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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Phew, finally decided to buy a pdf of OOPCs. Yup, I'm 15 years late. I'll just comment on a few details here:

    Spoiler: OOPCs
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    *Redcloak's intro was surprisingly wordy.
    *Bozz(a)k calling Haley "baby" was definitely a reaction.
    *Eugene's a lot more 'nicer' than what the comic shows him (being dead does that to you).
    *The Blood Oath scenes match SOD!
    *Roy and Durkon's friendship is eternal.
    *Aarindarius uses Bixby's instead of Bugsby.
    *Several of the OOTS avatars came from here -- or is it the other way around?
    *The Order really could've needed Buffy.
    *Or Psteve.
    *Elan's reaction to being hired is really damn sweet.


  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Eh, to judge from the Dungeon magazine continuity Psteve probably would have psucked.
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    There is nothing more emblematic of this forum than three or four pages of debate between people who, as it turns out, pretty much agree with each other.


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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Eh, to judge from the Dungeon magazine continuity Psteve probably would have psucked.
    Also in the running were Peter, Pjoe, Penny, and Paul
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    The D&D 3.5 rules about potions say that a potion vial is a stoppered glass or ceramic bottle "no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high" that holds 1 ounce of liquid. That's physically implausible. Maybe that's part of why potions are magical.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    The D&D 3.5 rules about potions say that a potion vial is a stoppered glass or ceramic bottle "no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high" that holds 1 ounce of liquid. That's physically implausible. Maybe that's part of why potions are magical.
    The bottles are bigger on the inside.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    The D&D 3.5 rules about potions say that a potion vial is a stoppered glass or ceramic bottle "no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high" that holds 1 ounce of liquid. That's physically implausible. Maybe that's part of why potions are magical.
    ...Explain.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    ...Explain.
    Let's assume a configuration that maximises internal volume for those parameters: a cylindrical bottle (shaped like a soda can) two UoM tall and one UoM in diameter has an internal volume of 1.57 cubic UoM - cubic inches, in this case. Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves, presumably. Getting 1.8 unit of measures into a vessel with 1.57 units of internal volume tends towards the tricky side.

    That said, maybe every magic potion is (eyeballing) 30% denser than water, and thus their ounce volume is lower than water's?

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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Or, for a visual representation, this is bigger than a potion bottle:

    Spoiler: Top Diameter: 2 Inches. Bottom Diameter: 1 3/8 Inches. Height: 2 3/8 Inches. Capacity: 1.5 oz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves
    It's not that Americans hate themselves, it's that Americans hate other Americans. Take that, Americans!
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves, presumably.
    Aha! So a (US) fluid ounce is the volume of an ounce of water, approx 1.805 cubic inches....
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves, presumably.
    Aha! So a (US) fluid ounce is the volume of an ounce of water, approx 1.805 cubic inches....
    So you're telling me than an ounce of water in US customary units is 1.80469 cubic inches? This would be so much better if I could easily find ridiculously more precise sigs. Alas.
    Quote Originally Posted by truemane
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, 1 ml (of water) = 1 cubic cm. By definition. Making this kind of calculation so much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    ...Explain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Let's assume a configuration that maximises internal volume for those parameters: a cylindrical bottle (shaped like a soda can) two UoM tall and one UoM in diameter has an internal volume of 1.57 cubic UoM - cubic inches, in this case.
    I'm not following that. A cylinder 2 inches high and 1 inch wide has a volume of 6.28 cubic inches, or 3.62 fluid ounces ... doesn't it? Even assuming thick walls and some space taken up by the stopper, there's still enough room for 1 fluid ounce of liquid.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    A cylinder 2 inches high and 1 inch wide has a volume of 6.28 cubic inches....
    One-inch wide is the diameter, the radius that goes into the formula for area (and volume) is half of that.
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Yeah, it's many years since I did any geometry. I was multiplying 2x the circumference of the circle, rather than 2x the surface area.

    Still, a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.
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  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.
    A square bottle is more than one inch wide - it is 1.41 inches at its widest point (the diagonals). The RAW given above is "no more than 1 inch wide".

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    So you're telling me than an ounce of water in US customary units is 1.80469 cubic inches?
    Well....

    • A US gallon is defined as 231 cubic inches.
    • There are four quarts in a gallon, so a quart is exactly 57.75 cubic inches.
    • There are two pints in a quart, so a pint is exactly 28.875 cubic inches.
    • There are two cups in a pint, so a cup is exactly 14.4375 cubic inches.
    • There are eight fluid ounces in a cup, so a fluid ounce is exactly 1.8046875 cubic inches.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    Still, a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.
    Yeah; I'm fairly sure the "do numbers that resemble sense" editing pass came up with something along those lines, and then the "make it sound cool" editing pass changed it to a cylindrical shape without considering what that did to the numbers; as much as the books love their whole numbers, they tend to round correctly. Either that, or this was some really sad attempt to imply potions are denser than water.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Well....

