Doctor Who: Just Be Kind, Fam

[The Troubadour]

YES, Doctor Who returns today! I've been enjoying Whittaker's run and I'm looking forward to the new special! I thought I'd go ahead and create a new thread for discussion, since the old seems to have been purged.

[Giggling Ghast]

Kindness? In a Doctor Who thread?

[Delicious Taffy]

Kindness? In a Doctor Who thread?

New year, new attitude? Maybe this'll be the year we see the "fandom" learn how to behave and stop taking the discussions so personally. Less vitriol, semantic one-upmanship, and violent agreement?

We can hope.

[random11]

Wait, it actually continues for a full season, or is it just an episode or two with another break?


I like the current Doctor.
Didn't like some of the episodes from the previous season, and the long break took me out since I almost forgot it exists, but I really felt Jodie Whittaker understood how to play the Doctor.

[Rynjin]

My thoughts on the last season:

Jodie acting good
Companions acting good
Writing bad
Writing worse than bad; writing forgettable.

I seriously could not remember watching most of last season's episodes just looking at the list. The only three I recall unbidden are Demons of the Punjab, The Witchfinder, and that GODAWFUL Rosa Parks episode. I needed the descriptions to recall even the vaguest plots of any of them.

I don't even remember the plot of the finale or the premiere.

I'm hoping that was "first season blues" and this season will Grow the Beard. The first season of every new showrunner have been pretty rough.

[Androgeus]

I'm hoping that was "first season blues" and this season will Grow the Beard. The first season of every new showrunner have been pretty rough.

Don’t think I agree with that, series 5 was probably Smith’s best series.

Quick ep 1 thought

Spoiler: “Series 12 Episode 1”

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very enjoyable, be interesting to see where they take the cliffhanger

[Thufir]

Spoiler: S12E1

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I wondered if e might be involved in the whole thing, because of course I was expecting a twist somewhere, but I didn't predict the actual twist. Though realistically we all knew he wouldn't stay dead for too long, because historically he never has.
The return of tissue compression! Classic.

One of the great things about Doctor Who has always been its ability to just do completely different things from episode to episode. In this instance, I thoroughly enjoyed it delving into spycraft. I also think Segun Akinola did a pretty great job emulating James Bond music going into the party and the chase scene.

[Jeivar]

Whoa Nelly!

I liked this episode a lot.

Spoiler: Spyfall 1

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*Good locations

*Good music

*Good actors

*Graham mistaken for the Doctor. It had to happen at least once.

*Like the light monsters. It's fun to see the Doctor encounter something that breaks the usual rules, and actually be caught off guard for once. Plus, they're entertainingly weird.

*And the Master?? Ehhh... so, one who came between Simm and Missy, I'm guessing? Since she supposedly died for good. And had come around to the Doctor's side.

Just one thing: "Everything you think you know is a lie."
I sure hope we're not in for large-scale retcons here. But I'm guessing this has something to do with the Timeless Child.

[Fyraltari]

Okay, I did not expect that kind of twist in ep1.
Not sure I like the performance yet, but let's see where this goes.

The episode itself was very good.

Spoiler

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Kinda sad they stick with UNIT and Torchwood being gone, though. UNIT isn't a British agency so I would expect it to still be operationnal even if its UK branch lost its funding.

Spoiler: Spyfall 1

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*And the Master?? Ehhh... so, one who came between Simm and Missy, I'm guessing? Since she supposedly died for good. And had come around to the Doctor's side.

Spoiler

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Death is for other people.
While it's possible this one is between Saxon and Missy I don't expect the Master to die for keeps.

EDIT:

Spoiler

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This:

Basically confirms that O came after Missy.

[Rodin]

Spoiler: Episode 1

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I'll put my bet in now: "Everything you think you know is a lie" means that none of what we saw actually happened. The creatures don't read on the sonic and behave in impossible ways because they aren't real. The teleportation into that weird realm looks like they're in a brain somewhere. With the episode focusing around a Google stand-in, I'm betting on the theme being how easily the truth of our reality can be manipulated.

The one thing that makes me doubt that assessment is the appearance of the Master. Casting a "fake" Master doesn't seem likely.

Very good episode overall, looking forward to the conclusion.

[Precure]

Spoiler

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Everything you think you know is a lie

Plot twist: Jodie is not the Doctor, she is the MASTER!

[random11]

Spoiler: My guess

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They are all computer generated.
The place they teleport to is the neural network, and they either lie or actually consider this to be an entirely different universe regardless of the actual location.

[Hopeless]

My Guess

Spoiler

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That scene where the car sat nav takes control and kills the driver?

It zapped only the doctor putting her in a coma where everything after is just her brain trying to figure its way back to consciousness.

Yaz replacing the being in light is to demonstrate there's something seriously wrong with what she's perceiving.

The Master being a Time Lord is telepathic and is actually trying to help save the doctor not trying to kill her which is something he has been known to do.

