSummoner; 2020-01-21 at 08:51 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSummoner View Post
    I already did.



    To expand further, his appearance adds nothing to the movie other than a confusing nod to nostalgia.



    It doesn't matter what Disney "considers valid." It doesn't matter that there is a canon explanation. It is bad storytelling and neither of those things change that. Stop falling back on what Disney "considers valid." They "considered valid" a lot of stupid things that made the sequels bad movies. That phrase means nothing.

    It is bad writing for the story to not be self contained. The original movies and the prequels both tell self contained stories. The former tells the story of Luke and the triumph of the rebels over the Empire. The latter tells the story of the fall of Anakin and the formation of that empire. They take place in the same universe and they compliment each other, but they still tell their own story without needing to know anything from the other trilogy to make sense of it.

    As for Maul in Solo, taken on its own, it's confusing because you have no clue who he is or what relevance he has. Is this going to be expanded on in some sequel? I doubt it, Solo flopped. Taken as a part of the movies collectively, it's confusing because the viewer has every reason to believe he is dead. Only if you watch the cartoon, which is a bit more niche than everything mentioned so far do you have any idea why he's still alive. It would be like watching Lord of the Rings and at the end some character from a video game based on the series swoops in and pushes Gollum and the ring into Mt. Doom. "Dont know who he is? Too bad, he's canon"
    Betcha you'd change your tune if a certian blue skinned Grand Admiral showed up in a movie without a explanation for how he overcame imperial prejudice.

  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSummoner View Post
    As for RoS
    Spoiler
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    This still leaves the issues of not knowing which way is up. There's really no way to justify this one. There's a beacon on the ground and another on the main ship that says which way is up. They clearly have the capability of knowing which way us up, but the ships are inexplicably designed in such a way that they can't without being told by one of the beacons. Lacking basic navigation isn't the sort of flaw that you can explain as a design oversight. It's nothing short of incompetence. They rose from the ground earlier, why not just go the way the top of the ship is pointing? Palpatine used the force to lift them from the ground, why doesn't he use it to push them up?

    Because the heroes need to win somehow and throwing that sort of massive handicap at the enemy is the only way for them to do it without it feeling even cheaper than it already does.
    Spoiler: ROS
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    I think me and you might be remembering different bits - and maybe the bits I am remembering are misremembered, I only saw it once and it being ok was my major take away.

    The reason that the ships needed a beacon (wherever it was) was not because they didn't know which way was up but because there was a 'space storm' for lack of a better description around the planet. Rey and Ren needed to find a map to the planet but after they knew where it was they still needed to navigate through the storm - which could be done with a small ship unaided but for a larger ship needed a beacon to map the course.
    This does of course present other problems - why didn't every ship have a beacon (even if one has to stay behind it would be better) why didn't they send the ships out before announcing there plan to subjugate the galaxy (so it wouldn't be an issue) etc.

    But I am argueing that the movie meets the following threshold:
    Quote Originally Posted by Saph View Post
    C: Okay. Anything thatís interesting enough to hold my attention. Itís probably not great, but it does enough things right that I'm willing to stick with it, at least until my attention wanders and I find something else. Probably contains both good and boring material, depending where you look. The kind of movie you like enough to watch if it's on TV, but not enough to buy a cinema ticket.

    D: Bad. This is the quality level at which I'm likely to pause the movie halfway through, realise that I don't actually care enough to keep going, and switch it off. Either it's annoying, or (more likely) it's just kind of boring and isn't making me want to know what happens next. In this case I'm unlikely to do that, but at this point I'm probably going to have more fun picking apart what's wrong with the movie than I am with actually watching it.
    On only one watch this left me thinking it is somewhere between a good bad movie or a good ok movie, but it is not a good movie (if I saw it again I might up it to a bad good movie but I doubt it - it more likely would lead me to think it was at best an ok ok movie).
    I am not argueing it was a masterpiece - merely better then the other two movies in its trilogy (and ok in general).


