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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Core set initial thoughts:


    Demon Hunter - Kor'vas looks pretty interesting, though I'm not sure how powerful he is. Am I right in thinking that Demon Hunter Initiate set is out, meaning that Altruis is also out?

    Druid - Overall I like these, but I question that Force of Nature and Ancient of War were left unchanged. Both are pretty weak by modern standards and are unlikely to see play.

    Hunter - Lock and Load got buffed and brought back? Amazing. I don't like the new Tracking. Scavenging Hyena is still weak. Dire Frenzy being back gives me...mixed feelings.

    Mage - Love the cards they brought back, but I wish they had mixed the secrets up a bit more.

    Paladin - Reckoning is awesome. Pursuit of Justice concerns me slightly. Wish Truesilver had gone.

    Priest - As expected, not much new. Couple of more aggressive options now though.

    Rogue - No Eviscerate, hurray. No Van Cleef, double yay but already known. Plague Scientist needed to be better. New Assassin's Blade is...interesting.

    Shaman - A few slight buffs, nothing especially notable.

    Warlock - Flame is still here, boo. Fiendish Circle and Lakkari Felhound were never great and fall under "Why?" Most notable - full health Jaraxxus!

    Warrior - Got out almost entirely unscathed. I see multiple cards I wanted to see the back of. Oh well.

    Neutral - List looks incomplete (only goes to 3 mana), so reserving judgement.

    Edit:

    Ok, Neutral cards are in.

    Blast, Gadgetzan Auctioneer survived. He's been on my hit list for a long time. Then again, he doesn't show up so often these days, so I'm not too miffed. Alexstrasaza is gone, woohoo! I kinda love the Nozdormu change - it basically opens up "speed Hearthstone" as a game mode for friends playing each other. Taelen Fordring is a Neutral tutor card for a reasonable cost. I wonder if you could cheat out C'Thun this way?

    ------


    Overall, I'm very pleased. There were a lot more changes than I expected and a lot of the "boring" cards from my list got the boot. The new cards are interesting and the ones they brought back range from nostalgic favorites (Spider Tank) to cards that are actually likely to see play (Nerubian Egg). The set as a whole looks much more relevant and contains specialized cards instead of the "boring but efficient" cards that typically made the cut expansion after expansion.

    My only real disappointment is Warrior. They already had one of the most consistent Basic/Standard sets and lost almost nothing from that list.
    Last edited by Rodin; 2021-02-25 at 04:02 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    My disappointment that they're bringing back Lock and Load AFTER all of the disjointed Hunter Spell Damage support rotates out is immeasurable.

    My excitement that they brought back ****ING DIRE FRENZY is also immeasurable.

    Dude Paladin being back on the menu in a big way is quite nice as well. Equality "buff" is welcome as well, though a full revert would have been nice.

    Jaraxxus buff is sweeet.

    Notable Neutral returns: Rivendare could be spooky. Lone Champion is an interesting pick; him and Grim Necromancer are ones that are really nostalgic to see, because they were cornerstones of my deckbuilding back when I was just getting started as a F2P player during Frozen Throne. Onyxia turning into a jacked version of Shu'ma is also neat.

  3. - Top - End - #633
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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I should say that my mixed feelings about Dire Frenzy come from being on the receiving end of it. It's a really cool design and it's good to see it back, buuuut......

    There's a very useful graphic that breaks down the core set here. Helped me catch some changes that I didn't notice, like Savage Roar, Kill Command, Eagle Horn Bow, and Animal Companion all getting the boot.

    It also puts into scope just how massive this change is. It's a far bolder change than I ever expected Blizzard to make, and I am 100% for it. I also just realized how earthshaking this is for the Discover pool - a lot of the "auto picks" are getting pushed out the door.

  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    For the most part, there is a significant reduction from hand damage: Charge is limited to a single handful of Legendary minions, all of them class cards at that, and all the others either got rotated out (Animal Companion, Wolfrider, Southsea Deckhand, Ko'kron Elite, Reckless Rocketeer, Argent Commander) or got +1 Attack and Rush instead (Stonetusk Boar and Bluegill Warrior.) Mage lost a lot of burn spells with Arcane Missiles and Frostbolt. Demon Hunter while still has attack boosting stuff, they also lost Twin Slice, Umberwing, Glaivebound Adept, and Altruis. Rogue lost Eviscerate. Warlock has no Soulfire.