Also if the drums still effect him that would mean he isn't Missy's successor but a predecessor maybe what Simms turned into after he disappeared in that lift.

If he's Missy's successor then he shouldn't be effected by the Drums as that was resolved in that Gallifrey crossover.

I must admit if I'm right this would be awesome!

Well whichever way they go I hope its good!

[Thufir]

Spoiler: Spyfall Part 2

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...
Well, that's one hell of a bomb Chibnall just dropped on us.

[Rodin]

Spoiler: Spyfall Part 2

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...
Well, that's one hell of a bomb Chibnall just dropped on us Gallifrey.

Spoiler: Spyfall part 2

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Fixed that for you.

In all honesty, I can't say that I care. Gallifrey is destroyed...but no it's not, it's in a time bubble, but actually, it's in a pocket dimension...but wait, it's destroyed again!

They've had Gallifrey in some form of peril or another for so long in the new series that I'm numb to the whole thing. Especially since we don't know any of the Gallifreyans other than the Doctor and the Master.

However, I do like that they appear to be setting this up as a longer term plotline. The pilot episode was a load of nonsense, but this is Doctor Who. It's always nonsense, and this was quite entertaining nonsense. My one complaint is that the Vor side of the plot felt compressed and squeezed out by the Master. Barton and the Kassavins didn't get enough development, and as such come off as shallow monster-of-the-week villains.

[Spacewolf]

Spoiler: Spyfall part 2

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Fixed that for you.

In all honesty, I can't say that I care. Gallifrey is destroyed...but no it's not, it's in a time bubble, but actually, it's in a pocket dimension...but wait, it's destroyed again!

They've had Gallifrey in some form of peril or another for so long in the new series that I'm numb to the whole thing. Especially since we don't know any of the Gallifreyans other than the Doctor and the Master.

However, I do like that they appear to be setting this up as a longer term plotline. The pilot episode was a load of nonsense, but this is Doctor Who. It's always nonsense, and this was quite entertaining nonsense. My one complaint is that the Vor side of the plot felt compressed and squeezed out by the Master. Barton and the Kassavins didn't get enough development, and as such come off as shallow monster-of-the-week villains.

Spoiler

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It was quite a fun episode until the ending was just oh yea I've already sorted everything. Those plots arn't exactly uncommon in Dr. Who but this one felt even more pointless than usual, they could have cut the whole WW2 section and built up the 19th century parts instead so we could see how the silver lady done.

Also this timeless child stuff? Is that part of Old Who? I always thought Time lord civ was built on Rassilon and two others?

[Fyraltari]

Spoiler: Spyfall part 2

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Especially since we don't know any of the Gallifreyans other than the Doctor and the Master.

Spoiler

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Honestly it's kind of my biggest complain with modern new who that they don't use Gallifrey unless it's to break it. I'd love to have an update on Romana, Leela, the Rani, the Monk, Omega, Kan'po Rimpoche. I mean the Master, the Sisterhood of Karn and Rassilon showed up, why not the others?

Spoiler

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Also this timeless child stuff? Is that part of Old Who? I always thought Time lord civ was built on Rassilon and two others?

Spoiler

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It's not. The Timeless child was mentionned once in the Ghost Monument last season with no explanation and that's all. As far as the founding of Gallifrey goes, Classic Who states that Rassilon and Omega who perfected time travel and created much of the Time Lords' best tech but Omega fell into a black hole during an experiment (probably an attempted murder by Rassilon) And Rassilon himself went into some sort of death-like sleep until the Time War (also he has infinte regenerations). However, during the Seventh Doctor run some hints were dropped (often called the Cartmel Masterplan) that there was a third founder (dubbed The Other) who was dead but the Doctor would be his reincarnation.

Maybe Chibnall is doing this.

[Thufir]

Spoiler: Spyfall Part 2

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So, things which did bother me:

1, kind of related to the rapid resolution of everything at the end, nothing that Graham, Ryan and Yaz did actually mattered in the end. As fun as it was to watch Graham dancing in the laser shoes, it was ultimately irrelevant to the outcome of the episode because the Doctor solved everything basically by herself with a little help from Ada and Noor (though they didn't get a huge amount to do either).

2, why did the Doctor have to erase Ada and Noor's memories? It's seriously invasive and deprives them of an important part of themselves. It's something to Doctor has only tried to do in the past either to save the life of the person in question or because he was trying to remain completely unnoticed by everyone. In this episode the Doctor made a bit of a justification about knowledge of future technology, but why is that an issue for Ada and Noor when it isn't for say, Leonardo da Vinci, Winston Churchill, Pythagoras, Einstein etc?

[Droid Tony]

Spoiler: Spyfall

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It was bad. Very bad. Sure am glad the Lady Doctor has already decided to quit.

The whole spy plot was a huge waste of time. Alien spies killing Earth spies? Er, ok, why? Does the show ever say? And if they are ''spies" why do they glow like light bulbs and kill people?
)
And then ''The Master"...oh sure HE is back (wonder why we did not get a evil woman master?) And the Master comes back....er...for no reason except to just kill the Doctor? Sigh.

