Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

[Jasdoif]

Not surprising. As far as I understand, the American call it "fries", the British just call them "chips", and the European have this stereotypical misconception that the American have to call them "French fries" because they are too dumb to understand what "chips" or "Pommes" means.

I still hear them called french fries, but it's nearly always shortened to just "fries", yes.

Potato chips, meanwhile are thin slices of potato that are fried (which I think are called "crisps" in British English). Tortilla chips are kind of similar in being thin, starch-based, and a common base for dips; but otherwise quite different, so "potato" doesn't get dropped as often for potato chips.

[b_jonas]

Potato chips, meanwhile are thin slices of potato that are fried (which I think are called "crisps" in British English).

That's what Americans call "chips", not what the British call "chips". The British call these "crisps" because the word "chips" already has a pretty useful meaning.

[Jasdoif]

That's what Americans call "chips", not what the British call "chips".

Yes, that's what we call "chips"; which is why I called them "chips".

The British call these "crisps" because the word "chips" already has a pretty useful meaning.

I think it's the same thing here; we call that other variety of potato product "fries" because "chips" already has a different meaning for us.

Edit to add: Apparently, "french fries" in particular stems from American soldiers in Belgium, who nicknamed them "french fries" because the official language of the Belgian army at the time was French....and I imagine for the alliterative value of both words beginning with the same "fr" sound, which I also imagine is why it persists.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not surprising. As far as I understand, the American call it "fries", the British just call them "chips", and the European have this stereotypical misconception that the American have to call them "French fries" because they are too dumb to understand what "chips" or "Pommes" means.

What's disputed is whether they are a French of Dutch invention. The naming of it is not in dispute, Peelee's joke aside.

Grey Wolf

[danielxcutter]

What’s not disputed is that they’re yummy.

[Jasdoif]

What’s not disputed is that they’re yummy.

Usually! The occasional overly mild practically flavorless potato intended to be dipped into a superior sauce is almost an exception, but texture is important. The best fries are good on their own and can be improved with a sauce, of course.

Personally, I think fries pale next to the jojo; but that's a much more specialized potato product than fries, which can go alongside a much wider range of meals.

[danielxcutter]

Usually! The occasional overly mild practically flavorless potato intended to be dipped into a superior sauce is almost an exception, but texture is important. The best fries are good on their own and can be improved with a sauce, of course.

Personally, I think fries pale next to the jojo; but that's a much more specialized potato product than fries, which can go alongside a much wider range of meals.

That name is *quite* the target for memes, although since I’ve never had them I can’t say if it MUDAMUDAs the typical fry into oblivion myself.

[snowblizz]

What's disputed is whether they are a French of Dutch invention.

Grey Wolf

So they decided to split the difference and we all were told fries were a Belgian invention? #controversialhistoricaljoke



Speaking of, that particular fries joke in Asterix was also in the Swedish translation but sort of adapted. In Swedish they are known as pommes frites as well, despite noone actually knowing pommes are apples or that they refer to "earth apples" in French. The joke was something along the lines "Romans fell down, pom! pom! pom!" and later on they drag in boiling oil somewhere for an offhand request by one of the Belgian Gauls for oilfried something or other.

They keep going on about oysters as well, the pirates drag along a piece of their sunken ship with oysters on. That joke didn't translate well because I never understood the connection.


Generally the translations I've read have kept as much wordplay as possible though sometimes they miss the wider point and there's only a lame pun. It depends ofc on how much effort the translator put into it.

[Fyraltari]

They keep going on about oysters as well, the pirates drag along a piece of their sunken ship with oysters on. That joke didn't translate well because I never understood the connection.

In French it's mussels on the plank. Because mussels with fries is a traditional northern France/Belgian dish.

[snowblizz]

In French it's mussels on the plank. Because mussels with fries is a traditional northern France/Belgian dish.

Ah right, ok that seems to be what they were trying to go for then. Now you mention it mussels (I was probably remembering it wrong) and fries was mentioned. I guess they are sorta going for a "this is how it came to be" kind of "origin story" for the dish.

Little Mannekin who had to pee was a more easily understood reference.

[Fyraltari]

Ah right, ok that seems to be what they were trying to go for then. Now you mention it mussels (I was probably remembering it wrong) and fries was mentioned. I guess they are sorta going for a "this is how it came to be" kind of "origin story" for the dish.

