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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    So what if it’s rare? There are people who won the lottery twice or got struck by lightning a dozen times (including lightning strikes on their graves).
    "Rare things can happen" does not equate to "this specific rare thing has happened here." People have totally won the lottery twice. My neighbor Bob who just bought a Corvette probably did not win the lottery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Also I refer you to Vaarsuvius’s assessment of the relationship between probability and drama.
    And if there were any drama that revolved around demigods from prior worlds being able to survive to this world but so few had joined that there is still a relatively small pool but also are incredibly rare (arguably one of the rarest things to happen to a mortal in Stickworld) but more than one mortal ascended to godhood or demigodhood in this story, then yes, I would agree with you. But I would be flabbergasted if that was the case. "Mortals who rise to demigodhood being a rare case but also being able to be selected by pantheons when it suits them and they may or may not survive into other worlds once the Snarl breaks free but this specific one is so important the gods decided to incorporate him" is needlessly complex. "Mortals who rise to demigodhood don't survive the jump" is significantly simpler. Neither one has any more impact on the story than the other, neither one services drama more than the other, neither one is sheds any more relevant light on the story that the other, so why not pick the simpler one?
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-05-04 at 01:28 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    It's been discussed in the MitD thread, yes. Jury's still out on whether it is a clue or not though.
    Fortunately this thread isn't called "Things no one noticed before". It would probably be much shorter if that was the case.
    A "Things no one noticed before" thread would have a bunch of people posting things that they hadn't noticed before, and that they also hadn't noticed anyone else had noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    I'm trying to find a source for this, but I got the sense that being part of a pantheon helps a lot with having the faith energy necessary to survive transition.

    (FWIW, I think Dvalin ascended during this world's existence, and the elven gods predate it.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    You may be thinking of this early strip.

    Grey Wolf
    You may also be thinking of Thor's words in the bottom-left panel of this more recent strip: "He hasn't been around long enough and hasn't had the followers of a whole pantheon believing in him."


    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    They could indeed. But then why are there so few demigods? Given the uncountable worlds that have existed, even if only one in a million got a mortal to become a demigod, that would still work out to thousands, if not millions, of potential demigods variously. The two simplest answers to this are:
    A.) apotheosis even to demigod state is so rare that it's practically unheard of - an answer which also assumes that Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves, who swore an oath to always abide by the will of the council.... wasn't, and didn't, which I am not a fan of - or
    2.) demigods don't survive the transition to the new world.
    That's a good point, and it makes the whole "Dvalin survived multiple worlds but doesn't remember doing so" even less likely, but still technically possible (as far as I can tell).

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    That's a good point, and it makes the whole "Dvalin survived multiple worlds but doesn't remember doing so" even less likely, but still technically possible (as far as I can tell).
    That said, there's a point where "still technically possible" isn't really relevant. "A one in a million chance is almost guaranteed" doesn't quite apply when there's no value in having it be applied.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Not to mention he's the first king of the dwarves, so they presumably have a list going back to him.
    We have lists of kings going back to fictional kings in the real world.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    We have lists of kings going back to fictional kings in the real world.
    We don't have creatures that can live thousands of years, or immortal beings, or magical spells that can reveal information, or divine beings, all of which can be used to verify the information is factual in the real world.

    Stickworld does.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-05-06 at 09:53 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #126

    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Nothing says those divine beings can't lie their beards off. Or that the data isn't baked into the world at creation.

  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Nothing says those divine beings can't lie their beards off. Or that the data isn't baked into the world at creation.
    The Lawful ones must act lawfully, at the very least. And it's not like they're the only ones available; long-lived creatures, immortal creatures, and magical spells to verify also exist. Just as a quick example, Legend Lore is a core spell.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-05-06 at 11:04 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #128

    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Well if that's the case, Durkon should've just asked for the full download on the Gates and Rifts the day after they heard about them from Soon.

    Lawful doesn't mean honest. And Legend Lore is just going to give you the results baked in by metaphysics, which again brings us back to how the gods set it up when they created the world.

