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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Apr 2017
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    Chesterfield, MO, USA
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    Default Fine tuning my MD Ranger for spells raises a question

    Okay, still debating Ranger 20, or dip for Fighter at 1st or Rogue for 1-3 levels with 1 at first and any other TBD. Gloomstalker or Horizon Walker subclasses.

    Given a dip of 1, 2, or 3 levels raises a question about spells (and admittedly ASI at 19) at higher levels.

    So the unchanging start would be ST 16 (14+2), DE 14, Co 14 (12+2), IN 10, WI 14, Ch 8 for any of these options.

    Thanks to reading LOTR so much in the 1960s I envision this as Gimli the Ranger. With spells.

    Looking at possibly all ASIs build gives

    +2 WI (16) at 4
    +2 ST (18) at 8
    +2 WI (18) at 12
    +2 WI (20) at 16
    +2 ST (20) at 19

    This forgoes Tough and Alert which tempted me earlier.

    Now to the heart of the matter - losing that 5th level spell at 19 if you MC with the lost ASI if you go Rogue/Fighter 2 or Rogue 3.

    Here was my spell selection plans (XGtE) for 19 levels of Ranger:

    Level
    2 - absorb elements and Zeohyer Strike
    3 - Longstrider
    5 - Jump; Pass without Trace
    7 - Lesser Restoration
    9 - Conjure Barrage (using Hand Axes). Edit to list correct spell
    11 - Water Breathing
    13 - Freedom of Movement
    15 - Conjure Woodland Being
    17 - Steel Wind Strike
    19 - actually underwhelmed at this point, maybe Wrath of Nature???

    So cast Steel Wind Strike twice? Dip more than one level of Fighter or Rogue?

    Is that last 5th level spell slot all that important?

    Your thoughts about the last question, please. I will probably read but not give weight to changing the starting build because... that is what I want. Spells are selected for utility and role play in my main group as much as combat optimization, so do not get your hopes up on getting them over optimized. I leave that to the combat crazed players, looking at you Colin and Derrick.

    For the completionists out there, Bonus spells and abilities:

    Gloomstalker gets Disguise Self, Rope trick, Fear, Greater Invisibility, and... Seeming.
    Umbrella Sight, Dread Ambusher, Iron Mind, Stalkerís Flurry, and Shadowy Dodge.

    Horizon Walker gets Protection from Evil and Good, Misty Step, Haste, Banishment, and... Teleportation Circle.
    Detect Portal, Planar Warrior, Ethereal Step, Distant Strike, and Spectral Defense.
    Last edited by ZorroGames; 2020-01-19 at 07:41 PM.
    With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.

    I am the eternal Iconoclast.

    Mountain Dwarfs Rock!

    American King James Version
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

    Otto von Bismarck Quotes. There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America... When you want to fool the world, tell the truth.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2017

    Default Re: Fine tuning my MD Ranger for spells raises a question

    Just curious, you spend 3 ASIs boosting wisdom when all it seems to give you is +3 initiative on the Gloomstalker side and maybe one or two spells with a better DC.

    Conjure volley looks like one of the few that uses a DC and it is a 5th level spell which you can't get until level 17 and is just a slightly upgraded fireball which might not even do magical damage unless you use magical ammunition to fuel it. (I am not sure why you list it at level 9).

    Personally, I'd spend most of those wisdom ASIs on something else.

    I'm not sure I would put that great a value on a couple of 5th level spells. Primary spell casters will ostly have that covered I would think by the time you hit 20.

    However, how you rank the spells has more to do with what your goals are for the character and how you see them playing out. You are building a melee mountain dwarf ranger based on strength. Have you considered PAM for the extra attack and reach if you go two handed? If you take the Alert feat the wisdom increases are even less useful.

    2 levels of fighter is good for action surge 1/SR.
    2 levels of rogue are great for expertise, an extra skill, cunning action and an extra d6 from sneak attack.

    If you aren't maxing out wisdom then either of these is probably worth a feat though I like the utility of the rogue dip a bit better personally. A third level of rogue gives you another d6 sneak and other archetype abilities. Personally, I don't see much in the high ranger levels that is all that attractive. You could mix in 7 levels of other classes and still have 4th level ranger spells for example.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    Chesterfield, MO, USA
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    Default Re: Fine tuning my MD Ranger for spells raises a question

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravath View Post
    Just curious, you spend 3 ASIs boosting wisdom when all it seems to give you is +3 initiative on the Gloomstalker side and maybe one or two spells with a better DC.

    Conjure volley looks like one of the few that uses a DC and it is a 5th level spell which you can't get until level 17 and is just a slightly upgraded fireball which might not even do magical damage unless you use magical ammunition to fuel it. (I am not sure why you list it at level 9).

    Personally, I'd spend most of those wisdom ASIs on something else.

    I'm not sure I would put that great a value on a couple of 5th level spells. Primary spell casters will ostly have that covered I would think by the time you hit 20.

    However, how you rank the spells has more to do with what your goals are for the character and how you see them playing out. You are building a melee mountain dwarf ranger based on strength. Have you considered PAM for the extra attack and reach if you go two handed? If you take the Alert feat the wisdom increases are even less useful.

    2 levels of fighter is good for action surge 1/SR.
    2 levels of rogue are great for expertise, an extra skill, cunning action and an extra d6 from sneak attack.

    If you aren't maxing out wisdom then either of these is probably worth a feat though I like the utility of the rogue dip a bit better personally. A third level of rogue gives you another d6 sneak and other archetype abilities. Personally, I don't see much in the high ranger levels that is all that attractive. You could mix in 7 levels of other classes and still have 4th level ranger spells for example.
    The level is the level when you get it, not the level of the spell itself. Sorry, I see where the confusion might come. It also should be conjure BARRAGE. Small mental slip but big difference. Good catch.
    With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.

    I am the eternal Iconoclast.

    Mountain Dwarfs Rock!

    American King James Version
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

    Otto von Bismarck Quotes. There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America... When you want to fool the world, tell the truth.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DwarfFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Chesterfield, MO, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Fine tuning my MD Ranger for spells raises a question

    Just like I use a template for MD, I also use a template for Rangers. After viewing Treantmonkís 1-20 Beast Master YouTube video I agree you raise a good point. Most Ranger spells are not dependent on Wisdom modifiers. Making a list of Ranger spells (and checking it twice...) to see what spells a Strength based MD Ranger might actually want that are WI dependent. So far, not many but I have only finished listing first and second level spells so far. More work to be done to answer that question.
    With one exception, I play AL games only nowdays.

    I am the eternal Iconoclast.

    Mountain Dwarfs Rock!

    American King James Version
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.

    Otto von Bismarck Quotes. There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America... When you want to fool the world, tell the truth.

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