Exactly.

Little Mannekin who had to pee was a more easily understood reference.

Well it's kind of an obvious one.

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

I don't recall that allusion but, having read Asterix in Spanish, French and English (what can I say, I found it the easiest thing to practice reading foreign languages with), I have to say that they are amazingly translated, given how hard the original material is. Pratchett, for example, fared significantly worse (into Spanish - never tried it in French).

Grey Wolf

[Quebbster]

I don't recall that allusion but, having read Asterix in Spanish, French and English (what can I say, I found it the easiest thing to practice reading foreign languages with), I have to say that they are amazingly translated, given how hard the original material is. Pratchett, for example, fared significantly worse (into Spanish - never tried it in French).

Grey Wolf

I have read a few in English and a handful in Danish besides Swedish and it's fascinating to see what details differ. The kid wants to take French classes next semester so I look forward to when he can explain all the French jokes to me.
And agreed about Pratchett. In the Swedish translation of Soul Music there is even a footnote where the translator says "Allright, I give up" and then explain the joke about Imp y Celyn.

[Fyraltari]

I don't recall that allusion but, having read Asterix in Spanish, French and English (what can I say, I found it the easiest thing to practice reading foreign languages with), I have to say that they are amazingly translated, given how hard the original material is. Pratchett, for example, fared significantly worse (into Spanish - never tried it in French).

Grey Wolf

Oh man, Pratchett's translation in French is ****ing great. The translator got an award for it and really deserved it. Not all jokes could be saved but a huge lot were and some were added (especially the running gag of DEATH's grammatical gender*) and some references were changed (all the welsh puns in Soul Music were turned into Breton puns, the name of the new Watch HQ became a reference to the seat of Paris Homicid Police Division, and so on). It also manages to read very close to the original style.

*See "la Mort" is feminine because most abstract things are but the character is male, so he is treated as masculine in sentences. Each book has an additional footnote the first time this happens and generallymake a joke (one who struck me was a pun on "necessary evil" become "necessary male" and one wondering how you don't know this by book XXXVIII. And there's this in Shepherd's crown:

Spoiler

Show

"Alright, we're telling you again that DEATH is male. But this is the last time!"



Made me cry.

[Ron Miel]

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

In the British translation it used lines from Byron's The Eve of Waterloo.

[Fyraltari]

In the British translation it used lines from Byron's The Eve of Waterloo.

That makes perfect sense.

[Kastor]

Minrah Elle Shaleshoe's name when spoken aloud is just Mineral Shaleshoe

[deltamire]

The two separate flashbacks of Durkon getting chucked out of his home - one posted in 2006, the other far later in 2015 - are delightfully consistent with each other, down to the beard colours and armour of the dwarves doing said chucking, the snow on the ground, and even the style of the throw-out. It's also a fantastic representation of the sheer improvement the OOTS style has had in the ensuing years between them. It probably just took looking back to check that they were the same when drawing 1007, but Art Consistency always gets a smile from me.

I'm sure someone has posted this before in this very iteration of the thread, but I wanted to mention it anyhow.

[Fyraltari]

The two separate flashbacks of Durkon getting chucked out of his home - one posted in 2006, the other far later in 2015 - are delightfully consistent with each other, down to the beard colours and armour of the dwarves doing said chucking, the snow on the ground, and even the style of the throw-out. It's also a fantastic representation of the sheer improvement the OOTS style has had in the ensuing years between them. It probably just took looking back to check that they were the same when drawing 1007, but Art Consistency always gets a smile from me.

I'm sure someone has posted this before in this very iteration of the thread, but I wanted to mention it anyhow.

Fake, Durkon’s head was up the first time and down the second, 0/10, no continuity, unsubscribe.

[deltamire]

Fake, Durkon’s head was up the first time and down the second, 0/10, no continuity, unsubscribe.

Ah, see, that's actually all explained in comic. The 2015 version shows Durkon nearing the end of his arc (both in terms of velocity and in-comic AMIRITE) while the 2006 one is near the start, after just being thrown. It is perfectly logical and completely reasonable to assume that he had been yeeted hard enough to cause him to spin in the air. Like a golfball with heavy armour proficiency.

