Shadow Sorcerer Monk, build idea/help. Would like your thoughts and help.

[Nikushimi]

I'm not sure if this is unique in terms of a build, but I thought of an idea. A shadow sorcerer monk.

That is to say a Shadow Sorcerer and Way of the Shadow Monk. Using the Shadowblade spell.

So, before I begin I had this idea of a character who was born as a Shadow Sorcerer to an order of Monks. This order of Monks is, of course, Shadow Monks. They see this as a blessing to be born one of Shadows, and they are the ones trained in the Way of Shadows within this order.

That's a rough background for this character to explain why they are a sorcerer and a monk. A rough draft. Will be ironed out later.

Anyways, this characters ultimate goal in terms of mechanics and abilities is to be a level 12 character. 6 in Shadow Sorcerer and 6 in Shadow Monk. This is to gain the Shadow Hound from the Sorcerer and the Shadow Step from the Monk. Using the Shadow Sorcerer they use their darkness ability, cast Shadowblade, then Shadow Step to an enemy and attack. Granted, this grants double advantage, so a bit redundant, but still. The idea is to be able to move around in their darkness or going from shadow to shadow using this spell and their monk abilities to strike the target.

To understand this build I had a few questions. Mainly...will this work and is their an easier way to do this?

The idea is a character that manifests a Shadow Blade then teleports into and out of shadows to attack while wielding shadow magics, and I liked the idea of summoning a shadow hound. However, you can't teleport into shadows until level 14 as a Shadow Sorcerer. Really late game stuff. My games don't really last that long, but I hope so. So, I ended up looking into things and realized that Shadow Monk can do relatively the same thing at 6th level. So, to combine the two I decided going 6 in each would get what I want by level 12. 2 levels before the Shadow Sorcerer could with the added benefit of using a bonus action to attack with Shadow Step.

So the main questions I want answered to see if this will work is simple. Sorry if I was redundant in getting to my questions.

1. Can shadowblade be considered a monk weapon? It technically follows the demands of a Monk weapon. A shortsword (which the blade could manifest as) or a simple weapon, and the spell says it is a simple weapon that you are proficient in, so it could technically be a monk weapon, yes? People talk about using Kensai, but why? Seems it can be used right away as a monk weapon if you had the spell.
2. Can you do this earlier in levels? Is it possible?
3. Will this even work as a concept and is their an easier way to do such a build?
4. What else would you suggest for such a build? Spells, feats, items, etc?
5. How should I go about advancement? In other words, at what levels should I take the different levels in these classes?

Thanks in advance!

The character will start out as a Shadow Sorcerer and then Shadow Monk. So, at level 2 they will be level 1 Shadow Sorcerer and 1 Shadow Monk. Or, should I wait till I get the Shadow Blade spell at level 3 Shadow Sorcerer before going monk?

Also, this may be an NPC instead if I am unable to get a character to the appropriate level. I am creating many campaigns at the moment and need to fill in my ranks with NPCs, so my final question is this. Would this be an interesting NPC that you as a player may be interested in meeting? As an NPC they would be a character that was chosen to lead their sect or family because of being born of the shadows. Could even be an antagonist.

Anyways, I'm rambling. Thanks in advance again!

[RogueJK]

I don't see a half-Sorcerer/half-Monk working well at all.

First, Monks are already pretty MAD, needing a high DEX and WIS, and a decent CON. Adding a high CHA in there is quite a stretch.

Second, neither class really complements each other. There are a number of multiclass options that synergize well together, but aside from the thematic similarities of both having Shadow-related subclass options, I'm not seeing really anything between these two classes' abilities that works all that well together.

Some multiclass builds take 50% of one class and 50% of another (or 30/70 or 90/10 or etc.) and together make a 100% useful character. But other multiclass builds with two very non-synergistic classes takes 50% of one class and 50% of another and leaves you with just a 50% useful character.

Because Monk is very level-dependent, with many of their abilities being heavily reliant on Monk levels to keep up with enemy advancement, this means multiclassing hurts them more than many other classes. And being a spellcaster, Sorcerer is likewise very level-dependent, relying heavily on Sorcerer levels to keep your spellcasting in line with enemy advancement. Splitting either class with an almost completely non-synergistic other class will hurt. A lot.


