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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    I got two counterpoints to the OP:

    Now Odin is the father of Loki (that with Loki being Thor's bro and Odin's son), and although Odin's kinda senile, he's at least there for his children, which is an auto-win over Loki's mother who never even bother to show up her face during all the god conspiracies, like when her son is screwing over whole mortal races with bets.
    {scrubbed}
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-15 at 10:08 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    ClericGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I feel compelled to point out that there are options other than "male" and "female."
    Agreed. And given that V very early stopped noticing or understanding gender distinctions V and possibly V's native branch of Elvish culture doesn't recognize them either. "Other Parent" is what V's mate calls V, for example.

    Physically V may have a gender, but that is probably completely irrelevant to V and V's culture. Indeed somebody identifying with a gender is possibly as unusual as identifying as genderless is in our culture.
    Last edited by Seward; 2020-01-14 at 12:54 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    There's no reason to think that gender is a part of the elves' culture at this point.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    t209's Avatar

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Speaking of Gender, I think Inkyrius has a male body, assuming if he was intended to be gender ambigious of course.
    Inkyrius has a square hips like male characters and he's not a crappy parent.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    deuterio12's Avatar

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Quote Originally Posted by Seward View Post
    {scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    Says who? Surtr is a giant and powerful enough that Thor had to set out personally to stop him from rampaging around the land while eating people like candy.

    Hel is dating a Frost giant that was ready to challenge Thor to a 1x1.

    Plus Loki/Hel were always full fledged gods, so their moms are had to be godlike too otherwise they would just be puny demigods, not sitting at the top of the divine power chain.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-15 at 10:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Of Mantas View Post
    "You know, Durkon, I built this planet up from nothing. When I started here, all there was was a snarl. All the other gods said we were daft to build a planet over a snarl, but I built it all the same, just to show then. It got eaten by the snarl...

    ...so we built a five millionth, three hundreth, twenty first one. That one burned down, fell over, then got eaten by the snarl, but the five millionth, three hundreth, and twenty second one stayed up! Or at least, it has been until now."

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalFailure View Post
    There's no reason to think that gender is a part of the elves' culture at this point.
    I mean, Liran (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong) seemed pretty clearly female, in both body and identity.

    V and V's mate are not the only elves.
    I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    SolithKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Hel is not dating Thyrrm - he is orbiting her but she clearly doesn’t seem to care enough for anyone except herself
    And Thyrrm is a demigod so clearly below Thor in power
    'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjasghar View Post
    Hel is not dating Thyrrm - he is orbiting her but she clearly doesn’t seem to care enough for anyone except herself
    And Thyrrm is a demigod so clearly below Thor in power
    So, in the Marvel Universe, are we to understand that Thrymr is Loki’s “real” father? I was a little confused by the end of Thor.

    (And by “confused”, I mean the last fifteen minutes were “We’ve secretly replaced the script with loud noise and bright lights. Let’s see if anyone notices!”)
    Last edited by Dion; 2020-01-15 at 08:22 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Quote Originally Posted by t209 View Post
    Speaking of Gender, I think Inkyrius has a male body, assuming if he was intended to be gender ambigious of course.
    Inkyrius has a square hips like male characters and he's not a crappy parent.
    True. Inkyrius is a really good parent in what little we have seen of him. The only mistake he made was marrying a power-hungry adventurer, but that can happen to everyone. Elan's mother had to deal with that, too.


    @Seward: Not identifying as any gender whatsoever is a lot more common than you probably think. It's just that people who do not have a gender identity that is "agender" or "nonbinary", but simply do not have a gender identity in the first place do not care what pronouns you use for them, so you will never be told about their feelings regarding gender.
    Last edited by Themrys; 2020-01-15 at 09:58 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    I mean, Liran (I'm sure I'm spelling that wrong) seemed pretty clearly female, in both body and identity.

    V and V's mate are not the only elves.
    But looking at other Stick-world elves, its definitely Lirian who stands out, when it comes to the body at least.

    Veldrina and the Resistance elves look closer to V and Inkyrius.
    Maybe Lirian had Drow blood?
    Or human blood maybe?

    On bad parents, does Hilgya count?
    Her parenting style might not be the worst we've seen, but I wouldn't call „taking your baby into battle” good parenting either.
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  11. - Top - End - #101

    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    So, in the Marvel Universe, are we to understand that Thrym is Loki’s “real” father? I was a little confused by the end of Thor.
    No, Loki's father is/was Laufey, King of Jotunheim. Thrym never comes up in the MCU, as far as I can recall.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Ruck's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Hel is dating a Frost giant
    Once again, you should try reading the actual comic and not the imaginary one you've invented.

