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  1. - Top - End - #661
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sholos View Post
    I miss the adventure bosses that let you craft a deck against them and beat them your own way. Sure, there were some super cheesy things you could do but there were also really inventive ways of beating them as well.
    The older bosses (e.g. Blackrock, Explorer's , Karazhan, Frozen Throne) haven't gone anywhere though. I use those to test new decks solo, because Practice mode AI is too easy, so I need an opponent that cheats a bit. In the past, you needed a tailored or gimmick deck to beat a lot of those bosses, but with the general power creep, any decent standard deck can steamroll most of them. Even meme decks have a decent shot. And certain bosses, like Nefarian or the Lich King, are particularly well-suited to testing OTK decks.

    I used Odd Paladin for example to smash through Heroic Kara, and cleared a few classes on the Lich King using Mecathun decks.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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  2. - Top - End - #662
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Ah yes; testing against those old bosses; especially if using a full standard deck rather than a wild deck, would be an excellent way of more empirically measuring power creep over time. Do you know anyone who has tried to do an extra methodical test? eg taking the top standard decks of each year and trying them on a set of those old bosses.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by zlefin View Post
    Ah yes; testing against those old bosses; especially if using a full standard deck rather than a wild deck, would be an excellent way of more empirically measuring power creep over time. Do you know anyone who has tried to do an extra methodical test? eg taking the top standard decks of each year and trying them on a set of those old bosses.
    Not that I know of. Most HS YouTubers are streamers, and they go where the action is (live opponents) to test their constructed decks, since the failures can be as entertaining for their audiences as the successes. This is especially true for off-meta/"meme" decks.

    Power creep is honestly a fact of life in long-running TCGs. It doesn't bother me nearly as much in Hearthstone since you can convert your past decks into current ones at a fixed exchange rate, so even the most overshadowed legendaries and epics of yesteryear maintain some value. To say nothing of modes like Duels and Brawls rewarding you for keeping a bunch of old cards around anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  4. - Top - End - #664
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Speaking of old adventures, I've been going back and working through Heroic Tombs of Terror to get it off my bucket list. I got the VIP Membership treasure with the House Special deck for the first time today, and Holy Light was it hilarious to be that overpowered. Suppose its good that you have like a 1% chance to luck into it.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Killing time until FitB and the Core Set release, I decided to go back and complete all the single player story modes I missed out on during my hiatus.

    I just finished the Descent of Dragons storyline with the Explorers' League vs. EVIL, and the final boss battle with Galakrond ended up being a joke thanks to me getting no less than 4 Greyboughs on my side of the field. He drew through his entire deck looking for removal and devastations, and after a dozen or so board clears I ended up with 5 Greyboughs swinging for face.

    No real story there, just wanted to share something amusing
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    So does anyone here still play Constructed enough to care about the new cards inbound? Kazakus 2.0 looks interesting, but in not sure how many 4 cost cards are deck staples right now.

  7. - Top - End - #667
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    I still play constructed some. But I don't track the incoming cards much until they actually come; and I don't play at a high level, so I can play anything reasonably good and do fine enough. I look forward to enjoying whatever cards come; and will try out whichever useable ones I get.

    I have decided that I hate penflinger so much that I won't use it. It's an evil card that makes games less fun. It's problematic since there's so very few counters for it.
    A neat custom class for 3.5 system
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616

    A good set of benchmarks for PF/3.5
    https://rpgwillikers.wordpress.com/2...y-the-numbers/

    An alternate craft point system I made for 3.5
    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...t-Point-system

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    So does anyone here still play Constructed enough to care about the new cards inbound? Kazakus 2.0 looks interesting, but in not sure how many 4 cost cards are deck staples right now.
    I do, or rather I will again once FitB releases. RegisKillbin, Brian Kibler and Alliestrasza are my constructed youtubers of choice.

    Kazakus is fine I suppose, but I'm way more interested in using Mordresh/Reckless Apprentice/Fallen Hero to make some sort of Ping Mage deck.

    I'm still worried about Priest - losing both quest and Galakrond leaves me uncertain about their value generation prospect, and I haven't seen anything yet that takes their place.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I do, or rather I will again once FitB releases. RegisKillbin, Brian Kibler and Alliestrasza are my constructed youtubers of choice.