So while I agree that it seems like a cool Shadow-themed character concept on the surface, I don't think such a 50/50 multiclass build will work well at all in execution. If you're dead-set on the Shadow Sorcerer/Monk combo, I think you'd be better served with something like a primary Shadow Monk with just a middling 13-14 CHA who dips Shadow Sorcerer for 1 level only, to get some shadow-related fluff, a bonus death save ability, darkvision, 4 utility cantrips, and Absorb Elements and Shield spells. It would still hurt your Monk advancement a bit, but you'd still be viable.

[Nikushimi]

I don't see a half-Sorcerer/half-Monk working well at all.

First, Monks are already pretty MAD, needing a high DEX and WIS, and a decent CON. Adding a high CHA in there is quite a stretch.

dips Shadow Sorcerer for 1 level only, to get some shadow-related fluff, a bonus death save ability, darkvision, 4 utility cantrips, and Absorb Elements and Shield spells. It would still hurt your Monk advancement a bit, but you'd still be viable.

Wanted to address these two things mainly, but other things as well.

Mainly, the theme I am going for is purely shadows. It started out as a shadow magic user concept from an image I found, and the fact that I REALLY like the Shadow Blade spell, though I wish it was better and was possibly a cantrip, but I digress.

So that's basically how the theme got started. Then, I imagined them being able to go from shadow to shadow and use this Shadow Blade. After reading up on things I found that Shadow Sorcerers don't get that ability till level 14, but Shadow Monks get it at 6th.

Shadow Hound seemed cool as a sort of guardian/"Familiar". Familiar in quotes cause it's not an actual familiar, but you get my point I hope.

So, to me the stat distribution isn't that big of a deal to me in terms of optimization. So being extremely MAD isn't much bothering me since I imagined them having Cha, Dex, and Con as their primary. Strength was probably going to be their dump stat since they would be using Dexterity for their Shadow Blade. Even throwing it sometimes. I've made MAD characters before in 3.5 and so in 5e it doesn't really bother me too much to be a MAD character. After all, this is a pretty MAD character design...ha. Jokes.

That aside, I see what you mean, but dipping just 1 level into Shadow Sorcerer and the rest into Monk wouldn't get me the Shadow Blade spell I want that the build is kind of based around. Aside from the other shadow stuff.

[HPisBS]

I generally love sorcerers, but if you're really all about zipping around with a Shadow Blade, then Warlock 3 (or 4 for the ASI) / Monk X would probably be a far better fit, because:

- That level of MADness means a decent monk is stuck with 13 or 14 Cha, so you only want to cast stuff like Shadow Blade, Mirror Image, or Hex anyway, since they don't include a chance of failure
- Warlock's two 3rd level spell slots recharge on a short rest, just like your ki pts (meaning you get to use Shadow Blade much more often)
- Devil's Sight invocation lets you see through your ki-based Darkness (though concentration means you have to pick between that and your shadow blade)
- Pact of the Chain gets you an actual familiar (a bat, maybe?)
- - Voice of the Chain Master invocation makes your familiar a perma-scout that feeds you info in real time

[Nikushimi]

If you're really all about zipping around with a Shadow Blade, then Warlock 3 (or 4 for the ASI) / Monk X would probably be a far better fit.

- That level of MADness means a decent monk is stuck with 13 or 14 Cha, so you only want to cast stuff like Shadow Blade, Mirror Image, or Hex anyway, since they don't include a chance of failure
- Warlock's two 3rd level spell slots recharge on a short rest, just like your ki pts
- Devil's Sight invocation lets you see through your ki-based Darkness (though concentration means you have to pick between that and your shadow blade)
- Extra perks to fit your tastes

Depends on the rolling for stats. Since our groups roll for our stats with the 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll 1's (once) method. If I roll low, I roll low, but I may not be stuck with such a low Charisma as people may assume. So stats aren't quite my concern, but rather the abilities and theme. I may not have gotten that across, my bad.