    Quote Originally Posted by afroakuma View Post
    Saph will find it to be a violent criminal offense. I guarantee it would be mean to ask him to watch it. I spent the entire watchthrough either screaming behind gritted teeth or just numb at the utter idiocy. They could not have made a worse conclusion to the saga.
    Did you think the Last Jedi was merely bad (or better then bad) because Saph seemed to hate it (which I would concur with) - a lot of people who hated Last Jedi thought Rise of Skywalker was ok (or better).

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Saph, if you haven't already seen Deinekes' title crawl, I found a recreation so you can experience it thematically. A minute and a half, if you choose.

    Spoiler: This way you can rage quit after the title crawl by default!
    Show
    Video unavailable - they couldn't even do a title crawl correctly!

    While that is what the video showed me on a more serious note.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    ... Solo ... Maul ...
    Lets imagine that there was no canon featuring Maul - no episodes of Clone Wars or Rebels, no comics featuring him after he fell in The Phantom Menace etc, would that make it better or worse?
    If that had happened I would think a lot of people would think it a plot hook to be explained rather than a plot hole that needs to be filled with other media.
    Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-01-21 at 09:14 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Betcha you'd change your tune if a certian blue skinned Grand Admiral showed up in a movie without a explanation for how he overcame imperial prejudice.
    What prejudice exists in the movies?

    For reals, though, the Rebels are all human in ANH and ESB, and only get (very few) alien allies in ROTJ. Namely, Nien Nunb and Admiral Akbar. The Empire hires non-human bounty hunters in ESB and work with a non-human spy in ANH. There's not much evidence of human-centric prejudice, and the appearance of an alien admiral would be no more off than the same in ROTJ.
    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    Lets imagine that there was no canon featuring Maul - no episodes of Clone Wars or Rebels, no comics featuring him after he fell in The Phantom Menace etc, would that make it better or worse?
    If that had happened I would think a lot of people would think it a plot hook to be explained rather than a plot hole that needs to be filled with other media.
    Lets imagine the exact scenario that effectively exists for the majority of people who do not read/watch ancillary materials? OK, nothing is changed as far as my argument goes.

    I've never called it a plot hole. I called it bad filmmaking. When I saw him come back in Clone Wars I thought it was bad storytelling, because we supposedly saw him die. When movie-only-watchers people saw him in Solo, they thought the same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Betcha you'd change your tune if a certian blue skinned Grand Admiral showed up in a movie without a explanation for how he overcame imperial prejudice.
    The Empire's anti-nonhuman sentiment is at most implied in the movies; it's never made explicit, and it's not like the Rebellion was portrayed any differently from the Empire in terms of nonhuman inclusion in A New Hope or The Empire Strikes Back.

    Furthermore, the only part of the Empire that we really see are the armed forces - and at that only a small part of them - and if you have the resources to do so then segregating the military by species makes logical sense, because even if it does nothing else it simplifies logistics and training. If the crew of the Star Destroyer Foo is entirely human, I don't need to provide it with Hutt- or Trandoshan- or Gand-compatible crew stations and escape pods and spacesuits and pilots' uniforms and stormtrooper armor, I don't need to provide it with Quarren- or Skakoan-comfortable crew quarters, I don't need to provide it with medical staff who know at least basic first aid for a dozen different species and can reliably provide the appropriate form in a crisis, and I don't need to provide it with consumables that are appropriate for each - and safe for all - of a dozen different species represented in its crew. The Rebellion appears to do this species-based segregation in the Original Trilogy despite its probably significantly lesser resources - the bases we see in the first two movies are human-only, while there are a handful of visible nonhumans in pilots' uniforms there is no unambiguous evidence of mixed-species squadrons, Ackbar's bridge crew appears to be almost entirely Mon Calamari, the Rebel infiltration team sent to destroy the shield generator on the Sanctuary Moon is human with the exception of Chewbacca.

