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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    I was around then, I well remember it (I still have the little book somewhere I was keeping note of my time online back in 1996 because I had to pay extra if I went over 20 hours a month). However, while the *bandwidth* of the Internet was very low in those days, the response times were still near instantaneous, and as far as I'm aware that has always been the case--there would be no real advantage to e-mail if it took just as long to arrive at its destination as the regular post, after all. Some sort of Internet which had to allow for long communications delays would not be the same thing we had in the 90s any more than it would be close to what we have now.
    Throwing a guess out, I imagine any sort of truly widespread but highly responsive scheme would all but require that systems/planets/sectors/etc. have their own repositories for content; basically adding another few levels of hierarchy to the edge caching that's sometimes used on this Internet for avoiding cross-continent delays.

    That would, in turn, mean any sort of serious effort to disseminate particular information galaxy-wide would vastly favor non-personalized content that's the same regardless of who's viewing it, to make the most of that arrangement....So it'd look more like (how I remember) the Internet of the late 90s than the Internet of today.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    From what I recall of Legends, there were multiple forms of FTL comms.

    You had the HoloNet everyone is talking about, which provided real-time holographic or video communication and was heavily restricted or expensive to use.

    At the same time multiple references are made to something called a 'Hypercomm' which I think it mainly audio/data transmission through hyperspace in a point-to-point manner. Lower bandwidth and cost, but not as networked as the HoloNet.

    Finally there's a couple references made to subspace comms in the Thrawn Trilogy, but very little elaboration was made.

    As for a Galaxy-Wide internet like what we know, I don't think there's much mention of anything close to that except on a planetary scale.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Old EU seemed to think the HoloNet had some semblance to broadcast TV or internet, given that Face Loran was known throughout the galaxy due to his holodramas.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    given that Face Loran was known throughout the galaxy due to his holodramas.
    I was a fan of Loran It was a good and happy time.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Old EU seemed to think the HoloNet had some semblance to broadcast TV or internet, given that Face Loran was known throughout the galaxy due to his holodramas.
    That might actually work with the idea that holonet bandwidth is expensive/hard to create and usually reserved for states and large corporations. A planetary system only needs to receive one copy of a movie or TV episode, and can spread it through normal means from there. Sending something to one person is just as expensive as sending it to a billion, as long as those billion live in the same system. So it would be much better suited for mass media than for anything on demand.

    Suits the by now retro feel of Star Wars too. This might be my new headcanon.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2020-01-17 at 12:41 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    According to TFA light travels instantly, so light based communications could easily make an internet system.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    According to TFA light travels instantly, so light based communications could easily make an internet system.
    Wasn't it a big plot point in that movie that Han Solo's reaction speed was basically faster than light?
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    Wasn't it a big plot point in that movie that Han Solo's reaction speed was basically faster than light?
    There is that, but specifically Finn sees planets at least several light years away get blown up by the Starkiller as they blow up. This means space communications are really easy, just using morse code between planets would work.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    There is that, but specifically Finn sees planets at least several light years away get blown up by the Starkiller as they blow up. This means space communications are really easy, just using morse code between planets would work.
    That gets explained in some book later as The Laser ripping open a hole in hyperspace making it so that large chunks of the Galaxy see Hosnian Prime die.

    It's stupid, but not as stupid as a laser going several hundred times C in Realspace
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    My 'stab in the dark', mainly from extrapolating RL experience of similar.

    - Every inhabited system with a 'native' tech level at ours or higher has some kind of system-wide internet. Complexity of it depends on technological level and numbers of people within said system.

    - Each are functionally 'walled gardens'. This would make sense in the SW universe; a means of official information control. What happens on say Taris stays on Taris and all that.

    - Each Garden gets 'updates' from other Gardens; utilising their own SneakerNet [ShipNet?] - starships coming in with stacks of holos and uploading them to the local system's internet. After all, what's the bandwidth of a cargo canister of a freighter, or even of a Twi'lek's carry-on luggage of a scheduled passenger transport? The scope and frequency of the 'updates' will depend on consumer demand, local government permissiveness and ease of access to the system; it's possible like our pre-Internet world, some backwater worlds [Outer Rim, mining colonies etc] may be weeks, perhaps months behind in what's being accessed media-wise in the Core systems. But it does allow certain artists, actors etc to build up genuine trans-system fame.

    - 'External' email/video messages can be delivered in a similar manner, using the 'hub and spoke' system used by RL postal systems. Your message is inscribed on a holo, it's shipped around, uploaded to the correct system's internet and then the recipient receives it.