Being a Warlock means that they are sort of tied to a patron. Not something I imagined for the character, but having 3rd level spell slots would increase the damage of Shadow Blade without using up spell slots that may be used as something else for a Sorcerer.

But thanks for the insight and suggestion. Gives me some things to think on. Wish that Shadow Walk was an earlier ability, lol.

[HPisBS]

Being a Warlock means that they are sort of tied to a patron. Not something I imagined for the characte....

I feel you there. But, to be fair, the Hexblade has fairly similar flavor:

"You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell—a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow..."

Mechanically, the patron's only real support for your stated concept at low levels is adding Blur to your spell list, but still, it is appropriately fluffy lol.

[Phhase]

If you're allowed to use UA, the Mystic's Mastery of Light and Darkness discipline allows you to summon honest to god Shadows at level 5, which is pretty damn cool.

[Nikushimi]

"You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell—a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow..."

Mechanically, the patron's only real support for your stated concept at low levels is adding Blur to your spell list, but still, it is appropriately fluffy lol.

The only issue with this is that somehow I would need to get my DM to allow the Shadow Blade spell to be my Hexblade Weapon which may be hard to do. Otherwise, why would I use Shadow Blade when I have my Hexblade weapon?

Unless I used the Shadow Blade as a thrown weapon or only when I teleported via shadow. Though Hexblade doesn't get that teleport...I don't think? Lol.

[Nikushimi]

If you're allowed to use UA, the Mystic's Mastery of Light and Darkness discipline allows you to summon honest to god Shadows at level 5, which is pretty damn cool.

Unfortunately I don't think it would be allowed. One of my DM's is a strict no UA content unless it's vetted, and the Mystic is broken as hell in my opinion, and I imagine if they read it they too would agree. The other one...well, I wouldn't want to use the Mystic for the main fact that I think it's a bit broken, but it's a cool concept I hope gets polished later on down the line.

[HPisBS]

The only issue with this is that somehow I would need to get my DM to allow the Shadow Blade spell to be my Hexblade Weapon which may be hard to do. Otherwise, why would I use Shadow Blade when I have my Hexblade weapon?

Despite the archetype being called "Hexblade," the only benefit the actual blade gets is to use Cha for attack and damage rolls, thus letting you be Single Attribute Dependent, rather than MAD. The rest of the meat of the subclass is on the Curse (which doesn't care what you use to attack and kill your target).

Even for a Pact of the Blade HexLock, casting Shadow Blade (in dim light) would be better than relying on his hexblade. (Plus, there are enemies with immunity to psychic dmg)

Mystic... [is] a cool concept I hope gets polished later on down the line.

Sadly, they seem to be trying to fold the Mystic into various existing classes' future archetypes instead.

[CTurbo]

I always love theme over mechanics. It's a great idea so I say give it a try if you can.

My 2 biggest concerns would be

1. It's really MAD. You NEED Dex maxed asap, and Wis and Cha would be both very very important too, and of course you can't dump Con. I would only attempt this will some decently rolled stats as you mentioned was a possibility.

2. How would you level up through both classes and stay viable? Mechanically speaking, your character would be "better" by starting with 5 straight levels in one or the other, but your concept wouldn't come online until late. If you split the progression, you're going to end up suffering in the middle levels like levels 3-7. You wouldn't be a very good Monk or Sorcerer. Are you ok with feeling underpowered for a while in the name of a great concept?

One of the last characters I played was a Monk 3/Warlock 3. I was really really excited about my concept, and I had high rolled stats to back it up, but I still felt relatively underpowered compared to the rest of the group and it was going to stay that way until I hit Monk 5/Warlock 3.


Anyway I say go for it *IF* you have good rolled stats AND you get to start at level 4 or 5 at least so you can already get a head start through the worst part of your character's career.

[Nikushimi]

I always love theme over mechanics. It's a great idea so I say give it a try if you can.

My 2 biggest concerns would be

1. It's really MAD. You NEED Dex maxed asap, and Wis and Cha would be both very very important too, and of course you can't dump Con. I would only attempt this will some decently rolled stats as you mentioned was a possibility.