Wow was the plane ride dumb....pretend to kill the folks and then ''oh look the Doctor saved them".

And the planet of the long green hoses?

Oh, and sure had to drop in a ''great" woman from history for the lady doc to act all silly.

I did not watch the last season past the ''they go to the hospital ship", but guess they never got to the Timeless Child?

Gee sounds like the Master is saying that this show will Utterly Wipe Away all ''timelord" stuff and history and then replace it with some "truth". Like they will be Time People (''not lords") and will all be women or ruled by women or something like that. Oh well, guess they can just fix it all with the Next Doctor.

[Androgeus]

Sure am glad the Lady Doctor has already decided to quit.

You may want to check your sources.

[ImperiousLeader]

No spoilers, just really happy to have the Doctor back, and with a solid return.

[The Troubadour]

I haven't seen either episode yet, but the internet's already spoiled for me what I assume to be a big twist regarding the antagonist's identity. :-(

Kindness? In a Doctor Who thread?

The thread title is actually a reference both to my favourite moment in Twelve's run and to Thirteen's propensity for "How do you do, fellow kids?" moments. :-)

[Droid Tony]

You may want to check your sources.

Why? She is leaving the show right? Or do you mean The Lady Doctor will regenerate into another Woman?

[Androgeus]

Why? She is leaving the show right? Or do you mean The Lady Doctor will regenerate into another Woman?

She isn’t leaving the show.

[Kitten Champion]

I enjoyed the two-parter. It did a good job exemplifying what Doctor Who is as a series without... overcomplicating it and slapping the audience in the face with generations of continuity. Which is something of a pet peeve of mine in watching much of the new series, it's been very up it's own butt.

I'm just disappointed Stephen Fry's role ended so fast. I would have loved to have seen him as a periodically appearing Time Lord or maybe the new Prime Minister character who will inevitably be killed by Picasso cyborg aliens or whatever, something like that.

[random11]

Overall, I enjoyed the double episode as a casual episode.

However, it did feel like it's ALMOST trying to do something better, and then avoiding it.

Spoiler

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It ALMOST had an important message about the misuse of information in out era, but the use of alien motives instead of human greed and actual misuses of this information made it feel more unreal than it actually is.

The use of real women from history was good, and I do appreciate it, it's just that they never really DID anything other than mention of their names.

As mentioned by others, it's nice that the side characters are doing fun things, but it's a lot better if they actually contribute anything to the advancement of the plot, even if it's just simple moral support to the Doctor.

Regarding the use of the Master, it was more overused with previous doctors, but some writers think that if there isn't a mention of the Master, Cybermen, or Daleks, we won't be able to get that this is the Doctor, as if the sonic screwdriver, Tardis and freaking time-travel story isn't enough...

And as a more general note, with this show I'm less concerned with moral inconsistencies like wiping memory in one episode and avoiding it in another.
The stories are written by different people, with different views about how the Doctor should behave, and different levels of caring regarding a specific action.

[Rynjin]

I enjoyed it, but it could have stood to either be a 3 parter to expand on the plot more, or cut out the silly spy stuff from the first episode.

Overall it was FUN, but seemed like it tried to do too much in too little time; all the actual plot was haphazardly crammed in the last half of the second episode.

Definitely a stronger start than last season. I think you could play the season 11 premiere, followed by this, and nobody would bat an eye; nothing of consequence happened the entire previous season in terms of character arc.

[The Troubadour]

Definitely a stronger start than last season. I think you could play the season 11 premiere, followed by this, and nobody would bat an eye; nothing of consequence happened the entire previous season in terms of character arc.

We did have Ryan improving his relationship with Graham, though.

[Rodin]

We did have Ryan improving his relationship with Graham, though.

Also Graham getting over the death of his wife.

Yaz didn't get enough development, but other than that I was reasonably happy with the character arcs. The problem was the lack of a main plot. Looks like they're correcting that this season.

[Aotrs Commander]

Just watched the double-part opener.

See, there now, Doctor Who, that wasn't so hard was it? That was fine! You even started a new plot arc!

Spoiler

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And brought the Master back! He did a good job, as well! I only twigged a minute or so before he admitted it!

Also, the matter compression! Ahahaha! Nice.


(I bet Lenny Henry had a right old laugh, though, getting to be the villain AND shoot people. And he did so so well, too!)



I mean, I was a bit eyeglow-roll-y at throwing Gallifrey under the bus AGAIN, but at least they didn't spin out Whodunnit (aha), just Whydunnit.

More of this and the special, less of last season, please. The Doctor is fine (I love she keeps forgetting momentarily she's a female, I mean you would after a thousand plus years (a billion if you count Heaven Sent)), the companions are fine, you just needed something more than "lookit, history" and stuff for a story and you're golden. Keep it up, folks.