NPCs (attempting to) Romance PCs?

[Lord Lemming]

Players: Have you ever seen NPCs fall for, flirt with, or attempt to romance player characters?

DMs: Have you ever had any of your NPCs do this? For non-creepy reasons?

Everyone: As a DM, how terrible of an idea is it for me to do this? I'm not interested in any of my players that way, and I would only be doing this for the potential role-playing opportunities - and, knowing my players, the potential hilarity that is likely to ensue.

[Koo Rehtorb]

that would depend on both you and your players

[False God]

As a DM I've done it, usually in the following:
A: as an attempt to seduce the players to get them to do something.
B: as an attempt to create some kind of political alliance.
C: for sillyness.

How does it go? I dunno, pretty well. Some players play along. Some players get awkward. Some players refuse. I always try to make it tasteful, even when it's silly.

[LordCdrMilitant]

Players: Have you ever seen NPCs fall for, flirt with, or attempt to romance player characters?

DMs: Have you ever had any of your NPCs do this? For non-creepy reasons?

Everyone: As a DM, how terrible of an idea is it for me to do this? I'm not interested in any of my players that way, and I would only be doing this for the potential role-playing opportunities - and, knowing my players, the potential hilarity that is likely to ensue.

Uhh...

Yes.
No.
If you have to ask the internet for validation, then the answer is "Definitely Terrible".

[Lord Lemming]

Uhh...

Yes.
No.
If you have to ask the internet for validation, then the answer is "Definitely Terrible".

Not asking for validation, but to get opinions. I've grown out of the habit of asking people what their opinion on something is until someone gives me the answer I want. Now I just assume that whatever answer I like the least is most probably the right one...

Anyways, thanks for your input.

[King of Nowhere]

it really depends on your gaming party.
some people get creeped off. some people find it fun.
that's why internet advice has to be taken with a grain of salt.

personally i had an npc make avances on the party. it was mostly played for fun. she was a narcissist who fancied herself more important than she is, the party was super-important by that time, and she considered that becoming a lover (or even just occasional adventure) of some party members would increase her worth. I mean, when someone assassinated her with expensive poison, she was actually flattered that someone may think her so important to spend so many resources on it. Her last words were on the line of "this is so cool". she was sure that she'd be raised, but it'd still cost her a level
she was also a skilled spy specialized in seducing people and getting information (or plot items) out of them in bed, so the party understandaly declined.

it was played for laugh, and it reached its intended effect. the fact that this npc would have genuinely acted like that also factored in.

[Psyren]

Yes, if only so that I can disguise the inevitable succubi and vampires doing the same thing in disguise.

[Grek]

I did it, but only because we were doing a magic school thing and we were doing a school dance thing and the other players paired off, so I generated NPCs to give the odd player out an excuse to attend. (Also because having players get hit on by the literally invisible kid is funny.)

[Satinavian]

I have experienced it as player and done it as DM. Never was a problem.

Overall it is still a somewhat rare thing that happens maybe once in a dozen sessions. And of course not every PC is actually open to start a romantic relationship or a small love affair. Or is interested in this particular NPCs. So often it doesn't lead anywhere, but sometimes it does.

[Kaptin Keen]

Hmm ... sex and seduction are not the same thing. At least, one can be done fully clothed.

As a GM, I don't think I've ever used seduction except as a trap. It has only ever resulted in betrayal and ambush.

As a player, in suitable games, I've used sex and seduction enough to make my GM's blush.

Then, there is of course the third option - simply informing the table that 'if nothing else happens at the Green Dragon Inn that night, Borgrim will do his utmost the charm the prettiest young lady he can find.' But that barely counts - right?

[LordCdrMilitant]

Not asking for validation, but to get opinions. I've grown out of the habit of asking people what their opinion on something is until someone gives me the answer I want. Now I just assume that whatever answer I like the least is most probably the right one...

Anyways, thanks for your input.

In that case...

I still think it's bad for the NPC's to pursue the characters unprompted. It just seems kind of creepy.

That said, I don't have a problem with the player characters pursuing NPC's, on their own initiative, because it was the player's choice to introduce a romantic scenario.