2. How would you level up through both classes and stay viable? Mechanically speaking, your character would be "better" by starting with 5 straight levels in one or the other, but your concept wouldn't come online until late. If you split the progression, you're going to end up suffering in the middle levels like levels 3-7. You wouldn't be a very good Monk or Sorcerer. Are you ok with feeling underpowered for a while in the name of a great concept? Yes, actually. I have a character, a Eldritch Knight 3/Fey Warlock 2. This happened due to the course of my Fighters experiences and bloodline. Being Half Elf he had some magic in him, but it was latent. As he explored and grew stronger it flourished once he hit 3rd level to become an Eldritch Knight. He had also found a book at this time. It ended up leading him to an encounter with explosives (there was a plan...plan backfired...literally). I was saved by werejackals who were made so by a "gift" from a fey being which is basically a council of fey spirits. Powerful ones. They basically made me a werejackal (limited abilities though, and only at night...also my werejackal form is female, where my half-elf is male...interesting times). This led to this entity to also grant me warlock abilities, so I became a Fey Warlock basically in exchange to bring me back to life, but it could have failed. So, long story short, being an Eldritch Knight 3/Fey Warlock 2 meant I missed out on the ASI/Feat at level 4 and my extra attack at level 5 for my fighter, as well as not having any invocations right away, at least none I want yet. Which left me behind a bit from the other members of my party who gained their 4th and 5th level ability (besides our barbarian who went druid, but for more mechanical reasons than character experience reasons), but I still find it interesting and thematically nice. I'm still pretty effective and have interesting diversity with my spells and abilities.

One of the last characters I played was a Monk 3/Warlock 3. I was really really excited about my concept, and I had high rolled stats to back it up, but I still felt relatively underpowered compared to the rest of the group and it was going to stay that way until I hit Monk 5/Warlock 3.


Anyway I say go for it *IF* you have good rolled stats AND you get to start at level 4 or 5 at least so you can already get a head start through the worst part of your character's career.

So, aside from what I responded to up there...yes, I am okay with being behind as long as my theme and character feel nice. I started playing DnD with a 2nd edition group, and it was heavily combat focused. If you didn't do a lot of damage, or couldn't hold up in battle you were screwed. It got me in a power gaming mindset. I HAD to do damage. I HAD to be good in combat and useful, but after starting 3.5 and eventually 5e, especially with the group for 5th edition, I began to learn that theme and character concepts as well as just interesting character design was better than being optimal. Though, being optimal in your concept of course, but you know what I mean I hope.

Made me appreciate more the roleplaying and theme of the character rather than how much damage I could do or if I could do something extremely well...though, my Ranger Chef from 3.5 was fun to play. SUCKED in melee combat, but his arrows were okay. His animal companion basically was his damage, but boy could he COOK. I think the lowest I could get on a roll was like a 15 or a 20, and that's if I rolled a 2. I had like a +10 or +15 to my cooking whenever I cooked. He basically was raised as a hunter/ranger, and just loved cooking. Loved food. Wanted to open a restaurant in the capital. He eventually did I like to think.

So, to me I don't mind being suboptimal in areas as long as my concept comes through, whatever it is.

[MrStabby]

I dont think the MADness is as bad as it looks if you are prepared to make some sacrifices... by which I mainly mean stunning strike (which, to be fair is a big sacrifice). Low wisdom will impact your armour class bit you can use mage armour and high dex for that anyway.

The issue for me is what happens at higher levels. Does your DM run a high magic loot game? Shadowblade looks pretty cool when everyone is running round with non magical weapons but if people are playing with sun blades and +2 weapons at level 12 then your resource investment doesn't add that much more. If you ran with hexblade as well, you could drop DeX low and pick up medium armour; you would lose access to some of your abilities but get most of those covered by hexblade anyway.

If your DM is open to changes, suggest swapping a monk shadow spell for this. You get level 2 shadow themed spells at level 3 and it is a good thematic fit. If the answer is no, you might be able to get them to accept it as part of a feat instead.

Otherwise I too am with warlock as the better option - primarily because you actually get to cast your signature spell more often with short rest spell slots and get to do it earlier.

