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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: Characters who died because they were dumb-

    To be fair to Gilgamesh the entire point is that being careless with immortality is proof of how little he valued it.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Characters who died because they were dumb-

    Gilgamesh was never going to be immortal. Utnapishtim and his wife were granted immortality because the gods wanted to kill all of humanity but failed to as Ea outwitted them and leaked their plans to him, so as a kind of face-saving compromise they were declared a special case and brought above humanity as the last immortals never to be repeated. That he's to be the last immortal is repeated a few times.

    Gil's quest for immortality was really about bringing back the old pre-deluge knowledge to teach his people the proper rites that would save them from eternal torment in the afterlife, and when he died he'd sit in judgement over the dead. He needed to find Utnapishtim and accept his own mortality to get to that point, it seems.
    Last edited by Kitten Champion; 2020-01-09 at 09:34 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Characters who died because they were dumb-

    The W.H.O. Doctors in the B Wing of World War Z.

    Hey guys, you are researching one of the most virulent, instant-infectious, super contagious disease that is destroying humanity. Shouldn't you have high security lab to isolate victims of accidents?! Instead of losing THE ENTIRE LAB AFTER ONE INFECTION?!?!

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    The W.H.O. Doctors in the B Wing of World War Z.

    Hey guys, you are researching one of the most virulent, instant-infectious, super contagious disease that is destroying humanity. Shouldn't you have high security lab to isolate victims of accidents?! Instead of losing THE ENTIRE LAB AFTER ONE INFECTION?!?!
    Going back to the Walking Dead...

    You know that anyone who dies, even accidentally, will become a zombie. Why are you not keeping track of the health of people in your group? Or at least watching to make sure nobody zombifies?

    The place you have chosen as a refuge is a prison. Where the beds are in the cells. I can see not locking them, but why are you not at least closing the doors of the cells so you can sleep without getting nommed? It's not like the zombies know how to open doors, so even just latching the cell doors should be sufficient to keep a zombie out long enough for everyone to wake up.

    Our idiots don't do this, and surprise surprise someone gets eaten when a person dies of the flu and is free to walk about the prison unobserved and into somebody's cell.

  5. - Top - End - #35

    Default Re: Characters who died because they were dumb-

    To be honest, most people who die in a zombie die from stupidity, so it's not like the last two examples are exclusive to those series.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Re: Viserys - It's heavily implied he's being fed bad information by Jorrah and Daenerys's handmaidens, so it's not entirely his own fault.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    To be honest, most people who die in a zombie die from stupidity, so it's not like the last two examples are exclusive to those series.
    Yeah but WD specifically has them develop or run into effective strategies and then abandon them after the season.

    Spikes and cables are effective and easy to set up anti-zombie devices so they never use them again, pits and trenches stop zombies and cars so they never dig them after the governor dies, walls get pushed over so they never reinforce the new ones, zombie goop and headless zombies let you move safely so they don't do either of those again.

    Alexandria should have been a defense in depth of trenches, old power lines hanging at chest height, spike walls, massively fortified barriers and observation towers. A pit of headless zombies to make forays safe near the wall, everyone on a buddy system and every house a defensive sub-bastion. After the wolves they probably should have adopted the "shipping containers full of zombies" trap so attacking armies need to waste resources on those.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    To be honest, most people who die in a zombie die from stupidity, so it's not like the last two examples are exclusive to those series.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Yeah but WD specifically has them develop or run into effective strategies and then abandon them after the season.

    Spikes and cables are effective and easy to set up anti-zombie devices so they never use them again, pits and trenches stop zombies and cars so they never dig them after the governor dies, walls get pushed over so they never reinforce the new ones, zombie goop and headless zombies let you move safely so they don't do either of those again.

    Alexandria should have been a defense in depth of trenches, old power lines hanging at chest height, spike walls, massively fortified barriers and observation towers. A pit of headless zombies to make forays safe near the wall, everyone on a buddy system and every house a defensive sub-bastion. After the wolves they probably should have adopted the "shipping containers full of zombies" trap so attacking armies need to waste resources on those.
    It seems like this is an appropriate time to link to the Walking Dead Survival Guide video.
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  9. - Top - End - #39
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    {scrubbed}

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    Yeah but WD specifically has them develop or run into effective strategies and then abandon them after the season.

    Spikes and cables are effective and easy to set up anti-zombie devices so they never use them again, pits and trenches stop zombies and cars so they never dig them after the governor dies, walls get pushed over so they never reinforce the new ones, zombie goop and headless zombies let you move safely so they don't do either of those again.