    It's not gone completely, obviously there's still buffs, weapons, Fireball, and a new Alex that can deal 8 to the face, but the board state is going to be far more important than it has been.
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  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    An interesting set of changes with the new core set; I'm pleased to see alot of the core cards that were a bit too weak getting updated to handle the games' power creep so that they may be useful again. Lots of stuff got +1 health or other small buffs.

    It still feels weird how much cheaper card advantage and card replacing effects have gotten these days; alot of decks just never run out of steam. Iirc in the old days, running out of cards to play was a much more possible occurrence.

    Looking forward to trying them out and see what's viable now.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
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  6. - Top - End - #636
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    An interesting set of changes with the new core set; I'm pleased to see alot of the core cards that were a bit too weak getting updated to handle the games' power creep so that they may be useful again. Lots of stuff got +1 health or other small buffs.

    It still feels weird how much cheaper card advantage and card replacing effects have gotten these days; alot of decks just never run out of steam. Iirc in the old days, running out of cards to play was a much more possible occurrence.

    Looking forward to trying them out and see what's viable now.
    I mean yeah, but having nothing to play isn't fun either. Moreover, the paucity of card draw just meant everyone would do the same things, like how every control deck back in the day was running Acolyte of Pain + Loot Hoarder, which made the meta fairly stagnant.

    I'm worried about Priest though, their card draw has gotten considerably worse than it was in the old days. Sure they have lifegain, but so do Warrior/Warlock/Shaman/Druid, and those get way better draw, ramp, or both too.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  7. - Top - End - #637
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    True, having nothing to play isn't fun; it just feels a bit weird cuz it's so different. Before you had to, in deck design, seriously consider how much staying power your deck had. Now, you can even run an aggro-heavy deck that still near endlessly refills.

    Also, the premium on getting a replacement card was higher. Nowadays, while "draw a card" tends to add a fair bit to the cost, alot of other effects like "discover a card" or getting some random cards in a subset, are very cheap. They're also so numerous that "discover" effects have a fair chance of getting a card which will replace itself.
    There are also several potent, albeit conditional, hand refillers for comparatively cheap.


    edit: on another note, I've been getting less fond of battlegrounds for awhile. Probably I'm just getting worse, or others are getting better, and its demotivating to lose. But it does feel like there's too much rng-ness involved in how you do; in particular sometimes you just are given garbage to choose from for minions, and there's not much you could've done. There's a limited number of combo enablers, and if you don't get some, AND enough of the appropriate minions to enable it, you just won't do well. Even with being mindful to switch builds, sometimes you just aren't given what's needed.
    Last edited by zlefin; 2021-03-01 at 11:40 AM.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I love new Tracking and new Lock and Load. I've always been a huge fan of Spell Hunter back in the day, and this gives me hope that they're going to continue supporting that archetype.

    Old Tracking had some hidden benefits people don't often notice though, like being able to weed negatives and junk out of your deck. Tracking has saved me from Bomb Warrior more than once. New one doesn't do that - but then, new one doesn't screw you over when you accidentally delete a combo piece or win condition either. Call it a toss-up.

    Another thought for Priest - yeah we lost Inner Fire, but Crazed Alchemist is taking its place, so health-buff tempo could still be a thing, maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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  9. - Top - End - #639
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I love new Tracking and new Lock and Load. I've always been a huge fan of Spell Hunter back in the day, and this gives me hope that they're going to continue supporting that archetype.

    Old Tracking had some hidden benefits people don't often notice though, like being able to weed negatives and junk out of your deck. Tracking has saved me from Bomb Warrior more than once. New one doesn't do that - but then, new one doesn't screw you over when you accidentally delete a combo piece or win condition either. Call it a toss-up.

    Another thought for Priest - yeah we lost Inner Fire, but Crazed Alchemist is taking its place, so health-buff tempo could still be a thing, maybe?
    Crazed Alchemist would be more of a combo deck than tempo, honestly. And I don't think any sort of health buff/inner fire style deck is going to work with the gutted level of Priest draw. Those decks used to work based on Northshire Cleric/Circle/other spells being used to draw you a boat load of cards super cheaply. Ever since we lost that I feel like you could bring Inner Fire back in and it not even be particularly dangerous. Inner Fire at least had good tempo uses, using Alchemist as your flip means if you aren't winning that turn, your super buffed minion gets traded down easily because their health is going to be awful.