Unfortunately I don't think it would be allowed. One of my DM's is a strict no UA content unless it's vetted, and the Mystic is broken as hell in my opinion, and I imagine if they read it they too would agree. The other one...well, I wouldn't want to use the Mystic for the main fact that I think it's a bit broken, but it's a cool concept I hope gets polished later on down the line.

Nah. It isn't overpowered at first reading. DM probably dont even understand how all the bits fit together at first reading! It took me about three reads to really get a sense of how it worked and how powerful it was. Given that a lot of its power is from versatility and flexibility rather than single overpowered abilities it can take a while to see what the package delivers. But yeah, take your point to not want to play it.

[Nikushimi]

Yeah, the main thing is I was looking to make it shadow themed. Something innate and or trained.

Using Shadow Blade as their main offensive weapon. It's not exactly the most damaging spell or weapon, but since it counts as a weapon and has the finesse properties you can add your ability modifier to the damage. Not only that but I had imagined since it could technically be used as a monk weapon it would benefit the monk a little bit with flurry of blows. Add in the teleport through shadows and I feel it would be pretty neat.

Basically, the idea was.

1st round. Summon darkness around you with 2 sorcery points. Summon your Shadow Blade. You can now see through this darkness, but others can't.
2nd round. Teleport to the shadow or a nearby shadow to an enemy. Attack. Bonus action flurry of blows.

However. I just realized something important that my brain did not register in its exhausted state that it is in.

These don't synergize as well as I thought for several reasons.

1. Darkness and Shadow Blade are both concentration spells...so...you can't have two concentration spells.
2. It's a bonus action to teleport with Shadow Walk and Shadow Step. So...can't bonus action flurry of blows after Shadow Step.

Well, there goes that idea. Lol.

Still, would like to envision and create a character that is able to use shadows and or the Shadow Blade because I find the idea of the spell cool. Maybe I might be able to work with my DM's to generate a Cantrip that might work similarly as the Shadow Blade, but not as strong (since it's a cantrip) but can scale as you grow in levels.

Thanks for all the feedback! As a side note, if anyone can list or suggest some cool shadow themed spells and abilities that haven't already been listed it would be appreciated. Thanks!

[MrStabby]

The darkness and shadowblade both being concentration isn't the end of the world.

You probably wouldn't have enough spell slots to use it all the time anyway so only using it in dim conditions is only a bit of a drawback. Even if you did, using up one of your actions to cast darkness isn't always going to be your best step.

Also, the shadowblade is t the best with monk abilities that only work with unarmed strike...

Other options... drow bladesinger. You get your multiple attacks, shadowblade, spells like misty step to mimic shadowstep, less MAD so can take feats like mobile and if you are in bright light you will be casting spells that need a save anyway.

[Arkhios]

I'm going to propose something relatively controversial here:

Looking at both classes, Monk (Way of Shadows) doesn't REALLY need or use Wisdom for anything other than for unarmored defense, saving throws, and skills.
Edit: Stunning Strike is a good enough reason for having lower intelligence in order to get slightly higher wisdom.

Likewise, Sorcerer doesn't REALLY need or use Charisma for anything other than spells that require an attack roll or Save, saving throws, and skills.

The amount of spell slots, spells known, sorcery points are indifferent towards your Charisma modifier.

Both classes, especially in this combination, need a high dexterity, and some constitution, but other than that, it's up to you.

Note that as a Sorcerer, you can cast Mage Armor (8 hours duration, no concentration required), which makes your AC 13 + DEX, equivalent to a +1 studded leather armor.

A Shadow Sorcerer needs a high Charisma Score more than a Shadow Monk needs a high Wisdom, so in this combination, high Charisma ≥ Wisdom.

Thus, unlike others have said, you would only need Dexterity, Charisma, and Wisdom, priority in that order, with potentially leaving Wisdom at the minimum in order to multiclass.
Edit: Stunning Strike is a good enough reason for having lower intelligence in order to get slightly higher wisdom.