    I've never called it a plot hole. I called it bad filmmaking. When I saw him come back in Clone Wars I thought it was bad storytelling, because we supposedly saw him die. When movie-only-watchers people saw him in Solo, they thought the same thing.
    When I watched Solo, I was uncertain who he was - sure, he looked kind of like Darth Maul, but red-and-black facial tattoos could be a cultural thing (and it wouldn't surprise me as something that the writers seized on, seeing as we have "all Bothans are spies" because "many Bothans (or Manny Both-Hanz) died to bring us this information," "all Hutts are crime lords" because Jabba (and Gardula) is a crime lord, "all Mandalorians are individualistic super-warriors" because of how Boba Fett was portrayed, etc), and Darth Maul was cut in half and dropped down a seemingly-bottomless pit. Moreover, the style of the lightsaber hit was different, which indicated to me that it was a different character since lightsabers are generally assumed to be built or at least personalized by their wielders and you'd expect that two lightsabers belonging to the same wielder would have similar aesthetics unless at least one is a trophy.

    Beyond that, I don't see any narrative reason within the film for him to be in it, beyond the obvious sequel bait.* He's not needed as a motivator for Qi'ra's sort-of-betrayal of Han or her much more clear-cut betrayal of her boss at the end of the movie, and he's probably not the crime lord Han and what's-his-name fear because as far as I can tell from the film neither of them knows he exists.

    *More like spin-off-of-a-spin-off bait, since he fairly obviously cannot have any significant presence in Han's life due to Han's lack of belief in the existence of a supernatural Force or the supernatural abilities of the Jedi demonstrated by his words and behavior in A New Hope.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2020-01-21 at 10:14 PM.

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    They said " Film canon was dead " but it actually isn't. Rise of Skywalker retcons some established lore from the comics and books that Disney put out after Force Awakens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    They said " Film canon was dead " but it actually isn't. Rise of Skywalker retcons some established lore from the comics and books that Disney put out after Force Awakens.
    It also retconned lore from the previous two movies, so I don't see the problem :p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kornaki View Post
    It also retconned lore from the previous two movies, so I don't see the problem :p
    You're right. Under the guise of " Appealing to the fans. " It made to me the most insulting movie in the franchise.
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Personally I think the reveal of Maul was further evidence that they planned to do another Solo movie and explain even more of Han's backstory. The audience's reaction at the end is supposed to be: "Maul? But how?" And be a hook for Solo 2: Hutt Boogaloo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Betcha you'd change your tune if a certian blue skinned Grand Admiral showed up in a movie without a explanation for how he overcame imperial prejudice.
    I've never read any of the books, so I have no particular attachment to Thrawn. That said, if it was the same scene with him instead of Maul, all but one of my criticisms would still hold. It would still add nothing, come out of nowhere, and be confusing to people who don't have outside knowledge and don't know who the character is. The only improvement is that it wouldn't be a character that many have reason to believe is dead. Still bad writing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSummoner View Post
    I've never read any of the books, so I have no particular attachment to Thrawn. That said, if it was the same scene with him instead of Maul, all but one of my criticisms would still hold. It would still add nothing, come out of nowhere, and be confusing to people who don't have outside knowledge and don't know who the character is. The only improvement is that it wouldn't be a character that many have reason to believe is dead. Still bad writing.
    I disagree. In fact lets remove Thrawn and just say 'random alien'. The scene would add in something in that there is another boss she's reporting to, which is a classic sequel hook. It doesn't really come out of nowhere, not that much anyways. No more than Leia being Luke's sister. And it wouldn't be confusing to outsiders because all they need to know is that there is another boss of the criminals.

    Put Thrawn back in and all that remains true. Old EU fans would get a thrill and be wondering if we'd get a proper Thrawn trilogy ect, but the average person would just get 'random alien crime boss', which would still work.