    They did say they want draw to be something every class can do again, and didn't bother adding any into the core set, so I am hopeful Forged in the Barrens will have some priest card draw and might make a combo deck viable again, but for right now Priest looks to still be firmly set into the Value endgame.

    I think for a Tempo Priest possibility, they have stated several times they want Shadow Priest to work, they're reimagining it as a lot of small pings to face, with the new 3 mana 4/3 that deals 3 damage on death being an example of it. But honestly there's not a whole lot else in the core set supporting that either. (I see Death Rattle Aggro Rez Priest being a thing that possibly makes the cut in wild though? It seems scary in theory but maybe too slow for the wild format)
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


  10. - Top - End - #640
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    So in Battlegrounds, are Pirates simply the uber-tribe right now? I've been trying to play BG more, and it seems like every single time a Pirate comp wins out. I see 100/100 Golden Goldgrubbers, lines of Golden Elizas+Golden Ripsnarls backing up Golden Seabreaker Goliaths, all apparently fueled by Golden Hooktusks. I'm lucky to see one or two Gold minions per game, but if you go Pirates you appear to be dripping in them...unless if I go Pirates, then everyone else just gets better Pirates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  11. - Top - End - #641
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    So in Battlegrounds, are Pirates simply the uber-tribe right now? I've been trying to play BG more, and it seems like every single time a Pirate comp wins out. I see 100/100 Golden Goldgrubbers, lines of Golden Elizas+Golden Ripsnarls backing up Golden Seabreaker Goliaths, all apparently fueled by Golden Hooktusks. I'm lucky to see one or two Gold minions per game, but if you go Pirates you appear to be dripping in them...unless if I go Pirates, then everyone else just gets better Pirates.
    No, not at all. Pirates are still pretty much where they've been ever since they handed out of buffs to them: better than they used to be, but not by that much. You can high-roll and make them crazy in the mid-game, but even then they'll only take first if nobody manages to put together the strong late-game builds that will just crush them if the game goes long enough (Elementals fueled by Lil' Rags, Dragons with Kalecgos and Nadina, Murlocs with Brann and enough luck accumulating buffs, sometimes a sufficiently lucky Menagerie).

    Patches is the only hero that can consistently even try for them, thanks to his hero power. Anyone else kind of needs to get handed Hoggers before they're even worth attempting.

    (Also, Hooktusk is not a card, just a hero, so I have no idea what you mean by "fueled by Golden Hooktusks." )
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  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Probably Hogger, my memory was bad. Whoever makes Pirates refund 3 gold when you buy them, basically making them free.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Probably Hogger, my memory was bad. Whoever makes Pirates refund 3 gold when you buy them, basically making them free.
    Hogger then, yes. Though you need a golden and a regular one to get to a refund of 3 gold when purchased. To be fair though, they're effectively free once you have two or a golden, since you can sell them back for the same amount of gold you spend on them at that point, so it's only a 1-gold loss if you keep them. In that sense, a golden Hogger plus a regular one means that every Pirate is a gold gain.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I need to find a streamer or something with youtube videos, that I can watch to figure out the high end tricks. I can get top 4 about 50% of the time, but I only got 2nd place once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  15. - Top - End - #645
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    I need to find a streamer or something with youtube videos, that I can watch to figure out the high end tricks. I can get top 4 about 50% of the time, but I only got 2nd place once.
    Kripparian and Slyssa are the two that I know are all-Battlegrounds on their Youtube channels, with rare exceptions when a new expansion or mode launches. Both are very good at the game, though Kripp's intros where he explains elements that he wants to highlight in each particular game may make his more helpful for learning from his gameplay. (I'm sure there's others that are Battlegrounds-focused out there, but I haven't felt a need to go looking for any more myself.)
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  16. - Top - End - #646
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I don't watch either, but of the two you're probably better off watching Slyssa since from what I've seen she's not ****ing insufferable like Kripp (who I watched briefly after getting into HS originally).