With point-buy, you could have the following row:
STR 8, DEX 15, CON 12, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 14.
As variant Human, you could bump Dexterity by 1, and Constitution by 1. Starting as a Monk, you could take Resilient (con) for another bump to Constitution bringing your stats to:
STR 8, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 14, CHA 14.
Your AC starts at 15, which is equal to having a studded leather, which is quite standard at low levels for someone not using heavy armor and/or shield. Later, when you get Mage Armor, you get AC 16 (equal to a chain mail or +1 studded leather armor), and you won't have to worry about increasing Wisdom at all. You'll have decent hit points and two good saves (dex and con).

[Garokson]

1. Can shadowblade be considered a monk weapon? It technically follows the demands of a Monk weapon. A shortsword (which the blade could manifest as) or a simple weapon, and the spell says it is a simple weapon that you are proficient in, so it could technically be a monk weapon, yes? People talk about using Kensai, but why? Seems it can be used right away as a monk weapon if you had the spell.

No it isn't considererd a monk weapon since it isn't a short sword but just a 'simple weapon'. With the UA alternate class features you should be able to make it one though.

Kensei doesn't have that problem because his feature just states that you can make any simple or martial weapon a kensei weapon.

2. Can you do this earlier in levels? Is it possible?

With shadow blade? No there isn't anything earlier than monk 6 - warlock/sorcerer 3

3. Will this even work as a concept and is their an easier way to do such a build?

Most builds with that theme I have seen go for either a three level shadow sorcerer dip or a 2-3 level warlock dip depending.
To tone down the MADness it's also recommended to start as a Standard Human since that one is the only race that allows you to start with decent stats.

E.g.:

• Str: 8+1
• Dex: 15+1
• Con: 13+1
• Int: 8+1
• Wis: 15+1
• Cha: 12+1

[Arkhios]

No it isn't considererd a monk weapon since it isn't a short sword but just a 'simple weapon'. With the UA alternate class features you should be able to make it one though.

Actually, I think you're wrong about Shadowblade. That it's said to be a simple weapon is definitely enough to make it count as a monk weapon, per RAW.

Surely all other monk weapons aren't also short swords?

[Garokson]

Actually, I think you're wrong about Shadowblade. That it's said to be a simple weapon is definitely enough to make it count as a monk weapon, per RAW.

Surely all other monk weapons aren't also short swords?

Yeah, I think you're right. That's just such a weird fringe case. Not on the list of simple weapons but still counts as one.

[Arkhios]

Yeah, I think you're right. That's just such a weird fringe case. Not on the list of simple weapons but still counts as one.

It's not weird at all, to be honest. Just because there's a list/table of weapons in the Player's Handbook, it doesn't mean those are the only weapons in the whole game.

What matters the most is the weapon categories. If a spell or some other rule adds a weapon and specifies a category for it, they are just as valid as weapons of said category, even though they don't appear on the table.

Likewise, for example, Valenar Double Scimitar is a two-handed martial weapon with its own specific features, even though it's only described within text in the Eberron: Rising from the Last War, without any mention in Player's Handbook.

It's basically just another case of "specific rule trumps general rule".

[RogueJK]

I'm going to propose something relatively controversial here:

Looking at both classes, Monk (Way of Shadows) doesn't REALLY need or use Wisdom for anything other than for unarmored defense, saving throws, and skills.

Without a decent WIS, a Shadow Monk cannot effectively utilize Stunning Strike, which is one of the Monk's prime abilities. The DC for the Stun is based on WIS.

[Arkhios]

Without a decent WIS, a Shadow Monk cannot effectively utilize Stunning Strike, which is one of the Monk's prime abilities. The DC for the Stun is based on WIS.

That's one thing I did overlook, indeed. But what is and isn't decent score is another question.

If you're able to get 16 in all three: Dex, Wis, and Cha, you'll be just fine.

[Quietus]

I actually quite like the idea of the Warlock (any patron)/Way of Shadow Monk multiclass, focusing entirely on Dexterity as a primary stat, with Wisdom not being super important. I would be concerned about advancement through the lower levels, you'll end up behind the curve at level 5 and not really catch up until 8, depending on how you level up. It would almost be tempting to take one class to 5 and then multiclass at 6, though the decision on which to go with would not be easy.