    Kazakus is fine I suppose, but I'm way more interested in using Mordresh/Reckless Apprentice/Fallen Hero to make some sort of Ping Mage deck.

    I'm still worried about Priest - losing both quest and Galakrond leaves me uncertain about their value generation prospect, and I haven't seen anything yet that takes their place.
    Priest is more likely to get some sort of big finisher. The Hearthstone devs have said they don't like the effect Priest!Galakrond has on the game and don't intend to replace him with a similar infinite value engine.

    The early indications are that Priest is going to get some sort of control archetype, but whether it happens or not remains to be seen. Priest in general should be helped out both by the reduction in burst damage and the reduction in combo decks as some of the key cards are removed from classic (or just rotate out). That said, the most popular combo decks (Demon Hunter and Warrior) will be remaining, so....

  10. - Top - End - #670
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Mordresh does look like a fun build-around finisher. Pity Rastakan's cards are in Wild, they would have great synergies.

    In other news, almost finished Heroic Tombs
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    So I am trying to get back into HS, mainly because of the changes in the basic set or whatever it is called now showing potential for new players, but I struggle to play anything other than Tempo Mage. I am good at it, and its sheer utter randomness is too much for most opponents to grasp. But in my case, the changes to the basic set seem to actually push towards buying recent expansions MORE rather than the buffs to old cards provide a solid foundation of cards even for budget players like me.

    I was a whale back in the days when the largest pack of an expansion was 50 euros (or dollars), and I even want some of the 80 bucks hero portraits but it is UTTERLY ridiculous to blow 80 money on a virtual card game.

  12. - Top - End - #672
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    The 50 preorder is still there, and Hearthstone Mathematics even calculated that it's more bang for your buck than the 80 one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Priest is more likely to get some sort of big finisher. The Hearthstone devs have said they don't like the effect Priest!Galakrond has on the game and don't intend to replace him with a similar infinite value engine.

    The early indications are that Priest is going to get some sort of control archetype, but whether it happens or not remains to be seen. Priest in general should be helped out both by the reduction in burst damage and the reduction in combo decks as some of the key cards are removed from classic (or just rotate out). That said, the most popular combo decks (Demon Hunter and Warrior) will be remaining, so....
    Control without card draw or generation is... an interesting concept.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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  13. - Top - End - #673
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Control without card draw or generation is... an interesting concept.
    Which is why they aren't doing that.

    Cards that are either in meta/tournament decks or which are just on the edges due to being pushed out by better cards (like Mr. Galakrond).

    Raise Dead
    Sethekk Veilweaver
    Palm Reading
    Insight
    Renew
    Draconic Studies
    Skeletal Dragon (rarely played directly, but a common pick from Draconic Studies in Control v. Control matchups).
    G'huun the Blood God
    Mindrender Illucia

    And that's the short list. I didn't look at any Neutral cards or the Core Set, or cards which are in a grey area of "card generation" like Blood of G'Huun and Abbess Alura which pull a card from your deck and put it straight into play.

    If the Masters Tour is anything to go by Priest will be harmed far more by the loss of Zephrys and Dragonqueen Alexstrasza. Galakrond was the luxury "I win" card for Control matchups.

  14. - Top - End - #674
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    Which is why they aren't doing that.

    Cards that are either in meta/tournament decks or which are just on the edges due to being pushed out by better cards (like Mr. Galakrond).

    Raise Dead
    Sethekk Veilweaver
    Palm Reading
    Insight
    Renew
    Draconic Studies
    Skeletal Dragon (rarely played directly, but a common pick from Draconic Studies in Control v. Control matchups).
    G'huun the Blood God
    Mindrender Illucia

    And that's the short list. I didn't look at any Neutral cards or the Core Set, or cards which are in a grey area of "card generation" like Blood of G'Huun and Abbess Alura which pull a card from your deck and put it straight into play.

    If the Masters Tour is anything to go by Priest will be harmed far more by the loss of Zephrys and Dragonqueen Alexstrasza. Galakrond was the luxury "I win" card for Control matchups.
    Every class is losing the highlander stuff so that doesn't matter. For the rest, it's still not looking rosy:

    A big chunk of your list is overstated; cards that give you a single card aren't "card draw", there's no card advantage there. They're cycles.