    Maul is bad writing because the last time we saw him he was pretty dead. Cut in half and falling down a bottomless pit is about as dead as it gets. Going from that to 'he's alive and a gang boss' is a massive leap. That's confusing, and it doesn't really add anything on to just having it be a random alien. Frig, you can even make it the same species as Maul if you want.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Lets imagine the exact scenario that effectively exists for the majority of people who do not read/watch ancillary materials? OK, nothing is changed as far as my argument goes.
    I would agree with your basic premise - 'it needs to be properly explained in a movie and as it wasn't other material is not relevant' (if I am paraphrasing correctly).

    I am just thinking that a conversation like this (assume you have only seen the movies and I have seen/read etc a lot more).
    Peelee: Darth Maul!? Didn't he die - what is this?
    dancrilis: Yeah ... I got nothing, they might be setting something up, maybe?

    Seems better then:
    Peelee: Darth Maul!? Didn't he die - what is this?
    dancrilis: To understand that you need to watch a cartoon (that doesn't really explain how he actually survived very well), then read a comic, and then watch another cartoon - and you will have his full story, don't worry it appears to finish him off so he is completely irrelevant to the wider universe. If you feel like watching them the first cartoon is fairly decent and the second is ok.

    Or to look at it another way:
    Peelee: Darth Vader is Luke's father!? Didn't he die - what is this?
    dancrilis: Yeah ... I got nothing, they might be setting something up, maybe?

    Seems better then:
    Peelee: Darth Vader is Luke's father!? Didn't he die - what is this?
    dancrilis: To understand you need to read this book, then watch a play and then finish this computer game - it is an interesting enough story all told.

    Which is why I asked if having the additional materials in media might make it worse then if they didn't exist.

  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    Maul is bad writing because the last time we saw him he was pretty dead. Cut in half and falling down a bottomless pit is about as dead as it gets. Going from that to 'he's alive and a gang boss' is a massive leap. That's confusing, and it doesn't really add anything on to just having it be a random alien. Frig, you can even make it the same species as Maul if you want.
    If that's the last time you saw him, you don't have a full picture, and it's not Disney's fault because they have the full picture available for less than the ticket you just paid for.

    One of the first things Disney said when they got the licence was that movies arnt special anymore- everything would be held to the same level of consistency and characters like Saw Guerra could jump from animation to live action and back. (Admitedly, I wasn't expecting that to mean bringing the sequel trilogy down to Aftermath's level, but don't say they didn't keep their promises.)

  24. - Top - End - #504
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    If that's the last time you saw him, you don't have a full picture, and it's not Disney's fault because they have the full picture available for less than the ticket you just paid for.

    One of the first things Disney said when they got the licence was that movies arnt special anymore- everything would be held to the same level of consistency and characters like Saw Guerra could jump from animation to live action and back. (Admitedly, I wasn't expecting that to mean bringing the sequel trilogy down to Aftermath's level, but don't say they didn't keep their promises.)
    Except that they didn't keep their promises. Rise of Skywalker shows that they are more than willing to completely ignore stuff that appears in other media. Since they completely retconned Poe's backstory.
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  25. - Top - End - #505
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    If that's the last time you saw him, you don't have a full picture, and it's not Disney's fault because they have the full picture available for less than the ticket you just paid for.
    Yes it is their fault, and no the full picture is not available for less than £5. It costs time to watch a TV series or read a book or whatever, and there's no reason I should have to, especially since I had no way of knowing ahead of time that it would be required. When I choose to buy a movie ticket, I choose to give up two to three hours of my time and no more to be entertained, because that is the standard for a movie-ticket-buying contract in our culture. If the makers of the movie don't respect that contract, that is 100% their problem.

  26. - Top - End - #506
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    If that's the last time you saw him, you don't have a full picture, and it's not Disney's fault because they have the full picture available for less than the ticket you just paid for.