    - There are real-time external communications, but there's limited bandwidth, and as the Govt bureaucracy, the military and a few chosen organisations get 'message precedence' normal folks barely get a look-in. Though for the vast majority of people, they don't feel the need. Few even know anyone off-system, and for that one they do, email/vmail does fine. If there's Anything Good on other Gardens, ShipNet will, well ship it in. It's just The Way It Is.
    Last edited by Mr Blobby; 2020-02-25 at 10:10 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum77 View Post
    Star Wars citizens have access to the Holonet all over different parts of the galaxy. However, the Holonet is not at all like our modern day internet. It is mainly used to transmit data and news between government.
    I would respectfully question this particular assertion. If you're looking at the current cannon material (movies, some of the TV series), there's no specific mention of an "internet-like" use of the Holonet or any other system, but that's really not surprise. The original trilogy was produced well before everyone knew about the internet in our universe. {scrubbed}

    In terms of hours of material, the movie format gives you limited time to squeeze in world-building. In A New Hope, we had one scene of holochess that simultaneously showed us the Chewie was a bit of a sore loser and that holochess was a nifty future thing that existed. It doesn't mean that Padme didn't watch cat holos on diplomatic trips or that space volleyball isn't a thing, it just means that you don't have time to explicitly depict every sci-fi leisure activity that exists in your setting. At least, not if you're limited to movies.

    The cannon series could afford to put some more fat on the bone and spend more time fleshing out the world for its own sake, but again, for in universe reasons it didn't really make sense to show a lot of internet time (or pop culture time in general.) Like the original trilogy, Rebels is set at the height of the Empire, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Emperor locked down any interstellar internet that previously existed and restricted the Holonet to sanctioned uses. The Clone Wars primarily followed Jedi, clone troopers, and non-clone military officers during a time of war. The first two groups had highly unconventional upbringings, and the third hopefully wouldn't be spending time doing random things online while literally fighting for the survival of the Republic.

    Now, if you go back into the Extended Universe/Legends continuity, I would argue that some sort of holo-internet absolutely exists. With all that opportunity for world-building, you actually actually see a lot more of in-setting pop culture in general--something that's conspicuously absent in most of the cannon material. The excellent X-Wing series had at least a couple of characters who were holo-movie stars and mentioned the Empire's use of movies as propaganda numerous times. Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor is also a really fun read if you like things a little campy, and is basically a movie/novel within the setting showing you the sort of thing Hollywood tends to do to a real hero's real story when bringing it to a mass market.

    Also in mind the majority of the Legends material was also produced before the late 90's/early 2000's, when the internet really became popular, and I would guess that the vast majority of EU writers/artists grew up without the internet, so it's not surprising the the internet doesn't figure prominently into the earlier works. Intentionally or not, the most recent works have a more contemporary vibe when it comes to everyday life, so it seems likely that they have either some sort of galaxy-wide internet, or as Mr. Blobby suggested, planet-wide internets that may be connected to each other through some FTL link under the control of some gate keeper.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-03-04 at 02:27 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Don't certain events in the movies imply that at least the Empire/older Republic had one? In particular that Obi-Wan Kenobi's transmission reached Tatooine that he found the bounty hunter on Geonosis, how did Boba Fett inform the Empire that he successfully tracked the Millennium Falcon to Cloud City, how did Admiral Huk contact Snoke, or why bother building a giant transmission tower on Scarif if the only ways for imperial worlds to pick up transmissions would be to send a ship directly there to receive a short range transmission, or to send a radio/EM burst transmission that would take years to get anywhere at light speed? I'll grant that there's a possibility that it was solely for military use only.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Secrets View Post
    In particular that Obi-Wan Kenobi's transmission reached Tatooine that he found the bounty hunter on Geonosis
    The HoloNet
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Secrets View Post
    how did Boba Fett inform the Empire that he successfully tracked the Millennium Falcon to Cloud City
    The HoloNet
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Secrets View Post
    how did Admiral Hux contact Snoke
    The HoloNet

    Anyway. We don't know if the HoloNet functioned like the World Wide Web.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    You mean an energy field, created by all living nerds, surrounding us and penetrating us, binding the whole galaxy together in knowledge, frustration, rage and pedantry?

    Sure, why not.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcane_Secrets View Post
    Don't certain events in the movies imply that at least the Empire/older Republic had one? In particular that Obi-Wan Kenobi's transmission reached Tatooine that he found the bounty hunter on Geonosis, how did Boba Fett inform the Empire that he successfully tracked the Millennium Falcon to Cloud City, how did Admiral Huk contact Snoke, or why bother building a giant transmission tower on Scarif if the only ways for imperial worlds to pick up transmissions would be to send a ship directly there to receive a short range transmission, or to send a radio/EM burst transmission that would take years to get anywhere at light speed? I'll grant that there's a possibility that it was solely for military use only.
    None of that requires the existence of a galaxy-wide information service along the lines of the present-day internet.