    Unless you're cool with listening to a guy say "Never lucky" 3 times a minute without ever changing facial expressions.

  17. - Top - End - #647
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I'll take insufferable if it's educational, and it sounds like Kripp is more what I want right now since I'm specifically trying to learn tricks and strategies I don't know.

    Sadly, I don't think any of his videos will help with my newest discovery, that losing connection to the server mid-match is an automatic forfeit for that round.

    EDIT:
    Kept going for a few more rounds...
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    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2021-03-04 at 03:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  18. - Top - End - #648
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Dog also plays Battlegrounds exclusively and is probably even better than Slysssa and Kripp.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sholos View Post
    Dog also plays Battlegrounds exclusively and is probably even better than Slysssa and Kripp.
    Came here to recommend Dog. Though gap between him and the others is less since the Khadgar nerf, but he's a great high skill player to watch and with less theatrics than the other two.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Slysssa's theatrics at least come off as endearing and/or cute for the most part because it still looks she's having fun. Kripp's salt is just painful.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I'm not sure if I hate more that the Book of Heroes fights are puzzle fights in disguise or puzzle fights in the first place.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I think that only started with Paladin, before that they were random like anything else and quite fun. Now they're awful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    ...I like puzzles... (looks back fondly on Boomsday Project)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    ...I like puzzles... (looks back fondly on Boomsday Project)
    Yeah, "puzzle fights" sounds a lot better to me than anything random. Though I'm not playing these Book of Heroes things anyway. I played the first one (Jaina, I think?), didn't think it was fun, thought the storytelling was weak, and the only reward was a card pack, which no longer means anything to me, so I haven't seen any reason to play the ones since.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I've cleared them all except Valeera, which I haven't gotten around to.

    I have yet to try Battlegrounds and Duels though - any good resources for learning the basics?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I haven't actually noticed it happening with the other classes, but Valeera's is heavily scripted. Sure there were puzzle fights in Uther and Anduin, but those were more about piloting X decks against Y.

    On paper, Valeera's story should be an improvement, because you wouldn't get screwed over by draw RNG. But in practice, it's frustrating because unlike the Boom Puzzles, these are multi-turn puzzles, you don't know if you screwed yourself over by using a resource too early or mulliganed it away. First boss is a wake up call and very telling in how the rest of the fights will go, but the last three in particular are very unforgiving.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Yeah, that's why these fights are lame and Boomsday was fun. With Boomsday you knew instantly if you'd gotten the solution or not, with Book of Heroes you're waiting until Turn 8+ to see if you played the exact correct cards in the exact correct order to counter the bosses's pre-scripted plays. Plus, Boomsday had actual variety in your objectives, so it was more than 'play Cards A, B,C,D,E, listen to dialogue, win'.


    Weirdly, the first three Valeera fights were the hardest for me, I pulverized my way through every other one except Cho'Gall because I didn't know the secret twist mechanic. Still won though, at 2 health with both decks empty.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2021-03-06 at 04:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  28. - Top - End - #658
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfRogueGirl

    Join Date
    Jun 2018

    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I only really realized it on the last one, because of the number of times I had to restart it. I noticed I always drew the same cards. Ravenholdt always played the same cards. The mulligans had the exact same results.
    I had been mulliganing away the double weapon attack card you get at the beginning because I figured I'd be better off drawing it later, I didn't need it at the start of the game and it would be more advantageous having something else at the beginning. But no, it's not going to get drawn later, and you need to keep it in your hand if you want to have time to use it.

  29. - Top - End - #659
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Hamste's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I'm still working my way through them but a few bosses were just too annoying for the heroes. It didn't seem fun playing a heavy aggro deck versus walls (A few others were bad as well but that one really stood out. I won it eventually but in the end it felt less like a win and more like the ai drawing badly).

    If it becomes puzzles later I will be quite glad.
    Avatar created by Elder Tsofu

    Spoiler: Giant in the Playground Hearthstone Champion
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  30. - Top - End - #660
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I miss the adventure bosses that let you craft a deck against them and beat them your own way. Sure, there were some super cheesy things you could do but there were also really inventive ways of beating them as well.
    Tali avatar by the talented Thormag.

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