    Alexandria should have been a defense in depth of trenches, old power lines hanging at chest height, spike walls, massively fortified barriers and observation towers. A pit of headless zombies to make forays safe near the wall, everyone on a buddy system and every house a defensive sub-bastion. After the wolves they probably should have adopted the "shipping containers full of zombies" trap so attacking armies need to waste resources on those.
    This is why I have a grand total of eight locks, five deadbolts, a combination key and three padlocks on my front door. I suppose I could spend some of my limited time and resources to enrich my life, but there's no such thing as "safe enough".
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-10 at 05:33 PM.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Characters who died because they were dumb-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    To be honest, most people who die in a zombie die from stupidity, so it's not like the last two examples are exclusive to those series.
    I don't mind people acting stupid in stress situation, or when dealing with situation that goes outside their field of expertise.

    But in the above example, it's Freakkin' W. H. O. Doctors . People with protocols and equipment meant to prevent an outbreak within their own facilities.
    Last edited by Cikomyr; 2020-01-10 at 05:11 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    The undead are ineffective threats once the shock period is over, so they have to keep using either character carelessness or extreme misfortune to keep the stakes alive.

    Re horror movies I think we should disqualify people that would require meta knowledge to know there's a threat. Last time I investigated a scream and loud bang at night, it was a mouse, not a vampire.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerMug Paladin View Post
    This is why I have a grand total of eight locks, five deadbolts, a combination key and three padlocks on my front door.
    Must really suck when you've just set off for work and realise you left something at home.
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeerMug Paladin View Post
    {scrub the post, scrub the quote}


    This is why I have a grand total of eight locks, five deadbolts, a combination key and three padlocks on my front door. I suppose I could spend some of my limited time and resources to enrich my life, but there's no such thing as "safe enough".
    I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic with me or not, but if the options are dying horribly and almost certainly or take reasonable precautions people tend to take the precautions. Hence medieval castles made by hand crafted stones. They also had a back-hoe and other construction vehicles so "big trench/moat" isn't that difficult and invalidates most enemy strategies.

    My personal defense system is big dogs and a handgun, the dogs hear things I can't and warn off most people. The gun is for dedicated assailants. More then that is overkill for my life, but if I was rich and famous guards and defenses would become more obvious.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2020-01-10 at 05:33 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr View Post
    I don't mind people acting stupid in stress situation, or when dealing with situation that goes outside their field of expertise.

    But in the above example, it's Freakkin' W. H. O. Doctors . People with protocols and equipment meant to prevent an outbreak within their own facilities.
    Though I honestly don't remember that, World War Z is a particular case in terms of Zombie fiction insofar as it's more about the incompetence of States dealing with large-scale emerging crises. Rather than, say, parodying consumer culture or setting up a scenario for a kind of survivalist power fantasy.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    Though I honestly don't remember that, World War Z is a particular case in terms of Zombie fiction insofar as it's more about the incompetence of States dealing with large-scale emerging crises. Rather than, say, parodying consumer culture or setting up a scenario for a kind of survivalist power fantasy.
    "incompetence" in the sense that the characters are forced to act in a completely stupid and unbelievable way by the author. I wouldn't take it as any sort of valid commentary on real world states reacting to a crisis.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    I find badly designed facilities to be even more irritating than individual stupidity. The latter is something that can be forgiven because everybody is stupid sometimes. The former is not forgivable because the facilities are SUPPOSED to be idiot proof. That's the whole point.

    Worst case I can recall was the episode of Doctor Who with the aliens that can tell the future. A lab researching incredibly dangerous biochemicals has human stupidity cause the initial problem, but gives a reasonable cause for it - one of the scientists was hung-over and made a stupid mistake because he wasn't thinking straight. Fair enough.

    But then we find out that the lab regularly vents the entire contents of the non-quarantine zone into the outside air, regardless of any contaminants that may be in the air. WHAT. That is the exact OPPOSITE of how it is supposed to be designed! Even on a regular chemical plant buildings are designed to be air tight so that in the event of a leak they can be sealed. A bio-chemical lab researching stuff that could end all life on Earth doesn't have the same capability?

    I say let the Vogons build their hyperspace bypass. Nothing of value would be lost, and humanity with that level of intelligence will wipe themselves out sooner or later anyway.