[M@XWeru]

I have done it in the past, but I'd only do it with players I know very well. Ultimately, it's a matter of whether your players feel that they can trust you with this sort of thing - whether something is creepy or acceptable usually has more to do with context and presentation, rather than the basic concept. How well do you know your players? How well do your players know you? Those are questions only you can answer.

[Chaos Jackal]

Well, I guess it depends on the table, but I've never had issue personally.

I DM rarely, and have never set an NPC on a player in a romantic manner. But I wouldn't have a problem to do so. I just never had a situation which I believed dictated that.

But as a player, I've had at least two of my characters being hit on (and they ultimately responded), and one more where it was basically mutual in-game attraction. And I've seen quite a few of my fellow players get the romantic attention of an NPC. That's been the case in a number of tables, each with different people. We're rolling with the punches (or kisses, for that matter).

Romantic relationships are a normal part of a person's life, why wouldn't they be part of an NPC's?

Can it get awkward? Probably, though I've never felt like that. I am not my character. The NPC isn't the DM. And I don't have an issue playing pretend flirt. We are playing pretend murder, deception and cheesy heroism half the time, I figure that's worse. So we have our romantic interaction(s), and have a laugh when the performance/dexterity/fortitude check is a 3.

It's ultimately a know your players matter. But in my experience it's neither uncommon nor all that embarassing. Just remember that it's a game.

[DigoDragon]

It really comes down to asking your players if they're ok with it. I've had an NPC flirt with a PC and it became an enduring, happy relationship over many sessions of the campaign. But I worked out questions with the PC ahead of time to be sure he'd be alright with it and what lines he didn't want to cross.

Always ask your players. Once you know their preference, then it's easy to work with them on a great romance story.

[CombatBunny]

Romance is part of life, so I don’t see anything wrong with portraying it on the table.

As a GM, I don’t plan romances (unless it is a trap or the NPC has double intentions as others have mentioned), I try to handle them in a natural way. Knowing your NPCs motivations and being in their skin will show you if certain NPC would feel attracted to a party member or if certain actions would trigger its interest.

As a recommendation, don’t push the players. Let them know that a NPC has a crush on them, but if they reject it don’t turn the NPC into a harasser.

And the same goes for PCs who want to advance with NPCs. In trying to be impartial I let them roll a couple of times to see if they are corresponded (with bonus and penalties depending on the situation and the personality of the NPC). If they fail then it’s over, they have no chance with the NCP, although if a considerable length of time passes, I could let them roll again.

[Lord Lemming]

it really depends on your gaming party.
some people get creeped off. some people find it fun.
that's why internet advice has to be taken with a grain of salt.

personally i had an npc make avances on the party. it was mostly played for fun. she was a narcissist who fancied herself more important than she is, the party was super-important by that time, and she considered that becoming a lover (or even just occasional adventure) of some party members would increase her worth. I mean, when someone assassinated her with expensive poison, she was actually flattered that someone may think her so important to spend so many resources on it. Her last words were on the line of "this is so cool". she was sure that she'd be raised, but it'd still cost her a level
she was also a skilled spy specialized in seducing people and getting information (or plot items) out of them in bed, so the party understandaly declined.

it was played for laugh, and it reached its intended effect. the fact that this npc would have genuinely acted like that also factored in.

Yeah, this is about the kind of scenario I was envisioning.

In that case...

I still think it's bad for the NPC's to pursue the characters unprompted. It just seems kind of creepy.

That said, I don't have a problem with the player characters pursuing NPC's, on their own initiative, because it was the player's choice to introduce a romantic scenario.

This makes sense. I can very easily see how it would make someone uncomfortable, especially since in this game they don't really know what the rules or the limits are. There's something of a power dynamic that the DM has over the table, and the idea that the DM might push something that no one is comfortable with could leave people walking on eggshells.

It really comes down to asking your players if they're ok with it. I've had an NPC flirt with a PC and it became an enduring, happy relationship over many sessions of the campaign. But I worked out questions with the PC ahead of time to be sure he'd be alright with it and what lines he didn't want to cross.