    Really, "don't know" is about as good as we can do for anything where the possibilities stretch too far back. Which is kind of nice, as it gives us something to discuss while Rich polishes the next strip.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Well if that's the case, Durkon should've just asked for the full download on the Gates and Rifts the day after they heard about them from Soon.
    Given how excited Thor was to toss the blackout rules aside for Minrah on the smallest bit of info she had, yeah, Durkon probably could have.

    ETA: Further, there are more divine beings than just the gods, and those do not know about the Snarl and comms blackout policy and would have no reason to hamstring a question about royal lines of succession.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-05-06 at 11:46 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Well if that's the case, Durkon should've just asked for the full download on the Gates and Rifts the day after they heard about them from Soon.
    Hmm...I wonder when Durkon figured out Thor doesn't respond to commune.
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  11. - Top - End - #131

    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    ETA: Further, there are more divine beings than just the gods, and those do not know about the Snarl and comms blackout policy and would have no reason to hamstring a question about royal lines of succession.
    And they get mindwiped every reboot, so all they know is what was designed into the world when it was built. So if the gods build the world with a thousand year old line of kings of the dwarves starting with Dvalin, that's what they know.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    And they get mindwiped every reboot, so all they know is what was designed into the world when it was built. So if the gods build the world with a thousand year old line of kings of the dwarves starting with Dvalin, that's what they know.
    IIRC, they seem to know when the world started, so having a pre-history built in would be...weird, to say the least.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  13. - Top - End - #133

    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Everything about this is weird. And I love it. Most people's worldbuilding is pretty bland.

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Everything about this is weird. And I love it. Most people's worldbuilding is pretty bland.
    Totally fair. I also can't seem to find where I got the idea that the initial inhabitants knew they were the first ones, that just might be how I imagined the world right after creation.
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  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Today I realized that Durkon's middle name (Allotrope) is connected to his eventual vampirism.

    Two states, made of the same base components, but two very different functions.

  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Just realized that - sorry can't post links from phone -

    Tarquin's opinion on Bards in strip 821 was already mentioned waaaaaaay back in strip 50

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlashDash View Post
    Just realized that - sorry can't post links from phone -

    Tarquin's opinion on Bards in strip 821 was already mentioned waaaaaaay back in strip 50
    That's ok, I can help!

    Tarquin's opinion on Bards in strip 821 was already mentioned waaaaaaay back in strip 50
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  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Thanks to SlashDash and Peelee I just noticed that the the strip numbering for strip 50 has a nice little comment on the number itself.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Here, Celia mentions Dorukan has disappeared (aka died) 6 months ago (which also matches SOD's time stamp). And here Celia mentions the Cloister disappears and reappears with Xykon, but doesn't mention any breaks in between. (and Xykon couldn't have casted it after Celia departed the Dungeon, since Azure City was able to scry on the Order).

    So, is it inferrable that Xykon's maximum level is ~26 weeks, or 26-27th level? This number also matches some of Xykon's higher-end level calculations.

  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Here, Celia mentions Dorukan has disappeared (aka died) 6 months ago (which also matches SOD's time stamp). And here Celia mentions the Cloister disappears and reappears with Xykon, but doesn't mention any breaks in between. (and Xykon couldn't have casted it after Celia departed the Dungeon, since Azure City was able to scry on the Order).

    So, is it inferrable that Xykon's maximum level is ~26 weeks, or 26-27th level? This number also matches some of Xykon's higher-end level calculations.
    Not really, Xykon moved into the dungeon pretty much immediately after killing Dorukan per Start of Darkness. Maybe it took a while before Celia noticed him and his minions.
    Keep in mind that Celia's first appearance predates the Snarl plot, so any inconsistencies with later stories do not necessarily have a deeper meaning.