[snowblizz]

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

It's been too long since I read the Swedish translation (at around 18 years of age I stopped going to the local library's childrens' section, nowadays I pretend to be borrowing books for kids I don't have). And back when I read I wouldn't have known to compare it to Hugo or Byron. Ok I probably still wouldn't. In Swedish there would not be something similar to refrence I think. I must admit I might have to borrow all the Asterix during summer to have a go with the old books. If they still got them, much to my annoyance they removed the old Lucky Lukes and replaced them with combination volume series (if that makes sense) and it's not complete. I also found they Gaston but similarly waiting for them to release the new transaltion/compialtion volumes.

I remember a joke about a Roman officer going on about how the Guard would not surrender and the guard telling him that they were actually very much prepared to do so, and in fact w ellin the process of so doing thankyouverymuch. I believe there were some "winged words"* spoken by the officer at this point. *That is a Swedish term meaning famous quotations effectively. Alea Iacta Est, Veni Vidi Vici and so used often in the Asterix context.

Speaking of changes, I noticed when reading the new English translations they actually edited the pictures to remove the michelin man in of the albums and replace him with a small gaulish warrior. I guess to spare us the hidden advertisement.

Speaking of translations, sometimes authors actually do consider this. Don Rosa (famous Donald Duck comic writer for those who didn't know) discusses it in one of his preambles to an old story he wrote back when he didn't know there was an international market for DD comics. His early stories and this one in particular relies heavily on punning on various language puns, particulary egregiously on geology in the one am thinking of. He goes on for abit trying to explain the jokes, and then eventually concludes there's no point to that excersie, wishes the translator good luck, apologieses and hopes we get some fun original jokes instead. At another point he brings up how after starting to work "internationally" ie for European distributors he started removing pun jokes and adapting the format a bit so translators could fit the text better into the comics. To paraphrase, he would make textbubbles fit English, then make them a bit bigger, and finally add an entire line of space so it could be translated into Finnish "with it's impossibly long words").

[Quebbster]

It's been too long since I read the Swedish translation (at around 18 years of age I stopped going to the local library's childrens' section, nowadays I pretend to be borrowing books for kids I don't have). And back when I read I wouldn't have known to compare it to Hugo or Byron. Ok I probably still wouldn't. In Swedish there would not be something similar to refrence I think. I must admit I might have to borrow all the Asterix during summer to have a go with the old books. If they still got them, much to my annoyance they removed the old Lucky Lukes and replaced them with combination volume series (if that makes sense) and it's not complete. I also found they Gaston but similarly waiting for them to release the new transaltion/compialtion volumes.

I remember a joke about a Roman officer going on about how the Guard would not surrender and the guard telling him that they were actually very much prepared to do so, and in fact w ellin the process of so doing thankyouverymuch. I believe there were some "winged words"* spoken by the officer at this point. *That is a Swedish term meaning famous quotations effectively. Alea Iacta Est, Veni Vidi Vici and so used often in the Asterix context.

Speaking of changes, I noticed when reading the new English translations they actually edited the pictures to remove the michelin man in of the albums and replace him with a small gaulish warrior. I guess to spare us the hidden advertisement.

Speaking of translations, sometimes authors actually do consider this. Don Rosa (famous Donald Duck comic writer for those who didn't know) discusses it in one of his preambles to an old story he wrote back when he didn't know there was an international market for DD comics. His early stories and this one in particular relies heavily on punning on various language puns, particulary egregiously on geology in the one am thinking of. He goes on for abit trying to explain the jokes, and then eventually concludes there's no point to that excersie, wishes the translator good luck, apologieses and hopes we get some fun original jokes instead. At another point he brings up how after starting to work "internationally" ie for European distributors he started removing pun jokes and adapting the format a bit so translators could fit the text better into the comics. To paraphrase, he would make textbubbles fit English, then make them a bit bigger, and finally add an entire line of space so it could be translated into Finnish "with it's impossibly long words").

The collected editions of Asterix arequite good, lots of explanations of the various in-jokes. Not quite as good as the latest editions of the Adventures of Tintin though, they really go into a lot of detail there.
Regarding the Michelin Man, the gaulish warrior is/was apparently the mascot of a french oil company and was replaced with a more familiar mascot in certain international editions. More info here.
The Don Rosa commentary is quite good too. I didn't mind all the rock jokes when I first read it so I think the translator did quite a good job with the translation.