    • A US gallon is defined as 231 cubic inches.
    • There are four quarts in a gallon, so a quart is exactly 57.75 cubic inches.
    • There are two pints in a quart, so a pint is exactly 28.875 cubic inches.
    • There are two cups in a pint, so a cup is exactly 14.4375 cubic inches.
    • There are eight fluid ounces in a cup, so a fluid ounce is exactly 1.8046875 cubic inches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Yeah; I'm fairly sure the "do numbers that resemble sense" editing pass came up with something along those lines, and then the "make it sound cool" editing pass changed it to a cylindrical shape without considering what that did to the numbers; as much as the books love their whole numbers, they tend to round correctly. Either that, or this was some really sad attempt to imply potions are denser than water.
    I kind of glossed over those numbers, so I never really thought of a potion bottle being effectively a shotglass; i always just kind of figured they were roughly the size drawn in OOTS, ish. Though for that small size, rectangular/boxy bottles would be much better, IMO.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Miel View Post
    Still, a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.
    That doesn't leave much room for the sides. That would be ten square inches (including the top), which would be less than a fiftieth of an inch thick. That seems perilously fragile.

    On the other hand, the goods and services section describes vials as being three inches high. That sounds much more feasible.
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  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    I’m to lazy to try and figure out how much that makes in sensible units but it seems to me (based on the dragon’s graphic) that the people who wrote this weren’t thinking ‘potion bottle’ but ‘potion vial’.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
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    I'll take that bet.

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    You Americans sure are a contentious people.
    You've just made an enemy for life.
    Quote Originally Posted by truemane
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I’m to lazy to try and figure out how much that makes in sensible units
    I hear that from a lot of metric proponents.
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    I'm not from South Central Los ****ing Angeles. I didn't come here to travel twenty miles per hour in a drive-by. I want a normal unit for a normal person.

    No points to whoever gets the reference; your reward is the joy in having seen that movie.
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    And your point is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    I’m to lazy to try and figure out how much that makes in sensible units
    I hear that from a lot of metric proponents.
    And your point is?
    Pretty much what I posted: that I hear that from a lot of metric proponents, and that Google will convert a measure with negligible effort. Google doesn't really advertise that it'll convert units straight from the search bar, both to and from metric, and it's a real time saver.
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Pretty much what I posted: that I hear that from a lot of metric proponents, and that Google will convert a measure with negligible effort. Google doesn't really advertise that it'll convert units straight from the search bar, both to and from metric, and it's a real time saver.
    First off, in general **** Google.

    Second off, I precisely said I was too lazy to look up what it mapped to. But, that's the core point here, Peelee had already given a visual representation so I didn't need to. Because frankly knowing the exact measurement would not have helped in the least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    It's not that Americans hate themselves, it's that Americans hate other Americans. Take that, Americans!
    Specifically, the raw materials suppliers hate the Engineers and Scientists.

    Or maybe we just hate being told what to do by non-Americans, regardless of how sensible it might be. "You can't tell us what to do, SI! Who cares that it cost us a multi-billion125-million-dollar Mars probe? Who cares that Engineering and Science students want to tear out their hair when they start learning about derived units and unit conversions? We don't! So butt out, SI!"

    But I'm not bitter.
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2020-06-19 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Lost probe was only $125,000,000
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  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Specifically, the raw materials suppliers hate the Engineers and Scientists.

    Or maybe we just hate being told what to do by non-Americans, regardless of how sensible it might be. "You can't tell us what to do, SI! Who cares that it cost us a multi-billion-dollar Mars probe? Who cares that Engineering and Science students want to tear out their hair when they start learning about derived units and unit conversions? We don't! So butt out, SI!"

    But I'm not bitter.
    Depends on the kind of engineer. US customary units are much easier to use when it comes to fractions, as they tend to be easily divisible by more numbers, so for most common engineering, it actually works quite well. Which is not to say I wouldn't mind if we swapped all over to metric and left USCU for the applications that actually use it effectively.
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  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    Specifically, the raw materials suppliers hate the Engineers and Scientists.

    Or maybe we just hate being told what to do by non-Americans, regardless of how sensible it might be. "You can't tell us what to do, SI! Who cares that it cost us a multi-billion125-million-dollar Mars probe? Who cares that Engineering and Science students want to tear out their hair when they start learning about derived units and unit conversions? We don't! So butt out, SI!"

    But I'm not bitter.
    Personally, I think preferred units are a matter of culture, as well as of measure. Units are as important as the number they're associated with, and the people using them; and unit conversion is cultural acceptance given technical form: The idea that other people's thoughts and words are no less valuable solely for being made along different lines than your own, even if you don't understand why they're different; and with a little effort you can still understand what they're saying, and it's worthwhile. Like you say, an eighth-of-a-billion-dollar Mars probe was lost because some people only looked at the numbers and just assumed their units were the only one that could matter; and that was an incident that only cost dollars instead of lives.
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    Default Re: Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Personally, I think preferred units are a matter of culture, as well as of measure. Units are as important as the number they're associated with, and the people using them; and unit conversion is cultural acceptance given technical form: The idea that other people's thoughts and words are no less valuable solely for being made along different lines than your own, even if you don't understand why they're different; and with a little effort you can still understand what they're saying, and it's worthwhile. Like you say, an eighth-of-a-billion-dollar Mars probe was lost because some people only looked at the numbers and just assumed their units were the only one that could matter; and that was an incident that only cost dollars instead of lives.
    Aye. The Mars probe disaster wasn't a "nobody should use USCU, everyone should use metric" issue, it was a "write the dang units!" issue. Which almost every basic math and science class I'd ever taken were consistently and uniformly insistent on.
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