Warlock 3 : Shadow blade, two spell slots per short rest, two invocations. I would take Mage Armor and Devil's Sight.
Warlock 5 : Shadow blade upgrades to 3d8 damage, extra invocation.

Monk 3 : Shadow Arts. Plenty of useful options, 2 Ki to cast sneaky shadow spells. This is a pretty hefty cost at this level, but being able to cast Darkness and use Devil's Sight (can be gained at Warlock 2) to see through it is nifty.
Monk 5 : Extra Attack and Stunning Strike. Both great abilities, though Stunning Strike's usefulness is limited if you aren't raising Wisdom much. Also, your unarmed strikes are 1d6 now.

Mechanically, I would go with one of these options :

• Monk to start, possibly going to level 6 to pick up the bonus action teleport, then multiclass Warlock.
• Warlock to start, choose Pact of the Blade, leveling to 5 for the 3d8 shadow blades and the Extra Attack invocation. Then multiclass Monk, and after we get Monk 5, dip one more level of Warlock for the subclass ability and to trade out the Extra Attack invocation
• Start with Warlock 3, then Monk up to 6, before coming back to Warlock for level 5's damage bump and invocation. You can do Monk 1/Warlock 3/Monk+ if you prefer the Monk starting proficiencies. This is definitely going to struggle a little more in around level 5, but picks up neat utility tricks at 6 (Monk's Shadow Arts), and catches up at 8 when Extra Attack comes online. This setup gets early Mage Armor and Devil's Sight, and has the freedom to take whatever pact you'd like. I would suggest Tome or Chain, since Pact of the Blade doesn't do much for this build, and is only useful for the Warlock-first option above.

Narratively, I would just fluff the warlock patron as either a "chosen one" situation with someone looking over your character and giving them power, or just totally reflavor it as an inborn power, the same way that Sorcerers would work. Born under the right sign, or just something inherent to who the character is.

[RogueJK]

That's one thing I did overlook, indeed. But what is and isn't decent score is another question.

If you're able to get 16 in all three: Dex, Wis, and Cha, you'll be just fine.

Which would require rolling well for stats.

It's not doable with standard array, and the only way to do it with Point Buy is by choosing a Half Elf and having an 8 STR, 8 INT, and a 10 CON. 10 CON is troublesome for a melee character, especially since your hit die will be a mixture of the Monk's d8 and Sorcerer's d6. Plus the fact that even with the help of the Sorcerer's CON save proficiency, you'll have more trouble with Concentration checks with only a 10 CON, the build's two primary spells (Darkness and Shadow Blade) are both Concentration spells, and you're a melee character who will be getting hit regularly.

[Nikushimi]

Thanks for all the input.

The thing about most of the build ideas though is that I want it to make sense narratively. The character itself was born to shadows.

Now, this could simply be that they were born or raised in a shadow monk society, and then at later levels they inducted them into the inner workings, thus making them a warlock, but my thought was that they were born with shadow powers already, and then were trained to use them effectively.

But, I can see how these ideas could work.

Also, to the "You WILL be getting hit" that's what the Darkness was supposed to be for. It would impose disadvantage on anyone attack them in melee since my character would be in this Darkness, since they could see in it. So, this minimizes risk, but yes. It is inevitable to be hit in melee with such a character that uses the Shadow Blade Spell.

The main problem I saw after looking over is that both Darkness and Shadow Blade are concentration, so they can't be used in tandem. This broke my concept and had to get me to rethink everything.

So I appreciate the ideas, and I am currently having a brainstorm session in my own head as to what I want. Cause that Shadow Hound sounds and looks cool, and I'm more about theme and the rule of cool than I am about maximizing everything. As long as the concept comes through properly, that's what matters to me. Doing the most damage, while nice, isn't necessary.

Please, if anyone has any other ideas I'd appreciate to hear them, but it seems for now until I can talk and work with my DM that this character build idea may be just that. An Idea. Something that may not be able to be realized within the confines of what is RAW. Some tweaks would have to be made to accommodate such a character it seems. Much like my other thread about a Sword and Hand Crossbow wielder. Lol.