    Raise Dead and G'huun are actual draw, but they also hit you in the face, which is exactly what aggro wants.

    There are two actual generators on your list - Skeletal Dragon and Sethekk Veilweaver. The former might be decent, however it will depend on what dragons are left in standard after the expansion. The latter is highly unlikely to survive more than a turn.

    Illucia isn't draw at all, she's disruption. Great against combo definitely, but the other two archetypes don't care - most of Control's stolen hand is dead anyway (either a bunch of removal they didn't need anyway, or dangerous monsters you'll only have enough mana to play one of, which they can quickly remove). Meanwhile Aggro doesn't care that you dropped Illucia because she does nothing to the board and their hand is empty anyway. At best you can hope they have a taunt in hand before they eat you, followed by them eating you.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    So the full card list is out.
    Personal highlights:
    Talented Arcanist: normally, the class cards power creep on a neutral, not the other way around.

    Venomous Scorpid: Vulpera Scoundrel found dead in the Barrens.

    Wildfire: Oh... oh no Even Mage is actually going to be a thing.

    Refreshing Spring Water: 4 Mana Mage Spell; Draw 2. If your deck has no minions, this card costs (0)

    Rancor: 4 Mana Warrior Spell; Make Aggro concede.

    Gruntled Patron: HEY EVERYONE! GET IN HERE!!!

    Death's Head Cultist: surprisingly doesn't want you to die.

    The Caravans: interesting, but not that good.

    Void Flayer: "We're gonna have some fun!" *Priest spell generation goes brrr*

    "Murloc elements guide me!" -Thrall

    *Moe tosses Edwin out of Standard*
    *Dusts off hands*
    *Scabbs Cutterbutters shows up behind him*

    *Moe tosses Eviscerate out of Standard*
    *Dusts off hands*
    *Wicked Stab shows up behind him*
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geno9999 View Post
    Rancor: 4 Mana Warrior Spell; Make Aggro concede.
    *goes and looks up what this card is out of curiosity*
    *evil laughter commences*

    Oh, that almost makes me wish I could play standard again, just to run Control Warrior with that. Not nearly enough to get me to actually try to do it, but more than I would've thought they'd manage.

    May many aggro decks be given despair by it for years to come.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Given how fast aggro decks have been lately, getting to turn 4 might be optimistic lol.

    But nah, it's shaping up that this isn't going to be an aggro meta in any case.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Every class is losing the highlander stuff so that doesn't matter. For the rest, it's still not looking rosy:

    A big chunk of your list is overstated; cards that give you a single card aren't "card draw", there's no card advantage there. They're cycles.

    Raise Dead and G'huun are actual draw, but they also hit you in the face, which is exactly what aggro wants.

    There are two actual generators on your list - Skeletal Dragon and Sethekk Veilweaver. The former might be decent, however it will depend on what dragons are left in standard after the expansion. The latter is highly unlikely to survive more than a turn.

    Illucia isn't draw at all, she's disruption. Great against combo definitely, but the other two archetypes don't care - most of Control's stolen hand is dead anyway (either a bunch of removal they didn't need anyway, or dangerous monsters you'll only have enough mana to play one of, which they can quickly remove). Meanwhile Aggro doesn't care that you dropped Illucia because she does nothing to the board and their hand is empty anyway. At best you can hope they have a taunt in hand before they eat you, followed by them eating you.
    *shrug*

    Phrase it how you like. The fact is that there were 4 Control Priest decks in the top 8 in the most recent tournament, and two of those decks (all Highlander, mind) dropped Galakrond in favor of another card. You are vastly overstating the effect losing Galakrond is going to have on the class.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    All those poisons make me wish Kingsbane was still around, it was the only rogue archetype I enjoyed without any qualification. Swinetusk Shank isn't terrible but I see it as just too vulnerable to removal, and we lost Hoard Pillager besides.

