Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

[Metastachydium]

You internet people and your feet pics....

I mean, how else am I supposed to understand the anatomical specifics of animal appendages?

[Peelee]

I mean, how else am I supposed to understand the anatomical specifics of animal appendages?

I thought planties were good at osmosis.

[Metastachydium]

I thought planties were good at osmosis.

Not that kind of osmosis, sadly. (And I'm NOT absorbing other people's feet, thank you very much.)

[ZhonLord]

So... I've never actually heard the complete Oh Danny Boy before. I've only heard a couple quick snippets referenced here and there in places like courage the cowardly dog.

So today I came across Elan's eulogy song for Roy again, and actually listened to the song in full for the first time while reading the altered lyrics. And.... Holy crap, I can see why even Belkar was moved by the song - corny lyrics or not, that's absolutely beautiful. It's one of those things that make you realize: oh, yeah, Elan actually IS a powerful bard!

[littlebum2002]

So... I've never actually heard the complete Oh Danny Boy before. I've only heard a couple quick snippets referenced here and there in places like courage the cowardly dog.

So today I came across Elan's eulogy song for Roy again, and actually listened to the song in full for the first time while reading the altered lyrics. And.... Holy crap, I can see why even Belkar was moved by the song - corny lyrics or not, that's absolutely beautiful. It's one of those things that make you realize: oh, yeah, Elan actually IS a powerful bard!

Someone actually sang Elan's version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYLNj0KXcE&t=70s

Also, it's important to point out how incredibly high level the Order is. It's entirely possible that Elan is one of the highest level bards on the planet.

[Ruck]

Someone actually sang Elan's version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCYLNj0KXcE&t=70s

Also, it's important to point out how incredibly high level the Order is. It's entirely possible that Elan is one of the highest level bards on the planet.

Why, he's a certified bardic genius!

[danielxcutter]

There’s a very good chance Elan is the highest level bard on the planet actually!

[drDunkel]

There’s a very good chance Elan is the highest level bard on the planet actually!

...and why not lowest level? I mean, is that not what the trope is all about?

[Beni-Kujaku]

...and why not lowest level? I mean, is that not what the trope is all about?

... What? No, the trope is that protagonists start as the weakest in their respective fields, but eventually rise to the top, and Elan definitely did that already.

[littlebum2002]

Why, he's a certified bardic genius!

LOL that's the comic that made me realize it actually. Since the Order is usually fighting people at or above their level, I think it can easily be forgotten that the people they are fighting are some of the ONLY people at or above their level. Most adventurers in the world aren't going to survive to make it to level 16. So when a "normal" person like Thirden meets them, it's like meeting a superhero. Sure, there may be another group of near-epic adventurers who decided to retire like the Vector Legion did, there aren't going to be that many. If there are any bards that are more of a "bardic genius" than Elan, they are few and far between and staying out of the limelight.

[Peelee]

LOL that's the comic that made me realize it actually. Since the Order is usually fighting people at or above their level, I think it can easily be forgotten that the people they are fighting are some of the ONLY people at or above their level. Most adventurers in the world aren't going to survive to make it to level 16. So when a "normal" person like Thirden meets them, it's like meeting a superhero.

Both of those bards are at least 12th level.

[ZhonLord]

That's a very good point. After all, to quote Belkar: "you wanna ***** out and sound the alarm? Sure, whatever. I mean, that bell got rung when a billion hobgoblins stomped on hinjo's face. I don't hear the cavalry yet."

[danielxcutter]

Both of those bards are at least 12th level.

Yeah, but Thirden is at least middle-aged for a dwarf by now and Elan has at least a few levels on him.

[Peelee]

Yeah, but Thirden is at least middle-aged for a dwarf by now and Elan has at least a few levels on him.

And Thirden dropped out of bars college and went into mining for a while instead while Elan picked it up as soon as he was able.

[Fyraltari]

And Thirden dropped out of bars college and went into mining for a while instead while Elan picked it up as soon as he was able.

You say that like dropping bars isn't something bards do.

[danielxcutter]

Well they probably go to bars a lot.

Oh wait they're called taverns in fantasy settings, my bad.

[littlebum2002]

Both of those bards are at least 12th level.