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    Default Re: Characters who died because they were dumb-

    I'm sure the lab has that exact capability. On the stuff in the quarantine zone, which is where said bio-agent should be in the first place.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Has anybody mentioned Romeo and Juliet killing themselves because they thought that the other one was dead yet?

    Or Dicaprio's character from Titanic freezing to death because he was too stupid to climb onto a piece of wreckage that was easily big enough to comfortably hold both him and that other dude's fiancee
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    I'm sure the lab has that exact capability. On the stuff in the quarantine zone, which is where said bio-agent should be in the first place.
    Except I just described how even existing chemical plant facilities (who work with far less toxic stuff) have better safety systems. And those safety systems are covering the office workers. So the HR department at a chemical plant making weedkiller has better gas containment capability than a ultra-high tech biolab working on stuff that can end all life on Earth.

    Like I said: Vogons. Hyper-space bypass.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Or Dicaprio's character from Titanic freezing to death because he was too stupid to climb onto a piece of wreckage that was easily big enough to comfortably hold both him and that other dude's fiancee
    I'd argue for "too weak from the cold water to climb on," even if the door could still stay afloat with both of them on.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Has anybody mentioned Romeo and Juliet killing themselves because they thought that the other one was dead yet?
    That was only Romeo. By the time Juliet woke up from her coma, I am pretty sure Romeo was really dead.

    Of course, the whole idea was to make it look like Juliet was dead, so Romeo wasn't exactly stupid for believing her to be dead. Her whole family believed it, too.

    I see Romeo and Juliet more as having died because their families were stupid - they were told right at the beginning of the play to stop the fighting and talk things out like mature adults.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohandas View Post
    Has anybody mentioned Romeo and Juliet killing themselves because they thought that the other one was dead yet?

    Or Dicaprio's character from Titanic freezing to death because he was too stupid to climb onto a piece of wreckage that was easily big enough to comfortably hold both him and that other dude's fiancee
    Everyone always complains about the horizontal area of the door in Titanic, but was the thickness of the wood enough to provide buoyancy to two bodies' worth of weight?

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    That was only Romeo. By the time Juliet woke up from her coma, I am pretty sure Romeo was really dead.

    Of course, the whole idea was to make it look like Juliet was dead, so Romeo wasn't exactly stupid for believing her to be dead. Her whole family believed it, too.

    I see Romeo and Juliet more as having died because their families were stupid - they were told right at the beginning of the play to stop the fighting and talk things out like mature adults.
    You’re not wrong. But Rom and Jules are pretty stupid regardless. Hell the play even points out this is Rom’s second big depressing rollercoaster lost love he’s had in as many weeks.

    As Shakespeare fan, I have always hated this play. It only works because literally everyone in the cast is an idiot. Except maybe Tybalt. I mean sure he’s a violent unstable lunatic. But he consistently and unapologetically works toward his goal. And at least he doesn’t get all weepy that being a violent unstable lunatic killed him. Unlike some other whiners in the play. Looking at you, Mercutio. I don’t care how cool your weird speech about throat slitting faeries is. You got in a sword fight and you got stabbed. That’s what happens when you get in sword fights. This is your fault, don’t go cursing both houses because you got yourself into this mess.

    Anyway. Dumbest character death I’ve ever seen may very well be the guy that attacked Titus Pullo while he was in an armed escort bringing Antony to the Senate house to use his veto. In the amazing first season of Rome. What was gonna do? Charge directly at a bunch of trained soldiers and instantly get hacked to death? Why yes. That’s exactly what he did. And this idiot unintentionally caused the civil war.

    Also from the show. Mark Antony, sure his actual death was suicide because he ran out of options. However, the second season could just be called “Let’s watch Marky over here completely mess up everything in his life.” And the great thing is a lot of it is accurate. Mark Antony really was that stupid.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Everyone always complains about the horizontal area of the door in Titanic, but was the thickness of the wood enough to provide buoyancy to two bodies' worth of weight?
    IIRC the Mythbusters determined that it was

    Quote Originally Posted by Themrys View Post
    That was only Romeo. By the time Juliet woke up from her coma, I am pretty sure Romeo was really dead.

    Of course, the whole idea was to make it look like Juliet was dead, so Romeo wasn't exactly stupid for believing her to be dead. Her whole family believed it, too.
    Nonetheless they were still stupid for killing themselbes over it.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daimbert View Post
    I'm not sure how much you're just kidding around here, but there are lots of cases in horror movies where this isn't the case. Anyone who dies before they have any idea that there's a threat (everyone in the first Friday the 13th movie, for example, and most of them in the sequels) didn't die stupidly. Also anyone who chooses to die to buy time or to get the heroine and/or the people who might actually be able to stop the killer permanently didn't die stupidly (Nancy's death in the third Nightmare on Elm Street is an example of this).