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterio12 View Post
    Plus Loki/Hel were always full fledged gods, so their moms are had to be godlike too otherwise they would just be puny demigods, not sitting at the top of the divine power chain.
    It's not entirely clear where the gods came from, aside from those that are explicitly given parentage.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Lizardfolk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    But looking at other Stick-world elves, its definitely Lirian who stands out, when it comes to the body at least.

    Veldrina and the Resistance elves look closer to V and Inkyrius.
    Maybe Lirian had Drow blood?
    Or human blood maybe?
    Maybe there's a wide variety of body types for elvendom? Vs body looks different from other elves (it might be the robe) but is definitely full-elf.

    As for Lirian being definitely feminine rather than androgynous; elf sex could be a sliding scale rather than binary, but there would still be some that are at the ends of the scale.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    KorvinStarmast's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    As for Lirian being definitely feminine rather than androgynous; elf sex could be a sliding scale rather than binary, but there would still be some that are at the ends of the scale.
    When we ask our selves where half elves come from ... maybe Dorukan and Lirian were both past fertile ages or they both never wanted kids ....
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    AssassinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    As for Lirian being definitely feminine rather than androgynous; elf sex could be a sliding scale rather than binary, but there would still be some that are at the ends of the scale.
    IRL some humans certainly play up their masculinity or femininity, while others are more middle of the road. Especially now that the same hairstyles etc. are becoming accepted for everyone regardless. So there's no reason elves can't be the same.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    HalflingRogueGirl

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Couple quick things to add to this discussion. IIRC:
    1) Elan's mother didn't give up Nale willingly, it was decided by the court, and she cried about him afterwards
    2) In addition to mentioning his aunt and grandmother, Belkar mentions something about Mama Bitterleaf's recipe for (murder? something violent, I forget). So unless Mama is a term he used for grandmother, he's probably talking about his mother, who was also violent. Also, when he mentions his grandmother being taken to a retirement home, he says "we took her", which I'd guess refers to himself and at least one other member of his family, possibly a parent. Oh and unless Belkar has his mother's maiden last name (which might make sense if his father abandoned him/was a nameless guy from a one-night stand or something), then 'Mama Bitterleaf' was apparently married to his father(/grandfather).
    3) {scrubbed}

    (Sorry this is badly-written, I'm on my phone)
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-16 at 01:20 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #107
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    The Mod on the Silver Mountain: This is a friendly reminder to keep all religious or mythology talk firmly rooted in the comic (or gaming, or other comics, or any other strictly fictional medium).
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  18. - Top - End - #108
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    I don’t believe V is a crappy parent.

    V is far from a perfect parent. And, I’m not sure if V is making an active effort to be a good parent.

    But comparing V to Roy’s dad or Elan’s dad (who each literally killed one of their own children) is unfair.

    I’m not saying V is a good parent because they’re better than Eugene and Tarquin (or Hilgya and Loki). That’s a pretty low bar, and you don’t get a lot of points for clearing it.

    But V does clear the bar.
    Last edited by Dion; 2020-01-16 at 05:32 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    AssassinGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    But comparing V to Roy’s dad or Elan’s dad (who each literally killed one of their own children) is unfair.
    When you put it that way, I think that comparing Eugene (whose son died in what we would call a laboratory accident, from what little we know or infer) with Tarquin (who outright murdered his son in cold blood) is pretty harsh, if you're using the phrase "each literally killed their own children".

    I mean, is it true from the perspective that both took some actions that resulted in the death of their child? Yes. Was it intentional in both cases?? I hope not. It's hard for me to picture Eugene ending up waiting for the LG afterlife if he had been the kind of man who would test out death spells on his toddler.
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  20. - Top - End - #110
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    hroþila's Avatar

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    Accidents where good parents lose their kids do happen. While it is certainly implied that there was a degree of negligence on Eugene's part, the fact that Sara stayed with him and still showed some respect towards him post mortem probably suggests that it wasn't a particularly egregious case of negligence. Now, Eugene was certainly a terrible father (to Roy, at least), but saying he killed Eric is taking it too far, in my opinion.
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  21. - Top - End - #111

    Default Re: Crappy parent = man

    Oh, Eugene pretty definitely killed him, given the information we have. What he didn't do was commit murder, which is what Tarquin did to Nale.

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Flumph

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    When you're the absolute ruler of a country and one of your subjects commits murder, is it really a crime to execute them? And should the answer depend on whether the subject is your son?