Yeah but in this setting there seems to be a pretty big gulf between 12th Level and 16th Level. We have seen very few characters with levels that high, and all the ones that do are pretty darn powerful (Vector Legion, Order of the Scribble, and everyone's Personal Rivals). Elan was 12th level before the Battle for Azure City even took place. The amount of fighting he has been in between then and now is impressively high, and I would bet that few adventurers survive all of that.

[Peelee]

Yeah but in this setting there seems to be a pretty big gulf between 12th Level and 16th Level. We have seen very few characters with levels that high, and all the ones that do are pretty darn powerful (Vector Legion, Order of the Scribble, and everyone's Personal Rivals). Elan was 12th level before the Battle for Azure City even took place. The amount of fighting he has been in between then and now is impressively high, and I would bet that few adventurers survive all of that.

I'm not saying that he's the equivalent of a 16th level character, I'm just pointing out that he's far from low-level himself. Keep in mind that Azure City's military, the people whose job was to fight, had a severe lack of people above level 3. Sure, not many peopld get to 16th, but 12th isn't exactly common either.

Saying Thirden is a "normal" person in awe at meeting Elan is like saying he's a "normal" person meeting a billionaire and being in awe of his money. Sure, the billionaire is significantly more wealthy, but Thirden in this analogy has a hundred million dollars and is being compared to the average working Joe.

ETA: And lest we forget, we don't actually know his level. 12 is the floor.

[ZhonLord]

I feel like this should be a separate thread at this point, I was not expecting to unleash such a storm with my never-noticed lol.

[Metastachydium]

Well they probably go to bars a lot.

…but only before they Cross the Bar.

[littlebum2002]

I'm not saying that he's the equivalent of a 16th level character, I'm just pointing out that he's far from low-level himself. Keep in mind that Azure City's military, the people whose job was to fight, had a severe lack of people above level 3. Sure, not many peopld get to 16th, but 12th isn't exactly common either.

Saying Thirden is a "normal" person in awe at meeting Elan is like saying he's a "normal" person meeting a billionaire and being in awe of his money. Sure, the billionaire is significantly more wealthy, but Thirden in this analogy has a hundred million dollars and is being compared to the average working Joe.

ETA: And lest we forget, we don't actually know his level. 12 is the floor.

Oh OK I gotcha. Yeah, he's not a "normal" bard, he's a very powerful bard but he's meeting one of the greatest bards in the world. It's more like being the fastest 100m dash runner in your country and meeting Usain Bolt.

[Peelee]

Oh OK I gotcha. Yeah, he's not a "normal" bard, he's a very powerful bard but he's meeting one of the greatest bards in the world. It's more like being the fastest 100m dash runner in your country and meeting Usain Bolt.

Now we can get into the "one of the fastest bards in the world" bit. There may be epic level bards or 20th level bards already. Sure, not many, hardly any, but a dozen or so would be plenty to put Elan in the "not Usain Bolt" camp, and in an entire world, that is a frighteningly small number.

[Crusher]

Now we can get into the "one of the fastest bards in the world" bit. There may be epic level bards or 20th level bards already. Sure, not many, hardly any, but a dozen or so would be plenty to put Elan in the "not Usain Bolt" camp, and in an entire world, that is a frighteningly small number.

In the interests of accurately splitting the hair, perhaps Elan is the Trayvon Bromwell of his world.

Edit - Just to clarify, Bromwell is arguably the fastest of kind of the next generation of great sprinters. He's starting to show up on the lower part of the league table of all-time greats, but he hasn't been around long enough to really prove himself yet and has been a little inconsistent. He's got the 6th fastest 100M of all time, yet failed to make the Olympic finals because he botched his semi-final heat. If you follow track and field closely, you'd know who he is, but he isn't famous enough to have any awareness among the general public yet.

[Metastachydium]

Now we can get into the "one of the fastest bards in the world" bit.

He has a 30' per round movement rate (that's a 15' base land speed!). That can't be him!

In the interests of accurately splitting the hair, perhaps Elan is the Trayvon Bromwell of his world.

Edit - Just to clarify, Bromwell is arguably the fastest of kind of the next generation of great sprinters. He's starting to show up on the lower part of the league table of all-time greats, but he hasn't been around long enough to really prove himself yet and has been a little inconsistent. He's got the 6th fastest 100M of all time, yet failed to make the Olympic finals because he botched his semi-final heat. If you follow track and field closely, you'd know who he is, but he isn't famous enough to have any awareness among the general public yet.