    There are, however, indeed a number of cases where the people die because they were being idiotic. But most of those are either that the character is overly skeptical and should have known better based on what they'd seen, or cases of bad writing.
    In fairness, by Friday the 13th part 4 (and going forward to 6 and 7) going to Crystal Lake IS inherently stupid. Every group that has gone there gets wiped out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saph View Post
    I think Prometheus beats most of these.

    The crew of the ship hit Darwin Award levels of stupidity, not once, but over and over again. Just to pick one example: two of the characters get split up from the rest of the crew and end up back in an abandoned alien structure just in time to see some small mutated worm-like creatures emerging from black goop. The creatures look and sound like hissing jet-black cobras with too many teeth.

    One of the characters decides to crouch down next to the cobra-thing and stroke it.

    His profession? He's a biologist.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    In fairness, by Friday the 13th part 4 (and going forward to 6 and 7) going to Crystal Lake IS inherently stupid. Every group that has gone there gets wiped out.



    Tack on Covenant. Here's a brand new planet that we haven't scouted, tested, etc. And we will walk around here with no protective gear randomly smelling the flora.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    These flow beautifully with your signature.
    Thanks! My friends say it sums me up nicely.

    These same friends got me a t-shirt for Christmas that says

    "In my defense, I was left unsupervised".
    "That's a horrible idea! What time?"

    T-Shirt given to me by a good friend.. "in fairness, I was unsupervised at the time".

  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    So I'm reading through the old Legion of Super-Heroes stories, and ran across a minor villainness named 'Charma', who had a power she couldn't switch off- men would become hypnotically infatuated with her, to the point of making efforts to rescue her that in fiction are normally reserved for true loved ones being in danger, and women would become homicidally enraged at her. She was eventually defeated, put in a power-dampening rig (which did nothing to impede her mobility or vision, just shut her powers off), and shipped off to prison. The next time she is mentioned, we find she died off panel because she deliberately broke out of her power-suppressing rig.

    In an all-women's prison.

    While knowing full well what her powers did to women.
    Knowing nothing at all about this character, that sounds like someone decided this was a bad character and they wanted her killed off so that she wouldn't be brought back in the future. Being that it's superheroes that is of course no guarantee that she would stay dead, but I'd say it's at least a statement of intent on that author's part.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSummoner View Post
    Re: Viserys - It's heavily implied he's being fed bad information by Jorrah and Daenerys's handmaidens, so it's not entirely his own fault.
    Perhaps, but if so they were feeding him that info because he's a dangerous, unstable lunatic who represented a constant threat to Daenerys, either personally or because he would inevitably do something stupid that would have bad consequences for her. He made himself enough of a danger that her protectors decided they had to get rid of him.
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomandtish View Post
    In fairness, by Friday the 13th part 4 (and going forward to 6 and 7) going to Crystal Lake IS inherently stupid. Every group that has gone there gets wiped out.
    Well, having just watched them:

    In part 4, they weren't at the camp, but in cottages and houses that were simply on the lake or in the area. Since the town itself was never abandoned, that's not as unreasonable, especially given that 4 takes place literally right after 3, so they were either there already or had already made plans to go there.

    In part 5, it's many years later, enough time for things to have died down and people to have relegated it to legend, and also to believe that the killer had been caught and killed.

    In part 6, Jason WAS dead, and it's only the idiocy of Tommy Jarvis that ends up with him being resurrected (the first time he's actually the supernatural beast that we know him for).

    In part 7, the main characters, at least, are there seemingly because the doctor wants the link to Jason, but they also have a link to that specific place which would be critical in helping the girl with her issues. The camp counselors don't have as good an excuse, but then again everyone thought that Jason or the killer was dead again and it's only a completely unrelated incident that even brings him back.

    They probably should stop trying to revive Camp Crystal Lake, certainly, but the lunacy of doing that is lampshaded as far back as three and in six, I think.
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    Ned Stark "I am so honorable that I am going to tell this evil woman that I know that she cheated on the king with her own brother BEFORE I tell the king anything about it, while the king is away on a place where a murder can be easily explained away as a hunting accident. Then, when the expected fallout of that happens, I am going to put my trust (and my life, and my children's lives) in the hands of a man who has told me that he cannot be trusted".

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