[Fyraltari]

I remember a joke about a Roman officer going on about how the Guard would not surrender and the guard telling him that they were actually very much prepared to do so, and in fact w ellin the process of so doing thankyouverymuch. I believe there were some "winged words"* spoken by the officer at this point. *That is a Swedish term meaning famous quotations effectively. Alea Iacta Est, Veni Vidi Vici and so used often in the Asterix context.

One of the most oft-repeated anecdotes of Waterloo (at least in France) is the last stand of the Old Guard, whose leader, General Cambronne was ordered by the British to surrender and replied ‘the Guard dies, but does not surrender’, or alternatively ‘****’ which is sometimes called Cambronne’s word. This is referenced by Hugo’s poem.

However, that was most likely fabricated by newspaper looking for drama as Cambronne did survive the battle and denied having ever said either thing, even pointing out that ‘I did not die and did surrender’.

[Ron Miel]

and replied ... ‘****’ which is sometimes called Cambronne’s word.

Noisettes?

[deltamire]

The boot the lawyers use in 280 is the same one Eugene uses in 525 to literally punt Roy out of the afterlife. An aftereffect of an art style that benefits from objects looking similar, or a complex web of shared information between Eugene and the Lawyers, inspired by when Eugene used his illustrations to pretend to be a being of pure law and goodness at the trial they're involved in? A secret lost to the ages, indeed.

[Fyraltari]

Noisettes?

Hahaha!

Nope.

[snowblizz]

One of the most oft-repeated anecdotes of Waterloo (at least in France) is the last stand of the Old Guard, whose leader, General Cambronne was ordered by the British to surrender and replied ‘the Guard dies, but does not surrender’, or alternatively ‘****’ which is sometimes called Cambronne’s word. This is referenced by Hugo’s poem.

However, that was most likely fabricated by newspaper looking for drama as Cambronne did survive the battle and denied having ever said either thing, even pointing out that ‘I did not die and did surrender’.

Oh. Well you know what. That is probably *exactly* what the Swedish translation uses. I do know I sorta understood they were in some sense alluding to Waterloo but I never could exactly place it. The Guard dies, but it does not surrender. Yea, that rings so many bells even the hunchback of Notre Dame would be deafened.

The collected editions of Asterix arequite good, lots of explanations of the various in-jokes. Not quite as good as the latest editions of the Adventures of Tintin though, they really go into a lot of detail there.
Regarding the Michelin Man, the gaulish warrior is/was apparently the mascot of a french oil company and was replaced with a more familiar mascot in certain international editions. More info here.
The Don Rosa commentary is quite good too. I didn't mind all the rock jokes when I first read it so I think the translator did quite a good job with the translation.

That link was interesintg. So in other words the Swedish translation I read in my youth was the unedited one. Though I have to say it looked like someone had messed with the picture just there in the copy I read. So then I mistakenly figured the Michelin man was the original when I saw the English version! The twists and plots! Stuff like this is why I'd like to get my hands on these collection annotated editions.

Funnily enough I've been reading a complete edition (some in progress of being published/translated into my language now) of Spirou, Gaston and Lucky Luke respectively. I saw there was a similar set of books for Tintin but I didn't go for it. Now I must keep an eye out for Asterix. Would love to read that with backstories etc attached. Some of these are quite recent efforts of translation into Swedish so I guess may have to wait. The Gaston series is only 3 volumes in so far, latest one had arrived at the library in april.
I'm worried they are going to be splitting the collection though. I found several volumes of newly made collection of Carl Bark's works and that has been divvied up among several local branch libraries.

[LadyEowyn]

EDIT: Wrong thread

[snowblizz]

EDIT: Wrong thread

Yea, it's not the MitD thread.

[Fyraltari]

Funnily enough I've been reading a complete edition (some in progress of being published/translated into my language now) of Spirou, Gaston and Lucky Luke respectively. I saw there was a similar set of books for Tintin but I didn't go for it. Now I must keep an eye out for Asterix. Would love to read that with backstories etc attached.

Another interesting bit from Astérix in Belgium at one point towards the end it starts raining and the rain doesn’t stop until the final panel (the traditional banquet). This is because these are the panels Uderzo worked on after the death of Goscinny.

In the last panel you can see a sad-looking rabbit walking away from the party. This is because Goscinny’s wife used a rabbit-based nickname for him.