    Am I crazy or can Piercing Shot hit your own minions but still go to the enemy's face? Seems like there's some kind of Wild combo there with Mo'Arg Artificer, not that Wild needs any help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
    *shrug*

    Phrase it how you like. The fact is that there were 4 Control Priest decks in the top 8 in the most recent tournament, and two of those decks (all Highlander, mind) dropped Galakrond in favor of another card. You are vastly overstating the effect losing Galakrond is going to have on the class.
    I'm not just talking about losing Galakrond though. My point was that Priest will have no real card draw and exactly two* card generators post-rotation: Veilweaver and Skeletal Dragon, both from Ashes of Outland, the new standard's oldest set. It points to the design philosophy for priest (or lack thereof) going into the new meta, and very likely beyond. When a class that's supposedly aimed at control has less draw and generators than Hunter, it might be worth another design pass.

    *Well okay, there's Soothsayer's Caravan too - which a lot less likely to either survive or get you anything useful than Veilweaver is.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    But nah, it's shaping up that this isn't going to be an aggro meta in any case.
    Please let it be midrange. I love me some midrange.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    That Paladin Silver Hand deck they're leading up to feels midrangey. Time will tell how strong it ends up being though.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    FYI - new/old mode released yesterday, Classic. Play Hearthstone as it was on release - back when Chillwind Yeti was playable, and with original/unnerfed versions of cards like Force of Nature and Power Word Shield.

    It's a decent diversion for returning players until the new set drops.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    The Nitroboost nerf does seem to point towards reigning in aggro as well.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    FYI - new/old mode released yesterday, Classic. Play Hearthstone as it was on release - back when Chillwind Yeti was playable, and with original/unnerfed versions of cards like Force of Nature and Power Word Shield.

    It's a decent diversion for returning players until the new set drops.
    It did? I was assuming that was coming with the new set. Well, cool, I officially have a mode besides Battlegrounds to play again.

    Edit: So, how come when I logged on just now the game randomly decided that I had over 500 ranked wins with Shaman, Warlock, and Mage and give me those golden heroes? I was fairly short there before, I think of those only Warlock was within 100 wins of that. It's like they just randomly awarded me a bunch of extra wins with every class, because it looks like I'm a lot closer with some of the other classes all of the sudden now, too. The only thing I can think of is that they suddenly found a way to count wins from before they'd implemented the golden heroes (since IIRC they started from zero at the time, since they hadn't been tracking your exact number of wins by class before that), but I have no idea how they could have done that.
    Last edited by Zevox; 2021-03-26 at 07:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Same; I was about 20 wins short on Paladin and got the thing. I think they found a way to implement that for sure. It was probably always stored in a database SOMEWHERE, just wasn't easily accessible or usable.

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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    They did something that counted your past wins more accurately and rewarded you accordingly. I didn't really pay attention but Zeddy has a video explaining it.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    Same; I was about 20 wins short on Paladin and got the thing. I think they found a way to implement that for sure. It was probably always stored in a database SOMEWHERE, just wasn't easily accessible or usable.
    Yeah they confirmed on twitter that they updated the total wins counter, as well as wins per class, to include Arena Wins, as well as some Tavern Brawls that weren't being counted previously, so most people saw some amount of increase compared to before.


    It didn't get me any new golden portraits, but I am now 50 wins short of the 5000 required for a full golden core set, so I am looking forward to that.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    New expansion is out! Anybody open packs and get anything cool yet? (I haven't had the chance since there's no way I'm opening that many packs over mobile, but as far as legendaries I already got two that I had my eyes on, Mordresh and Kazakus.)

    Once I'm able to open the new goodies I'll be down for a standard game or two as well if people want to try stuff out.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-03-30 at 02:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
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    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    Didn't pre-order this one (only had enough money in my entertainment budget for one game this month, and that went to Nioh 2) but I have about 3k gold, some Google Play cash, and a dickload of dust so I should be set.

  30. - Top - End - #690
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Hearthstone 24: Don't tell the others, but I'm rooting for you!

    They decided to add a new reward for collecting all legendaries in the set in the form of a unique Diamond Card for it, so of course I had to binge the gold I saved in addition to preordering and blow some excess dust to complete the collection day 1.

    And now spent the last hour or two on ladder with a Spell Damage/Weapon face shaman. Not the most refined of decks, but it gets the job done and lets me show off my shiny new card with big flashy finishes.

    I think tomorrow I want to try to make a Shuffle Hunter. I really like the idea of that infinite value raptor card, and I don't think it'll be viable long term so this week may be my only chance to really get to play with it.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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