    One of the first things Disney said when they got the licence was that movies arnt special anymore- everything would be held to the same level of consistency and characters like Saw Guerra could jump from animation to live action and back. (Admitedly, I wasn't expecting that to mean bringing the sequel trilogy down to Aftermath's level, but don't say they didn't keep their promises.)
    I don't think this is really addressing the concern, because the concern is less "It's in the EU and so not canon!" but is more Chuck Sonnenberg's "You don't get credit for things that you didn't put in the movie because IT'S NOT IN THE MOVIE!". The idea is that if the scene only works if you know what was said in other media that isn't a prerequisite for the movie then it's bad writing, as a good writer should be able to make it work. Some have said that it does work, because if you haven't seen anything else it's just a standard "greater villain" hook, but there's an additional complication here -- again not solved by your comment -- that Solo is definitely part of the movie franchise, and so it would have to be at least somewhat expected that people who went to see it saw earlier entries and so will wonder how that guy who was clearly dead is suddenly alive, which given how he died and how the other movies went is going to seem like stupidity for Rule of Cool rather than something they'd explain in the sequel. Again, good writers know how to deal with issues like people possibly having seen previous movies and so masking their retcons better.

    Everything being available on Disney+ does solve any of these issues because many people either won't have watched all of those before seeing that movie and/or won't WANT to watch all of those things in order to make it work. Leaving him very shadowy with some hints, like his activating a double-bladed lightsaber but with his face all in shadows, would drop hints while not making it clear that it was him until you could put him in a movie (or media) where how he survived could be made clear.
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  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by dancrilis View Post
    I am just thinking that a conversation like this (assume you have only seen the movies and I have seen/read etc a lot more).
    Peelee: Darth Maul!? Didn't he die - what is this?
    dancrilis: Yeah ... I got nothing, they might be setting something up, maybe?
    So you're saying if it had been Dooku instead, you would have said, "huh. maybe they're setting something up" and not "oh come off it, he got his head chopped off!"?

    If so, well, I'd wager that quite a bit of the audience would not follow suit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    If that's the last time you saw him, you don't have a full picture, and it's not Disney's fault because they have the full picture available for less than the ticket you just paid for.
    Indeed, they're on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"!

    Let's say Al and Betty do get Disney+. So, where do they start? Rebels? Clone Wars? Star Wars All Stars? That one sounds promising, except whoops, that's non-canon. Of course, nothing on Disney+ indicates it's non-canon. What about Droid Tales? That sounds like a great place for exposition on stuff like that. Except that's not it, and it's also non-canon. Forces of Destiny? Hell, even if you know to start at the Clone Wars, you don't even know Maul survived until four seasons in. At this point, it's not entertainment, it's homework. Sucks for Al and Betty if they just wanted to go seethe new Star Wars movie, I guess.

    Quite a few people, myself included, were consternated at the first two sentences of Ep. IX's opening crawl. But we could have heard it, for free, if we only had Fortnite and were playing it at a certain point in time, and it's not Disney's fault that the vast majority of the audience didn't take advantage of that?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-22 at 10:29 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Except that they didn't keep their promises. Rise of Skywalker shows that they are more than willing to completely ignore stuff that appears in other media. Since they completely retconned Poe's backstory.
    You're looking at this wrong. They didn't contradict Poe's New Republic Pilot backstory, they greenlit a new series of comics and books to cover how Spice Runner Poe *became* New Republic Pilot Poe.

    No, even I'm not sure if I'm joking.

  29. - Top - End - #509
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
    Except that they didn't keep their promises. Rise of Skywalker shows that they are more than willing to completely ignore stuff that appears in other media. Since they completely retconned Poe's backstory.
    Movies arnt special anymore. if anything is of lesser canon, given the critical receptiom, I would put the sequel trilogy in that category.

  30. - Top - End - #510
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    Default Re: The Great Star Wars Watchthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by Rakaydos View Post
    Movies arnt special anymore.
    The Clone Wars premier got 3.96 million viewers. 2.76 million for the finale. Solo made $393 million at the box office, with an average ticket price of $9.11, so we can guess that it got around...43.1 million viewers. Nearly 11 times the audience, and that movie was considered a flop.

    I highly doubt Disney has any illusions that the movies are no longer the main source of exposure the vast majority of the audience gets to Star Wars.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-22 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Original sounded too confrontational
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

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