Always ask your players. Once you know their preference, then it's easy to work with them on a great romance story.

This also makes sense, and kinda fits with LordCdrMilitant's take on the subject. As long as the player has 'yea' or 'nay' say on whether or not cheesy romance is attempted, the potential for harm seems limited.

[Slipperychicken]

It's fine. If you aren't sure whether your players will be okay with it, just ask them about it.

Personally I don't have a whole lot of interest in romance subplots, but it's not particularly bad or anything. Usually it just goes right over my head anyway. I've had sessions where I only realized an NPC was trying to flirt weeks later OOC. But if a GM explicitly tells me he wants to do a romance thing as a quest motivation (think Lancelot rescuing Guinevere from Maleagant) I'm down for it.

[Cygnia]

Fade to black is your friend

[Jay R]

Don’t make the mistake of thinking this issue is primarily about sex or romance. It’s easier to see the way out of you treat it as just a specific example of a general issue: what to do if a player is uncomfortable?

If you are doing something that makes a player uncomfortable, stop doing it.

I once put the minis for giant spiders on the table, and saw in one player’s face that she was extremely afraid of spiders. What was intended to be a major encounter instantly became the wimpiest spiders ever. They each died on one hit, and were off the table in less than two minutes.

I didn’t mention the problem at the table, which would only have made it worse for her.

Similarly, if any action you start as DM makes the player uncomfortable, send the NPC away and don’t do it again. And if you are reasonably empathetic, or if you know your friends, you should be able to tell that it makes them uncomfortable soon enough to not cause a big problem.

[Lord Lemming]

Don’t make the mistake of thinking this issue is primarily about sex or romance. It’s easier to see the way out of you treat it as just a specific example of a general issue: what to do if a player is uncomfortable?

If you are doing something that makes a player uncomfortable, stop doing it.

I once put the minis for giant spiders on the table, and saw in one player’s face that she was extremely afraid of spiders. What was intended to be a major encounter instantly became the wimpiest spiders ever. They each died on one hit, and were off the table in less than two minutes.

I didn’t mention the problem at the table, which would only have made it worse for her.

Similarly, if any action you start as DM makes the player uncomfortable, send the NPC away and don’t do it again. And if you are reasonably empathetic, or if you know your friends, you should be able to tell that it makes them uncomfortable soon enough to not cause a big problem.

This makes sense, and I think it hits on the core of the issue I was thinking about.

[Segev]

There's a character in my Exalted game who has Enchanting Features and a maxed-out Appearance and is a social build with everything turned up as high as it can go. She has a LOT of suitors, would-be suitors, and other NPCs who are more than mildly interested in at least attempting to catch her romantic interest. It's mostly light flirting and (not so) subtle signs that they're infatuated, unless the charcter IS a creep, in which case, well, the descriptive text makes sure to get that across. (Using words like "leer" and talking about how he wiggles his eyebrows, for example.)

As a player, I had a character who developed an unrequited crush on another PC, because he's big into knowing stuff and adventurously pursues new things, and she was a mysterious young woman who knew a lot of neat things and shared certain interests of his, and they worked well together and had fun. He wasn't subtle about it, hanging on her words and looking in her direction when it was reasonable to do so, seeking to spend time with her, etc., but he wasn't doing the "I'm in love and I know it" shenanigans of a teenaged male: he wasn't avoiding her gaze, or blushing when he saw her (unless, you know, blushing is appropriate just based on circumstances), or stuttering nervously, or doing outrageous things to try to impress her. He wasn't asking her on dates or the like, either.

So the rest of the party thought he was crushing, and crushing hard, but was oblivious to it.

This led to my favorite conversation in an RPG that I've been in to date.

The girl sat my character down on the couch, and worked herself up into telling him, "You seem to have a crush on me." The other PCs were one room over, watching from hiding, and everyone was braced for denials, bluster, flushing, etc.

Instead, my character said, "I know. I'm sorry, I can't help it. You're awesome."

After she did the mental equivalent of catching herself taking one more step than there is on the staircase, she braced herself for the next bombshell and his likely heartbroken reaction. "And I'm gay."