    In particular that Obi-Wan Kenobi's transmission reached Tatooine that he found the bounty hunter on Geonosis
    The HoloNet
    Obi-Wan's report to the Council from Geonosis offers circumstantial evidence against the existence of an FTL communications network, because he attempts to contact the Council directly, realizes that his starfighter's transmitter lacks sufficient range (possibly due to damage sustained while pursuing Jango Fett since he'd earlier been able to communicate with them through his starfighter's transceiver from Kamino), and then attempts to create an ad hoc network by contacting Anakin to have him relay his signal to the Council. If Obi-Wan were transmitting through a preexisting FTL communications network along the lines of the Internet, the cellular network, or the telephone network, then the range of Obi-Wan's transmitter should not have been relevant except inasmuch as it needs to be able to reach the nearest relay station that'll accept his transmission, and since he could reach both Naboo and Tatooine I would expect that he'd be able to reach multiple relays. This is however only circumstantial evidence against such a network existing, because his report is sensitive and as such he may not have been willing to risk sending it via a potentially-insecure relay network rather than passing it more directly through a trusted contact.
    Last edited by Aeson; 2020-03-11 at 07:46 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    I prefer the WEG solution... the Holonet is a high-end network that is hard to get access to... General Kenobi and Lord Vader can get access to it, because they're muckety mucks, but others are limited to lower-end stuff. Within a system, you're going to have individual FTL communications networks, and you can do inter-system realtime audio, but the really impressive holographic communication requires top-level clearances.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    So, Obi-Wan wants to transmit a point-to-point message to the Council, but is out of range for their receiver, so has to get Anakin to act as a repeater station to bounce his message to the Council?

    That's radio, baby. They used this in the '30s to allow the BBC 'Empire Service' to be transmitted from London to India, Malaya etc and in WW2 when the backpack walkie-talkies range could be increased by using a jeep [with a larger transmitter] as a repeater station.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Blobby View Post
    So, Obi-Wan wants to transmit a point-to-point message to the Council, but is out of range for their receiver, so has to get Anakin to act as a repeater station to bounce his message to the Council?

    That's radio, baby. They used this in the '30s to allow the BBC 'Empire Service' to be transmitted from London to India, Malaya etc and in WW2 when the backpack walkie-talkies range could be increased by using a jeep [with a larger transmitter] as a repeater station.
    Except this is an FTL version of radio, because the movie makes it pretty clear that it doesn't take years for Obi-Wan's message to arrive.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    Well, yeah. But my point being was that that there was a completely Internet-free explanation to how Obi-Wan delivered his message. It's also a manner which Boba Fett can tell Vader about Cloud City; he sent an encrypted radio-esque message at some point.

    In this case, the 'civilised galaxy' may have a network of high-bandwidth automated repeater stations, perhaps exploiting the same technological principles as hyperdrive does. Though then that doesn't explain why Obi-Wan didn't simply patch his message via one of said repeaters. Perhaps this can be handwaved by saying he didn't want to use 'conventional' comms because of the possibility of leakage? [After all, he was on a trail of someone(s) who'd been able to modify the Council's own records.]
    Last edited by Mr Blobby; 2020-03-12 at 03:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    That's what I was going to suggest, going for a more direct and secure transmission which had its own limitations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Could an Internet even work in Star Wars?

    It's worth noting that WEG addressed this, at least in 2e R&E, and probably earlier (p. 192 in that book, though).

    HoloNet was the deluxe, allowing instantaneous, holographic, communication throughout the galaxy, using hyperspace transceivers. Very expensive, and relatively easy to monitor, since it all had to go over government equipment. The equivalent of TV station, and attendant satellite network, to operate.

    Hypertransceivers had pretty much galactic reach, but were still very expensive. More like running a radio station. Some Hypertransceivers would also serve as Holonet satellites, but it was cheaper to just have a hyperradio.

    Subspace Radio was FTL, but only within a few light-years.

    Comms, Intercomms, and Commlinks were Speed of Light communication; radio, etc.

    So, if the Emperor wants to address the entire Galaxy, he uses the Holonet. If a CEO wants to talk to his entire company, he might use a Hypertransceiver. If a Governor wants to address his entire system, he can use Subspace Radio. And if you need to bluff your way past the Star Destroyer aiming at you, you're probably on Comms.

    What this MEANS in terms of an Internet? You can probably manage a system-wide internet that will be pretty comprehensive, for a reasonable cost, using Subspace radio. You can do Sector-wide with only some reasonable loading times, if you can connect several subspace networks. Hypertransceivers would allow more limited networks with amazing range, though.

    Being a librarian, I liken it to our collection. If we have it anywhere in OUR system, I can get it to you in a pretty minimal time... a few days to bring a physical object to another physical place. If it's outside of our system, I can request it from anywhere, but that will take longer, as it has to be found on the other end and transmitted to us.
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2020-03-12 at 10:50 AM.
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