    Depending on how you look at it, Eugene is actually more to blame than Tarquin. At least Tarquin was knowingly doing "justice," albeit in a disturbingly cold-blooded way. Eugene may not be guilty of murder, but there's no way in which he comes out of the situation with Eric looking blameless.
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    BlackDragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Oh, Eugene pretty definitely killed him, given the information we have. What he didn't do was commit murder, which is what Tarquin did to Nale.
    Even Roy says in #496: "You didn't miss much after the accident." when talking to his baby brother. Note "accident". Whatever accident occurred does not necessarily have to be something Eugene did directly. Just to give an example, if this were set in modern times, and the child died because Eugene wasn't watching him carefully enough and he stuck a fork into a power outlet, would you say Eugene killed the child? Blame for the child's death can still be assigned to someone even if that person didn't kill them outright.

  24. - Top - End - #114
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    When you're the absolute ruler of a country and one of your subjects commits murder
    They weren't in the EOB (or even any of the other LG countries. If they were, they wouldn't have had the "finders keepers" rule take effect), and Nale isn't one of their subjects.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-17 at 08:34 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    BlackDragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    When you're the absolute ruler of a country and one of your subjects commits murder, is it really a crime to execute them? And should the answer depend on whether the subject is your son?

    Depending on how you look at it, Eugene is actually more to blame than Tarquin. At least Tarquin was knowingly doing "justice," albeit in a disturbingly cold-blooded way. Eugene may not be guilty of murder, but there's no way in which he comes out of the situation with Eric looking blameless.
    Officially he isn't the absolute ruler. Unofficially he still isn't.

    Even if he was absolute ruler or whatever and that applied to the killing so what? His motives still apply (perhaps more so) to judging the action and those were pretty dang clear.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    When you're the absolute ruler of a country and one of your subjects commits murder, is it really a crime to execute them?
    Sure, if the law is “anything Tarquin does is automatically legal because Tarquin said so”, then it’s true that Tarquin did not commit a crime.

    However, I’m kind of a fan of trials, and I’d argue that he’s still kinda evil.

    Also, I’d argue that murdering Nale made Tarquin a bad parent to Nale, regardless of whether or not it was legal.
    Last edited by Dion; 2020-01-17 at 05:06 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Vinyadan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    When you're the absolute ruler of a country and one of your subjects commits murder, is it really a crime to execute them? And should the answer depend on whether the subject is your son?
    That's not really how it went, though. Tarquin offered Nale a position as pawn, and Nale refused, so he killed him in cold blood and without a warning. So, even if Tarquin had been interested in justice, it still would have been behind his power, his plans, or his legacy, depending on what he was exactly aiming for.
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    DruidGirl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    On bad parents, does Hilgya count?
    Her parenting style might not be the worst we've seen, but I wouldn't call „taking your baby into battle” good parenting either.
    No, she doesn't.
    Let's not be silly, please. This is a comic based on D&D. Real life logic only applies to some extent. She says she is high level enough to effectively protect her child, and there is absolutely zero reason to believe she's lying.

    Let's remember that V only just so bothers to make sure that the injuries of Inky and the kids aren't immediately life-threatening. If it weren't taking place in a comic based on D&D that would make V an even more terribly bad parent than V is already.



    Tarquin is a crappy parent not so much because he killed Nale after Nale had become an uncontrollable maniac who walked around murdering Tarquin's friends, but because he brought up Nale to become the sort of person who would do that sort of thing. (We are shown that Nale already had an evil moustache as baby, but Tarquin clearly never made an effort to teach him empathy.) He raised Nale to be just like himself, and then hated him for it.

    Actually, thinking about it, Nale turned out pretty okay considering that he was raised by Tarquin. Nale seems to have been in a healthy, loving relationship with Sabine, while Tarquin ... last time he took an interest in a woman he committed rape by deception, then tried to follow that up with rape by coercion.

    Bad role model. Very bad role model.



    V versus Eugene ... belittling your son for wanting to be a fighter is pretty bad, but then, unlike V, Eugene did give up adventuring to be with his family.

    Hopefully, V will manage to become a better parent in V's lifetime than Eugene managed to be in his lifetime, but as far, they're about the same - V might accidentally have caused Inky and the children to be killed by angering the black dragon. Pretty similar to how Eugene killed his son in an accident while, probably, pursuing arcane power.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    It's particularly interesting that Eugene apparently doesn't want Roy to know that he gave up adventuring to be with his family. He hid the fact that he chose to stay with them rather than go after Xykon. though he seems to have regretted it once he got shut out of the afterlife. The scene where he tells Roy it would've been more efficient not to have a family is particularly interesting in this respect. It makes me wonder if his callous attitude is sort of overcompensating because he doesn't want Roy to know that he actually chose his family over his revenge quest.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Who, Hilgya? The woman who murdered her son's father right in front of her baby? Sure, sounds great. I'm sure she'll put the child's well-being above her petty desires. After all, she did cover his eyes with her hand, although she didn't see any problem in him seeing the corpse.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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