"I know. It's kind-of obvious. Doesn't change how I feel about you. It's why I haven't asked you out, though. Unless you want to give it a try?"

She turned him down, once again shocked by his non-emotional reaction. He gave a wistful sigh and agreed, and they stayed friends.

He would have loved to figure out a way to get her interested in him, but he knew it was highly unlikely. (If magical sex-changing were on the table, he might've tried it, but he wouldn't have been sure it was something he'd want to stick with. But trying it out would be a new experience, which would be fun!)


Anyway, playing romance at the table is mostly a matter of determining what the players are comfortable with, and what the nature of the romantic interest really is. WHY is the NPC falling for the PC? This should stem from both the NPC's nature and from the PC, and why the PC appeals to the NPC. And how the NPC pursues it.

[Telonius]

A few campaigns ago, I was playing a middle-age Shifter. His character was that one shady uncle everybody seems to have; always into some probably-technically-legal scheme. Very high opinion of himself, assumed that everybody was into him, so he was a horrible flirt. The DM used this to his advantage a few times, dropping plot hooks instead of romance with lots of jokes at my character's expense. (I was 100% in favor of the jokes). But eventually we were in a situation without a plot hook. He was chatting up the barmaid, and meeting with some success. I keep RPing, waiting for the shoe to drop - she turns into a Hag, or reveals that she's a spy, or some other ridiculous thing. So I'm adjusting my bowtie, describing heading up the stairs, the whole nine yards. Eventually the DM's face is totally beet-red, and says, "Okay, I'm really not comfortable describing that any more." Me: "What? You mean - fer God's sakes, [DM], the last six times were plot hooks!" The rest of the table was rolling on the ground laughing about it. He thinks on it a second. "... oh. I guess they were..." and joins in the laughing. He really hadn't realized that he'd been doing that until right then.

[Segev]

A few campaigns ago, I was playing a middle-age Shifter. His character was that one shady uncle everybody seems to have; always into some probably-technically-legal scheme. Very high opinion of himself, assumed that everybody was into him, so he was a horrible flirt. The DM used this to his advantage a few times, dropping plot hooks instead of romance with lots of jokes at my character's expense. (I was 100% in favor of the jokes). But eventually we were in a situation without a plot hook. He was chatting up the barmaid, and meeting with some success. I keep RPing, waiting for the shoe to drop - she turns into a Hag, or reveals that she's a spy, or some other ridiculous thing. So I'm adjusting my bowtie, describing heading up the stairs, the whole nine yards. Eventually the DM's face is totally beet-red, and says, "Okay, I'm really not comfortable describing that any more." Me: "What? You mean - fer God's sakes, [DM], the last six times were plot hooks!" The rest of the table was rolling on the ground laughing about it. He thinks on it a second. "... oh. I guess they were..." and joins in the laughing. He really hadn't realized that he'd been doing that until right then.

Tell me he ruined the next morning by telling the girl, when they woke up, "I'm glad you didn't turn out to be a hag."

[Slipperychicken]

I once put the minis for giant spiders on the table, and saw in one player’s face that she was extremely afraid of spiders. What was intended to be a major encounter instantly became the wimpiest spiders ever. They each died on one hit, and were off the table in less than two minutes.

I didn’t mention the problem at the table, which would only have made it worse for her.

Agree, and also a side-note to this: They also make sheets and surveys nowadays were players can check off or write-in content that they don't want to deal with in games. Then a GM can just look them over every now and again to be sure he isn't going to accidentally re-traumatize his players. Especially with something unintuitive like a recovering alcoholic player who will have a rough time with elaborate descriptions of drink.

They can be handy when setting up games with strangers. So if applicant Ron doesn't feel like being triggered by spiders in-game, he can mark that down, and you can make any adjustments needed. Which could mean anything from 'well I guess I'll change that spider fight' to 'umm this campaign is all about spiders, so maybe Ron is better off sitting this one out'.

This is one example of what I'm talking about.