  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quebbster View Post
    Not really, Xykon moved into the dungeon pretty much immediately after killing Dorukan per Start of Darkness. Maybe it took a while before Celia noticed him and his minions.
    Keep in mind that Celia's first appearance predates the Snarl plot, so any inconsistencies with later stories do not necessarily have a deeper meaning.
    EDIT: Whoops, I think I thought it out wrong. Assuming he doesn't renew the spell during his reign in the Dungeon, Xykon would be a minimum(?) of 26-27.

    At the same time, I can't find a reason why Xykon would wait, say, any interval of time after mastering an epic spell. Does the SRD mention a minimum amount of time a sorcerer can learn an epic spell?
    Last edited by understatement; 2020-06-06 at 01:32 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    That doesn't give any clear level, we don't know if Xykon ever recast the spell or how long it took for Xykon to master, it just says that happened after the six month mark.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schroeswald View Post
    I recognize that Conservation of Detail is Overrated, but I find the event that I am using as evidence for my theory above important enough/given enough focus to qualify for what I call Elan’s Exception, “Who wastes perfectly good foreshadowing like that?”. Also I have never correctly predicted any event in any piece of media so take this theory with a grain of salt (I call this Peelee’s Ye Old Reminder).

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    (stuff about the Cloister, ~26 weeks duration)
    Where do you get the idea that the Cloister ended 26 weeks after Xykon's casting?

    edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    EDIT: Whoops, I think I thought it out wrong. Assuming he doesn't renew the spell during his reign in the Dungeon, Xykon would be a minimum(?) of 26-27.
    Where do you get the idea that the cloister didn't end at that time?
    Last edited by Dentarthur; 2020-06-06 at 03:24 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dentarthur View Post
    Where do you get the idea that the Cloister ended 26 weeks after Xykon's casting?

    Where do you get the idea that the cloister didn't end at that time?
    I misspoke. I meant minimum.

    Although I think the Cloister ended becase Azure City was able to scry on the wreckage. I don't know if Xykon's destruction means the spell ends or not. If not, then I revise back to the maximum of 26. Cloister definitely 'ended' by the time the Order is at Azure City, because Celia is able to be reached with a multiplanar call.

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    I misspoke. I meant minimum.

    Although I think the Cloister ended becase Azure City was able to scry on the wreckage. I don't know if Xykon's destruction means the spell ends or not. If not, then I revise back to the maximum of 26. Cloister definitely 'ended' by the time the Order is at Azure City, because Celia is able to be reached with a multiplanar call.
    Given that it was described as suddenly vanishing and then reappearing when Xykon cast it (which suggests it completely vanished when Dorukan died...or that he died just a few weeks before he would have had to recast it, which seems unlikely), I'd assume Xykon's destruction ended Cloister as well.
    An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.

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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Yeah, the Cloister definitely ended with Xykon's destruction, as it had earlier with Dorukan's. There's no data to be gleaned here regarding anyone's caster level.

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    I assumed the spell would last, since Xykon is still technically 'alive'.

  28. - Top - End - #148

    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Technically Dorukan is still alive, since his soul is trapped in a small black gem instead of in the afterlife.

  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Doing a re-read of Utterly Dwarfed, and I noticed on page 983 that Durkon refers to 'Thursday school'. The word Thursday is said to come from an Old English variant of 'Thor's Day' - so a bit of an equivalent of Sunday School, but showing how it's different to the Christian idea. It's a tiny little detail, but I think it's a fun worldbuilding aspect that highlights just how ingrained worship was in Durkon's life.
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  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltamire View Post
    Doing a re-read of Utterly Dwarfed, and I noticed on page 983 that Durkon refers to 'Thursday school'. The word Thursday is said to come from an Old English variant of 'Thor's Day' - so a bit of an equivalent of Sunday School, but showing how it's different to the Christian idea. It's a tiny little detail, but I think it's a fun worldbuilding aspect that highlights just how ingrained worship was in Durkon's life.
    And the holy day of Odin worshippers is Wednesday (page 2, panel 2)

    {scrubbed}
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-06-09 at 12:01 PM.

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