Hey, that's a pretty neat analogy there.

[littlebum2002]

Now we can get into the "one of the fastest bards in the world" bit. There may be epic level bards or 20th level bards already. Sure, not many, hardly any, but a dozen or so would be plenty to put Elan in the "not Usain Bolt" camp, and in an entire world, that is a frighteningly small number.

I believe that Elan is the most powerful (active) bard in the world and nothing will change my mind about that

[Crusher]

I believe that Elan is the most powerful (active) bard in the world and nothing will change my mind about that

What if someone gives you a cookie? Like, a really good one.

[ZhonLord]

You know... It didn't really sink in before about Eugene being the last oath spirit left. What would happen to him if xykon doesn't get destroyed? Say, he bails out like Hilgya is planning to, heads to his astral fortress and survives the end of the world? What'll happen to Eugene then? Will he be stuck waiting for an eon until the next creation then pester someone there to go after a resurging xykon? Will he be stuck in limbo forever because xykon will be too powerful for anyone in the new world to stop him? Or do the gods have contingencies for cases like his in the event of a snarl reset? Eugene's future is extremely shaky right now.

(And yes, I'm aware this is a moot point if xykon leaves without his phylactery thanks to Redcloak pulling a switcheroo)

[Metastachydium]

You know... It didn't really sink in before about Eugene being the last oath spirit left. What would happen to him if xykon doesn't get destroyed? Say, he bails out like Hilgya is planning to, heads to his astral fortress and survives the end of the world? What'll happen to Eugene then? Will he be stuck waiting for an eon until the next creation then pester someone there to go after a resurging xykon? Will he be stuck in limbo forever because xykon will be too powerful for anyone in the new world to stop him? Or do the gods have contingencies for cases like his in the event of a snarl reset? Eugene's future is extremely shaky right now.

Well, with all the mindwiping that comes with rebooting worlds, I'm not sure he would know who he is or why he's even there afterwards and the gods would likely sweep him under some kind of rug to keep him out of sight.

[Mike Havran]

You know... It didn't really sink in before about Eugene being the last oath spirit left. What would happen to him if xykon doesn't get destroyed? Say, he bails out like Hilgya is planning to, heads to his astral fortress and survives the end of the world? What'll happen to Eugene then? Will he be stuck waiting for an eon until the next creation then pester someone there to go after a resurging xykon? Will he be stuck in limbo forever because xykon will be too powerful for anyone in the new world to stop him? Or do the gods have contingencies for cases like his in the event of a snarl reset? Eugene's future is extremely shaky right now.

(And yes, I'm aware this is a moot point if xykon leaves without his phylactery thanks to Redcloak pulling a switcheroo)

Seems like a good Patreon question. I think that if Eugene gets mind-wiped (which he might not, since he's technically not an Outsider), the entire Blood Oath becomes pointless and he might as well proceed into the afterlife.

[Coppercloud]

I don't think Hilgya's plan can work at all. If it could, there would be other high-level characters from previous worlds (or their descendants) hanging around in the outer planes or even planeshifting back to Stick world. Come to think of it, that could explain how Fruit Pie the sorcerer ended up in Dorukan's fortress, but it raises way more questions that it answers. It seems safer to assume the gods have some sort of contingency measure in place.

On a more general level, my personal take about leftover oathspirits is that blood oaths or similar rituals are about killing a foe (or destroying them, for pedantic wizards). At least, that's what the standard tattoo procedure shown in Start of Darkness seems to suggest. The only other example that we have is Violet, whose descendant had to sunder a cursed sword.

As Roy points out, if the world ends in a way or another, all blood oaths are technically fulfilled. Therefore, any remaining oathspirits would be allowed into the afterlife. Probably Mechanus for Eugene, as he doesn't strike me as "good", plus I think filling paperwork until he's bored out of his immortal mind would be pretty fitting.

I do wonder whether he really is the last oathspirit or not. Maybe the devas were so pissed at Eugene that they separated him from the others without telling him (it's not like there are any landmarks to help him find his bearings in this demiplane). He did bind and gag Tony, after all.

On a semi-related note, I never noticed Roy's plan with his archon was still pending.