Spoiler: RPG Consent Checklist

Show

[Lord Lemming]

Agree, and also a side-note to this: They also make sheets and surveys nowadays were players can check off or write-in content that they don't want to deal with in games. Then a GM can just look them over every now and again to be sure he isn't going to accidentally re-traumatize his players. Especially with something unintuitive like a recovering alcoholic player who will have a rough time with elaborate descriptions of drink.

They can be handy when setting up games with strangers. So if applicant Ron doesn't feel like being triggered by spiders in-game, he can mark that down, and you can make any adjustments needed. Which could mean anything from 'well I guess I'll change that spider fight' to 'umm this campaign is all about spiders, so maybe Ron is better off sitting this one out'.

This is one example of what I'm talking about.

Spoiler: RPG Consent Checklist

Show

...Huh, I had no idea this was a thing. I don't think it'll be necessary with my particular group, but I think I'll hold onto this.

[Quertus]

If you are doing something that makes a player uncomfortable, stop doing it.

I once put the minis for giant spiders on the table, and saw in one player’s face that she was extremely afraid of spiders. What was intended to be a major encounter instantly became the wimpiest spiders ever. They each died on one hit, and were off the table in less than two minutes.

I didn’t mention the problem at the table, which would only have made it worse for her.

It was YOU!

I'm too senile to remember how I learned this very important lesson, but I loved your story, and can remember it, and use it as my goto example whenever this comes up.

I hope you don't mind.

But, yeah, I completely agree with your sentiment here.

As a player, I had a character who developed an unrequited crush on another PC, because he's big into knowing stuff and adventurously pursues new things, and she was a mysterious young woman who knew a lot of neat things and shared certain interests of his, and they worked well together and had fun. He wasn't subtle about it, hanging on her words and looking in her direction when it was reasonable to do so, seeking to spend time with her, etc., but he wasn't doing the "I'm in love and I know it" shenanigans of a teenaged male: he wasn't avoiding her gaze, or blushing when he saw her (unless, you know, blushing is appropriate just based on circumstances), or stuttering nervously, or doing outrageous things to try to impress her. He wasn't asking her on dates or the like, either.

So the rest of the party thought he was crushing, and crushing hard, but was oblivious to it.

This led to my favorite conversation in an RPG that I've been in to date.

The girl sat my character down on the couch, and worked herself up into telling him, "You seem to have a crush on me." The other PCs were one room over, watching from hiding, and everyone was braced for denials, bluster, flushing, etc.

Instead, my character said, "I know. I'm sorry, I can't help it. You're awesome."

After she did the mental equivalent of catching herself taking one more step than there is on the staircase, she braced herself for the next bombshell and his likely heartbroken reaction. "And I'm gay."

"I know. It's kind-of obvious. Doesn't change how I feel about you. It's why I haven't asked you out, though. Unless you want to give it a try?"

She turned him down, once again shocked by his non-emotional reaction. He gave a wistful sigh and agreed, and they stayed friends.

He would have loved to figure out a way to get her interested in him, but he knew it was highly unlikely. (If magical sex-changing were on the table, he might've tried it, but he wouldn't have been sure it was something he'd want to stick with. But trying it out would be a new experience, which would be fun!)

That sounds awesome! I don't have such a cool story, but I know exactly how you feel. That's also the type of thing I aim for in RPGs.

[DigoDragon]

And the same goes for PCs who want to advance with NPCs. In trying to be impartial I let them roll a couple of times to see if they are corresponded (with bonus and penalties depending on the situation and the personality of the NPC). If they fail then it’s over, they have no chance with the NCP, although if a considerable length of time passes, I could let them roll again.

Does buying them dinner grant Advantage? ;)

[Slipperychicken]

Does buying them dinner grant Advantage? ;)

Only if you spend at least (target's hit dice) x 100gp on it

[zinycor]

On this the most important would be to have the player buy into the idea. Even better if it was their idea to begin with. Otherwise, I don't think it would work or even be fun.

[Chauncymancer]

Yes, if only so that I can disguise the inevitable succubi and vampires doing the same thing in disguise.

Once one of my players made the observation (I consumed a lot of noir at the time) that any NPC flirting with a party member should be immediately shot dead, as they were inevitably either the monster of the week or one of the villains.