So please, keep the insight coming! It helps me brainstorm and think and I appreciate it!

EDIT: Also, yeah. The Shadow Blade SHOULD be able to be used as a Monk weapon since the only stipulation to being a Monk weapon is that it can't be heavy or have the two handed property. It also has to be a simple weapon. Something that the Shadow Blade is as the spell says "It counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. It deals 2d8 psychic damage on a hit and has the finesse, light, and thrown properties (range 20/60)" So...should be able to be a monk weapon without going Kensai.

[Arkhios]

Which would require rolling well for stats.

It's not doable with standard array, and the only way to do it with Point Buy is by choosing a Half Elf and having an 8 STR, 8 INT, and a 10 CON. 10 CON is troublesome for a melee character, especially since your hit die will be a mixture of the Monk's d8 and Sorcerer's d6. Plus the fact that even with the help of the Sorcerer's CON save proficiency, you'll have more trouble with Concentration checks with only a 10 CON, the build's two primary spells (Darkness and Shadow Blade) are both Concentration spells, and you're a melee character who will be getting hit regularly.

If you start with Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 14, and the character is supposed to be Monk 6/Sorcerer 6, you'll have two Ability Score improvements that you can put into Wisdom and Charisma, ending with Str 8, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 16. You don't absolutely need these scores at the 1st character level, though.

Besides, compared to Monk 12, you lose only 6 max hit points as a Monk 6/Sorcerer 6 if using the average gain/level. (d8 = 5hp/lvl, d6 = 4hp/lvl). Big-effing-deal. Sorcerer also has access to the Shield spell to significantly reduce the chance being hit, and the most damaging spells require either Dex or Con save. With my above suggestion (see the controversial post), you're proficient with both.

Throw away your previous-edition-fantasies for 20+ in each stat by level 20. 5e has been intentionally pruned down in regards to this. In fact, a 20 in an ability score is the normal maximum at any rate, and 16 provides a bonus that is only two points lower. With bounded accuracy, it's not that big loss.

Should you get to 20th character level, you'll get Dex 20, easily, and potentially 18 in either wis or cha, or 16 in con. You'll do just fine, even without half-elf.

What do you need strength and intelligence for anyway?

[HPisBS]

... The main problem I saw after looking over is that both Darkness and Shadow Blade are concentration, so they can't be used in tandem. This broke my concept and had to get me to rethink everything....

The funny thing about this is that I mentioned it way back in my initial recommendation lol

- Devil's Sight invocation lets you see through your ki-based Darkness (though concentration means you have to pick between that and your shadow blade)

(^ now bolded)


So yeah, you'd either need to rely on a natural lack of light for your advantaged Shadow Blade, or rely on someone else to cast Darkness for you. (Maybe via a Ring of Spell Storing, if your dm lets you have a say in what items appear in the game?)

Otherwise, you'd still be able to cast Darkness yourself and become a whirlwind of fists to your effectively blinded enemies. That alone is pretty cool if you ask me. (And a Shadow Monk requires a dip in Warlock or Shadow-Sorc to see through Darkness, so your concept does have significant merit, even if you're limited to concentrating on one spell or the other.)

[Nikushimi]

The funny thing about this is that I mentioned it way back in my initial recommendation lol


(^ now bolded)


So yeah, you'd either need to rely on a natural lack of light for your advantaged Shadow Blade, or rely on someone else to cast Darkness for you. (Maybe via a Ring of Spell Storing, if your dm lets you have a say in what items appear in the game?)

Otherwise, you'd still be able to cast Darkness yourself and become a whirlwind of fists to your effectively blinded enemies. That alone is pretty cool if you ask me. (And a Shadow Monk requires a dip in Warlock or Shadow-Sorc to see through Darkness, so your concept does have significant merit, even if you're limited to concentrating on one spell or the other.)

Okay, but...look, I was not that attentive. I was exhausted. Still am. Apparently, my body is going through a flu or something and I cannot concentrate myself, let alone on the spells. Lol.

But fair enough. I just missed it. Damn my not retaining information I read.

[HPisBS]

Take care you don't get that COVID-19